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View Full Version : Feelings on the possibility of a draft



TerryTate
06-25-2004, 04:19 AM
I love each and every american that voluntarily served their country. Some members of our military may not necessarily believe in what they are doing, but they are fulfilling something they committed to do, and they are doing something I do not want to do.

And the fact that legislation sits on a table somewhere collecting dust until after this upcoming election scares the hell out of me. I could never put at least two years of my life into doing something I am not comfortable doing, which may include the possible task of killing someone AND facing the realization that I could have my life cut short.

Unlike the draft during the Conflict in Vietnam, I would not be protected by being in college. And I've read various articles about this. They would start the draft at age 20 and move their way up to as high as 24, 18 and 19 year olds would only be drafted as a last resort. Canada and the United States have an agreement for US citizens dodging the draft to be sent back. Anyways, Since I turn 20 on July 11th, I would likely be the first to be picked if the draft is resumed in 2005. I would be required to serve two years, however at the discretion of the president I may be forced to serve longer.

I would probably attempt to be in Civil Service if i was in a bind...or the national guard, but never would I ever think about going to Afghanistan, Iraq, or any other country that we may be involved with down the road. Even if I fully-backed the Iraq War (at this time I don't), I would not want to join the military.

S.89 is the bill....

themole
06-25-2004, 07:32 AM
I love each and every american that voluntarily served their country. Some members of our military may not necessarily believe in what they are doing, but they are fulfilling something they committed to do, and they are doing something I do not want to do.

And the fact that legislation sits on a table somewhere collecting dust until after this upcoming election scares the hell out of me. I could never put at least two years of my life into doing something I am not comfortable doing, which may include the possible task of killing someone AND facing the realization that I could have my life cut short.

Unlike the draft during the Conflict in Vietnam, I would not be protected by being in college. And I've read various articles about this. They would start the draft at age 20 and move their way up to as high as 24, 18 and 19 year olds would only be drafted as a last resort. Canada and the United States have an agreement for US citizens dodging the draft to be sent back. Anyways, Since I turn 20 on July 11th, I would likely be the first to be picked if the draft is resumed in 2005. I would be required to serve two years, however at the discretion of the president I may be forced to serve longer.

I would probably attempt to be in Civil Service if i was in a bind...or the national guard, but never would I ever think about going to Afghanistan, Iraq, or any other country that we may be involved with down the road. Even if I fully-backed the Iraq War (at this time I don't), I would not want to join the military.

S.89 is the bill....


You can thank Charles Rangle, of NY for that Bill. As long as the Republicans still have control of both houses you need not worry. They are pretty happy with the all volunteer military.

If the CIA and other Special OPS. groups were allowed to do the skullduggery they were created for this most likley wouldn't be an issue.

We are at war with a rogue religion, unless the people of the Islamic faith decide to assist in helping us identify them we are in for a long haul.

Prepare yourself to serve TT, or don't vote democratic and warn your friends.

iceblizzard69
06-25-2004, 10:08 AM
I hope there isn't a draft. We had a thread about this a while back. Having a draft would be a horrible idea. The military is meeting it's recruitment goals and I don't think people should have to serve in the military if they don't want to.

As for Charles Rangel, sadly, he is my congressman. The people in my area are a bunch of morons and blindly vote for him because he is a Democrat. He consistently gets 90% of the vote during elections.

However, I don't think having a Republican controlled congress will prevent a draft. This isn't a case where most Democrats are for a draft and most Republicans are against it. Rangel brought up the idea of a draft because he thinks that people would think differently about the war if they or their children had to serve. Personally, I think it is a horrible idea, and sadly, the only way he will leave Congress is if he wants to beause if he wants to stay, he will get elected. Congressman don't campaign where I live and they are voted on strictly by their party alliance, and since I live in an area where Democrats outnumber Republicans by a 5 to 1 margin, the Democrat will always win. It sucks that people are voting for someone simply based on their party. I'm not a Republican but if I could vote I would definitely not vote for Charles Rangel.

PhinPhan1227
06-25-2004, 11:21 AM
It's a Democrat scare tactic. And I wouldn't have a problem with that except for those individuals(like the person who wrote the editorial at Congress.com) who try to make it look like a Republican initiative. The Draft isn't an issue...it just wouldn't do anything to solve the manpower problems we have. We are short of highly trained specialists...kids who are brought in for 2 years aren't going to be very useful if their training takes 2-3 years to complete.

Clumpy
06-26-2004, 12:04 AM
Maybe the solution was not to go to war in Iraq :shakeno:

PhinPhan1227
06-26-2004, 01:05 AM
Maybe the solution was not to go to war in Iraq :shakeno:


Riiiight...because just launching cruise missiles worked so well the FIRST time the World Trade Center was attacked.

iceblizzard69
06-26-2004, 09:27 AM
Riiiight...because just launching cruise missiles worked so well the FIRST time the World Trade Center was attacked.

That's why we attacked Afghanistan. That has nothing to do with Iraq. I think Saddam was a horrible person, but I don't think he had any connection with al Qaeda.

PhinPhan1227
06-26-2004, 11:42 AM
That's why we attacked Afghanistan. That has nothing to do with Iraq. I think Saddam was a horrible person, but I don't think he had any connection with al Qaeda.


It's not about just Al-Quida. Ask yourself this...if every member of Al-Quida dropped dead tomorrow, would that put an end to terrorism? Al Quida is just a name. They're a loosley knit group, so while taking out their base in Afghanistan slowed them down, it wouldn't have put an end to them or terrorism. The only way to do that is to cure the disease, not just treat a symptom. And Iraq is an attempt to cure that disease. Bring about a stable and prosperous Iraq, and you have a chance to spread that prosperity to the region. Do nothing and you'll have another 9/11 every decade at least.

ohall
06-26-2004, 05:18 PM
That's why we attacked Afghanistan. That has nothing to do with Iraq. I think Saddam was a horrible person, but I don't think he had any connection with al Qaeda.

You'd really have to ignore a lot of things to think they did not have ties with each other. When officials from the former Iraqi government were talking and meeting with UBL ppl what did you think they were talking about, interior home design tips?

Please remember Saddam flew his Mig 29's into Iran during the 1st Iraq war even though he knew he'd never see those planes again. Do you know why he did that? Because the enemy of his enemy is his friend. He'd rather have another Muslim nation get those planes in case they ever went to war with the US rather than having those planes destroyed by the US Air Force and Navy.

There is a long standing history of how Middle Eastern countries rally with each other to fight a common foe. We are that common foe to them in today’s world.

As each week passes more and more proof is revealed that UBL and Iraq had long standing ties with each other. It is unimportant if those ties had anything to do with 9/11. The only thing that mattered was the world all agreed Saddam had WMD, and the US was not willing to risk that Saddam the madman he would not sell or give away those WMD to a terrorist group(s) to make 9/11 look like a amateur fireworks show.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
06-26-2004, 05:31 PM
It's not about just Al-Quida. Ask yourself this...if every member of Al-Quida dropped dead tomorrow, would that put an end to terrorism? Al Quida is just a name. They're a loosley knit group, so while taking out their base in Afghanistan slowed them down, it wouldn't have put an end to them or terrorism. The only way to do that is to cure the disease, not just treat a symptom. And Iraq is an attempt to cure that disease. Bring about a stable and prosperous Iraq, and you have a chance to spread that prosperity to the region. Do nothing and you'll have another 9/11 every decade at least.

I'm not saying that Saddam didn't have ties to terrorism because he did. What I am saying is that the connection between Saddam and bin Laden probably didn't exist and that 9/11 is a horrible reason for going to war against Iraq.

The Democracy in the Middle East reason for going in isn't a bad one, and the "Saddam was a horrible leader who killed many innocent people and didn't let his people be free" is also a good reason for going to war. However, 9/11 is not a good reason for going into Iraq.

iceblizzard69
06-26-2004, 05:38 PM
You'd really have to ignore a lot of things to think they did not have ties with each other. When officials from the former Iraqi government were talking and meeting with UBL ppl what did you think they were talking about, interior home design tips?

Please remember Saddam flew his Mig 29's into Iran during the 1st Iraq war even though he knew he'd never see those planes again. Do you know why he did that? Because the enemy of his enemy is his friend. He'd rather have another Muslim nation get those planes in case they ever went to war with the US rather than having those planes destroyed by the US Air Force and Navy.

There is a long standing history of how Middle Eastern countries rally with each other to fight a common foe. We are that common foe to them in today’s world.

As each week passes more and more proof is revealed that UBL and Iraq had long standing ties with each other. It is unimportant if those ties had anything to do with 9/11. The only thing that mattered was the world all agreed Saddam had WMD, and the US was not willing to risk that Saddam the madman he would not sell or give away those WMD to a terrorist group(s) to make 9/11 look like a amateur fireworks show.

Oliver...

The Middle East is not one country. There are different religions in the Middle East (there are multiple versions of Islam and not every Middle Eastern nation is dominated by the same version) and different forms of government. Not every Middle Eastern country agrees with each other and two that disagree aren't always going to fight together against a common enemy. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc. are Middle Eastern but they didn't take Iraq's side in this war.

PhinPhan1227
06-26-2004, 06:13 PM
I'm not saying that Saddam didn't have ties to terrorism because he did. What I am saying is that the connection between Saddam and bin Laden probably didn't exist and that 9/11 is a horrible reason for going to war against Iraq.

The Democracy in the Middle East reason for going in isn't a bad one, and the "Saddam was a horrible leader who killed many innocent people and didn't let his people be free" is also a good reason for going to war. However, 9/11 is not a good reason for going into Iraq.

Revenge for 9/11 would not in any way shape or form be a reason to go into Iraq. Preventing the next 9/11 would not be a reason for going into Iraq. Preventing the 4th or 5th 9/11 is the reason for going into Iraq.

ohall
06-26-2004, 06:19 PM
The Middle East is not one country. There are different religions in the Middle East (there are multiple versions of Islam and not every Middle Eastern nation is dominated by the same version) and different forms of government. Not every Middle Eastern country agrees with each other and two that disagree aren't always going to fight together against a common enemy. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc. are Middle Eastern but they didn't take Iraq's side in this war.

So explain to me why did Saddam order his planes to be flown into Iran during the 1st Iraq war? Please I can't wait to hear why you think TWO countries that were at war for 7-years would come together so quickly.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
06-26-2004, 11:46 PM
So explain to me why did Saddam order his planes to be flown into Iran during the 1st Iraq war? Please I can't wait to hear why you think TWO countries that were at war for 7-years would come together so quickly.

Oliver...

That is one case. There are many other cases of Middle Eastern nations not fighting together against a common enemy. We are not the enemy of all Middle Eastern nations, quite a few were behind us in the war on Iraq, including one that has horrible human rights records and many laws that would be frowned upon if they were law here.

ohall
06-27-2004, 12:47 AM
That is one case. There are many other cases of Middle Eastern nations not fighting together against a common enemy. We are not the enemy of all Middle Eastern nations, quite a few were behind us in the war on Iraq, including one that has horrible human rights records and many laws that would be frowned upon if they were law here.

Which country would that be? Let me guess you will type Israel?

Oliver...

Clumpy
06-27-2004, 01:40 AM
All you George Bush lovers and neo-conservative apologists need to run down to your local recruiting station and enlist.

ohall
06-27-2004, 02:18 AM
All you George Bush lovers and neo-conservative apologists need to run down to your local recruiting station and enlist.

Weak!

With your logic only ppl who serve or have served in the military would end setting policy for the military and in turn run this counrty.

Oliver...

Clumpy
06-27-2004, 02:47 AM
Weak!

With your logic only ppl who serve or have served in the military would end setting policy for the military and in turn run this counrty.

Oliver...

When did Dick Cheney serve in the military? :confused:

That's :rofl:

I served 14 yrs in the military but I'm disenfranchised by those on the right because I'm "left-leaning" in my ideology. My service to my country is inconsequential to those who support the "Bushies" and Neo-Conservatives, many of whom, avoided military service but utilize said military to advance their agenda (re: Dick Cheney)

The whole basis to the war in Iraq was "imminent threat" posed by Saddam's "slam dunk" (words of former CIA director George Tenet) stash of WMD's and direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

No WMDs have been found

No direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda [sic] Osama bin Laden

No "imminent threat"

What we should have done:

1) Increased assets in the Afghanistan/Pakistan region to root out Al Qaeda/Taliban and find OSL (most of our Special Forces assets were diverted to Iraq primarily to find evidence to justify the war)

2) Forgone the tax cut given to those in the higher income brackets and used that money to increase levels of the active duty troops and increase training opportunities for Reserve/National Guard.

3) Continued WMD inspections within Iraq and if Saddam refused, start taking out his many residences one by one

4) Continued efforts to "internationalize" the potential conflict within Iraq as well as the "War on Terrorism"

If the "Bushies" had followed 1-4, it would have been a "slam dunk" re-election :shakeno:

ohall
06-27-2004, 02:58 AM
When did Dick Cheney serve in the military? :confused:

That's :rofl:

I served 14 yrs in the military but I'm disenfranchised by those on the right because I'm "left-leaning" in my ideology. My service to my country is inconsequential to those who support the "Bushies" and Neo-Conservatives, many of whom, avoided military service but utilize said military to advance their agenda (re: Dick Cheney)

The whole basis to the war in Iraq was "imminent threat" posed by Saddam's "slam dunk" (words of former CIA director George Tenet) stash of WMD's and direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

No WMDs have been found

No direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda [sic] Osama bin Laden

No "imminent threat"

What we should have done:

1) Increased assets in the Afghanistan/Pakistan region to root out Al Qaeda/Taliban and find OSL (most of our Special Forces assets were diverted to Iraq primarily to find evidence to justify the war)

2) Forgone the tax cut given to those in the higher income brackets and used that money to increase levels of the active duty troops and increase training opportunities for Reserve/National Guard.

3) Continued WMD inspections within Iraq and if Saddam refused, start taking out his many residences one by one

4) Continued efforts to "internationalize" the potential conflict within Iraq as well as the "War on Terrorism"

If the "Bushies" had followed 1-4, it would have been a "slam dunk" re-election :shakeno:

What does any of this have to do with my reply to you?

Oliver...

P4E
06-27-2004, 03:06 AM
When did Dick Cheney serve in the military? :confused:

That's :rofl:

I served 14 yrs in the military but I'm disenfranchised by those on the right because I'm "left-leaning" in my ideology. My service to my country is inconsequential to those who support the "Bushies" and Neo-Conservatives, many of whom, avoided military service but utilize said military to advance their agenda (re: Dick Cheney)

The whole basis to the war in Iraq was "imminent threat" posed by Saddam's "slam dunk" (words of former CIA director George Tenet) stash of WMD's and direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

No WMDs have been found

No direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda [sic] Osama bin Laden

No "imminent threat"

What we should have done:

1) Increased assets in the Afghanistan/Pakistan region to root out Al Qaeda/Taliban and find OSL (most of our Special Forces assets were diverted to Iraq primarily to find evidence to justify the war)

2) Forgone the tax cut given to those in the higher income brackets and used that money to increase levels of the active duty troops and increase training opportunities for Reserve/National Guard.

3) Continued WMD inspections within Iraq and if Saddam refused, start taking out his many residences one by one

4) Continued efforts to "internationalize" the potential conflict within Iraq as well as the "War on Terrorism"

If the "Bushies" had followed 1-4, it would have been a "slam dunk" re-election :shakeno:
The core anti-terrorism and foreign policy elements of each and every one of your items 1 thru 4 were options available to your beloved former President Bill over the course of two terms of office. Help us understand why the Dems in the White House failed to act effectively on all four counts.

iceblizzard69
06-27-2004, 09:43 AM
Which country would that be? Let me guess you will type Israel?

Oliver...

Saudi Arabia

Sometimes uniting with a nation with totally different beliefs is necessary to defeat a common enemy, so I'm not saying it is always wrong to do so. However, don't make it look like it is a Middle Eastern thing. Not all Middle Eastern nations do it, a lot don't, and many nations all over the world, including the one I live in, have a history of doing it too. We are at war with one country right now who we supported against a common enemy 15 years ago.

ohall
06-27-2004, 07:13 PM
Saudi Arabia

Sometimes uniting with a nation with totally different beliefs is necessary to defeat a common enemy, so I'm not saying it is always wrong to do so. However, don't make it look like it is a Middle Eastern thing. Not all Middle Eastern nations do it, a lot don't, and many nations all over the world, including the one I live in, have a history of doing it too. We are at war with one country right now who we supported against a common enemy 15 years ago.

Truth be told, Saudi Arabia is the root of this specific problem right now. I agree with you 100%, and as a nation every politician out there tolerates the truth about Saudi Arabia. Really we as the American ppl tolerate this situation with Saudi Arabia.

This is one of the main reasons I'm for using more Domestic oil, and help Russia build up their oil industry so we can bypass Saudi Arabia altogether. I know it's wishful thinking, but we need to move far away from Middle Eastern oil dependency.

And I don't think Saudi Arabia supported our actions in Iraq. I believe they abstained from the vote in the UN. I could be wrong though.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
06-27-2004, 08:40 PM
All you George Bush lovers and neo-conservative apologists need to run down to your local recruiting station and enlist.


Um...I'm a person who is scared to death of John Kerry. I'm also a person who served for 4 years in the US Army Infantry. What do you suggest I do oh font of wisdom(on cap figures at least :tongue: )?

themole
06-28-2004, 11:06 PM
Um...I'm a person who is scared to death of John Kerry. I'm also a person who served for 4 years in the US Army Infantry. What do you suggest I do oh font of wisdom(on cap figures at least :tongue: )?


Looks like he would have us re enlist. :lol:

DolFan31
06-28-2004, 11:48 PM
Truth be told, Saudi Arabia is the root of this specific problem right now. I agree with you 100%, and as a nation every politician out there tolerates the truth about Saudi Arabia. Really we as the American ppl tolerate this situation with Saudi Arabia.

This is one of the main reasons I'm for using more Domestic oil, and help Russia build up their oil industry so we can bypass Saudi Arabia altogether. I know it's wishful thinking, but we need to move far away from Middle Eastern oil dependency.

And I don't think Saudi Arabia supported our actions in Iraq. I believe they abstained from the vote in the UN. I could be wrong though.

Oliver...

Lebanon, Sudan, Syria.

Also, the UAE didnt support the War in Iraq, no did Jordan. Turkey wouldnt let us use their bases and airspace for the war. I believe Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are the only Middle Eastern counties "supporting" us while not really supporting us. Qatar is so small I dont even think they have an army. Saudi Arabia, well, we already talked about them. Kuwait owes us big time.

Section126
06-29-2004, 12:02 AM
Looks like he would have us re enlist. :lol:

and flogged for not conforming to HIS ideology.

Clump should go back to making predictions like: "The Dolphins won't be able to sign any Free Agents of consequence....they are in Cap Jail." (paraphrase)

Clumpy
06-29-2004, 12:50 AM
Um...I'm a person who is scared to death of John Kerry. I'm also a person who served for 4 years in the US Army Infantry. What do you suggest I do oh font of wisdom(on cap figures at least :tongue: )?


I was an infantry medic :eek:

paul13
06-29-2004, 01:24 AM
All you George Bush lovers and neo-conservative apologists need to run down to your local recruiting station and enlist.Are you implying you love your country more because you served and the rest of us should just willingly follow under veterans and have no opinions.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:17 AM
I was an infantry medic :eek:


Lol...I got my combat medic certification, but all that really gave me was the ability to pump an IV into someones neck and give them a water head :D My actual MOS was 11H heavy anti-armor. TOW's ROCK!!!

Clumpy
06-29-2004, 02:50 AM
Lol...I got my combat medic certification, but all that really gave me was the ability to pump an IV into someones neck and give them a water head :D My actual MOS was 11H heavy anti-armor. TOW's ROCK!!!

91B :D

I did 3 yrs with 1/61 (later re-designated 5/6) INF(Mech), 5th ID at Ft. Polk, LA. My first year was with the aid station, then I did a year as "Doc" with an infantry company, and my last year back in the aid station as med supply/deuce driver/medic.

My first time out as plt medic with D Co., they initiated me by "killing" the machine gunner and telling me to pick up the 60 and run up the hill so I could be "killed" when they "failed to provide covering fire" :mad: I knew they did it on purpose and got my revenge when I dropped the 60 in the mud :lol: They didn't mess with me anymore after that :up: and I always got 1st shift guard duty cuz I was "doc" and needed my rest :D


IV in the neck? :eek: Maybe if the arms are gone :shakeno:

Clumpy
06-29-2004, 03:03 AM
Are you implying you love your country more because you served and the rest of us should just willingly follow under veterans and have no opinions.

No.....I see/hear so many Bush supporters criticize those who happen to be "left-leaning" on the political spectrum but fail to realize the contributions those on the "left" have made to OUR country (check Congress, 3 times more Democrats have served in the military than Republicans) and how they disparage anyone who doesn't "goose-step" behind the President. Why is it un-patriotic to disagree with the President? Why is it un-American to disagree with the President? It sickens me to hear those on the right demonize the word "liberal" but then whine like bee-otches when people have the audacity to disagree with what the Bush Administration has done.

You can disagree on the validity of the war but still support the efforts of our troops!

ohall
06-29-2004, 05:31 AM
No.....I see/hear so many Bush supporters criticize those who happen to be "left-leaning" on the political spectrum but fail to realize the contributions those on the "left" have made to OUR country (check Congress, 3 times more Democrats have served in the military than Republicans) and how they disparage anyone who doesn't "goose-step" behind the President. Why is it un-patriotic to disagree with the President? Why is it un-American to disagree with the President? It sickens me to hear those on the right demonize the word "liberal" but then whine like bee-otches when people have the audacity to disagree with what the Bush Administration has done.

You can disagree on the validity of the war but still support the efforts of our troops!

When you stop with the subtle Nazi comments directed at Bush #43 maybe what you are trying to sell in this post would go over better.

Oliver...

Clumpy
06-29-2004, 05:51 AM
:foundout:

themole
06-29-2004, 07:13 AM
91B :D

I did 3 yrs with 1/61 (later re-designated 5/6) INF(Mech), 5th ID at Ft. Polk, LA. My first year was with the aid station, then I did a year as "Doc" with an infantry company, and my last year back in the aid station as med supply/deuce driver/medic.

My first time out as plt medic with D Co., they initiated me by "killing" the machine gunner and telling me to pick up the 60 and run up the hill so I could be "killed" when they "failed to provide covering fire" :mad: I knew they did it on purpose and got my revenge when I dropped the 60 in the mud :lol: They didn't mess with me anymore after that :up: and I always got 1st shift guard duty cuz I was "doc" and needed my rest :D


IV in the neck? :eek: Maybe if the arms are gone :shakeno:


If they would have known you were a Bills fan, they would have made you clean it. :lol:

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 10:06 AM
No.....I see/hear so many Bush supporters criticize those who happen to be "left-leaning" on the political spectrum but fail to realize the contributions those on the "left" have made to OUR country (check Congress, 3 times more Democrats have served in the military than Republicans) and how they disparage anyone who doesn't "goose-step" behind the President. Why is it un-patriotic to disagree with the President? Why is it un-American to disagree with the President? It sickens me to hear those on the right demonize the word "liberal" but then whine like bee-otches when people have the audacity to disagree with what the Bush Administration has done.

You can disagree on the validity of the war but still support the efforts of our troops!


Again I'd say that swings both ways. I'm only a marginal Bush supporter who actually agrees with the Left on many issues, but the moment you ask why someone would vote FOR John Kerry you get labeled a NeoCon. Honestly, I'd kill someone for a viable Moderate candidate who would STAY Moderate.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 10:11 AM
91B :D

I did 3 yrs with 1/61 (later re-designated 5/6) INF(Mech), 5th ID at Ft. Polk, LA. My first year was with the aid station, then I did a year as "Doc" with an infantry company, and my last year back in the aid station as med supply/deuce driver/medic.

My first time out as plt medic with D Co., they initiated me by "killing" the machine gunner and telling me to pick up the 60 and run up the hill so I could be "killed" when they "failed to provide covering fire" :mad: I knew they did it on purpose and got my revenge when I dropped the 60 in the mud :lol: They didn't mess with me anymore after that :up: and I always got 1st shift guard duty cuz I was "doc" and needed my rest :D


IV in the neck? :eek: Maybe if the arms are gone :shakeno:

It was a joke the guys running the course would make...that some of the guys getting their Cert were so stupid they'd probably stick the IV in the patients neck and then step on the bag...thus "water head". Hey...was your D Co a heavy weapons Co, or what? Depending on when you served, most D Co were disignated as heavy weapons, or Anti-Armor. That was the Cold War model. About '95 though that changed and the Heavy Anti-Armor Co were broken up. I served in a D Co before were were attached to 10th Mountain as a Heavy weapons platoon in the Light Inf.

Clumpy
06-29-2004, 10:25 AM
It was a joke the guys running the course would make...that some of the guys getting their Cert were so stupid they'd probably stick the IV in the patients neck and then step on the bag...thus "water head". Hey...was your D Co a heavy weapons Co, or what? Depending on when you served, most D Co were disignated as heavy weapons, or Anti-Armor. That was the Cold War model. About '95 though that changed and the Heavy Anti-Armor Co were broken up. I served in a D Co before were were attached to 10th Mountain as a Heavy weapons platoon in the Light Inf.

No........A-D co's were mechanized infantry using M-113s. I left just as they were getting the Bradley's. E Co had the TOW's. HQ Co(HHC) had the mortars & scouts.

I liked serving as medic for the mortars. They were way cool. I had to fill in for a few days when a couple of ours medics got ill with the flu. I was able to fire a few 120mm rounds off :eek:

I also fired a .50 cal maching gun and 1 dragon anti-tank weapon. I blew up an old deuce and a half :up: Medics are not normally allowed near these crew-serve weapons :lol:

All this was so long ago (1987-1990)

I'm an old fart :(

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 10:41 AM
No........A-D co's were mechanized infantry using M-113s. I left just as they were getting the Bradley's. E Co had the TOW's. HQ Co(HHC) had the mortars & scouts.

I liked serving as medic for the mortars. They were way cool. I had to fill in for a few days when a couple of ours medics got ill with the flu. I was able to fire a few 120mm rounds off :eek:

I also fired a .50 cal maching gun and 1 dragon anti-tank weapon. I blew up an old deuce and a half :up: Medics are not normally allowed near these crew-serve weapons :lol:

All this was so long ago (1987-1990)

I'm an old fart :(

Actually you got out only a few years before I went in. The 113's were freaking DEATH TRAPS!! I had to train on them because of the ITV(improved TOW vehicles), but I served on a Hummve and was much happier about it. As much as I liked the TOW however, when we went over to Light Inf, we got the MK19 auto grenade launcher and that thing was my BABY!! There's an incredible feeling when you send 15-20 grenades downrange in 5 seconds and watch a hill disapear in a cloud of smoke. I got to sit in an M1 Abrams during a firing exercise once, and as awsome as that was, the up "close and personal" of the MK19 was the best. As for the Dragon...you can keep it. The TOW is bad enough when you think about combat. There you are firing a missile that sends a cloud of smoke 30 feet into the air screaming HERE I AM SHOOT ME SHOOT ME SHOOT ME. At least with the Hummers we could fire a few and displace. Freaking Dragon gunners have nothing but two feet.

P4E
06-29-2004, 12:07 PM
<<<------- Has vast military experience.;)

I was once a guest of the captain of the surface supply ship U.S.S. Butte for 4 days of exercises in the North Atlantic. We rendevouzed with the battleship Iowa (pre-turret explosion:( ) and I observed underway replenishment operations in which cables are sent across between the two ships and pallets of materiel are transferred as the ships cruise side-by-side. They also let me fire the .50 caliber machine guns at floating targets. Way cool.:D

I ate at the Captain's table in the Ward Room, which entitled me to exposure to the same incredible case of food poisoning suffered by the Captain, the Executive Officer, a host of other senior officers and the ship's chaplain. LOL

(I was invited after I had assisted the Navy on some community relations problems near a base in NJ, -- just some minor conflicts occurring between enlisted men and locals apparently upset that enlistees were consistently stealing all the hottest girls. I was willing to move on from there to solve the problems in the Middle East, but they never asked.;) )

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 12:10 PM
<<<------- Has vast military experience.;)

I was once a guest of the captain of the surface supply ship U.S.S. Butte for 4 days of exercises in the North Atlantic. We rendevouzed with the battleship Iowa (pre-turret explosion:( ) and I observed underway replenishment operations in which cables are sent across between the two ships and pallets of materiel are transferred as the ships cruise side-by-side. They also let me fire the .50 caliber machine guns at floating targets. Way cool.:D

I ate at the Captain's table in the Ward Room, which entitled me to exposure to the same incredible case of food poisoning suffered by the Captain, the Executive Officer, a host of other senior officers and the ship's chaplain. LOL

(I was invited after I had assisted the Navy on some community relations problems near a base in NJ, -- just some minor conflicts occurring between enlisted men and locals apparently upset that enlistees were consistently stealing all the hottest girls. I was willing to move on from there to solve the problems in the Middle East, but they never asked.;) )

Lol...before complaining about Navy food...spend a week eating nothing but MRE's. They aren't bad as an occasional thing...but after a week your digestive system is just FOUL. There's a reason why soldiers never put the windows up on the Hummers when they are out in the field :lol:

themole
06-29-2004, 12:40 PM
Lol...before complaining about Navy food...spend a week eating nothing but MRE's. They aren't bad as an occasional thing...but after a week your digestive system is just FOUL. There's a reason why soldiers never put the windows up on the Hummers when they are out in the field :lol:


Think that's bad! They were called C & K rations when I was in service. No pouches.. to tear open..just a nifty little p-38 can opener that I still have to day.

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 12:44 PM
You can thank Charles Rangle, of NY for that Bill. As long as the Republicans still have control of both houses you need not worry. They are pretty happy with the all volunteer military.

If the CIA and other Special OPS. groups were allowed to do the skullduggery they were created for this most likley wouldn't be an issue.

We are at war with a rogue religion, unless the people of the Islamic faith decide to assist in helping us identify them we are in for a long haul.

Prepare yourself to serve TT, or don't vote democratic and warn your friends.

Rangle did bring it up first about a yr ago. It was blown off by being just some more of "anti-bush" rhetoric. However, the current version was brought up by a guy I think his name is haegle or som'n like that from out around N/SD or the vicinity. I may be wrong about that, but som'n like that is what i remeber anyway from 4-5 months ago.

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 12:50 PM
I hope there isn't a draft. We had a thread about this a while back. Having a draft would be a horrible idea. The military is meeting it's recruitment goals and I don't think people should have to serve in the military if they don't want to.

As for Charles Rangel, sadly, he is my congressman. The people in my area are a bunch of morons and blindly vote for him because he is a Democrat. He consistently gets 90% of the vote during elections.

However, I don't think having a Republican controlled congress will prevent a draft. This isn't a case where most Democrats are for a draft and most Republicans are against it. Rangel brought up the idea of a draft because he thinks that people would think differently about the war if they or their children had to serve. Personally, I think it is a horrible idea, and sadly, the only way he will leave Congress is if he wants to beause if he wants to stay, he will get elected. Congressman don't campaign where I live and they are voted on strictly by their party alliance, and since I live in an area where Democrats outnumber Republicans by a 5 to 1 margin, the Democrat will always win. It sucks that people are voting for someone simply based on their party. I'm not a Republican but if I could vote I would definitely not vote for Charles Rangel.

Yes it was brought up awhile back. But you are wrong about meeting the recruitment goals tho. They were talking about it again last Sunday morning on Face the nation or one of those shows. They discussed about how we have what amounts to a "back door" draft already by extending tours and enlistments in iraq now because we don't have sufficient manpower.
I'm not going to debate whether we should or not have a draft again. i will say that if certain conditions exist again, there will be no alternative. one thing i will always be strictly against is drafting women.

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 12:55 PM
Riiiight...because just launching cruise missiles worked so well the FIRST time the World Trade Center was attacked.

Just didn't launch enough of them !! ;)

themole
06-29-2004, 01:02 PM
Rangle did bring it up first about a yr ago. It was blown off by being just some more of "anti-bush" rhetoric. However, the current version was brought up by a guy I think his name is haegle or som'n like that from out around N/SD or the vicinity. I may be wrong about that, but som'n like that is what i remeber anyway from 4-5 months ago.

I believe that would be Chuck Hagle of Idaho.

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 01:06 PM
When did Dick Cheney serve in the military? :confused:

That's :rofl:

I served 14 yrs in the military but I'm disenfranchised by those on the right because I'm "left-leaning" in my ideology. My service to my country is inconsequential to those who support the "Bushies" and Neo-Conservatives, many of whom, avoided military service but utilize said military to advance their agenda (re: Dick Cheney)

The whole basis to the war in Iraq was "imminent threat" posed by Saddam's "slam dunk" (words of former CIA director George Tenet) stash of WMD's and direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

No WMDs have been found

No direct links between Saddam and Al Qaeda [sic] Osama bin Laden

No "imminent threat"

What we should have done:

1) Increased assets in the Afghanistan/Pakistan region to root out Al Qaeda/Taliban and find OSL (most of our Special Forces assets were diverted to Iraq primarily to find evidence to justify the war)

2) Forgone the tax cut given to those in the higher income brackets and used that money to increase levels of the active duty troops and increase training opportunities for Reserve/National Guard.

3) Continued WMD inspections within Iraq and if Saddam refused, start taking out his many residences one by one

4) Continued efforts to "internationalize" the potential conflict within Iraq as well as the "War on Terrorism"

If the "Bushies" had followed 1-4, it would have been a "slam dunk" re-election :shakeno:

but, but, "THAT WAS THE MAN WHO TRIED TO KILL MY DADDY!" :D

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 01:11 PM
The core anti-terrorism and foreign policy elements of each and every one of your items 1 thru 4 were options available to your beloved former President Bill over the course of two terms of office. Help us understand why the Dems in the White House failed to act effectively on all four counts.

And i suppose that if Bush1 kept right after Saddam in the Gulf War, we may not even be talking about any of it, perhaps? ;)

P4E
06-29-2004, 01:15 PM
but, but, "THAT WAS THE MAN WHO TRIED TO KILL MY DADDY!" :DWow... you find the military dictator of an autocratic regime seeking to have a former U.S. president assassinated a laughing matter?

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 01:17 PM
<<<------- Has vast military experience.;)

I was once a guest of the captain of the surface supply ship U.S.S. Butte for 4 days of exercises in the North Atlantic. We rendevouzed with the battleship Iowa (pre-turret explosion:( ) and I observed underway replenishment operations in which cables are sent across between the two ships and pallets of materiel are transferred as the ships cruise side-by-side. They also let me fire the .50 caliber machine guns at floating targets. Way cool.:D

I ate at the Captain's table in the Ward Room, which entitled me to exposure to the same incredible case of food poisoning suffered by the Captain, the Executive Officer, a host of other senior officers and the ship's chaplain. LOL

(I was invited after I had assisted the Navy on some community relations problems near a base in NJ, -- just some minor conflicts occurring between enlisted men and locals apparently upset that enlistees were consistently stealing all the hottest girls. I was willing to move on from there to solve the problems in the Middle East, but they never asked.;) )

I was a "charter memeber" of the "Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club" !! :eek: :lol:

WharfRat
06-29-2004, 01:18 PM
Think that's bad! They were called C & K rations when I was in service. No pouches.. to tear open..just a nifty little p-38 can opener that I still have to day.


:barf:

I remember them well ... :shakeno:

BTW... I still have my p38 also, been on my keyring for 20+ years! Have used it in countless ways! Best thing ever invented (besides sliced bread) :D

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 01:19 PM
I believe that would be Chuck Hagle of Idaho.

You may be right. you see, I am once again wrong !! :D

Name is right but i think he is actually from nebraska?

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 01:21 PM
Just didn't launch enough of them !! ;)

Unless they were hand delivered by the US Army Infantry...it wouldn't matter HOW many were launched... :shakeno:

DeDolfan
06-29-2004, 01:22 PM
Wow... you find the military dictator of an autocratic regime seeking to have a former U.S. president assassinated a laughing matter?


No, you took it the wrong way. Alot of folks have always commented about how he should have never publicly said that. That's just one of those "public ironies" in that you can't always just say what you think. ;)

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 01:26 PM
Think that's bad! They were called C & K rations when I was in service. No pouches.. to tear open..just a nifty little p-38 can opener that I still have to day.

I've had C Rats(spagetti wasn't terrible, and the beans were passable), and K rats are still around. There are some K rats that aren't have bad actually. One year they cracked open some turkey and yams that were pretty darned good. Of course that's balanced by the DREADED K Rat omelete. There's also an MRE omelete that must share the same recipe. In a nutshell, the stuff looks (and almost tastes) the same going up as it does going down. I'd be amazed if eggs ever got even CLOSE to those things while being made. Overall though, there are some decent MRE's. Watch out for those oatmeal cookies though. Wool doesn't have as much fiber as those things(we called them a$$ mortars).

themole
06-29-2004, 02:23 PM
I've had C Rats(spagetti wasn't terrible, and the beans were passable), and K rats are still around. There are some K rats that aren't have bad actually. One year they cracked open some turkey and yams that were pretty darned good. Of course that's balanced by the DREADED K Rat omelete. There's also an MRE omelete that must share the same recipe. In a nutshell, the stuff looks (and almost tastes) the same going up as it does going down. I'd be amazed if eggs ever got even CLOSE to those things while being made. Overall though, there are some decent MRE's. Watch out for those oatmeal cookies though. Wool doesn't have as much fiber as those things(we called them a$$ mortars).

Omeletes!!

That would be the green ones? :roflmao:

themole
06-29-2004, 02:33 PM
:barf:

I remember them well ... :shakeno:

BTW... I still have my p38 also, been on my keyring for 20+ years! Have used it in countless ways! Best thing ever invented (besides sliced bread) :D


I keep mine on my key ring too Wharf. Do you remember the civilian version that was produced? They were VERY flimsy and made for TODAYS metal cans, not the steel cans of the 40s and 50s. I would NEVER depart from my trusty original p38. :D

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:35 PM
Omeletes!!

That would be the green ones? :roflmao:


Greenish yellow, with brown patches that were supposed to be something....God knows what. Only thing other than SOS which I could never bring myself to eat.

themole
06-29-2004, 02:47 PM
Greenish yellow, with brown patches that were supposed to be something....God knows what. Only thing other than SOS which I could never bring myself to eat.


:lol: My Dad was WWII 12yr. Army Ranger. SOS, was a regular at our breakfast table when he cooked breakfast. I liked it in the mess hall and I like it now, only thing is it ain't good for the blood pressure.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:52 PM
ACK...I know some people loved it, but it just looked like vomit to me.

themole
06-29-2004, 03:05 PM
ACK...I know some people loved it, but it just looked like vomit to me.


:roflmao: I've never given it much thought, but it does look a lot like the stuff you find in "Spencers".

BigFinFan
06-29-2004, 03:57 PM
If you have to eat on a ship, tell them you want to eat in the Chiefs Mess. We get the best food in the Fleet!

P4E
06-30-2004, 12:06 AM
I'll take a moment here to tip my hat to those of you who've earned those can openers and deserved much better food.

Thanks, guys!!

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 12:16 AM
Another telling sign that the "Bushies" have horribly mismanaged the entire Iraqi operation:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/pentagon.reserves/index.html

If I get called, I ain't going :mad:

ohall
06-30-2004, 12:55 AM
Another telling sign that the "Bushies" have horribly mismanaged the entire Iraqi operation:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/pentagon.reserves/index.html

If I get called, I ain't going :mad:

Good I hope you enjoy living in Canada. They love ppl like you up there.

Oliver...

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 12:57 AM
I served 14 yrs already.........how about the Bush daughters signing up and going? :mad:

ohall
06-30-2004, 01:13 AM
I served 14 yrs already.........how about the Bush daughters signing up and going? :mad:

That would be up to them no? Why do you think throwing around names of politicians that have children who have not sevred does you and kind of service?

Who made you join up? Why do so many ppl get so negative and try and use their service as some kind of sheild in these debates? This is what makes our country so GREAT. If your logic was allowed to run it's full course only military ppl would be running this government. Is that what you want?

Oliver...

P4E
06-30-2004, 05:17 AM
I served 14 yrs already.........how about the Bush daughters signing up and going? :mad:
Too soft. But they are thinkin' about sending Cheney's daughter.:)

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 05:23 AM
In all actuality, the Bush daughters are :cp:

P4E
06-30-2004, 05:29 AM
In all actuality, the Bush daughters are :cp:
If elections were won on a hot daughters index, we'd at least have had nice stuff to look at while suffering under Presidents Mondale and Gore.:lol:

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 05:40 AM
Yep, Kerry's daughter is a looker as well :tongue:

P4E
06-30-2004, 07:09 AM
If elections were won on a hot daughters index, we'd at least have had nice stuff to look at while suffering under Presidents Mondale and Gore.:lol:
Every time I've been with Eleanor, I look into her eyes... and I see Walter. I just can't do it.:(

http://www.samsloan.com/emondale.htm

Section126
06-30-2004, 07:48 AM
Yep, Kerry's daughter is a looker as well :tongue:

She showed her boobs in France (see through dress)

I have not seen such droopy things, since man boobs patrolled the Bills sideline.

Section126
06-30-2004, 07:49 AM
Another telling sign that the "Bushies" have horribly mismanaged the entire Iraqi operation:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/pentagon.reserves/index.html

If I get called, I ain't going :mad:


Mismanaged the Iraq operation?

Not much for military history are ya, clump?

themole
06-30-2004, 08:03 AM
Every time I've been with Eleanor, I look into her eyes... and I see Walter. I just can't do it.:(

http://www.samsloan.com/emondale.htm


:shakeno: That did not come from Walter Mondales loins!

Perhaps the milkman...but not Walter.

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 09:33 AM
Mismanaged the Iraq operation?

Not much for military history are ya, clump?


I'm very well versed in military history :shakeno:

Yes, from beginning to the unknown end, mismanaged.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 10:36 AM
I'm very well versed in military history :shakeno:

Yes, from beginning to the unknown end, mismanaged.


They aren't recalling toads like you or me Clumpy. They're recalling Civil Service weanies. That's why I was saying a draft will never happen because of THIS conflict. The people they are short of are administrators, doctors, those types. And draftees, even if they are signed up for 2 years, aren't much good when the MINIMUM training you need to give these guys to do the jobs you are short of takes 1-2 years.

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 11:05 AM
Shhhh.........I know, I was just throwing fuel on the fire :lol:

DeDolfan
06-30-2004, 11:44 AM
Good I hope you enjoy living in Canada. They love ppl like you up there.

Oliver...

BTW, have you ever served? I don't see how they can call up anybody that has already served their complete enlistment, especially when there are so many available folks running around that never have served.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 11:55 AM
BTW, have you ever served? I don't see how they can call up anybody that has already served their complete enlistment, especially when there are so many available folks running around that never have served.


That's part of what you sign up for...Active Duty to Reserve Duty to Ready Reserve. They don't need new bodies, they need highly trained bodies. A new recruit today wouldn't be ready for 3-4 years.

DeDolfan
06-30-2004, 12:19 PM
That's part of what you sign up for...Active Duty to Reserve Duty to Ready Reserve. They don't need new bodies, they need highly trained bodies. A new recruit today wouldn't be ready for 3-4 years.

That would depend on that particular recruits billet.

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 12:29 PM
They are re-calling those who haven't finished their original 8 yrs.

When I signed up in 1984, I signed a "6 + 2" commitment. The first 6 yrs were "active reserves", that is, I went to my weekend drills and 2 week summer camp for 6 yrs. The last 2, I had the option of IRR or continue as "active reserve". The people being re-called are those in that 2 yr window who went into the IRR

DeDolfan
06-30-2004, 12:35 PM
They are re-calling those who haven't finished their original 8 yrs.

When I signed up in 1984, I signed a "6 + 2" commitment. The first 6 yrs were "active reserves", that is, I went to my weekend drills and 2 week summer camp for 6 yrs. The last 2, I had the option of IRR or continue as "active reserve". The people being re-called are those in that 2 yr window who went into the IRR

The 8 yr thing is something new. back in the day, we signed up for 6 total, 4 active and 2 reserves. They could recall us only during the reserve yrs tho. Regardless, call it what you want, but it's a back door draft. They need more folks and they ain't gittin' enuf the old fashioned way, I guess!! ;) :lol:

Clumpy
06-30-2004, 12:54 PM
I agree about "backdoor" draft. It's a shame that this is being done. This will only undermine future enlistments

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 01:07 PM
That would depend on that particular recruits billet.


Sigh...the people they need right NOW are the highly trained specialists in medicine and Civil Affairs. Those aren't troops with a 6 week AIT. Those are troops with AIT's that take a year or more to complete. And even then they are useless until they've had at least a year or so of on the job training. That's why they are recalling these individuals. They have the training and experience NOW when it's needed. New recruits or draftees would be useless here. Any assertion otherwise ignores the facts.

themole
06-30-2004, 01:26 PM
They are re-calling those who haven't finished their original 8 yrs.

When I signed up in 1984, I signed a "6 + 2" commitment. The first 6 yrs were "active reserves", that is, I went to my weekend drills and 2 week summer camp for 6 yrs. The last 2, I had the option of IRR or continue as "active reserve". The people being re-called are those in that 2 yr window who went into the IRR

What was your rank clump? Did you owe them for an education? In 1968 enlisted men were obligated for 6 yrs. Officers a little longer. WOs in between enlisted and officer.

Section126
06-30-2004, 01:29 PM
I'm very well versed in military history :shakeno:

Yes, from beginning to the unknown end, mismanaged.

You do not know what you are talking about.

The Iraq invasion was a test of military theory that was thought up in the early 90's and Tom Clancy used in some of his books. It was called "Hyper War".

The Theory in implementation was a rousing success as per the Joint Chiefs and the U.S. Army War College.

It is currently being implemented throughout the army.

So again, you are wrong.....again.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 01:37 PM
What I find funny was when we were rolling through Iraq prior to "Mission Accomplished", all you heard was that Bush was using Clintons Army to acheive such great success. Once things evolved to the current guerilla war however, it's all Bush's fault. "Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphin".

ThunderCane
06-30-2004, 02:06 PM
http://www.iraqtimeline.com/

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 02:13 PM
http://www.iraqtimeline.com/


Do you think posting the same link to five posts, regardless of topic MIGHT count as trolling? Or at least annoying?

themole
06-30-2004, 02:14 PM
What I find funny was when we were rolling through Iraq prior to "Mission Accomplished", all you heard was that Bush was using Clintons Army to acheive such great success. Once things evolved to the current guerilla war however, it's all Bush's fault. "Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphin".


That's true.

Failure is yet to be seen. I'm no war historian, so I can't tell you if anything like this in the history of warfare has ever been accomplished.

Save, for the loss of less than a thousand U.S. lifes, over a period of a year. It's been a cake walk.

ThunderCane
06-30-2004, 02:17 PM
Do you think posting the same link to five posts, regardless of topic MIGHT count as trolling? Or at least annoying?
No...it is call spreading the truth...go ahead swallow.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 02:23 PM
No...it is call spreading the truth...go ahead swallow.

Firstly, it's "called", not "call". Secondly, if the point or link was worthwhile, I think enough people saw it on the first or 2nd post that you didn't need to throw it out there FIVE times. Here's an idea...why not try convincing people with the quality of your posts, rather than just the quantity? Heck, why not go back and answer my question...why should I vote FOR Kerry, rather than AGAINST Bush? That should be easy for a Kerry supporter.

BigFinFan
06-30-2004, 02:26 PM
IRT the 8 year commitment:

I joined in 1988, and it was explained to me then that I would have to complete 8 years of service. It does not matter how you complete the 8 years (Active, Ready Reserve or Inactive Ready Reserve). Any combination of those three would account for the 8 years of service.

The one thing that was not explained was that upon 20 years of service, I would be eligible for retirement - at 40% of my base pay. Fortunately, the Military has now opted to give its members a choice upon 15 years of service. Upon reaching your 15 year mark, you have the choice of 50% retirement or 40% retirement plus $30,000.

I chose the 50% - it works out better in the long run!

ohall
06-30-2004, 06:46 PM
BTW, have you ever served? I don't see how they can call up anybody that has already served their complete enlistment, especially when there are so many available folks running around that never have served.

No I haven't served. If he is called up and he doesn't go he'll be AWOL and I would think his only option at that point would be to go live in Canada where they love AWOL American soldiers.

It's a free country and no one made anyone join the service. When there's a draft and they draft me I'll be there. That's my right as a American citizen. If you don't like the arrangement write your local congress person.

Oliver...

BigFinFan
06-30-2004, 07:11 PM
Nice Oliver...



...Very Nice

:navy:

DeDolfan
07-02-2004, 04:25 PM
No I haven't served. If he is called up and he doesn't go he'll be AWOL and I would think his only option at that point would be to go live in Canada where they love AWOL American soldiers.

It's a free country and no one made anyone join the service. When there's a draft and they draft me I'll be there. That's my right as a American citizen. If you don't like the arrangement write your local congress person.

Oliver...

That would be true for anyone with any amount of any obligatory time left at all. all this "extra time" stuff is new to me. Back in the day, we were obliged for 6 total years and we were done. There was some kind of clause as i recollect about being able to recall you up to age 36 in the event of a national emergency tho. Anyway, my feelings about anyone that chooses Canada, STAY THERE. I still can not forgive nixon for paredoning all those draft dodgers. but I'll leave that for another thread tho! ;)

BTW tho, i have come to really appreciate your honesty tho! Even tho we don't always agree, you do have my total respect !! thank you!

P4E
07-02-2004, 04:37 PM
Was it not Jimmy Carter who pardoned the Vietnam era draft dodgers who went to Canada? I mean, when he wasn't busy enabling Soviet influence and expansion in Nicaragua, South Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran, etc?

DeDolfan
07-02-2004, 05:16 PM
Was it not Jimmy Carter who pardoned the Vietnam era draft dodgers who went to Canada? I mean, when he wasn't busy enabling Soviet influence and expansion in Nicaragua, South Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran, etc?

Actually, i think you may be right. It was the act that totally pizzed me off at the time. you know, most of us put our butt on the line and these clowns chicken out and then get to come on back home like they never did no wrong! oh well, please don't get me goin' now! :lol: Thanks for correcting me tho !!

ohall
07-02-2004, 11:07 PM
That would be true for anyone with any amount of any obligatory time left at all. all this "extra time" stuff is new to me. Back in the day, we were obliged for 6 total years and we were done. There was some kind of clause as i recollect about being able to recall you up to age 36 in the event of a national emergency tho. Anyway, my feelings about anyone that chooses Canada, STAY THERE. I still can not forgive nixon for paredoning all those draft dodgers. but I'll leave that for another thread tho! ;)

BTW tho, i have come to really appreciate your honesty tho! Even tho we don't always agree, you do have my total respect !! thank you!

Same here buddy. Everyone can't believe the same thing. If we did it would be one boring world.

Oliver...

DeDolfan
07-05-2004, 02:40 PM
Same here buddy. Everyone can't believe the same thing. If we did it would be one boring world.

Oliver...


Ain't it the truth! ? i try to be as objective as possible and sometime, I may not be always be "playing with a full deck", but generally, I'll stick to my guns but will change my mind in light od new and different info tho. I'll even apologize for being wrong once I realize that I had erred. But the key there is "REALIZE". Some times i'm a little "thicker than usual" and it may take some time tho !! :D :D

Enjoy your holiday !!