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View Full Version : F 9/11 does not have ONE credible claim.



Section126
07-02-2004, 09:34 AM
Check out this article,

It seems that every single point in the movie has now been debunked and also proven to be completely fabricated or "stretched".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek

DolFan31
07-02-2004, 12:21 PM
Why are guys so up in arms about a freakin' movie? Everyone knows its Moore's liberal version of the truth and his opinions and theories. If a conservative came out with a movie like this, I wouldnt give a crap about it. Its free speech after all.

PhinPhan1227
07-02-2004, 07:15 PM
Why are guys so up in arms about a freakin' movie? Everyone knows its Moore's liberal version of the truth and his opinions and theories. If a conservative came out with a movie like this, I wouldnt give a crap about it. Its free speech after all.


The only problem I have is that there are borderline people out there stupid or weak enough to actually make their minds up as a result of this film.

Section126
07-02-2004, 08:59 PM
Why are guys so up in arms about a freakin' movie? Everyone knows its Moore's liberal version of the truth and his opinions and theories. If a conservative came out with a movie like this, I wouldnt give a crap about it. Its free speech after all.


You would be up in arms if somebody put out a propaganda film of which it seems NOTHING is true, and that propaganda film is maliciously crafted to dupe the american people. If it changes ONE mind, I am pissed off, because it is a two hour lie fest.

At least...that's why I am up in arms......I also find MM to be a POS.

DolFan31
07-02-2004, 10:25 PM
Most of his claims have been backed up...

ohall
07-02-2004, 11:01 PM
Most of his claims have been backed up...

By whom, Ronald McDonald?

Oliver...

Clumpy
07-04-2004, 04:14 AM
The only problem I have is that there are borderline people out there stupid or weak enough to actually make their minds up as a result of this film.


And the conservatives aren't doing the same? :shakeno:

ohall
07-04-2004, 04:21 AM
And the conservatives aren't doing the same? :shakeno:

I had no idea that F 9/11 was a pro-liberal film. Who knew!

Oliver...

The_Philster
07-04-2004, 04:48 AM
And the conservatives aren't doing the same? :shakeno:
Now c'mon Clumpy...you know the neo-con agenda makes them all saints
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Sorry, couldn't even post that with a straight face.

PhinPhan1227
07-04-2004, 04:09 PM
And the conservatives aren't doing the same? :shakeno:

If Pat Robertson comes out with a movie I'll say the same thing.

DolFan31
07-05-2004, 12:41 AM
And why the double-standard? Fox has Republican propaganda all the time, 24/7. Moore's movie is only 2 1/2 hours. But no one says anything about Fox.

The_Philster
07-05-2004, 05:44 AM
And why the double-standard? Fox has Republican propaganda all the time, 24/7. Moore's movie is only 2 1/2 hours. But no one says anything about Fox.
Just shows which side of the spectrum has the biggest whiners. ;)

ohall
07-05-2004, 06:02 AM
And why the double-standard? Fox has Republican propaganda all the time, 24/7. Moore's movie is only 2 1/2 hours. But no one says anything about Fox.

Yes that's why it's the most popular news channel. What you call conservative, most ppl call reality.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2004, 10:58 AM
And why the double-standard? Fox has Republican propaganda all the time, 24/7. Moore's movie is only 2 1/2 hours. But no one says anything about Fox.


Fox is a counter to the NBC/CBS/ABC venues which are much more liberal leaning. Further, when Fox has a Republican on, they also have a Democrat to offer a counter point. That's what keeps it from being propaganda...the other side is given a voice. F9/11 doesn't do that. People shouldn't use words if they don't know what they mean.

ohall
07-05-2004, 11:30 AM
Fox is a counter to the NBC/CBS/ABC venues which are much more liberal leaning. Further, when Fox has a Republican on, they also have a Democrat to offer a counter point. That's what keeps it from being propaganda...the other side is given a voice. F9/11 doesn't do that. People shouldn't use words if they don't know what they mean.

The only shows I have seen a bias on FNC is with it's business shows. However when it comes to business matters the bias is more often than not on the conservative side of things.

Oliver...

DolFan31
07-05-2004, 01:14 PM
Fox is a counter to the NBC/CBS/ABC venues which are much more liberal leaning. Further, when Fox has a Republican on, they also have a Democrat to offer a counter point. That's what keeps it from being propaganda...the other side is given a voice. F9/11 doesn't do that. People shouldn't use words if they don't know what they mean.

The "Democrat" they use is usually someone who doesnt know jack(no jokes or sarcastic remarks please). Its just a cover to look fair and balanced. Thats why its highly rated, people think its really fair and balanced. The host almost always agree with the Republican side.

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2004, 01:21 PM
The "Democrat" they use is usually someone who doesnt know jack(no jokes or sarcastic remarks please). Its just a cover to look fair and balanced. Thats why its highly rated, people think its really fair and balanced. The host almost always agree with the Republican side.

Last time I watched Fox news they had the Bush campaign manager facing off against the Kerry campaign manager. And the moderator gave the Kerry person the last word. Are you going to tell me the Kerry campaign manager is an idiot? Bottom line, I see no difference between CBS and FOX. They are flip sides of the same coin. If you doubt that go back and look at a clip of the NBC/CBS/ABC anchors during the 2000 election. They were NOT unbiased during the election coverage. But again, despite their bias, they DO present both sides the vast majority of the time. Maybe not 50/50, but the other side IS given a voice. F9/11 has NO REPRESENTATION OF A DISENTING OPINION. None, zero, zilch, nada. That defines propaganda. "One sided", NOT just "slanted".

DolFan31
07-06-2004, 10:36 AM
Last time I watched Fox news they had the Bush campaign manager facing off against the Kerry campaign manager. And the moderator gave the Kerry person the last word. Are you going to tell me the Kerry campaign manager is an idiot? Bottom line, I see no difference between CBS and FOX. They are flip sides of the same coin. If you doubt that go back and look at a clip of the NBC/CBS/ABC anchors during the 2000 election. They were NOT unbiased during the election coverage. But again, despite their bias, they DO present both sides the vast majority of the time. Maybe not 50/50, but the other side IS given a voice. F9/11 has NO REPRESENTATION OF A DISENTING OPINION. None, zero, zilch, nada. That defines propaganda. "One sided", NOT just "slanted".

FNC usually used "Democratic Strategists" who are the idiots. FNC called Florida for Bush in 2000, then the other networks, trying not to look liberal, then called Bush for Florida. Its Moore's movie, why should he put in the other side? He just figured FNC and other conservative would come out and present their side.

Section126
07-06-2004, 10:39 AM
FNC usually used "Democratic Strategists" who are the idiots. FNC called Florida for Bush in 2000, then the other networks, trying not to look liberal, then called Bush for Florida. Its Moore's movie, why should he put in the other side? He just figured FNC and other conservative would come out and present their side.


How bout like NBC jumped the gun and called florida for gore and ended up suppressing 10,000 republican votes in the panhandle? Bush would have won Florida going away if it wasn't for NBC using the mistaken exit poll info that was pulled 10 minutes after they used it.

PhinPhan1227
07-06-2004, 12:01 PM
FNC usually used "Democratic Strategists" who are the idiots. FNC called Florida for Bush in 2000, then the other networks, trying not to look liberal, then called Bush for Florida. Its Moore's movie, why should he put in the other side? He just figured FNC and other conservative would come out and present their side.


It's Moores movie and he can do whatever he wants with it. But it's innacurate to label it a documentary when it's a propaganda piece. Moore can make a snuff film for all I care so long as he doesn't label it a romantic comedy and mislead people. As for Fox News, again, I haven't seen them do anything the other networks haven't done. I've seen NBC have a relatively moderate liberal on one side and a foaming at the mouth right wing wacko on the other...is that fair and balanced?

modestophinfan
07-07-2004, 03:16 AM
seriosly, america was built on free speach, but all of a sudden, no one wants this movie to come out. this is a great film, and i encourage everyone to see it.

modestophinfan
07-07-2004, 03:19 AM
u guys just want to believe that bush is this great person, and its ur opinion, but its stupid calling this "propoganda" if it was a conservative movie, ud be calling it "the truth"

ohall
07-07-2004, 09:05 AM
u guys just want to believe that bush is this great person, and its ur opinion, but its stupid calling this "propoganda" if it was a conservative movie, ud be calling it "the truth"

Nope, not if some conservative wacko was lying who made a movie. I'd be all over the lies as well. This is about honesty and the truth. Why would any any1 take any pride in a movie that is full of lies that claims to be telling the truth?

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
07-07-2004, 11:24 AM
u guys just want to believe that bush is this great person, and its ur opinion, but its stupid calling this "propoganda" if it was a conservative movie, ud be calling it "the truth"


Incorrect. As I have stated repeatedly, if a proclaimed right winger created a flim in praise of Bush, I would label it as propaganda as well. The only thing "stupid" here are those who attack the label "propaganda" without understanding that this movie defines the term.

P4E
07-07-2004, 03:03 PM
u guys just want to believe that bush is this great person, and its ur opinion, but its stupid calling this "propoganda" if it was a conservative movie, ud be calling it "the truth"
That's what your knee-jerk liberal impulse might be telling you, but once again it is an incorrect impulse. I have trashed that deceitful, asinine liberal gasbag Moore here in Poli/War repeatedly, but if you review my posts you'll see that I have made a point of clarifying or correcting posts made in the name of conservatism at least twice in the past two weeks. Both were relatively minor points, but accuracy and truth in political discourse matter to me and the other right-of-center folks who post here a great deal.

Shame you can't say the same about your anti-American idol, Michael Moore.

BigFinFan
07-07-2004, 04:11 PM
I watched part of Bowling for Columbione yesterday - the part when he takes the two guys to K-Mart to return the bullets.

IMO - Moore is an idiot. He is using a tragedy (Columbine and 9/11) to fill his pockets.

ohall
07-07-2004, 04:51 PM
I watched part of Bowling for Columbione yesterday - the part when he takes the two guys to K-Mart to return the bullets.

IMO - Moore is an idiot. He is using a tragedy (Columbine and 9/11) to fill his pockets.

He'd make a GREAT trial lawyer!

Oliver...

modestophinfan
07-08-2004, 12:01 AM
P4E- dissent is not un-american. just because u cant stand the movie, doesnt mean that mike moore is un american. if any thing, ur un-american for complaining that moore is un-american. have u ever heard of a little thing called "the first amendment"? i thought not.

P4E
07-08-2004, 05:27 AM
P4E- dissent is not un-american. just because u cant stand the movie, doesnt mean that mike moore is un american. if any thing, ur un-american for complaining that moore is un-american. have u ever heard of a little thing called "the first amendment"? i thought not.Of COURSE I've heard of the First Amendment, modesto. It's the one that says you can make a statement as moronic, inaccurate, illogical and naive as you just did without being punished for it. Lucky for you that you're here in the U.S.

Look, -- don't you think it's a little unfair when you post something that would require my offering you remedial assistance in logic, English, reading comprehension, political science and constitutional law to set you straight? I am only one man.

ltfinfan
07-08-2004, 10:30 AM
And why the double-standard? Fox has Republican propaganda all the time, 24/7. Moore's movie is only 2 1/2 hours. But no one says anything about Fox.

its funny how when a news broadcast shows both sides fairly its considered a conservitive station. well ill take being fair as a Republican trait.

ltfinfan
07-08-2004, 10:32 AM
Nope, not if some conservative wacko was lying who made a movie. I'd be all over the lies as well. This is about honesty and the truth. Why would any any1 take any pride in a movie that is full of lies that claims to be telling the truth?

Oliver...

because the left just wants the power and they don't care how they get it to them the ends justifies the means.

PhinPhan1227
07-08-2004, 12:14 PM
P4E- dissent is not un-american. just because u cant stand the movie, doesnt mean that mike moore is un american. if any thing, ur un-american for complaining that moore is un-american. have u ever heard of a little thing called "the first amendment"? i thought not.


I love when people forget the flip side of the First Ammendment. Yes, you are allowed to speak your mind. And I am allowed to criticize your declaration. Freedom of Speech doesn't equal freedom from criticisizm...just the opposite.

Marino1983
07-08-2004, 01:09 PM
Yes that's why it's the most popular news channel. What you call conservative, most ppl call reality.

Oliver...


Ah I don't think that I would use the term "most ppl" Oliver ...

:lol:

Marino1983

Marino1983
07-08-2004, 01:11 PM
The only shows I have seen a bias on FNC is with it's business shows. However when it comes to business matters the bias is more often than not on the conservative side of things.

Oliver...


That would be called selective viewing Oliver .....

Just because that YOU do not see the "bias" doesn't mean that it isn't there !

:rolleyes:


Marino1983

Marino1983
07-08-2004, 01:19 PM
How bout like NBC jumped the gun and called florida for gore and ended up suppressing 10,000 republican votes in the panhandle? Bush would have won Florida going away if it wasn't for NBC using the mistaken exit poll info that was pulled 10 minutes after they used it.


:goof: "ended up suppressing 10,000 republican votes in the panhandle"

Hum let's see a link to substantiate this B-S 126 ....


:lol:
More like if it wasn't for the conservative right in the Supreme Court, W and his corporate 'deviate' VP - Cheney would be having countless lunches with B Dole and J Kemp .....

:evil:

Marino1983

themole
07-08-2004, 01:25 PM
I watched part of Bowling for Columbione yesterday - the part when he takes the two guys to K-Mart to return the bullets.

IMO - Moore is an idiot. He is using a tragedy (Columbine and 9/11) to fill his pockets.


Show me a "statist" that wouldn't!

themole
07-08-2004, 01:32 PM
Of COURSE I've heard of the First Amendment, modesto. It's the one that says you can make a statement as moronic, inaccurate, illogical and naive as you just did without being punished for it. Lucky for you that you're here in the U.S.

Look, -- don't you think it's a little unfair when you post something that would require my offering you remedial assistance in logic, English, reading comprehension, political science and constitutional law to set you straight? I am only one man.


:biggrin: maybe just fitting him with a new head would be easier.
:roflmao:

themole
07-08-2004, 01:36 PM
I love when people forget the flip side of the First Ammendment. Yes, you are allowed to speak your mind. And I am allowed to criticize your declaration. Freedom of Speech doesn't equal freedom from criticisizm...just the opposite.

Yes...the first amendment is sharper than a "two edged" sword. It cuts both ways.

BigFinFan
07-08-2004, 01:39 PM
Too many people want to claim protection under the First Amendment, but the same people don't want to Defend the Constitution.

Hypocrites!

ohall
07-08-2004, 02:32 PM
That would be called selective viewing Oliver .....

Just because that YOU do not see the "bias" doesn't mean that it isn't there !

:rolleyes:


Marino1983

Very possible, we all have our own pair of blinders on at times.

Oliver...

CrunchTime
07-10-2004, 07:27 PM
N

CrunchTime
07-10-2004, 07:38 PM
No one with a rational educated background can take this movie seriously.Its rabble rousing at its worst.Time and time again Moore has taken pieces of data and represented them as truth adding a conspirational tone to justify the inaccuracies.His style reminds me of Erik Von Danikens books (You know the ones that say we are all descendants of spacemen).Entertaining...maybe but not to be taken seriously.And I am a Democrat.

Section126
07-11-2004, 11:32 AM
:goof: "ended up suppressing 10,000 republican votes in the panhandle"

Hum let's see a link to substantiate this B-S 126 ....


:lol:
More like if it wasn't for the conservative right in the Supreme Court, W and his corporate 'deviate' VP - Cheney would be having countless lunches with B Dole and J Kemp .....

:evil:

Marino1983

It's common knowledge that NBC called Florida for gore almost two hours before the polls had closed in the panhandle...an area that bush won by 40 points.........The exit poll data was deemed flawed and then NBC pulled their projection....But the damage was done.....

In other words....almost everybody that got out of work in the panhandle and was planning on voting....went home because they heard that Gore won the state....thus explaining the poor turnout in the panhandle.....

This is/was common knowledge...are you really that uninformed?

As for a link...there are too many to post....just GOOGLE "10,000 votes suppressed panhandle"

There are about 900 links.......

:0wned:

Section126
07-11-2004, 11:39 AM
Here is a quote from one of the articles:

"According to Sammon, a study commissioned by Democrat strategist Bob Beckel admitted that Bush suffered a net loss of up to 8,000 votes in the Panhandle after the networks called Florida for Gore."

PhinPhan1227
07-12-2004, 11:04 AM
Here is a quote from one of the articles:

"According to Sammon, a study commissioned by Democrat strategist Bob Beckel admitted that Bush suffered a net loss of up to 8,000 votes in the Panhandle after the networks called Florida for Gore."

One thing that DOES piss me off about the FCC...They throw around a ton of fines for one boob, but nothing for a network that violates election law.

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 02:51 PM
Here is a quote from one of the articles:

"According to Sammon, a study commissioned by Democrat strategist Bob Beckel admitted that Bush suffered a net loss of up to 8,000 votes in the Panhandle after the networks called Florida for Gore."

Is he one the so-called "strategists" that Fox puts on air to appear "fair and balanced" when these people have no idea what theyre talking about and have no credentials?

Section126
07-21-2004, 04:12 PM
Is he one the so-called "strategists" that Fox puts on air to appear "fair and balanced" when these people have no idea what theyre talking about and have no credentials?

NO, he's the guy that ran the Walter Mondale campaign for president, and tried to have electoral college members switch votes from Bush to Gore.....

Is he Democrat enough for ya?

:0wned:

ohall
07-21-2004, 04:15 PM
NO, he's the guy that ran the Walter Mondale campaign for president, and tried to have electoral college members switch votes from Bush to Gore.....

Is he Democrat enough for ya?

:0wned:

Shoot pre-invasion this guy wasn't hawk enough for even Kerry or Edwards. How times change for some members of the DEM party!

I remember a time when the DEM party wasn't so pandering as they are now.

Oliver...

AZNeilo
08-01-2004, 05:33 AM
The article mentioned at the beginning of this thread doesn't prove that any of the conclusions Moore makes are 100% impossible. Like most GOP propoganda, it merely tries to deflate his theories. But it in no way says that they are not possible. I for one have begun researching other sources to determine the truth behind each point in that movie. 126 may need to read the article more thoroughly before making such claims.