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t2thejz
07-02-2004, 08:01 AM
I think it is bull**** that America doesnt have a flat tax rate. First of all if we did the econemy would be doing a lot better. Second of all its not right taxing people more because they have more hard earned money. Its their money and the goverment has no right to do that. If you ask me it sounds like communism.

Phinzone
07-02-2004, 09:03 AM
I think it is bull**** that America doesnt have a flat tax rate. First of all if we did the econemy would be doing a lot better. Second of all its not right taxing people more because they have more hard earned money. Its their money and the goverment has no right to do that. If you ask me it sounds like communism.

Do you know what communism is? Because if you did, you'd realize that a Flat tax rate is damn near the deffinition of communism.

The Minority pay a HUGE chunk of our taxes. I can't recall the exact numbers, but a tiny portion pays a LOT. So to do what you ask, your taxes would go up considerably to make up that gap. Which in turn would hurt the middle and low classes even MORE. Really really stupid idea.

t2thejz
07-02-2004, 09:52 AM
http://www.nj.npri.org/on96/07/flattax.htm
I think it could help this country out a lot.
Siingle Couple
10% $7,000 $14,000
15% $28,400 $56,800
25% $68,800 $114,650
28% $143,500 $174,700
33% $311,950 $311,950
Those are the tax rates now. We could have a flat tax with 17%. Thats not bad at all.

iceblizzard69
07-02-2004, 09:56 AM
Flat taxes are a horrible idea. All it would do is hurt the lower and middle classes even more and create an even larger gap between the rich and poor. I'm not saying that the rich should give up 60% while the poor give up 5% but the rich should be giving a higher percentage of their money to the government than the poor.

t2thejz
07-02-2004, 10:00 AM
Russia has a flat tax rate and its prooven to of helped them out.

Clumpy
07-02-2004, 10:07 AM
Russia has a flat tax rate and its prooven to of helped them out.


:roflmao:

t2thejz
07-02-2004, 10:24 AM
Flat taxes are a horrible idea. All it would do is hurt the lower and middle classes even more and create an even larger gap between the rich and poor. I'm not saying that the rich should give up 60% while the poor give up 5% but the rich should be giving a higher percentage of their money to the government than the poor.
No you would have to earn more than 33,000 a year to have an income tax. After that everyone would be paying 17 percent of their income which is about what people are paying who make 30 to 58 grand. So no it wouldnt hurt the middle class. It would help the poor. It would be fair for the rich and it would increase spending and help the econemy.

t2thejz
07-02-2004, 10:28 AM
:roflmao:
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032403.cfm?RenderforPrint=1
Whats so funny. Its true. :shakeno: :rolleyes:

PhinPhan1227
07-02-2004, 10:34 AM
Hilary has already admitted to her desire for a Socialist State(which is more of what you guys are talking about than a true Communist state)

""Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

...that being said, I voted yes for a flat tax, but a flat Federal Sales tax, not a flat income tax. Income tax should be done away with altogether and a flat Fed sales tax initiated.

DolFan31
07-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Hilary has already admitted to her desire for a Socialist State(which is more of what you guys are talking about than a true Communist state)

""Many of you are well enough off that ... the tax cuts may have helped you," Sen. Clinton said. "We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

...that being said, I voted yes for a flat tax, but a flat Federal Sales tax, not a flat income tax. Income tax should be done away with altogether and a flat Fed sales tax initiated.

I agree, and cut the size of government so there's plenty of money still around that would otherwise eat up most of the taxes from sales tax.

DeDolfan
07-05-2004, 02:54 PM
just thinking "out loud", but what about a nat'l sales tax in lieu of income tax? In that, the tax would be charged on all levels of sale and services. I'm sure with all the commerce in this country, they could figure out a % to charge, probably [guessing again] quite equal to what the average states' sales tax is. But then again, that would shrink the IRS to near nothing, etc. Like I said tho, just a thought.

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2004, 02:57 PM
just thinking "out loud", but what about a nat'l sales tax in lieu of income tax? In that, the tax would be charged on all levels of sale and services. I'm sure with all the commerce in this country, they could figure out a % to charge, probably [guessing again] quite equal to what the average states' sales tax is. But then again, that would shrink the IRS to near nothing, etc. Like I said tho, just a thought.

Missed this part of my post huh? ;)

"...that being said, I voted yes for a flat tax, but a flat Federal Sales tax, not a flat income tax. Income tax should be done away with altogether and a flat Fed sales tax initiated."

I'd vote for a Fed sales tax in a heartbeat, but it's never happen. The only people who would REALLY benefit are the middle class, and we're the only lobby not represented in Washington.

themole
07-05-2004, 03:15 PM
...that being said, I voted yes for a flat tax, but a flat Federal Sales tax, not a flat income tax. Income tax should be done away with altogether and a flat Fed sales tax initiated.

That I totally agree with.

themole
07-05-2004, 03:23 PM
. But then again, that would shrink the IRS to near nothing, etc. Like I said tho, just a thought.


Shrink the sons of b!tches! "Voluntary Compliance" an oxymoron indeed. Jackbooted thuggery is what I call it. :fire:

DeDolfan
07-05-2004, 05:07 PM
Missed this part of my post huh? ;)

"...that being said, I voted yes for a flat tax, but a flat Federal Sales tax, not a flat income tax. Income tax should be done away with altogether and a flat Fed sales tax initiated."

I'd vote for a Fed sales tax in a heartbeat, but it's never happen. The only people who would REALLY benefit are the middle class, and we're the only lobby not represented in Washington.

Sorry, I didn't. i saw the poll and went right to the meat!!
Way I see it, everyone could control what they wanted to pay. If you're "rich" [even tho you go in debt up to your ying yang] and wanna drive a Mercedes instead of a Dae Woo, then go for it. You wanna eat filet mignon everynight instead of an old hot dog once in awhile, then for that also. Anyway, just think of the benefits to gov would get. All illegal activity profits would be taxed. The pimp on the street ain't paying taxes at all right now, or the drug dealers. But they'll pay their share when they go out and buy all those fancy things they all buy. But it would only work as long as it would be set, whatever it is, and then the crooked gov doesn't mess with it. But sooner or later, one of those crooked bastards would get the bright idea to give a "tax break" to the higher ticket items. Their "idea" would be to encourage the purchase of higher priced items THEReFORE adding more $$$ in the kitty and such. But then, all that would do is to give a big asssed break to the rich cronies so they won't be "taxed" as much when they buy their 20 mil yachts and airplanes and such. There have been alot of good things down thru the years and then gets all screwed up when the gov starts "fixing things"! Implement a plan and don't F$%#^ with it from there on !! betcha one thing! It would sure as hell eliminate all of these tax deductable, cross country [in Hawaii, no doubt, ;) ] conventions, seminars and what not!! just think, the filthy rich would actually have to PAY for their vacations !!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :lol: :D

DeDolfan
07-05-2004, 05:08 PM
Shrink the sons of b!tches! "Voluntary Compliance" an oxymoron indeed. Jackbooted thuggery is what I call it. :fire:


Not to mention some lawyers, [oh, boo frikking hoo] and CPAs.

PhinPhan1227
07-06-2004, 01:46 AM
Best thing about the Federal Sales tax...it wouldn't affect charitable contributions. Right now when you raise the tax on higher income brackets it REALLY impacts charities. Sorry, but Non-Profit's don't make their money from poor people. Make a flat Fed sales tax and the wealthy could still contribute tax free.

TerryTate
07-06-2004, 02:42 AM
Just say Hellll no to a flat tax.....not every millionaire got their money cause they worked their butt off for it.....

PhinPhan1227
07-06-2004, 10:13 AM
Just say Hellll no to a flat tax.....not every millionaire got their money cause they worked their butt off for it.....


What does that have to do with anything? If you have kids, aren't you doing everything in your power to take what you're making and use it to give them a better life?

themole
07-06-2004, 12:00 PM
Just say Hellll no to a flat tax.....not every millionaire got their money cause they worked their butt off for it.....


TT...although I'm not one of the rich, I've learned to do some things financially that the rich do, that has help set me up for the rest of my life.

It started in the mid 70s with a NYT best seller titled "How to prosper in the coming bad years". Non fiction by "Howard Ruff".

I subscribed to his news letter and put his principles to work as best I could while raising a family on hourly wages. Along with his news letter, I agreed to be on his mailing list which introduced me to the world of economics in laymens terms.

One that really opened my eyes was a monthly subscription to a magazine named "The Freeman" published by "The Foundation For Economic Education". I still get this mag. today and still benefit from it.

At one time I believe that one of the contributing writers was a Prof. from UCF.

Check with the library and see if they have this magazine. You will not only get some very good History on the U.S. Constitution but what Our Forefathers intended for this nation to be economically.

There is always two sides to every story. :D

Themole

DeDolfan
07-07-2004, 11:00 AM
Best thing about the Federal Sales tax...it wouldn't affect charitable contributions. Right now when you raise the tax on higher income brackets it REALLY impacts charities. Sorry, but Non-Profit's don't make their money from poor people. Make a flat Fed sales tax and the wealthy could still contribute tax free.

i know what you're saying but they wouldn't get a "tax break" as they enjoy now with it being deductable, right? We probably would see alot of charities suffer because of it since, now i'm just taking a WILD guess, most charitable contributions are probably made with the tax savings in mind more so than from the "kindness from their hearts". ;) That is the biggest drawback to it that I see. But then again, nothing is perfect and at least EVERYone would pay their fair share.

PhinPhan1227
07-07-2004, 11:32 AM
i know what you're saying but they wouldn't get a "tax break" as they enjoy now with it being deductable, right? We probably would see alot of charities suffer because of it since, now i'm just taking a WILD guess, most charitable contributions are probably made with the tax savings in mind more so than from the "kindness from their hearts". ;) That is the biggest drawback to it that I see. But then again, nothing is perfect and at least EVERYone would pay their fair share.

It would take a small hit due to tax shelters not being available. But also bear in mind that for most really wealthy people it isn't about the money...it's about the power and the bragging rights. I've got friends and acquantances who are truly "wealthy". Multi-million dollar wealthy. Each and every one of them is cheaper than any poor person I've ever known. But when they do spend their money, they do so in a manner which reflects their desire to build themselves up with the power/prestige the money buys. So if Theresa Heinz Kerry wants to have her name on another biology building at a local college, she'll still spend that money.

DeDolfan
07-07-2004, 11:45 AM
It would take a small hit due to tax shelters not being available. But also bear in mind that for most really wealthy people it isn't about the money...it's about the power and the bragging rights. I've got friends and acquantances who are truly "wealthy". Multi-million dollar wealthy. Each and every one of them is cheaper than any poor person I've ever known. But when they do spend their money, they do so in a manner which reflects their desire to build themselves up with the power/prestige the money buys. So if Theresa Heinz Kerry wants to have her name on another biology building at a local college, she'll still spend that money.


Ah, yes, those ever so important big-shot bragging rights!
Sorry I didn't even consider such !! ;) :D

PhinPhan1227
07-07-2004, 11:53 AM
Ah, yes, those ever so important big-shot bragging rights!
Sorry I didn't even consider such !! ;) :D


I worked for a guy who had a hard on for Ferraris. He bought a 2004 Spyder, a 250k car. He got it because the guy who ordered it backed out. Fine and dandy, but then he started downing the guy who ordered it because he didn't order it with the additional Ferrari emblem on the side. That little piece of tin cost TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS. That little yellow freaking shield on the side...25 grand. Doesn't make the car go any faster, and I doubt that people can't figure out it's a Ferrari without it. And yet the guy was apparently a putz for not ordering it. Boggles my mind sometimes.

P4E
07-07-2004, 03:11 PM
Doesn't make the car go any faster, and I doubt that people can't figure out it's a Ferrari without it. And yet the guy was apparently a putz for not ordering it. Boggles my mind sometimes.
I wouldn't worry about the boggling problem too much, Phan. Your posts show that you can fully deboggle it any time you need to. Some of the other folks here get boggled -- and just stay there. I won't mention any names <cough, Redrum, cough cough>:D

BigFinFan
07-07-2004, 04:12 PM
:roflmao:

ABrownLamp
07-18-2004, 10:06 PM
Flat taxes are a horrible idea. All it would do is hurt the lower and middle classes even more and create an even larger gap between the rich and poor. I'm not saying that the rich should give up 60% while the poor give up 5% but the rich should be giving a higher percentage of their money to the government than the poor.
Actually a flat tax would benefit everyone. Most people think that a flat tax consists of a middle ground between the lowest and highest tax brackets. In actualiy, a flat tax at 6-7% would work if we eliminated all of the ancillary tax deferred programs like giving to charity. This means everyone will have more money to spend.
So if everyone has more money to spend and we initiate a federal sales tax, the government is actually acruing more money than they were before the original tax brackets. With the extra dollars we may be able to address this whole health care issue. It's a theory though.