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View Full Version : National Soveveignty: Does it matter to you?



themole
07-09-2004, 07:46 AM
The United States Constitution is based on the premise that we are a sovereign nation and we don't obey any power unless authorized in the Constitution. The Europeans, on the other hand, are rapidly abandoning their national sovereignty in favor of an international bureaucracy called the European Union.

EU spokesmen are using "unilateralism" as a smear word to show their disdain for America's stubborn adherence to sovereignty. They assert the ridiculous proposition that U.S. actions cannot be legitimate without United Nations approval.

The enemies of sovereignty are squeamish about the term world government. They like the softer slogan global governance, which harbors undefined concepts such as human rights, sustainable development, and international justice.

Any dissenters?

Section126
07-09-2004, 08:49 AM
I especially like those that like John Kerry's "We'll go when the french agree" foreign policy.........

Some in this country actually believe that we NEED the UN to give us legitimacy.

Just sad.

Marino1983
07-09-2004, 09:08 AM
I especially like those that like John Kerry's "We'll go when the french agree" foreign policy.........

Some in this country actually believe that we NEED the UN to give us legitimacy.

Just sad.



And people who LOVE whussy Bushy feel that LYING to the American people for going to war with a country that had a dictator as a leader was / is justified !!! That is unbelievably SAD ...

W had an agenda and he was going to carry it out NO matter what !!!!!!!!

This is the most powerful country on the planet and we need to work with the UN when a crisis like Irag unfolds... When a president basically holds his middle finger up to the rest of the world in this type of disagreement who do you think that reflects back upon ????

:fire:

Marino1983

iceblizzard69
07-09-2004, 10:27 AM
I believe in this country being independent and being it's own country. I would never want this country to be part of an organization like the EU and I doubt we ever will be part of something like that. However, I also believe that we aren't the only nation in the world and when something like Iraq happens we need to work with other nations and the UN.

ohall
07-09-2004, 10:33 AM
And people who LOVE whussy Bushy feel that LYING to the American people for going to war with a country that had a dictator as a leader was / is justified !!! That is unbelievably SAD ...

W had an agenda and he was going to carry it out NO matter what !!!!!!!!

This is the most powerful country on the planet and we need to work with the UN when a crisis like Irag unfolds... When a president basically holds his middle finger up to the rest of the world in this type of disagreement who do you think that reflects back upon ????

:fire:

Marino1983

You know how much I respect you M-83, but you got it backwarsd here IMO. The UN, led by France, Russia and Germany were sticking their middle finger to the world. Now with the UN's food for oil scandal becoming public we now know why they delayed for Iraq and Saddam. Especially France, they had a huge financial stake in not ever invading Iraq. 13-years and I beleive 19 or 20 UN resolution on Iraq made our invasion correct, legal and moral. The President lied to no one. He simple repeated the same Intel that the TWO Clinton's, Gore and Kerry and the UN were talking pre-invasion when the war was supported. In fact Kerry and the TWO Clinton's made even stronger cases against Saddam and the WMD programs.

If you want to make a case against a canidate IMO at should at least be an argument based in reality not some left wing wacko's wet dream.

Oliver...

themole
07-09-2004, 11:20 AM
What did this man know? How does this quote correlate with the topic?

For almost 100 years our polititions ( I believe ) have been devided over the gist of this quote.


Thomas Jefferson - “To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must take our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labors and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.”

OH! let's drop the party politics for a moment and see where this will take us.

I am AMERICA first.

"A rising tide lifts all boats" some will scorn this qoute, but it's the truth. In just a few hundred years the U.S. has become the economic sea for all nations ship of state.

The United Nations interest is not the same as Americas.

P4E
07-09-2004, 11:59 AM
And people who LOVE whussy Bushy feel that LYING to the American people for going to war with a country that had a dictator as a leader was / is justified !!! That is unbelievably SAD ...

W had an agenda and he was going to carry it out NO matter what !!!!!!!!

This is the most powerful country on the planet and we need to work with the UN when a crisis like Irag unfolds... When a president basically holds his middle finger up to the rest of the world in this type of disagreement who do you think that reflects back upon ????

:fire:

Marino1983Yes. We so need to await the approval of an institution whose officials have been systematically corrupted by bribes from Iraq.

DolFan31
07-09-2004, 12:10 PM
EU and World Goverment scare me.

Fin_Fanatic
07-09-2004, 04:03 PM
world government is only good in the theoretical sense. there are too many factors that could get in the way of making it work.

DeDolfan
07-14-2004, 01:21 PM
I especially like those that like John Kerry's "We'll go when the french agree" foreign policy.........

Some in this country actually believe that we NEED the UN to give us legitimacy.

Just sad.

MO about the UN is simply this. If we are a dues paying member, then we are bound by their bylaws and rules, what have you. We agreed to such and so it should be. NOW, is it's not in our best interests to be a memebr, then we should just tell them to go phuque off and get our asssses out of there and pronto. And thell them to take their damn builkding along with them as well !! ;)

DeDolfan
07-14-2004, 01:22 PM
EU and World Goverment scare me.

It's kinda almost like when all those little countries "ganged" up and became know as the USSR!!

ltfinfan
07-14-2004, 02:17 PM
God help the world if we ever give up our sovereignty

PhinPhan1227
07-14-2004, 02:26 PM
And people who LOVE whussy Bushy feel that LYING to the American people for going to war with a country that had a dictator as a leader was / is justified !!! That is unbelievably SAD ...

W had an agenda and he was going to carry it out NO matter what !!!!!!!!

This is the most powerful country on the planet and we need to work with the UN when a crisis like Irag unfolds... When a president basically holds his middle finger up to the rest of the world in this type of disagreement who do you think that reflects back upon ????

:fire:

Marino1983

#1-Call him anything else, but Bush will NEVER be considered a whussy President by ANYONE with half a barin.

#2-Senate Democrats say he isn't a liar. Unless you have a better source of information, you come off as pretty inane disagreeing with the leaders of your own party.

#3-France has veto power. They stated they would veto our efforts no matter how many votes we got. How is it ok for THEM to veto the majority, but not us?

ltfinfan
07-14-2004, 02:33 PM
haven't ppl said that the only reason we went to war was for oil yet when it was found out that france had oil contracts with sadam no one has really said anything.

DeDolfan
07-14-2004, 02:49 PM
#1-Call him anything else, but Bush will NEVER be considered a whussy President by ANYONE with half a barin.

#2-Senate Democrats say he isn't a liar. Unless you have a better source of information, you come off as pretty inane disagreeing with the leaders of your own party.

#3-France has veto power. They stated they would veto our efforts no matter how many votes we got. How is it ok for THEM to veto the majority, but not us?


I hafta admit that Bush does have balls bigger than all of outdoors. Even in spite od conflicting evidence/reports.

Marino1983
07-14-2004, 07:03 PM
]#1-Call him anything else, but Bush will NEVER be considered a whussy President by ANYONE with half a barin.

#2-Senate Democrats say he isn't a liar. Unless you have a better source of information, you come off as pretty inane disagreeing with the leaders of your own party.

#3-France has veto power. They stated they would veto our efforts no matter how many votes we got. How is it ok for THEM to veto the majority, but not us[/COLOR]?



#1 This is comical.... Sooooo ANYONE who disagrees with YOU is ALWAYS wrong then ? :roflmao: See this is the problem with YOUR responses PP1227,, YOU think that YOUR political opinions are gospel but I find the largest percentage of them hilarious ....

#2 True some senate Democrats do feel this way but they also have major problems with how YOUR administration pushed to get us into this war !! Not to mention some moderate senate Republicans ....

#2 Where did I mention ANYTHING about France ?????? My problem is how W is perceived around the world now .... Maybe YOU think that this Country should fold into a fetal isolationalist foriegn policy but I do NOT !!

Marino1983

PhinPhan1227
07-15-2004, 01:10 AM
#1 This is comical.... Sooooo ANYONE who disagrees with YOU is ALWAYS wrong then ? :roflmao: See this is the problem with YOUR responses PP1227,, YOU think that YOUR political opinions are gospel but I find the largest percentage of them hilarious ....

#2 True some senate Democrats do feel this way but they also have major problems with how YOUR administration pushed to get us into this war !! Not to mention some moderate senate Republicans ....

#2 Where did I mention ANYTHING about France ?????? My problem is how W is perceived around the world now .... Maybe YOU think that this Country should fold into a fetal isolationalist foriegn policy but I do NOT !!

Marino1983

#1-Tell you what Marino...find me ANYONE who agrees with you that Bush is a wussy. Find me an article that calls him timid, or any other synonym. The world perception of Bush is that he is a cowboy and OVERLY aggressive. That's the polar opposite of a "wussy".

#2-The Senate Democrats who were in CHARGE of determining whether he lied or even coerced, ALL agree that he did NOT do so. So your assertion that he lied flys in the face of that testimony. Once again I ask you...are they wrong or are they in on the conspiracy. Those are really the only two options you have left yourself.

#3-You're attacking Bush for telling the rest of the world to go screw itself. I'm asking you why it was ok for France to do the EXACT same thing.