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View Full Version : F 9/11 has MANY credible claims



DolFan31
07-21-2004, 02:53 PM
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes

All backed up by numerous sources that are listed on this webpage.

Kencoboy
07-21-2004, 03:37 PM
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes

All backed up by numerous sources that are listed on this webpage.
The Conseratives can disregard Michael Moore as a left-wing nut all they want. The simple fact of the matter is that this movie would not exist if Bush and all his cronies were not so frigging arrogant and flaunt it in front of the cameras. Ultimately, Moore is only as good as his material, and these jackasses need to be exposed for what they are: self-serving arrogant SOB's that are using their offices to help themselves and their buddies make money at the expense of the American people - and their ultimate sin - at the expense of our sons and daughters lives.:fire:

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 03:50 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.

ohall
07-21-2004, 03:51 PM
The Conseratives can disregard Michael Moore as a left-wing nut all they want. The simple fact of the matter is that this movie would not exist if Bush and all his cronies were not so frigging arrogant and flaunt it in front of the cameras. Ultimately, Moore is only as good as his material, and these jackasses need to be exposed for what they are: self-serving arrogant SOB's that are using their offices to help themselves and their buddies make money at the expense of the American people - and their ultimate sin - at the expense of our sons and daughters lives.:fire:

No this movie wouldn't exist if MM had not become the very thing he said he hates. A money grubbing SOB who only cares about making $ for himself.

Spin all you want to, that's all he cares about. If that weren't the case he'd donate most of the profits from the movie to some tree hugging orginization. Shoot, he's the REP's bets friend. He does no service for DEM's, he only makes them look the fool.

Oliver...

ohall
07-21-2004, 03:52 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.

Yes because there is a LIBERAL BIAS in most of the press and in the arts. Common sense will tell anyone why that is.

Oliver...

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:04 PM
No this movie wouldn't exist if MM had not become the very thing he said he hates. A money grubbing SOB who only cares about making $ for himself.

Spin all you want to, that's all he cares about. If that weren't the case he'd donate most of the profits from the movie to some tree hugging orginization. Shoot, he's the REP's bets friend. He does no service for DEM's, he only makes them look the fool.

Oliver...

Its the other way around, the Reps are his best friends. If it werent for the Reps trying to discredit Moore, the movie wouldve gone almost unnoticed.

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:05 PM
Yes because there is a LIBERAL BIAS in most of the press and in the arts. Common sense will tell anyone why that is.

Oliver...

Keep telling yourselves that :roflmao: :roflmao: :lol: :lol: :shakeno: :rolleyes:

And you tell me Im a liberal spin doctor.

Section126
07-21-2004, 04:16 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.


The actual count is somewhere around 30 to 40 ANTI-Clinton books to about 8 ANTI- Bush books......

Get your facts straight or leave your fantasy world.

Section126
07-21-2004, 04:17 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.


Now for the proper response to this post: :roflmao: :roflmao: :lolcry:

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:18 PM
The actual count is somewhere around 30 to 40 ANTI-Clinton books to about 8 ANTI- Bush books......

Get your facts straight or leave your fantasy world.

Ive already read more than 8 anti-Bush books.

Lets see the facts then 126.

Section126
07-21-2004, 04:18 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.


Now for the proper response to this post: :roflmao: :roflmao: :lolcry:

Section126
07-21-2004, 04:22 PM
Ive already read more than 8 anti-Bush books.

Lets see the facts then 126.


Actually Amazon has about 87 ANTI-Clinton Books..........look it up.....Keep digging your hole deeper.... :tongue:

ohall
07-21-2004, 04:25 PM
Keep telling yourselves that :roflmao: :roflmao: :lol: :lol: :shakeno: :rolleyes:

And you tell me Im a liberal spin doctor.

Yes you are spinning, and I never implied you were good at it. And I'm not surprised you don't want to admit what is common sense to most ppl.

Oliver...

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:36 PM
Actually Amazon has about 87 ANTI-Clinton Books..........look it up.....Keep digging your hole deeper.... :tongue:

And how many anti-Bush books?

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:37 PM
Yes you are spinning, and I never implied you were good at it. And I'm not surprised you don't want to admit what is common sense to most ppl.

Oliver...

You cant speak for most ppl without supplying facts.

ohall
07-21-2004, 04:42 PM
You cant speak for most ppl without supplying facts.

There are years of data that proves the media is dominated by LIBERALS. Nevermind common sense that informs anyone the arts and media live a very liberal type of life. I'm not going to do your homework, nor would I want to waste my time to try and educate you with proof for you to only ignore it because you have gone past the point of no return.

I have no doubt you are happy with LIB hazed world you live in. I don't want to endanger how you see the world. To each their own. Some ppl like reality and some ppl like to live a dream. You can ignore facts and reality for as long as you want to. It's all good to me.

Oliver...

DolFan31
07-21-2004, 04:51 PM
There are years of data that proves the media is dominated by LIBERALS. Nevermind common sense that informs anyone the arts and media live a very liberal type of life. I'm not going to do your homework, nor would I want to waste my time to try and educate you with proof for you to only ignore it because you have gone past the point of no return.

I have no doubt you are happy with LIB hazed world you live in. I don't want to endanger how you see the world. To each their own. Some ppl like reality and some ppl like to live a dream. You can ignore facts and reality for as long as you want to. It's all good to me.

Oliver...

You havent displayed any facts for me to ignore!

See this is what happens when you corner conservatives. They lash out at you and make the debate personal. I still dont see any facts. Are you afraid you cant back up your claims? Come on,what do you have to hide? Stop making excuses for not backing up your claims.

ohall
07-21-2004, 05:12 PM
You havent displayed any facts for me to ignore!

See this is what happens when you corner conservatives. They lash out at you and make the debate personal. I still dont see any facts. Are you afraid you cant back up your claims? Come on,what do you have to hide? Stop making excuses for not backing up your claims.

You mean facts like taking what the President says of context, and out of quote?

Please. Like I said you are too far gone to be worth my time. Maybe there is a more charitable REP out there who thinks you are worth the time.

Again please remember it's only common sense to undertand actors, muscians and the media live liberal type of life styles. If you want to ignore that fact and how it would taint their political POV more power to you man. You can also ignore poll after after poll that says that most of the media describes itself as liberal.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
07-21-2004, 08:17 PM
Well...here's what AOL members think...


Recent AOL Poll and results..

The two poll questions: 1) Do you think Fox News is "fair and balanced"? and 2) Do you think news reporting is generally biased? The results as of this posting (total of 65,936 votes) are:

Question #1:
Yes 52%
No, and I don't like its viewpoint 36%
No, but I like its viewpoint 9%
I have no idea 2%

Question #2:
Yes, to the left 49%
Yes, on both sides 25%
Yes, to the right 17%
No 9%

Granted, more Internet users are Republicans/Conservatives, so the results of an online poll will always reflect that fact.

Bling
07-21-2004, 08:22 PM
Granted, more Internet users are Republicans/Conservatives, so the results of an online poll will always reflect that fact.

Sarcasm, right? :confused:

PhinPhan1227
07-21-2004, 08:26 PM
Sarcasm, right? :confused:


No...fact. Acccording to every poll I've read, as well as common sense, Internet users are made up of more Republicans/Conservatives, than Democrats/Liberals. You can look up the polls for yourself, but just consider the fact that Internet use for most people requires the money to buy a computer and online access. Since much of the Democrat Party consists of poorer people, fewer of them have internet access. The irony of that is that Bush has put forward an initiative to get EVERYONE broadband internet access in the near future. But somehow he hates all Democrats...hmm.

Oops...according to a recent poll, that trend has changed.

"The Online Publishers Association's September 2003 study shows Internet users to be 31% Republican, 31% Democrat, 27% Independent and 11% "other." "

I haven't seen a poll in a few years, but I know that around '99/'00 it was skewed about 60% Republican, and 40% Democrat not counting Independants/Others. I guess Bush's efforts have been fruitful in bringing more access to poorer families.

iceblizzard69
07-21-2004, 11:44 PM
Well...here's what AOL members think...


Recent AOL Poll and results..

The two poll questions: 1) Do you think Fox News is "fair and balanced"? and 2) Do you think news reporting is generally biased? The results as of this posting (total of 65,936 votes) are:

Question #1:
Yes 52%
No, and I don't like its viewpoint 36%
No, but I like its viewpoint 9%
I have no idea 2%

Question #2:
Yes, to the left 49%
Yes, on both sides 25%
Yes, to the right 17%
No 9%

Granted, more Internet users are Republicans/Conservatives, so the results of an online poll will always reflect that fact.


Something like 65% of FOX News viewers will vote for Bush in the upcoming election. I was surprised that it was only 65% but I guess some who won't vote for him watch it because it is such a joke. I bet that at least 90% of those who said FOX News is "fair and balanced" are Conservative. FOX News should change their slogan to "not fair and balanced towards the far right."

PhinPhan1227
07-22-2004, 12:45 AM
Something like 65% of FOX News viewers will vote for Bush in the upcoming election. I was surprised that it was only 65% but I guess some who won't vote for him watch it because it is such a joke. I bet that at least 90% of those who said FOX News is "fair and balanced" are Conservative. FOX News should change their slogan to "not fair and balanced towards the far right."


Lol...they'll do that right after CNN accepts the fact that it stands for the Commie News Network.... :lol:

Kencoboy
07-22-2004, 04:07 AM
There are years of data that proves the media is dominated by LIBERALS. Nevermind common sense that informs anyone the arts and media live a very liberal type of life. I'm not going to do your homework, nor would I want to waste my time to try and educate you with proof for you to only ignore it because you have gone past the point of no return.

I have no doubt you are happy with LIB hazed world you live in. I don't want to endanger how you see the world. To each their own. Some ppl like reality and some ppl like to live a dream. You can ignore facts and reality for as long as you want to. It's all good to me.

Oliver...The liberal bias exists in our media thru necessity. There is a vast difference between what happens in societies with a conservative media system. An extreme case in point is Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi media. When the media is controlled by the government does anyone really know the truth?? In fact the truth is what those in power make it to be. Is that really what we want in a "free" society?? The "liberal" media exists because we have freedom of the press. Are you suggesting that the media should be censored for content. It was the same liberal media you're spouting off about that put Clinton thru the Whitewater wringer and Lewinsky scandal - I remember something about an impeachment hearing. I guess you agreed with them then.

There is a vast difference between the extremists in the parties. Left wing zealots like Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and George McGovern are looked at as tree huggers, quakers, and just plain goofy. A laughable lot - but we sure as hell wouldn't vote for them.

Right wing extremists, on the other hand, like Barry Goldwater, Pat Buchanan, and Richard Nixon are crazy, nuts, and are just one button press away from sending the planet into nuclear oblivion. Lunatics on the fringe.

Are the right wingers the right choice to dominate the media?? I want my "facts" from Pill Poppin' Rush and Soft Porn Peddlin' Bill. You guys want to treat their opinions as fact, and disregard everyone else's as liberal lies. That's a rather simplistic view of the world. And that's the way they want you to think.

Phinzone
07-22-2004, 04:35 AM
The liberal bias exists in our media thru necessity. There is a vast difference between what happens in societies with a conservative media system. An extreme case in point is Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi media. When the media is controlled by the government does anyone really know the truth?? In fact the truth is what those in power make it to be. Is that really what we want in a "free" society?? The "liberal" media exists because we have freedom of the press. Are you suggesting that the media should be censored for content. It was the same liberal media you're spouting off about that put Clinton thru the Whitewater wringer and Lewinsky scandal - I remember something about an impeachment hearing. I guess you agreed with them then.

There is a vast difference between the extremists in the parties. Left wing zealots like Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and George McGovern are looked at as tree huggers, quakers, and just plain goofy. A laughable lot - but we sure as hell wouldn't vote for them.

Right wing extremists, on the other hand, like Barry Goldwater, Pat Buchanan, and Richard Nixon are crazy, nuts, and are just one button press away from sending the planet into nuclear oblivion. Lunatics on the fringe.

Are the right wingers the right choice to dominate the media?? I want my "facts" from Pill Poppin' Rush and Soft Porn Peddlin' Bill. You guys want to treat their opinions as fact, and disregard everyone else's as liberal lies. That's a rather simplistic view of the world. And that's the way they want you to think.

So let me get this straight...........this may take a minute to wrap my head around this......somehow........you think it's a "necessity" that the media be liberal slanted.......because Radical democrats are more dangrous than Radical republicans..................................... :roflmao:

no wait........ :roflmao: ...... man that's really funny i have to say. I thought you were serious there for a minute....because you obviously couldn't have overlooked the fact that the last democratic president was trying to take away our right to own guns while at the same time selling our nuclear technology to China :roflmao: yeah really safe. But that's ok man, because i know you were joking about that....good one. "Give the enemy WMD but take farmer John's away!" "wooohooo! we're safe!"

man I get a kick out of reading stuff like that.

PhinPhan1227
07-22-2004, 03:07 PM
The liberal bias exists in our media thru necessity. There is a vast difference between what happens in societies with a conservative media system. An extreme case in point is Joseph Goebbels and the Nazi media. When the media is controlled by the government does anyone really know the truth?? In fact the truth is what those in power make it to be. Is that really what we want in a "free" society?? The "liberal" media exists because we have freedom of the press. Are you suggesting that the media should be censored for content. It was the same liberal media you're spouting off about that put Clinton thru the Whitewater wringer and Lewinsky scandal - I remember something about an impeachment hearing. I guess you agreed with them then.

.

Ok...so we need a Liberal Media bias to counterbalance the Conservative government. Ok...I can go along with that. But...um...didn't we have the Democrats in power for 8 years? Why didn't the networks lean Conservative during that time? As for Whitewater and Lewinsky...Whitewater recieved MINIMAL coverage. I've seen more stories on Halliburton/Cheney than I did on Whitewater. As for Lewinsky, when have the networks EVER passed up the chance to show porn in Prime Time? Bottom line, I'd like to see the media stick to facts and leave off ALL editorializing, but that has never been the case. The first printing press in America was used to put forward it's bias towards it's own agenda, and nothing has changed since then.

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 10:42 AM
So let me get this straight...........this may take a minute to wrap my head around this......somehow........you think it's a "necessity" that the media be liberal slanted.......because Radical democrats are more dangrous than Radical republicans..................................... :roflmao:

no wait........ :roflmao: ...... man that's really funny i have to say. I thought you were serious there for a minute....because you obviously couldn't have overlooked the fact that the last democratic president was trying to take away our right to own guns while at the same time selling our nuclear technology to China :roflmao: yeah really safe. But that's ok man, because i know you were joking about that....good one. "Give the enemy WMD but take farmer John's away!" "wooohooo! we're safe!"

man I get a kick out of reading stuff like that.

Ya and a Republican President named Ronald Regan sold chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to Iraq and the Contras in Central America.And he said that Radical Republicans are more dangerous than Radical Democrats, not the other way around ;)

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 02:09 PM
Actually Amazon has about 87 ANTI-Clinton Books..........look it up.....Keep digging your hole deeper.... :tongue:

Im still waiting 126..how many anti-Bush books?

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 02:22 PM
You mean facts like taking what the President says of context, and out of quote?

Please. Like I said you are too far gone to be worth my time. Maybe there is a more charitable REP out there who thinks you are worth the time.

Again please remember it's only common sense to undertand actors, muscians and the media live liberal type of life styles. If you want to ignore that fact and how it would taint their political POV more power to you man. You can also ignore poll after after poll that says that most of the media describes itself as liberal.

Oliver...

Stop using excuses not to back up your claims. you know you'd say that to me if I did the same thing. And I corrected myself with the President quote and I apologized.

So you think all actors, musicians and the media are liberal? Thats a really sad, close-minded view of the world, considering Dennis Miller, Arnold Swarzenegger, most athletes(Karl Malone, Greg Anthony, George Allen, Steve Largent, Mike Ditka), FNC(thats the obvious one), the Washington Times, The New York Post, and most country singers all contradict what you said.

Section126
07-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Im still waiting 126..how many anti-Bush books?


I found 22....

Section126
07-23-2004, 02:41 PM
Ya and a Republican President named Ronald Regan sold chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to Iraq and the Contras in Central America.And he said that Radical Republicans are more dangerous than Radical Democrats, not the other way around ;)

LIES

P4E
07-23-2004, 03:27 PM
LIES
I don't know... I think he actually believes that what he said is true. That would simply make it UNBELIEVABLY IGNORANT, STUPID AND SLANDEROUS.
But you should give him a break. He's someone who's sure of what he believes, without the slightest sense of just how much he doesn't know.:rolleyes:

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 03:36 PM
I don't know... I think he actually believes that what he said is true. That would simply make it UNBELIEVABLY IGNORANT, STUPID AND SLANDEROUS.
But you should give him a break. He's someone who's sure of what he believes, without the slightest sense of just how much he doesn't know.:rolleyes:

Hello? Iran-Iraq War? Removal of Iraq from state sponsors of terrorist list in 1982? The support for Iraq during the war(financially and militarily, with intelligence and arms and they could do it when they removed Iraq from that list)?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/08.19B.reagan.iraq.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0609-01.htm
http://www.belleville.com/mld/newsdemocrat/5674107.htm
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/09/1444258
http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html
http://www.sundayherald.com/42647

genx23
07-23-2004, 03:41 PM
LIES

U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29&notFound=true)
-"The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague

Who armed Iraq? (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/02/IN123519.DTL)
- "Phyllis Bennis, author of "Before and After," notes that "the highest quality seed-stock for anthrax germs (along with those of botulism, E. coli, and a host of other deadly diseases) were shipped to Iraq by U.S. companies, legally, under an official U.S. Department of Commerce license throughout the 1980s." A Senate Banking subcommittee report in 1994 confirmed that shipments of biological germ stock continued well into 1989."


I'm sure these will be bashed as more examples of 'liberal bias in the media', but get your head out of the sand. The US was determined to not let Iran win the Iran-Iraq war. What was Donald Rusmfeld doing meeting with Saddam in 1983? Why was Iraq removed from the terrorism list in 1982?

Kencoboy
07-23-2004, 03:53 PM
U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29&notFound=true)
-"The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague

Who armed Iraq? (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/02/IN123519.DTL)
- "Phyllis Bennis, author of "Before and After," notes that "the highest quality seed-stock for anthrax germs (along with those of botulism, E. coli, and a host of other deadly diseases) were shipped to Iraq by U.S. companies, legally, under an official U.S. Department of Commerce license throughout the 1980s." A Senate Banking subcommittee report in 1994 confirmed that shipments of biological germ stock continued well into 1989."


I'm sure these will be bashed as more examples of 'liberal bias in the media', but get your head out of the sand. The US was determined to not let Iran win the Iran-Iraq war. What was Donald Rusmfeld doing meeting with Saddam in 1983? Why was Iraq removed from the terrorism list in 1982?
Because politics makes for strange bedfellows. Saddam must have just turned into the crazed homicidal genocidal maniac in the early 90's.:)

P4E
07-23-2004, 03:53 PM
You just mouthed off in an ignorant and slanderous manner. I'm going to simply quote your words and assume that you have a basic grasp of logic and the English language, and then I am going to ask you to specifically document each of the elements of what YOU stated. Here's what you said:


... a Republican President named Ronald Regan sold chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to Iraq and the Contras in Central America. If you can't, then you really ought to reconsider whether you should be attempting to engage in serious political discussion in public, because your partisanship and ideological fervor have blinded you to the importance of truth and accuracy. There is nothing more insulting to the freedom of speech we enjoy than those who use it as a means to spread falsehoods and ignorance.

Get to work now and report back to us substantively and specifically. It is a given that you will fail in this, of course; I'm just waiting to see if you'll admit you were talking out of your azz.

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 03:56 PM
You just mouthed off in an ignorant and slanderous manner. I'm going to simply quote your words and assume that you have a basic grasp of logic and the English language, and then I am going to ask you to specifically document each of the elements of what YOU stated. Here's what you said:

If you can't, then you really ought to reconsider whether you should be attempting to engage in serious political discussion in public, because your partisanship and ideological fervor have blinded you to the importance of truth and accuracy. There is nothing more insulting to the freedom of speech we enjoy than those who use it as a means to spread falsehoods and ignorance.

Get to work now and report back to us substantively and specifically. It is a given that you will fail in this, of course; I'm just waiting to see if you'll admit you were talking out of your azz.

:shakeno: you're telling me what Im doing what others do on a daily basis on here? I went out of my way already and did my homework for you gusy by listing my sources, as others do not do often.

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 04:01 PM
Because politics makes for strange bedfellows. Saddam must have just turned into the crazed homicidal genocidal maniac in the early 90's.:)

I guess so.. :hmmm:

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 04:04 PM
I found 22....

Show us.

ABrownLamp
07-23-2004, 04:13 PM
I think one of the most telling aspects of Bush in F 9/11 was him sitting there in a classroom full of children after having been told the US is under attack...for 20 minutes, not knowing what to do. I am a DEM and I understand that many facts were skewed in the movie to make the Bushs and the Cheneys look like scumbags, but that portion of the movie just summed it up. Say what you want about Clinton and his infidelity and Whitewater, Clinton was a leader. Bush is just some dude born into wealth. He's not totally stupid, he's just a guy. Not a man built to lead the free world.

Listen to him talk, listen to him say "nucyuler" like an idiot. Listen to him give choppy speeches (well well welll well, I, I, I, just, uh...) and base his decisions on his faith. This is not a man I want leading my country into anything.

DolFan31
07-23-2004, 04:21 PM
I think one of the most telling aspects of Bush in F 9/11 was him sitting there in a classroom full of children after having been told the US is under attack...for 20 minutes, not knowing what to do. I am a DEM and I understand that many facts were skewed in the movie to make the Bushs and the Cheneys look like scumbags, but that portion of the movie just summed it up. Say what you want about Clinton and his infidelity and Whitewater, Clinton was a leader. Bush is just some dude born into wealth. He's not totally stupid, he's just a guy. Not a man built to lead the free world.

Listen to him talk, listen to him say "nucyuler" like an idiot. Listen to him give choppy speeches (well well welll well, I, I, I, just, uh...) and base his decisions on his faith. This is not a man I want leading my country into anything.

Which is why you have the RIGHT TO VOTE him out of office. :cool:

To be fair though, what wouldve Bush done considering he was in front of school children and they couldve/wouldve been frightened. Actually, it was probably a smart thing not to do anything at the moment. It couldve screwed up his Photo Op!

ABrownLamp
07-23-2004, 04:28 PM
Which is why you have the RIGHT TO VOTE him out of office. :cool:

To be fair though, what wouldve Bush done considering he was in front of school children and they couldve/wouldve been frightened. Actually, it was probably a smart thing not to do anything at the moment. It couldve screwed up his Photo Op!

How would the children know why he had to leave? What would they be frightened of? He needed to do what the leader of the free world should do and say hey, maybe there are more important things than the emotions of kindergardeners right now. Like I said, he's not a leader. He can't think without someone else holding his hand like in that situation.

iceblizzard69
07-23-2004, 04:45 PM
LIES

I'm sure you also believe that the picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam Hussein's hand in the 80s was photoshopped and never happened. :rolleyes: You probably also think it is a lie when people say that the US supplied bin Laden with weapons. You need to face the truth. The US sold weapons to Iraq in the 80s. Yes, and Ronald Reagan supported an overthrow of a democracy in Nicaragua. You may not want to believe these facts, and I wish that this country never did some of these things, bad sadly they are true. :(

ohall
07-23-2004, 04:54 PM
I think one of the most telling aspects of Bush in F 9/11 was him sitting there in a classroom full of children after having been told the US is under attack...for 20 minutes, not knowing what to do. I am a DEM and I understand that many facts were skewed in the movie to make the Bushs and the Cheneys look like scumbags, but that portion of the movie just summed it up. Say what you want about Clinton and his infidelity and Whitewater, Clinton was a leader. Bush is just some dude born into wealth. He's not totally stupid, he's just a guy. Not a man built to lead the free world.

Listen to him talk, listen to him say "nucyuler" like an idiot. Listen to him give choppy speeches (well well welll well, I, I, I, just, uh...) and base his decisions on his faith. This is not a man I want leading my country into anything.

It was 7 minutes. I'm amazed as each month passes another minute is added on it. What was he supposed to do rather than to sit there and wait to be told exactly what was going on?

The rest of your post is just proof of the ELITE LIBERAL you are. You actually think Bush is the one who talks funny. As far as I'm concerned Kerry's Boston accent is a real pain in the azz to me. I love Bush's TEXAS accent. It makes me feel like John Wayne is President. That's a good thing to a REP like me.

Ride em' Cowboy!

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
07-23-2004, 05:34 PM
Hello? Iran-Iraq War? Removal of Iraq from state sponsors of terrorist list in 1982? The support for Iraq during the war(financially and militarily, with intelligence and arms and they could do it when they removed Iraq from that list)?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/08.19B.reagan.iraq.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0609-01.htm
http://www.belleville.com/mld/newsdemocrat/5674107.htm
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/09/1444258
http://www.counterpunch.org/dixon06172004.html
http://www.sundayherald.com/42647


Could you identify when we sold nuclear weapons to Iraq or the Contra's?

ABrownLamp
07-23-2004, 05:42 PM
It was 7 minutes. I'm amazed as each month passes another minute is added on it. What was he supposed to do rather than to sit there and wait to be told exactly what was going on?

The rest of your post is just proof of the ELITE LIBERAL you are. You actually think Bush is the one who talks funny. As far as I'm concerned Kerry's Boston accent is a real pain in the azz to me. I love Bush's TEXAS accent. It makes me feel like John Wayne is President. That's a good thing to a REP like me.

Ride em' Cowboy!

Oliver...
The country is under attack and our leader needs to be told that he should leave? Does he really need more information than that? What is he supposed to do? No you're right. He should have sat there.

Kerry's Boston accent is barely detectable. It's not JFK we're talking about here. It's not Bush's southern accent that bothers me. It's his bumbling and mispronounciations. Don't tell me you think he's a good speaker.

And I'm not sure about this, but wan't George born and raised in the richest part of Connecticut? If that's the case, where did that southern accent come from anyway?

PhinPhan1227
07-23-2004, 05:54 PM
The country is under attack and our leader needs to be told that he should leave? Does he really need more information than that? What is he supposed to do? No you're right. He should have sat there.

Kerry's Boston accent is barely detectable. It's not JFK we're talking about here. It's not Bush's southern accent that bothers me. It's his bumbling and mispronounciations. Don't tell me you think he's a good speaker.

And I'm not sure about this, but wan't George born and raised in the richest part of Connecticut? If that's the case, where did that southern accent come from anyway?

When the first plane hit it was assumed to be an accident, NOT an attack. As for Bush's accent, I'll admit that his public speaking isn't great, but you really need to live in Texas before you pass judgement. A lot of the mispronounciations are a result of that. As for public speaking making a great President,m Lincoln was considered a backwoods hick by his contemporaries because of his rural accent and mannerisms.

ohall
07-23-2004, 08:57 PM
The country is under attack and our leader needs to be told that he should leave? Does he really need more information than that? What is he supposed to do? No you're right. He should have sat there.

Kerry's Boston accent is barely detectable. It's not JFK we're talking about here. It's not Bush's southern accent that bothers me. It's his bumbling and mispronounciations. Don't tell me you think he's a good speaker.

And I'm not sure about this, but wan't George born and raised in the richest part of Connecticut? If that's the case, where did that southern accent come from anyway?

Why should he have left? See this is the part I don't get. There was no chance any plane was going to get near where the President was at that moment. Where ever the President is it's the safest place on Earth at that moment. 7 minutes didn't mean a darn thing. Anyone that implies he should have done something else or just got up and left is just pushing an agenda. 20/20 hindsight is such a cheap and wonderful thing for some ppl. It's not like he could have decided to ground all the planes in the USA any faster than he did. Someone needs time to decide to do something like that. It's not like there was a previous 9/11 attack in our nations history to base his actions on. Yes he should have just sat there until he was told what exactly was going on. Him getting up and leaving wouldn't have changed a darn thing.

Yes I believe Bush #43 was born in the north east, but did move to TEXAS when he was 8 or 9-years old. He is a TEXAN. His mispronunciation is his act. It's how he got where he is. When he wants to speak with perfect grammar and without stumbling over words he most certainly can do that. I'm sorry you've missed these speeches. Further I saw Ronald Reagan stumble and bumble for 8-years and he is widely known as the GREAT communicator. It's all in the eye of the beholder IMO.

I can't stand Kerry's accent, because as far as I can tell he's is a blue blooded snob. At least that's how he sounds, and acts. I don’t like ppl like that let alone politicians.

Oliver...

Kencoboy
07-24-2004, 04:06 AM
Why should he have left? See this is the part I don't get. There was no chance any plane was going to get near where the President was at that moment. Where ever the President is it's the safest place on Earth at that moment. 7 minutes didn't mean a darn thing. Anyone that implies he should have done something else or just got up and left is just pushing an agenda. 20/20 hindsight is such a cheap and wonderful thing for some ppl. It's not like he could have decided to ground all the planes in the USA any faster than he did. Someone needs time to decide to do something like that. It's not like there was a previous 9/11 attack in our nations history to base his actions on. Yes he should have just sat there until he was told what exactly was going on. Him getting up and leaving wouldn't have changed a darn thing.

Yes I believe Bush #43 was born in the north east, but did move to TEXAS when he was 8 or 9-years old. He is a TEXAN. His mispronunciation is his act. It's how he got where he is. When he wants to speak with perfect grammar and without stumbling over words he most certainly can do that. I'm sorry you've missed these speeches. Further I saw Ronald Reagan stumble and bumble for 8-years and he is widely known as the GREAT communicator. It's all in the eye of the beholder IMO.

I can't stand Kerry's accent, because as far as I can tell he's is a blue blooded snob. At least that's how he sounds, and acts. I don’t like ppl like that let alone politicians.

Oliver...
Let me get this straight. Earlier this week I was biased against southerners because I used one of Dubya's fine examples of prose. Now you can't stand Kerry's accent because he sounds like a blue blooded snob?? Who's biased now??

George stumbles and bumbles because that's what he is: a stumbler and bumbler. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. These guys are everywhere, not just in Texas politics. And we've got one in the White House. If this is his act, look out Will Ferrell.

By the way, George W. is where he is because he rode his daddy's coattails.

ohall
07-24-2004, 12:35 PM
Let me get this straight. Earlier this week I was biased against southerners because I used one of Dubya's fine examples of prose. Now you can't stand Kerry's accent because he sounds like a blue blooded snob?? Who's biased now??

George stumbles and bumbles because that's what he is: a stumbler and bumbler. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. These guys are everywhere, not just in Texas politics. And we've got one in the White House. If this is his act, look out Will Ferrell.

By the way, George W. is where he is because he rode his daddy's coattails.

I never said I wasn't biased against Kerry. I can't stand the guy. He is everything I hate in politicians. Someone who is filthy rich who talk about helping the AVG guy as he is driven home each night to one of his dozen mansions.

He's a hypocrit x's 1,000

I sure hope Kerry takes Bush lightly like Gore did. If he does Bush is going win every debate against Kerry like Bush did aganst Gore. Man it would be GREAT to hear Kerry moan and groan like Gore did 4-years ago. That would be some GREAT TV.

If one of these guys rode anyone's coat tails it would be Kerry riding Kennedy's coat tails. No politician gets where they are without another politicians help. Welcome to what most ppl call reality.

Oliver...

ABrownLamp
07-24-2004, 01:52 PM
I never said I wasn't biased against Kerry. I can't stand the guy. He is everything I hate in politicians. Someone who is filthy rich who talk about helping the AVG guy as he is driven home each night to one of his dozen mansions.

He's a hypocrit x's 1,000

I sure hope Kerry takes Bush lightly like Gore did. If he does Bush is going win every debate against Kerry like Bush did aganst Gore. Man it would be GREAT to hear Kerry moan and groan like Gore did 4-years ago. That would be some GREAT TV.

If one of these guys rode anyone's coat tails it would be Kerry riding Kennedy's coat tails. No politician gets where they are without another politicians help. Welcome to what most ppl call reality.

Oliver...
Speaking of hypocrisy. It's not as if Bush earned any of his money. And he doesn't represent the avg worker any better than Kerry. I don't know about you but my father isn't a multimillionnaire who was head of the CIA, ambassdor to China, Vice President of the US for 8 years, and President for 4... I think he got a little more help than Kerry.

Dude, Bush can't even speak for himself before an investigation committe. I can't wait for the debates either. It's going to be hilarious. I hope it's a forum where they can ask each other questions, instead of rehearsed responses to Sam Donaldson or someone. That way, Bush will be exposed for the true imbecile he really is

Section126
07-24-2004, 06:32 PM
Speaking of hypocrisy. It's not as if Bush earned any of his money. And he doesn't represent the avg worker any better than Kerry. I don't know about you but my father isn't a multimillionnaire who was head of the CIA, ambassdor to China, Vice President of the US for 8 years, and President for 4... I think he got a little more help than Kerry.

Dude, Bush can't even speak for himself before an investigation committe. I can't wait for the debates either. It's going to be hilarious. I hope it's a forum where they can ask each other questions, instead of rehearsed responses to Sam Donaldson or someone. That way, Bush will be exposed for the true imbecile he really is


Will you just stop it?

Bush DID earn his OWN money......He brokered upwards of 15 oil company sales that he netted around 4 million dollars for...........His high School friend helped him get the connection....not Daddy.........The Texas Rangers deal was entirely of his doing.......

Kerry on the other hand...married into money......TWICE.

As for Bush being an imbecile......his transcripts are no secret.....and I love how liberals say he was a "C" student when if you got his exact scores and applied them to today's curves...Bush would be a SOLID "B" student...He also has a MBA from HARVARD and a graduate degree from Yale......while his father was a measily congressman........

I hate to break it to you, but having a congressman for a father is nothing......it will not get you those degrees. For example......Look at Chelsey Clinton and Al Gore Jr......both of them had great connections, and both of them have done nothing.......and what about the countless scores of Kennedy kids who are worthless?

I just find it funny that you find a man that is probably 5 times as intelligent as you to be an imbecile.

ohall
07-24-2004, 11:21 PM
Speaking of hypocrisy. It's not as if Bush earned any of his money. And he doesn't represent the avg worker any better than Kerry. I don't know about you but my father isn't a multimillionnaire who was head of the CIA, ambassdor to China, Vice President of the US for 8 years, and President for 4... I think he got a little more help than Kerry.

Dude, Bush can't even speak for himself before an investigation committe. I can't wait for the debates either. It's going to be hilarious. I hope it's a forum where they can ask each other questions, instead of rehearsed responses to Sam Donaldson or someone. That way, Bush will be exposed for the true imbecile he really is

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Bush is going to run all over Kerry in the deabtes. Kerry isn't half the deabter Gore is, and Gore was horrible when he went up against Bush. A straight talking person who doesn't talk down to ppl will always do better than ELITEST like Kerry and Gore. Most ppl can't stand ppl like Gore and Kerry.

Oliver...

Karl_12
07-25-2004, 08:31 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Bush is going to run all over Kerry in the deabtes. Kerry isn't half the deabter Gore is, and Gore was horrible when he went up against Bush. A straight talking person who doesn't talk down to ppl will always do better than ELITEST like Kerry and Gore. Most ppl can't stand ppl like Gore and Kerry.

Oliver...All the networks said he is a great debater. He is intelligent, articulate, and is not afraid of Bush. Bush might have gone to Yale, but he is horrible at articulating. He will try to label Kerry as an un-American liberal but Kerry will throw any attack against him right back in Bushes face. I find it funny on how republicans label Kerry as an elitist while Bush is also one.

Bush isn't nickel and dimming it either, and if you call Gore and Kerry an elitist then you have to call Bush one. He lives in a ranch in North Crawford Texas he isn't living in a trailer park. Bush also makes himself out to be a man of the people but he is just as rich as Kerry. But I do have to give the Bush team credit, how they can make any candidate going against them seem like a crazy elitist rich liberal; while making Bush seem like a blue collar man of the people is truly amazing.

And based on the total election results in 2000, more people hated people like Bush and Cheney more.

DolFan31
07-25-2004, 08:39 PM
Will you just stop it?

Bush DID earn his OWN money......He brokered upwards of 15 oil company sales that he netted around 4 million dollars for...........His high School friend helped him get the connection....not Daddy.........The Texas Rangers deal was entirely of his doing.......


Are you talking about that friend of his who also had business ties to the Saudi-Bin Laden Group of Saudi Arabia?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/04/27/james_bath/
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/archive/scoop/stories/86/29/200208282218.a20163e3.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_George_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_george_w__b.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/INL110A.html
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_3-12-2002_pg3_8
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html

PhinPhan1227
07-25-2004, 08:59 PM
Are you talking about that friend of his who also had business ties to the Saudi-Bin Laden Group of Saudi Arabia?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/04/27/james_bath/
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/archive/scoop/stories/86/29/200208282218.a20163e3.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_George_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_george_w__b.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/INL110A.html
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_3-12-2002_pg3_8
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Hatfield-R-091901/hatfield-r-091901.html


Why is it that Saddam was clean because he hated Osama, and Osama hated him, but his family is apprently dirty even though they hate Osama, and Osama hates them? Double standard?

DolFan31
07-25-2004, 09:31 PM
Why is it that Saddam was clean because he hated Osama, and Osama hated him, but his family is apprently dirty even though they hate Osama, and Osama hates them? Double standard?

Theyre all dirty.

PhinPhan1227
07-26-2004, 01:57 AM
Theyre all dirty.


If one is no worse than the other than why do you care who wins the election?

DolFan31
07-26-2004, 11:27 AM
If one is no worse than the other than why do you care who wins the election?

Because I, like most voters, see Kerry as a lesser-of-the-two-evils in this election compared to Bush. Kerry, unfourtantely, is my only real alternative to defeating Bush. Wouldve liked Dean, Edwards, Kucinich better, but its too late now. I honestly dont like Kerry as a cannidate(could care less about how much money he makes, theyre all rich), but I dont want Bush for more years. And I really dont think Kerry could do no worse than Bush has.

PhinPhan1227
07-26-2004, 03:22 PM
Because I, like most voters, see Kerry as a lesser-of-the-two-evils in this election compared to Bush. Kerry, unfourtantely, is my only real alternative to defeating Bush. Wouldve liked Dean, Edwards, Kucinich better, but its too late now. I honestly dont like Kerry as a cannidate(could care less about how much money he makes, theyre all rich), but I dont want Bush for more years. And I really dont think Kerry could do no worse than Bush has.


Than maybe you could help me out. I see it as a VERY likely situation that Kerry could win. As such, I would love to have someone tell me WHY Kerry should be President. Because I've never heard one reason to vote for Kerry that didn't include reasons for voting against Bush. Sorry, but after Ray Lucas and Brian Griese, I have come to realize that no matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS get worse.

DolFan31
07-26-2004, 03:42 PM
Than maybe you could help me out. I see it as a VERY likely situation that Kerry could win. As such, I would love to have someone tell me WHY Kerry should be President. Because I've never heard one reason to vote for Kerry that didn't include reasons for voting against Bush. Sorry, but after Ray Lucas and Brian Griese, I have come to realize that no matter how bad things look, they can ALWAYS get worse.

Asked for and recieved:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances
The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike at us. As president, John Kerry will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its allies.


Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats
John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.


Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal
The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.


Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil
To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.
Cut Your Premiums
John Kerry and John Edwards will cut family premiums by up to $1,000. That's $1,000 in real savings people can use to buy groceries, pay the bills, and save for their children's future. And that will mean more jobs and more competitive American businesses.

Cover All Americans With Quality Care
The Kerry-Edwards plan will give every American access to the range of high-quality, affordable plans available to members of Congress and extend coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every American child. Their plan will also fight to erase the health disparities that persist along racial and economic lines, ensure that people with HIV and AIDS have the care they need, end discrimination against Americans with disabilities and mental illnesses, and ensure equal treatment for mental illness in our health system.

Provide Affordable Prescriptions
The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada, overhauling the Medicare drug plan, ensuring low-cost drugs, and ending artificial barriers to generic drug competition.

Cut Waste And Inefficiency
Today, approximately 25 percent of health care costs are wasted on paperwork and administrative processing. The Kerry-Edwards plan harnesses American ingenuity to cut waste, save billions, and take new steps to ensure patient privacy.

Explore And Develop New Energy Sources
Tomorrow's energy economy will be fueled by new energy sources. The Kerry-Edwards plan will invest in the research and exploration needed to turn ideas into fuel and develop renewable energy sources.

Develop Tomorrow's Technology Today
Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, America will take the lead in developing the new technology and production methods needed to ensure that resources such as coal and natural gas are used more efficiently and cleanly, and fully integrated into the New Energy Economy.

Track And Stop Terrorists
Many of the intelligence problems that allowed terrorists to slip into our country before 9/11 have not been addressed. John Kerry and John Edwards will improve our ability to gather, analyze, and share information so we can track down and stop terrorists before they cause harm.

Protect Our Borders And Shores
Today, our borders, our ports, and our airports are not as secure as they must be. John Kerry and John Edwards will make our airports, seaports, and borders more secure without intruding upon personal liberties.

Harden Vulnerable Targets
Chemical industry lobbying has kept the Bush administration from strengthening security at chemical plants, where an attack could endanger 1 million Americans. John Kerry and John Edwards will always put Americans' safety ahead of big business interests and take strong measures to harden likely targets-including nuclear plants, trains, and subways-against possible attack.

Improve Domestic Readiness
Our first defenders will respond to any attack with courage and heroism-but they also need the equipment and manpower to do the job. John Kerry and John Edwards will back up their words with resources and ensure that America's first responders have everything they need to protect their communities. Guard Liberty. We must always remember that terrorists do not just target our lives - they target our way of life. John Kerry and John Edwards believe in an America that is safe and free, and they will protect our personal liberties as well as our personal security.

Meet Our Responsibilities To Our Schools
John Kerry and John Edwards will establish a National Education Trust Fund to ensure that schools always get the funding they need. They will also ensure that No Child Left Behind works for schools, states, and teachers by rewarding those who meet higher standards and rewarding schools that turn around and improve.

Continue Reform And Put A Great Teacher In Every Classroom
Great teachers are the foundation of a great school. As president, John Kerry will enact a new bargain that offers teachers more, including better training and better pay in troubled schools, and asks for more in return, including fast, fair ways to make sure that teachers who don't belong in the classroom don't stay there.

Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through "School's Open 'Til Six"
John Kerry and John Edwards are strong supporters of after-school programs. They give students extra help, keep them out of trouble, and offer peace of mind to working parents. The Kerry-Edwards "School's Open 'Til 'Six" initiative will offer after-school opportunities to 3.5 million children, through programs that are open until 6 p.m. and offer safe transportation for children.

Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong Learning
As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

Create Cleaner, Greener Communities
Together, we can improve the environment in backyards and communities across America. John Kerry and John Edwards will revitalize contaminated industrial sites, get toxics out of communities, guarantee our children access to clean, safe parks and baseball fields, and take on traffic congestion and sprawl.

Enact A Conservation Covenant With America
John Kerry and John Edwards believe that Americans are united in our respect for the land. They will enact a Conservation Covenant with America to ensure balanced protection for our public lands and adequate resources to enhance our national parks.

Protect Our Health By Reducing Dangerous Air Emissions
As president, John Kerry will reverse the Bush-Cheney rollbacks to our Clean Air Act, plug loopholes in the law, take aggressive action to stop acid rain, and use innovative, job-creating programs to reduce mercury emissions and other emissions that contribute to global warming.

Restore America's Waters
Today, approximately 45 percent of our nation's waterways do not meet the "drinkable, swimable and fishable" standard set out by the Clean Water Act 30 years ago. As president, John Kerry will implement a "Restore America's Waters" campaign, an integrated approach to protecting our precious, limited water resources. He will work with states on the toughest water quality challenges, restore damaged watersheds, protect wetlands, invest in our waterfronts and coastal communities, and protect our oceans.

Improve Veterans' Health Care
Today, nearly one-fifth of American veterans lack full health care coverage, and thousands of disabled veterans are being unfairly taxed on their disabilities. As president, John Kerry will provide mandatory funding of veterans' health care and ensure concurrent receipt to end the Disabled Veterans' Tax.

Improve Veterans' Quality Of Life
Today, America's veterans suffer from high rates of homelessness and a Veterans' Administration (VA) that in too many cases remains unresponsive and too complicated. As president, John Kerry will ensure that veterans have the resources they need to find homes and jobs, while streamlining the VA to make it more responsive to veterans' needs.

Keep Faith With Those Who Serve Today
By enacting a Military Family Bill of Rights, John Kerry and John Edwards will ensure that today's men and women in uniform receive adequate pay and full health care coverage (including access to TRICARE), while ensuring that our military is never overstretched and that our troops are always fully equipped for the missions they face.

finfan54
07-27-2004, 12:19 AM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.


I dont care anyways, let them make asses of themselves. the ones who buy into crap like that are liberals or people who end up not voting anyways.

BTW, i saw Micheal Moore at the DNC tonight, he didnt look happy. but then again, he is not a happy guy to begin with. I think he is going to die soon he looks so bad.

PhinPhan1227
07-27-2004, 12:28 AM
Asked for and recieved:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances
The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike at us. As president, John Kerry will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its allies.


Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats
John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.


Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal
The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.


Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil
To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.
Cut Your Premiums
John Kerry and John Edwards will cut family premiums by up to $1,000. That's $1,000 in real savings people can use to buy groceries, pay the bills, and save for their children's future. And that will mean more jobs and more competitive American businesses.

Cover All Americans With Quality Care
The Kerry-Edwards plan will give every American access to the range of high-quality, affordable plans available to members of Congress and extend coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every American child. Their plan will also fight to erase the health disparities that persist along racial and economic lines, ensure that people with HIV and AIDS have the care they need, end discrimination against Americans with disabilities and mental illnesses, and ensure equal treatment for mental illness in our health system.

Provide Affordable Prescriptions
The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada, overhauling the Medicare drug plan, ensuring low-cost drugs, and ending artificial barriers to generic drug competition.

Cut Waste And Inefficiency
Today, approximately 25 percent of health care costs are wasted on paperwork and administrative processing. The Kerry-Edwards plan harnesses American ingenuity to cut waste, save billions, and take new steps to ensure patient privacy.

Explore And Develop New Energy Sources
Tomorrow's energy economy will be fueled by new energy sources. The Kerry-Edwards plan will invest in the research and exploration needed to turn ideas into fuel and develop renewable energy sources.

Develop Tomorrow's Technology Today
Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, America will take the lead in developing the new technology and production methods needed to ensure that resources such as coal and natural gas are used more efficiently and cleanly, and fully integrated into the New Energy Economy.

Track And Stop Terrorists
Many of the intelligence problems that allowed terrorists to slip into our country before 9/11 have not been addressed. John Kerry and John Edwards will improve our ability to gather, analyze, and share information so we can track down and stop terrorists before they cause harm.

Protect Our Borders And Shores
Today, our borders, our ports, and our airports are not as secure as they must be. John Kerry and John Edwards will make our airports, seaports, and borders more secure without intruding upon personal liberties.

Harden Vulnerable Targets
Chemical industry lobbying has kept the Bush administration from strengthening security at chemical plants, where an attack could endanger 1 million Americans. John Kerry and John Edwards will always put Americans' safety ahead of big business interests and take strong measures to harden likely targets-including nuclear plants, trains, and subways-against possible attack.

Improve Domestic Readiness
Our first defenders will respond to any attack with courage and heroism-but they also need the equipment and manpower to do the job. John Kerry and John Edwards will back up their words with resources and ensure that America's first responders have everything they need to protect their communities. Guard Liberty. We must always remember that terrorists do not just target our lives - they target our way of life. John Kerry and John Edwards believe in an America that is safe and free, and they will protect our personal liberties as well as our personal security.

Meet Our Responsibilities To Our Schools
John Kerry and John Edwards will establish a National Education Trust Fund to ensure that schools always get the funding they need. They will also ensure that No Child Left Behind works for schools, states, and teachers by rewarding those who meet higher standards and rewarding schools that turn around and improve.

Continue Reform And Put A Great Teacher In Every Classroom
Great teachers are the foundation of a great school. As president, John Kerry will enact a new bargain that offers teachers more, including better training and better pay in troubled schools, and asks for more in return, including fast, fair ways to make sure that teachers who don't belong in the classroom don't stay there.

Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through "School's Open 'Til Six"
John Kerry and John Edwards are strong supporters of after-school programs. They give students extra help, keep them out of trouble, and offer peace of mind to working parents. The Kerry-Edwards "School's Open 'Til 'Six" initiative will offer after-school opportunities to 3.5 million children, through programs that are open until 6 p.m. and offer safe transportation for children.

Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong Learning
As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

Create Cleaner, Greener Communities
Together, we can improve the environment in backyards and communities across America. John Kerry and John Edwards will revitalize contaminated industrial sites, get toxics out of communities, guarantee our children access to clean, safe parks and baseball fields, and take on traffic congestion and sprawl.

Enact A Conservation Covenant With America
John Kerry and John Edwards believe that Americans are united in our respect for the land. They will enact a Conservation Covenant with America to ensure balanced protection for our public lands and adequate resources to enhance our national parks.

Protect Our Health By Reducing Dangerous Air Emissions
As president, John Kerry will reverse the Bush-Cheney rollbacks to our Clean Air Act, plug loopholes in the law, take aggressive action to stop acid rain, and use innovative, job-creating programs to reduce mercury emissions and other emissions that contribute to global warming.

Restore America's Waters
Today, approximately 45 percent of our nation's waterways do not meet the "drinkable, swimable and fishable" standard set out by the Clean Water Act 30 years ago. As president, John Kerry will implement a "Restore America's Waters" campaign, an integrated approach to protecting our precious, limited water resources. He will work with states on the toughest water quality challenges, restore damaged watersheds, protect wetlands, invest in our waterfronts and coastal communities, and protect our oceans.

Improve Veterans' Health Care
Today, nearly one-fifth of American veterans lack full health care coverage, and thousands of disabled veterans are being unfairly taxed on their disabilities. As president, John Kerry will provide mandatory funding of veterans' health care and ensure concurrent receipt to end the Disabled Veterans' Tax.

Improve Veterans' Quality Of Life
Today, America's veterans suffer from high rates of homelessness and a Veterans' Administration (VA) that in too many cases remains unresponsive and too complicated. As president, John Kerry will ensure that veterans have the resources they need to find homes and jobs, while streamlining the VA to make it more responsive to veterans' needs.

Keep Faith With Those Who Serve Today
By enacting a Military Family Bill of Rights, John Kerry and John Edwards will ensure that today's men and women in uniform receive adequate pay and full health care coverage (including access to TRICARE), while ensuring that our military is never overstretched and that our troops are always fully equipped for the missions they face.


Thanks...it's lovely to know what Kerry WANTS to do. Could you tell me what Kerry has DONE to make me believe he can actually accomplish these goals?

PhinPhan1227
07-27-2004, 12:34 AM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.


How many Vietnam Veteran Websites are there against Bush? I did a Google search and found 4. How many are there against Kerry? I stopped counting after the third page. There's a reason for this....

PhinPhan1227
07-27-2004, 12:36 AM
Ya and a Republican President named Ronald Regan sold chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to Iraq and the Contras in Central America.And he said that Radical Republicans are more dangerous than Radical Democrats, not the other way around ;)


I'm also still waiting to hear exactly when we sold nukes to Iraq and the Contra's.

finfan54
07-27-2004, 12:39 AM
Micheal Moore couldnt debate a fly. and he knows it. just go on tour with linda ronsfat already.

MDFINFAN
07-27-2004, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DolFan31
Ya and a Republican President named Ronald Regan sold chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to Iraq and the Contras in Central America.And he said that Radical Republicans are more dangerous than Radical Democrats, not the other way around


LIES

The only lie in there Sec126 is the Nukes, we did sell the chems and weapons to those groups....Oliver if he could tell the truth, could confirm this. But you know it's okay for Repub's to do this and cover it up. I was in the Mililiary at the time..We had a private war going on inside the white house, that's why Oliver shredded documents, paper trail..I don't know of any Officer who could have pulled that one off and not be in jail...and I was an Officer...you had to be protecting the president to get away with that one....and yes..there's just things I can't say here...

Section126
07-27-2004, 06:15 PM
We did not sell Chemical weapons to anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Chem/Bio weapons that Iraq had were provided by the russians........

We helped in an advisory capacity to the Iraqis in the Iraq/Iran war.......

BTW, did you even know that Reagan signed an executive order to make the transfer of WMD to any country outside NATO illegal?

MDFINFAN
07-27-2004, 06:27 PM
We did not sell Chemical weapons to anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Chem/Bio weapons that Iraq had were provided by the russians........

We helped in an advisory capacity to the Iraqis in the Iraq/Iran war.......

BTW, did you even know that Reagan signed an executive order to make the transfer of WMD to any country outside NATO illegal?

Yes we did Section, I know you don't want to believe it, but we do, do things underground. In unofficial wars or engagement, it's not generally made public the things we do behind the scene..Black missions and programs are purposely kept in the dark for a reason..that's why you didn't know about the steath fighters until the gulf war, even though we've had them since the 70's. Hopefully we meet one day Section and I'll explain some things to you..Can't post them here.

PhinPhan1227
07-27-2004, 07:26 PM
Yes we did Section, I know you don't want to believe it, but we do, do things underground. In unofficial wars or engagement, it's not generally made public the things we do behind the scene..Black missions and programs are purposely kept in the dark for a reason..that's why you didn't know about the steath fighters until the gulf war, even though we've had them since the 70's. Hopefully we meet one day Section and I'll explain some things to you..Can't post them here.


Well, that convinces me. I'm voting for Kerry because the little bug eyed green guys told me to :lol: :lol: :lol: :roflmao: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TarHeelFinFan
07-27-2004, 07:32 PM
How many books are anti-Clinton? about like 4-5

How many books are anti-Bush? about like 20-40

Theres a reason for this.
You don't read much do you?

Section126
07-27-2004, 07:55 PM
Yes we did Section, I know you don't want to believe it, but we do, do things underground. In unofficial wars or engagement, it's not generally made public the things we do behind the scene..Black missions and programs are purposely kept in the dark for a reason..that's why you didn't know about the steath fighters until the gulf war, even though we've had them since the 70's. Hopefully we meet one day Section and I'll explain some things to you..Can't post them here.

Okay...I'm sold....

I want these questions answered:

1. What is thr truth about UFO's?

2. Does Bigfoot exist?

3. Does the Lochness Monster exist?

4. Are the Black Helicopters real?

5. Are crop circles landing strips for ET spacecraft?

DolFan31
07-27-2004, 08:08 PM
I'm also still waiting to hear exactly when we sold nukes to Iraq and the Contra's.

Ok we sold chemical and biological weapons to Iraq and the Contras sometime in the 1980s. Unfourtantely, due to a technical error during the Iran-Contra scandal investigation that ended it, I cannot give you an exact year. Otherwise if it were found that Regan, Ollie North and the gang did indeed do this, I would tell you when exactly. But the Republican coverup has prevented me from doing this.

Section126
07-27-2004, 08:30 PM
Ok we sold chemical and biological weapons to Iraq and the Contras sometime in the 1980s. Unfourtantely, due to a technical error during the Iran-Contra scandal investigation that ended it, I cannot give you an exact year. Otherwise if it were found that Regan, Ollie North and the gang did indeed do this, I would tell you when exactly. But the Republican coverup has prevented me from doing this.

Which Alien group told you this? I am told that the Martians were in charge of that coverup.......

DolFan31
07-27-2004, 09:39 PM
You don't read much do you?

I read everyday. Why?

P4E
07-28-2004, 10:30 PM
Ok we sold chemical and biological weapons to Iraq and the Contras sometime in the 1980s. Unfourtantely, due to a technical error during the Iran-Contra scandal investigation that ended it, I cannot give you an exact year. Otherwise if it were found that Regan, Ollie North and the gang did indeed do this, I would tell you when exactly. But the Republican coverup has prevented me from doing this.
Dude, you probably think I just like to bust your balls or something; I really don't. But you need to come to understand that stuff like what you just stated is ridiculous to the point of being both funny and sad.

I used to be young, liberal and irrational, just like you. I bought into any liberal version of any issue on Earth. Eventually, it happens that I changed. I am not asking you to change toward conservatism. IT IS FINE THAT YOUR POLITICAL IMPULSE IS LIBERAL. Hold that dear to you for as long as you choose. Forever, if you want. But I want to offer you something; just a suggestion...

You are at or approaching college age. Make the most of it. Arm yourself to argue and defend what you believe. PLEASE don't reject this advice because it comes from someone you perceive as conservative. Anyone who would counsel you AGAINST what I am about to recommend IS NOT YOUR FRIEND and should not be trusted. Okay, here goes:

First, save your quote that I've copied above. Print it, frame it and take it out and look at it every so often. Then...

- Take a class in the discipline called Research Methods.

- Take a class in the English Department on Rhetoric.

- Take a class -- probably in the Communications Dept -- in Logic. [This is probably the single most important course for you.]

- Take a class in the Political Science Dept that addresses political persuasion.

- Take a class in the Philosophy department that deals with Empiricism.

- Take any classes you can in History, Political Science, English, Philosophy, Decision Sciences and even Conflict Resolution.

Do these things... and then think back to my suggesting them. Then see if you can't track me down and say hi. I think we would have a very pleasant chat.

I am wishing you the best in developing your ideas and presenting them -- and yourself -- effectively in this world.

Yours in very good faith,

P4E

BigFinFan
07-28-2004, 11:39 PM
That has got the be some fo the best advice I have heard from any member on this board!

:clap: :clap:

:salute::navy: