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View Full Version : Yeah...and France is telling US what we're doing wrong?



PhinPhan1227
07-12-2004, 12:54 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/12/france.attack.reut/index.html

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- French politicians have condemned an apparently anti-Semitic attack on a woman in which a knife-wielding gang on a suburban train cut her hair, ripped her clothes and drew swastikas on her body.

The attack on a 23-year-old who was with her 13-month-old baby involved six young men on Friday morning in front of other passengers on the train just north of Paris, authorities said.

French media said the attackers appeared to have been north African and that the victim was not Jewish but the gang may have believed she was after taking her handbag and finding identity papers with an address in a wealthy area of Paris.

French President Jacques Chirac issued a statement demanding "everything be done to catch the perpetrators of this shameful act, and that they are judged and sentenced with all severity."

Last week Chirac urged renewed efforts against what he called "the darkest side of human nature," and said state prosecutors should appeal against any lenient sentences handed down for racist, anti-Semitic or homophobic violence.

Anti-Semitic attacks in France have risen in recent months and officials say most are committed by Muslim youths angered by Middle East violence.

France has Europe's largest Jewish and Muslim minorities and racism has become a significant political issue with Chirac concerned widening divisions in French society could harm the country's image.

Jean-Paul Huchon, president of the Ile-de-France region surrounding Paris, said it was vile and unacceptable to attack a defenseless woman and child and condemned that fact that other passengers did nothing to intervene.

He noted that France had deported Jewish children during the German occupation World War II: "And now, we let people be attacked like this without reacting, without doing anything," he said on French radio.

In recent weeks, neo-Nazis have spray-painted swastikas and hate slogans on Jewish, Muslim and Christian cemeteries in the eastern region of Alsace.

The Interior Ministry registered 67 attacks on Jews or their property and 160 threats against Jews in the first quarter of this year compared with 42 attacks and 191 threats in the last three months of 2003.

themole
07-12-2004, 08:10 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/12/france.attack.reut/index.html

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- French politicians have condemned an apparently anti-Semitic attack on a woman in which a knife-wielding gang on a suburban train cut her hair, ripped her clothes and drew swastikas on her body.

The attack on a 23-year-old who was with her 13-month-old baby involved six young men on Friday morning in front of other passengers on the train just north of Paris, authorities said.

French media said the attackers appeared to have been north African and that the victim was not Jewish but the gang may have believed she was after taking her handbag and finding identity papers with an address in a wealthy area of Paris.

French President Jacques Chirac issued a statement demanding "everything be done to catch the perpetrators of this shameful act, and that they are judged and sentenced with all severity."

Last week Chirac urged renewed efforts against what he called "the darkest side of human nature," and said state prosecutors should appeal against any lenient sentences handed down for racist, anti-Semitic or homophobic violence.

Anti-Semitic attacks in France have risen in recent months and officials say most are committed by Muslim youths angered by Middle East violence.

France has Europe's largest Jewish and Muslim minorities and racism has become a significant political issue with Chirac concerned widening divisions in French society could harm the country's image.

Jean-Paul Huchon, president of the Ile-de-France region surrounding Paris, said it was vile and unacceptable to attack a defenseless woman and child and condemned that fact that other passengers did nothing to intervene.

He noted that France had deported Jewish children during the German occupation World War II: "And now, we let people be attacked like this without reacting, without doing anything," he said on French radio.

In recent weeks, neo-Nazis have spray-painted swastikas and hate slogans on Jewish, Muslim and Christian cemeteries in the eastern region of Alsace.

The Interior Ministry registered 67 attacks on Jews or their property and 160 threats against Jews in the first quarter of this year compared with 42 attacks and 191 threats in the last three months of 2003.


If there is another attack on U.S. soil and the american muslim, hasn't or doesn't stand up in total condemnation, I fear uncontroled acts of violence on them.

Are we headed back into the dark ages? "Forward to the past"?

Bling
07-12-2004, 11:55 PM
I hate the French.

t2thejz
07-13-2004, 01:37 PM
I hate the French.
:roflmao: Well said

Fin_Fanatic
07-13-2004, 09:55 PM
I hate the French.
ditto

Bling
07-13-2004, 10:10 PM
DRUDGE: UPDATE: French woman admits she made up anti-Semitic attack... (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040713/1/3logo.html)

I still hate the French though.... ;)

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 12:32 AM
I hate the French.

Thanks for proving your ignorance. Stupid comments like that are why so many people hate this country. :( Hating a whole nationality because they are against some war or something is stupid.

ohall
07-14-2004, 12:40 AM
Thanks for proving your ignorance. Stupid comments like that are why so many people hate this country. :( Hating a whole nationality because they are against some war or something is stupid.

Or maybe they hate this country because some ppl within this country could give a sh!t what they think about anything. And they also know that some ppl within this country know we don't need them for anything but cheese, wine, and white flags for movies that recreate Frances many historical surrenders during times of war.

If you don't kiss their azz they hate you. One day ppl like you will understand where the French and most European countries want the US to be. They suffer from US envy and want it to be like it use to be when we were NOT the lone world power on the face of the earth.

I don't hate the French, but I sure know most of them hate me only because I am an American and I live in the most powerful country in the world!

Oliver...

ltfinfan
07-14-2004, 09:01 AM
Thanks for proving your ignorance. Stupid comments like that are why so many people hate this country. :( Hating a whole nationality because they are against some war or something is stupid.


no many ppl hate this country because they don't have the freedom of press that we do so all the see is the negative and also their is envy of the success our country has had.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 10:00 AM
Or maybe they hate this country because some ppl within this country could give a sh!t what they think about anything. And they also know that some ppl within this country know we don't need them for anything but cheese, wine, and white flags for movies that recreate Frances many historical surrenders during times of war.

If you don't kiss their azz they hate you. One day ppl like you will understand where the French and most European countries want the US to be. They suffer from US envy and want it to be like it use to be when we were NOT the lone world power on the face of the earth.

I don't hate the French, but I sure know most of them hate me only because I am an American and I live in the most powerful country in the world!

Oliver...

People in France generally don't hate the USA, but they do hate our current administration. People over there for the most part can differentiate between a government and it's people.

You are wrong if you think French people hate you because of where you are from. Maybe some do, but most just hate our president. However, there are lots of people in this country who hate France for more than just it's government. I don't agree with their president, but I don't hate the whole country because of it.

Also, people in other countries do not suffer from "US envy." People aren't jealous of this country. Many like their country just like I like mine. I love the USA and wouldn't want to live in any other country, but I'm not going to make myself think that people are jealous of this country because for the most part, they aren't.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 10:01 AM
no many ppl hate this country because they don't have the freedom of press that we do so all the see is the negative and also their is envy of the success our country has had.

This isn't the only country with freedom of the press.......

ltfinfan
07-14-2004, 10:22 AM
This isn't the only country with freedom of the press.......


pretty much we are some other countries close but try and write an article critical of the government in a third world country or china and see what happens

PhinPhan1227
07-14-2004, 10:43 AM
I had a friend who was French. I asked him why the French were rude to everyone. The answer he gave me was...

"Hey, we hate each other, why should we treat you any better?"

After laughing about it he said, dead serious, "no really, that's about it".

ohall
07-14-2004, 11:25 AM
People in France generally don't hate the USA, but they do hate our current administration. People over there for the most part can differentiate between a government and it's people.

You are wrong if you think French people hate you because of where you are from. Maybe some do, but most just hate our president. However, there are lots of people in this country who hate France for more than just it's government. I don't agree with their president, but I don't hate the whole country because of it.

Also, people in other countries do not suffer from "US envy." People aren't jealous of this country. Many like their country just like I like mine. I love the USA and wouldn't want to live in any other country, but I'm not going to make myself think that people are jealous of this country because for the most part, they aren't.

Nonsense they hate us, if you want to think they don't more power to you. They want to be back on top, and everytime they realize they are not and we are on top they direct their anger at us not at themselves where that anger really belongs.

You have a very DEM view of things that's for sure. We have to try and get along with other countries as best as possible, but a good American leader understands they are all looking to get on top and that's why we have to do what is best for this country always. After all they are going to do what is best for their country not what's best for our country!

Oliver...

Bling
07-14-2004, 12:58 PM
Thanks for proving your ignorance. Stupid comments like that are why so many people hate this country. :( Hating a whole nationality because they are against some war or something is stupid.

proving my ignorance? I hate the Government of France. Sorry that you didn't get that. I figured most people would get that.

Bling
07-14-2004, 01:00 PM
you're either


1) French
2) Democrat
3) Big time against the war

t2thejz
07-14-2004, 01:10 PM
People in France generally don't hate the USA, but they do hate our current administration. People over there for the most part can differentiate between a government and it's people.

You are wrong if you think French people hate you because of where you are from. Maybe some do, but most just hate our president. However, there are lots of people in this country who hate France for more than just it's government. I don't agree with their president, but I don't hate the whole country because of it.

Also, people in other countries do not suffer from "US envy." People aren't jealous of this country. Many like their country just like I like mine. I love the USA and wouldn't want to live in any other country, but I'm not going to make myself think that people are jealous of this country because for the most part, they aren't.
Have you been there? I doubt it. Talk about ignorence

t2thejz
07-14-2004, 01:11 PM
Thanks for proving your ignorance. Stupid comments like that are why so many people hate this country. :( Hating a whole nationality because they are against some war or something is stupid.
Yea comments like that are why people hate this country. :shakeno: Give me a break

PhinPhan1227
07-14-2004, 01:21 PM
Also, people in other countries do not suffer from "US envy." People aren't jealous of this country. Many like their country just like I like mine. I love the USA and wouldn't want to live in any other country, but I'm not going to make myself think that people are jealous of this country because for the most part, they aren't.


It's not jealousy of the country, it's jealousy of the power. We have influence, they don't. If you doubt that all you have to see is the EU and their STATED efforts to become a Superpower. You also only have to look at Muslim speeches which proclaim that the only thing keeping the Muslim countries from recapturing the glory days of Saladin is the USA.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 05:09 PM
Nonsense they hate us, if you want to think they don't more power to you. They want to be back on top, and everytime they realize they are not and we are on top they direct their anger at us not at themselves where that anger really belongs.

You have a very DEM view of things that's for sure. We have to try and get along with other countries as best as possible, but a good American leader understands they are all looking to get on top and that's why we have to do what is best for this country always. After all they are going to do what is best for their country not what's best for our country!

Oliver...

I bet that a higher percentage of Americans hate the French than the other way around. I've never been to France, but I have met quite a few French people and they don't hate Americans. Also, I know people who have been there lately and the French generally don't hate Americans but do hate our President. I have heard that people in Paris are very rude but that is for another conversation. I've been to a country (Germany) that had a similar viewpoint to France on the war on Iraq and the people there were really nice and didn't hate me because of the country I am from. I was there before the war but when I was there the moron who is currently in the Oval Office was our President.

I don't have a Democrat view on the war on Iraq. Just because I don't hate the citizens of France doesn't mean I agree with those who are anti-war. I can recognize the difference between a country and it's citizens. Yeah, most French citizens were against the war, but I don't hate them because of that.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Have you been there? I doubt it. Talk about ignorence

Well have you been there? Do you know anyone who has been there?

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 05:12 PM
proving my ignorance? I hate the Government of France. Sorry that you didn't get that. I figured most people would get that.

You said that "you hate the French." There is a big difference between hating a country and it's government. I don't like France's leader but I don't hate their government because it is a democracy and the people can elect their leader. I hate governments where the people have no say in who leads their nation.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 05:15 PM
you're either


1) French
2) Democrat
3) Big time against the war

1) No. I'm an American.

2) No. I'm an Independent and if I were to attach myself to a party, it would be the Libertarian one. I tend to ignore party affiliations. I hate my congressman, who is a Democrat, a lot and hope he gets voted out, but sadly that will not happen.

3) No. I'm not against the war. I think we could have sold it better. I think we could have done a better job. However, I do think having a Democracy in the Middle East will be very good and I am happy that Saddam Hussein is behind bars instead of leading a country.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 05:18 PM
It's not jealousy of the country, it's jealousy of the power. We have influence, they don't. If you doubt that all you have to see is the EU and their STATED efforts to become a Superpower. You also only have to look at Muslim speeches which proclaim that the only thing keeping the Muslim countries from recapturing the glory days of Saladin is the USA.

The EU is a superstate. However, I wouldn't say the French envy the USA. Do they wish they had as much money in their economy than we do in ours? Probably. However, they aren't jealous of our country and hate us because we are powerful. They don't like our government because of the actions of our government.

PhinPhan1227
07-14-2004, 05:53 PM
The EU is a superstate. However, I wouldn't say the French envy the USA. Do they wish they had as much money in their economy than we do in ours? Probably. However, they aren't jealous of our country and hate us because we are powerful. They don't like our government because of the actions of our government.



I cant' speak for every Frenchman. I can speak of the actions of Chirac, which have been to seek power and leverage at every turn. Maybe he isn't jealous of us, but he DOES see us as an obsticle to France regaining a lead in national politics. End result is the same. And the leader of a nation reflects his people, therefore....

t2thejz
07-14-2004, 06:38 PM
Well have you been there? Do you know anyone who has been there?
My dads been all over Europe becasue of his job. He said he being in France was horriable. There the most ungrateful people he knows. Im know not every frenchman hate us. Most of them probably dont but there are a whole lot that do and thats not even the reasons why I hate them.

themole
07-14-2004, 07:02 PM
:shakeno: France ain't nothing to me! The only one I can think of that did us any good was a "pirate", lafayette, in the battle of 18 & 12.

They are such prostitutes, that they have allowed +20% of their population to be taken over by arab muslims. THAT! Is dangerous.

t2thejz
07-14-2004, 07:05 PM
Look at Canada...Mainly Quebec, they let their population be taken over by the French eons ago. Now look at them. Their not looking too good. They need to drop that socialist bullcrap

ohall
07-14-2004, 09:15 PM
I don't have a Democrat view on the war on Iraq. Just because I don't hate the citizens of France doesn't mean I agree with those who are anti-war. I can recognize the difference between a country and it's citizens. Yeah, most French citizens were against the war, but I don't hate them because of that.

Yes you do have a DEM view of the French without a doubt. If you are anti-war France is the country for ppl like you. That's what they know best, how to give up before the real struggle starts.

Most French ppl are against the war because they are pro-Palestinian, like the rest of Europe. Anti-Semitism is growing in Europe once again.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 10:04 PM
Yes you do have a DEM view of the French without a doubt. If you are anti-war France is the country for ppl like you. That's what they know best, how to give up before the real struggle starts.

Most French ppl are against the war because they are pro-Palestinian, like the rest of Europe. Anti-Semitism is growing in Europe once again.

Oliver...

I never said I was against the war. If having a Democratic view means being tolerant, then yes, I have a Democratic view.

Also, the Palestine/Israel issue has nothing to do with this issue. I personally think both sides are wrong but that is a whole other topic.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 10:07 PM
:shakeno: France ain't nothing to me! The only one I can think of that did us any good was a "pirate", lafayette, in the battle of 18 & 12.

They are such prostitutes, that they have allowed +20% of their population to be taken over by arab muslims. THAT! Is dangerous.

Good job taking the intolerance in this thread to a new level.

There is nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims. There is something wrong with terrorists (duh) but terrorists are not true Muslims. The killing of innocents is against the Koran. bin Laden is not a Muslim, he is someone who misinterprets the Koran and that is the case for every other "Islamic" terrorist as well.

This country has quite a few Muslims, and most of them are good citizens. It's a shame that a group of @$$holes has made some people believe that a peaceful religion is one of hate and violence. :(

ohall
07-14-2004, 10:43 PM
Also, the Palestine/Israel issue has nothing to do with this issue. I personally think both sides are wrong but that is a whole other topic.

Then you don't understand where France is coming from. They have to be anti-American for more than one reason. One of the main reasons they have to be anti-American is because they have one of the fastest and largest growing Muslim communities in all of Europe. If you don't think MOST Muslims are pro-Palestinian you understand even less there than you do with why things are the way they are with France and the USA.

Oliver...

ohall
07-14-2004, 10:46 PM
Good job taking the intolerance in this thread to a new level.

There is nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims. There is something wrong with terrorists (duh) but terrorists are not true Muslims. The killing of innocents is against the Koran. bin Laden is not a Muslim, he is someone who misinterprets the Koran and that is the case for every other "Islamic" terrorist as well.

This country has quite a few Muslims, and most of them are good citizens. It's a shame that a group of @$$holes has made some people believe that a peaceful religion is one of hate and violence. :(

The most peaceful Muslim is still pro-Palestinian. This doesn't mean they want Israel and Jews to die, but they most certainly don't want Palestine to be destroyed either, and that is why they see Israel and the US the way they do.

It has nothing do with intolerance, it has to do with reality, the real world.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 11:11 PM
Then you don't understand where France is coming from. They have to be anti-American for more than one reason. One of the main reasons they have to be anti-American is because they have one of the fastest and largest growing Muslim communities in all of Europe. If you don't think MOST Muslims are pro-Palestinian you understand even less there than you do with why things are the way they are with France and the USA.

Oliver...

Most Muslims want to see a Palestinian state. It doesn't mean they believe in suicide bombings or other horrible things that Palestinian terrorists do. However, Muslims aren't the majority in France or even close to it. Also, how many Muslims have major positions in the French government? Last time I checked, Jacques Chirac was not a Muslim.

Also, just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean they hate America.

themole
07-14-2004, 11:20 PM
Good job taking the intolerance in this thread to a new level.

There is nothing wrong with Islam or Muslims. There is something wrong with terrorists (duh) but terrorists are not true Muslims. The killing of innocents is against the Koran. bin Laden is not a Muslim, he is someone who misinterprets the Koran and that is the case for every other "Islamic" terrorist as well.

This country has quite a few Muslims, and most of them are good citizens. It's a shame that a group of @$$holes has made some people believe that a peaceful religion is one of hate and violence. :(


TOLERANCE! Who ever told you tolerance was fail safe?

In their eyes we (America) are the great infidel. Now, by your own admission that term applies to you. But...over 80% of America are believers, so ask yourself, who should they be targeting?

You've been pumped full of a lot of noble ideals, all you need is another 16 yrs. minimum, of life experience to temper that shangri-la attitude.

:roflmao: Try telling a terrorist he is not a true muslim, he'll relieve you of your noggin, child.

iceblizzard69
07-14-2004, 11:22 PM
TOLERANCE! Who ever told you tolerance was fail safe?

In their eyes we (America) are the great infidel. Now, by your own admission that term applies to you. But...over 80% of America are believers, so ask yourself, who should they be targeting?

You've been pumped full of a lot of noble ideals, all you need is another 16 yrs. minimum, of life experience to temper that shangri-la attitude.

:roflmao: Try telling a terrorist he is not a true muslim, he'll relieve you of your noggin, child.

Terrorists are ****ed up people who misinterpret Islam. Any real Muslim will say that what terrorists do is against their religion and that they aren't real Muslims.

Also, yeah, terrorists think we are the enemy, it doesn't mean the whole Islamic religion thinks we are the enemy. Of course someone like you probably doesn't know a single Muslim and probably thinks that all Muslims support terrorism. :rolleyes2

themole
07-14-2004, 11:46 PM
Terrorists are ****ed up people who misinterpret Islam. Any real Muslim will say that what terrorists do is against their religion and that they aren't real Muslims.

Also, yeah, terrorists think we are the enemy, it doesn't mean the whole Islamic religion thinks we are the enemy. Of course someone like you probably doesn't know a single Muslim and probably thinks that all Muslims support terrorism. :rolleyes2

I tend to believe the real muslims are the ones with over 1000 yrs. of bloody history.

The only one I've met was a shiit-ite. Went to JC with him. He threaten to kill me over what I thought was a civil religious discussion. Worked in a freaken Pizza hut here.

t2thejz
07-15-2004, 09:21 AM
I tend to believe the real muslims are the ones with over 1000 yrs. of bloody history.

The only one I've met was a shiit-ite. Went to JC with him. He threaten to kill me over what I thought was a civil religious discussion. Worked in a freaken Pizza hut here.
:roflmao: :roflmao: Thats funny stuff

iceblizzard69
07-15-2004, 09:25 AM
I tend to believe the real muslims are the ones with over 1000 yrs. of bloody history.

The only one I've met was a shiit-ite. Went to JC with him. He threaten to kill me over what I thought was a civil religious discussion. Worked in a freaken Pizza hut here.

Well then you met an @$$hole. I know quite a few Muslims and they are some of the nicest people I know, and they don't hate this country.

ltfinfan
07-15-2004, 11:02 AM
Well then you met an @$$hole. I know quite a few Muslims and they are some of the nicest people I know, and they don't hate this country.


:shakeno:

t2thejz
07-15-2004, 11:20 AM
I agree that most American Muslims are nice people. Most American Muslims I think agree with the war on Iraq and I think that most of them will vote for Bush

PhinPhan1227
07-15-2004, 11:33 AM
Look at Canada...Mainly Quebec, they let their population be taken over by the French eons ago. Now look at them. Their not looking too good. They need to drop that socialist bullcrap

Yeah, but Montreal is such a fun town that it makes up for the French influence. And the French Canadians don't have NEARLY the attitude that the actual French do.

PhinPhan1227
07-15-2004, 11:35 AM
I never said I was against the war. If having a Democratic view means being tolerant, then yes, I have a Democratic view.

Also, the Palestine/Israel issue has nothing to do with this issue. I personally think both sides are wrong but that is a whole other topic.


Correction...both sides have DONE wrong. But Israel is the ONLY one of the two that has tried to make it right. They've offered to do everything but drive themselves into the sea and been to "no" every time.

PhinPhan1227
07-15-2004, 11:38 AM
The most peaceful Muslim is still pro-Palestinian. This doesn't mean they want Israel and Jews to die, but they most certainly don't want Palestine to be destroyed either, and that is why they see Israel and the US the way they do.

It has nothing do with intolerance, it has to do with reality, the real world.

Oliver...


Correction, almost no Muslim is Pro-Palestine. If they were they would have offered to help the Palestinians with relocation before, during, and after they were pushed INTO Palestine. The Palestinians are to the Muslim world as the gypsy's are to the European world. Part of it, but a despised part of it. What almost every Muslim is is Anti-Zionist, which makes them Pro-Palestinian only because of the "enemy of my enemy" effect.

CrunchTime
07-20-2004, 07:49 PM
France is a country who has enjoyed a special relationship with the USA.It was the americans who insisted that France have a seat in the security council.The USA saved France in two world wars yet France does not provide NATO with any troops.It has been consistently an appeaser and "wrong" on political issues throughout recent history yet promotes itself as the leader of Europe and as a world power.Its time to cut off that relationship.

Karl_12
07-21-2004, 01:53 AM
I hate to break up the French bashing party, but you guys do know without the help of the French in the Revolutionary War we would be drinking tea and eating crumpets now.

P4E
07-21-2004, 01:55 AM
I hate to break up the French bashing party, but you guys do know without the help of the French in the Revolutionary War we would be drinking tea and eating crumpets now.
Fine. The present day French SUCK.

Thank you.

PhinPhan1227
07-21-2004, 10:36 AM
I hate to break up the French bashing party, but you guys do know without the help of the French in the Revolutionary War we would be drinking tea and eating crumpets now.

They lent us training early which we should appreciate. Once the war was pretty much already won they lent us aid in the form of a naval blockade to keep the British from retreating. We fought all the major battles for our own freedom however and would STILL have won, although it might have taken more time. We however freed them from their own stupidity, and did so with the blood of our soldiers on THEIR beaches. America would still be in existance without the French(maybe not Lafayette, but he was on his own). France would still be in German hands without America. Call me crazy but I think we are at LEAST even.

t2thejz
07-21-2004, 11:34 AM
I hate to break up the French bashing party, but you guys do know without the help of the French in the Revolutionary War we would be drinking tea and eating crumpets now.
Party pooper

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 11:49 AM
They lent us training early which we should appreciate. Once the war was pretty much already won they lent us aid in the form of a naval blockade to keep the British from retreating. We fought all the major battles for our own freedom however and would STILL have won, although it might have taken more time. We however freed them from their own stupidity, and did so with the blood of our soldiers on THEIR beaches. America would still be in existance without the French(maybe not Lafayette, but he was on his own). France would still be in German hands without America. Call me crazy but I think we are at LEAST even.

Id say we're at least even too.

ohall
07-21-2004, 11:55 AM
I hate to break up the French bashing party, but you guys do know without the help of the French in the Revolutionary War we would be drinking tea and eating crumpets now.

I do believe we have more than repaid them for that. Unlike them we repay countries that help us out in our times of need.

Oliver...