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View Full Version : Study: Nearly 9 million Americans lost health insurance from 2001 to 2003



DolFan31
08-03-2004, 11:00 AM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-83healthinsurance,0,3458921.story?coll=sfla-business-front

Section126
08-03-2004, 12:45 PM
Read the article a little more in depth.......

DolFan31
08-03-2004, 01:39 PM
Read the article a little more in depth.......

I read the whole article. Whats your point?

Section126
08-03-2004, 03:02 PM
I read the whole article. Whats your point?


You obviously did not read the WHOL article.......you are cherry picking....read it again...I will not read it for you.....

You always do this crap...it is getting annoying.

DolFan31
08-03-2004, 03:08 PM
You obviously did not read the WHOL article.......you are cherry picking....read it again...I will not read it for you.....

You always do this crap...it is getting annoying.

All I did was post an article with the title. I didnt make any claims nor did I say any one person or event,ect. was responsible. So what are you complaining about?

ohall
08-03-2004, 03:30 PM
All I did was post an article with the title. I didnt make any claims nor did I say any one person or event,ect. was responsible. So what are you complaining about?

Within the title of your post is the claim. You are a Kerry supporter so it's understood you were putting down Bush. Here's a lil hint as to what S-126 is talking about reading the entire article.

"Public plans, such as Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, largely offset the decline in private coverage so the percentage of uninsured Americans did not change significantly overall, the study said. During the study period, the percentage of working-age Americans enrolled in public programs increased from 9 percent to 12 percent.

"Clearly, public insurance programs provided a safety net for millions of people - especially children - who otherwise probably would have lost coverage as the country moved through a recession and a jobless recovery," said Paul B. Ginsburg, president of the nonpartisan center."

Oliver...

Section126
08-03-2004, 03:39 PM
"Public plans, such as Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, largely offset the decline in private coverage so the percentage of uninsured Americans did not change significantly overall, the study said. During the study period, the percentage of working-age Americans enrolled in public programs increased from 9 percent to 12 percent.

Thanks Ohall....That was the exact quote.....

You know...I don't think 31 even read the article.

DolFan31
08-03-2004, 03:40 PM
Within the title of your post is the claim. You are a Kerry supporter so it's understood you were putting down Bush. Here's a lil hint as to what S-126 is talking about reading the entire article.

"Public plans, such as Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, largely offset the decline in private coverage so the percentage of uninsured Americans did not change significantly overall, the study said. During the study period, the percentage of working-age Americans enrolled in public programs increased from 9 percent to 12 percent.

"Clearly, public insurance programs provided a safety net for millions of people - especially children - who otherwise probably would have lost coverage as the country moved through a recession and a jobless recovery," said Paul B. Ginsburg, president of the nonpartisan center."

Oliver...

Well I used the same title as the article put. Anyway, how do you and 126 know I wasn't quietly promoting Universal Health Care?

PhinPhan1227
08-03-2004, 04:41 PM
Well I used the same title as the article put. Anyway, how do you and 126 know I wasn't quietly promoting Universal Health Care?


Universal health care is a wonderful conceept, that will never work. The only way it WILL work is if you lower the bar for healthcare. You'll need salary caps for doctors. Who is going to go through med scholl and 100k of student loans to make 80k a year?

ohall
08-03-2004, 11:20 PM
Well I used the same title as the article put. Anyway, how do you and 126 know I wasn't quietly promoting Universal Health Care?

And why would anyone assume you weren't doing your usual hatchet job on Bush #43?

IMO you're asking too much for me to jump to where you just went.

Oliver...

DolFan31
08-03-2004, 11:58 PM
And why would anyone assume you weren't doing your usual hatchet job on Bush #43?

IMO you're asking too much for me to jump to where you just went.

Oliver...

Hey oliver, dont assume. You know why.

SWS84
08-06-2004, 02:57 PM
Well I used the same title as the article put. Anyway, how do you and 126 know I wasn't quietly promoting Universal Health Care?

Serious question for you 31. I'm just curious and I'm not being critical or anything, but do you understand what Communism is? What about Socialism?
If you do, are they political concepts you are comfortable with?

Steve

ohall
08-06-2004, 05:13 PM
Hey oliver, dont assume. You know why.

It seems my assumption was 100% correct. You trying to hatchet Bush #43 again only based on a title of a story. Next read the whole article. This is like the 5th time you have thought an article makes a point when in reality it makes the opposite point.

Oliver...

DolFan31
08-07-2004, 03:51 AM
Serious question for you 31. I'm just curious and I'm not being critical or anything, but do you understand what Communism is? What about Socialism?
If you do, are they political concepts you are comfortable with?

Steve

Yes, but do you also understand that most of the world's developed nations have Universal Health Care. Would you think that Public Education, partial Welfare, law enforcement and beraucrats are all elements of collectivism/marxism(aka communism and socialism)? Do you understand that its ok to borrow the positive ideas of other governments to make this one a "more perfect union"? Do you understand that the U.S. goverment should be responsible for citizen's defense/security, education and health care? Only then do I feel that the public sector should be responsible for. We cant expect the private sector to provide affordable services to the poor, knowing that the pharmasutical(its late, i know my spellings off, and im too tired to correct, flame me if you want) industry has no cap prices and is self-regulated(basically). The industry can raise health care and medical prices as well as the insurance industry. Ive hadnt had health insurance for over 3 years now because my parents cant afford it and I havent yet been able to provide for myself yet(still have one more year left of high school). I have asthma and I cant afford persciption drugs, nor emergency visits to the hospital when I have an attack. I use over-the-counter inhalers(ephenephrine, or "Primatine Mist"), which is bad for you and has known to kill people. Also when you have asthma and you use inhalers(no matter what kind), your body develops a dependancy on it and eventually a temporairy resistance that makes your attacks increase and the inhaler less effective. That means that go through inhalers alot, so if I had insurance, Id be paying a lot for my medication since I have severe asthma and need my inhalers as I much as I need them(which is throughout the day and night). We make just enough to not qualify for Medicaid, which I was on for a year 3-4 years ago then the government said my parents make too much for it, but yet we couldnt afford private insurance. What would Universal Health Care/Insurance do for me? Plenty. A single-payer system would benefit people like me, but the insurance and pharmasutical companies would lobby against it. So its not going to happen. Im for small governemnt btw, but I feel the government is responsible for its citizen's overall wellbeing, and its just not doing enough for people like me to afford health care and medications. Also, if I get a job Id have to wait 6 months, and looks like Ill have to that way, I just hope their insurance covers asthma. And finally, yes I know what communism and socialism is, and Im no communist/socialist, but I think we can benefit from some benefical socialist programs. Socialism is not the same as communism, and its not like we're turning into a socialist country, but I hope you agree that the leftist governments do have some good ideas, you gotta credit them for that, considering Canada has the 2nd best health care system I believe, and Cuba, believe it or not, ranked 1st(in North America I believe) before the embargo really started to take rastic effects on its health care system. I believe its 3rd best now. Yes, our system is the best, but let's make it better. This is where "if its not broken dont fix it" doesnt apply.

DolFan31
08-07-2004, 03:54 AM
It seems my assumption was 100% correct. You trying to hatchet Bush #43 again only based on a title of a story. Next read the whole article. This is like the 5th time you have thought an article makes a point when in reality it makes the opposite point.

Oliver...

No, no no no no, and no. :shakeno: :nono:

I got the article title from Sun Sentinel. Blame them. Take it up with them. I copied the same exact article title as they have. Call them liberal if you want. Just dont blame me for what a newspaper labeled.

PhinPhan1227
08-07-2004, 10:56 AM
Yes, but do you also understand that most of the world's developed nations have Universal Health Care. Would you think that Public Education, partial Welfare, law enforcement and beraucrats are all elements of collectivism/marxism(aka communism and socialism)? Do you understand that its ok to borrow the positive ideas of other governments to make this one a "more perfect union"? Do you understand that the U.S. goverment should be responsible for citizen's defense/security, education and health care? Only then do I feel that the public sector should be responsible for. We cant expect the private sector to provide affordable services to the poor, knowing that the pharmasutical(its late, i know my spellings off, and im too tired to correct, flame me if you want) industry has no cap prices and is self-regulated(basically). The industry can raise health care and medical prices as well as the insurance industry. Ive hadnt had health insurance for over 3 years now because my parents cant afford it and I havent yet been able to provide for myself yet(still have one more year left of high school). I have asthma and I cant afford persciption drugs, nor emergency visits to the hospital when I have an attack. I use over-the-counter inhalers(ephenephrine, or "Primatine Mist"), which is bad for you and has known to kill people. Also when you have asthma and you use inhalers(no matter what kind), your body develops a dependancy on it and eventually a temporairy resistance that makes your attacks increase and the inhaler less effective. That means that go through inhalers alot, so if I had insurance, Id be paying a lot for my medication since I have severe asthma and need my inhalers as I much as I need them(which is throughout the day and night). We make just enough to not qualify for Medicaid, which I was on for a year 3-4 years ago then the government said my parents make too much for it, but yet we couldnt afford private insurance. What would Universal Health Care/Insurance do for me? Plenty. A single-payer system would benefit people like me, but the insurance and pharmasutical companies would lobby against it. So its not going to happen. Im for small governemnt btw, but I feel the government is responsible for its citizen's overall wellbeing, and its just not doing enough for people like me to afford health care and medications. Also, if I get a job Id have to wait 6 months, and looks like Ill have to that way, I just hope their insurance covers asthma. And finally, yes I know what communism and socialism is, and Im no communist/socialist, but I think we can benefit from some benefical socialist programs. Socialism is not the same as communism, and its not like we're turning into a socialist country, but I hope you agree that the leftist governments do have some good ideas, you gotta credit them for that, considering Canada has the 2nd best health care system I believe, and Cuba, believe it or not, ranked 1st(in North America I believe) before the embargo really started to take rastic effects on its health care system. I believe its 3rd best now. Yes, our system is the best, but let's make it better. This is where "if its not broken dont fix it" doesnt apply.

Do you also understand that few if any of them work effectively? Most are bordering on bancruptcy? Do you also understand that they don't have the higher end medical care that we do? Bottom line, nothing is free. You won't be able to sustain the current top levels of medical care in America with socialized medicine.

DolFan31
08-07-2004, 12:32 PM
Do you also understand that few if any of them work effectively? Most are bordering on bancruptcy? Do you also understand that they don't have the higher end medical care that we do? Bottom line, nothing is free. You won't be able to sustain the current top levels of medical care in America with socialized medicine.

So you're ok with the fact that medical care is too expensive for some poor and middle class people? And tell me why it is that they're bordering on bankruptcy? Maybe its because Bush took money out of Medicare and Medicaid(and Social Security) to give to his rich buddies?

PhinPhan1227
08-07-2004, 02:50 PM
So you're ok with the fact that medical care is too expensive for some poor and middle class people? And tell me why it is that they're bordering on bankruptcy? Maybe its because Bush took money out of Medicare and Medicaid(and Social Security) to give to his rich buddies?


Lets try that again...the FOREIGN countries who have universal health care are going bancrupt. Their programs are VASTLY in the red, and are looking at major overhauls. BTW, Bush actually dumped money INTO Medicare and Medicaid. That's one of the reasons some Republicans are pissed at him. And lastly, I think that we do need our medical system overhauled, Administration, paperwork, insurance, misuse, and abuse of the medical system, take up 90% of the costs incurred. So right there if we could eliminate those problems, healthcare WOULD be affordable. But even if it isn't...It's not the governments problem. Where does it say in the Constitution that people have the right to free medical care? More importantly, where does it say that other people are responsible for my medical care?

Bling
08-08-2004, 12:50 AM
...and what exactly happens when people get their free health care? You know the problems with the gov't doing things for the people? People quit work, and as much as you don't want to admit, people could have got their medicare. I'd like to see a study on why people don't have health care. I gurantee you that people aren't "crippled by Bush" as much as they are freakin' liberal spending idiots.

MDFINFAN
08-12-2004, 01:15 PM
...and what exactly happens when people get their free health care? You know the problems with the gov't doing things for the people? People quit work, and as much as you don't want to admit, people could have got their medicare. I'd like to see a study on why people don't have health care. I gurantee you that people aren't "crippled by Bush" as much as they are freakin' liberal spending idiots.

Mmm, I wonder why Germany and Canada doesn't have this problem. blingbling, I'm not sure what you've seen in your life, but you can't make a statement like "I gurantee you that people aren't "crippled by Bush" as much as they are freakin' liberal spending idiots" without some proof. I've seen enough to know that lack of health care cost this country more money in emergency rooms and long term care that it would in a simple preventitive maintenance package. I've seen the people who are going crazy for lack on care wondering the streets and bothering people. I've seen people patch up people with guall and tissue, when the person needed stitches because they couldn't afford a doctor. Open your eyes, the health of our nation is what can keep us strong, we screw the posh on this and we will live to regret it. It's hard to pay the cost out of pocket when you don't have the income and get sick enough to need that kind of care. This is defintely a hot issue, one a person really doesn't pay attention to until it's his turn to face the cost.

MDFINFAN
08-12-2004, 01:17 PM
One other point bling, who"s the liberal spending idiots right now? It's defintely not the dem's or the independents. It seem who's in power somehow become free spending Idiots. We have a higher deficit now than ever. LOL.

PhinPhan1227
08-12-2004, 03:34 PM
Mmm, I wonder why Germany and Canada doesn't have this problem. blingbling, I'm not sure what you've seen in your life, but you can't make a statement like "I gurantee you that people aren't "crippled by Bush" as much as they are freakin' liberal spending idiots" without some proof. I've seen enough to know that lack of health care cost this country more money in emergency rooms and long term care that it would in a simple preventitive maintenance package. I've seen the people who are going crazy for lack on care wondering the streets and bothering people. I've seen people patch up people with guall and tissue, when the person needed stitches because they couldn't afford a doctor. Open your eyes, the health of our nation is what can keep us strong, we screw the posh on this and we will live to regret it. It's hard to pay the cost out of pocket when you don't have the income and get sick enough to need that kind of care. This is defintely a hot issue, one a person really doesn't pay attention to until it's his turn to face the cost.

Actually Germany's health care system is almost bancrupt, so that wasn't a great example. You want to make healthcare affordable? Reform the law. Billions of dollars are wasted by hospitals because people who aren't that sick or aren't sick at all abuse the system. Ditto to a reform on administrative systems. Just as with education, Admin costs are WAY out of proportion to other costs. Also, reform medicare. My wife is a pharmacist and she comes home daily with stories about people who pull up to the drive thru in a Mercedes and whip out their medicare card. Reform liability laws...BUT, tie them into insurance premiums. If they pass the limits, insurance companies HAVE to come down on the premiums. Or, don't set limits on malpracitce awards, but DO set limits on the fees a lawyer can recieve. Think any of thise things will happen with John Edwards as VP?

MDFINFAN
08-12-2004, 04:15 PM
Actually Germany's health care system is almost bancrupt, so that wasn't a great example. You want to make healthcare affordable? Reform the law. Billions of dollars are wasted by hospitals because people who aren't that sick or aren't sick at all abuse the system. Ditto to a reform on administrative systems. Just as with education, Admin costs are WAY out of proportion to other costs. Also, reform medicare. My wife is a pharmacist and she comes home daily with stories about people who pull up to the drive thru in a Mercedes and whip out their medicare card. Reform liability laws...BUT, tie them into insurance premiums. If they pass the limits, insurance companies HAVE to come down on the premiums. Or, don't set limits on malpracitce awards, but DO set limits on the fees a lawyer can recieve. Think any of thise things will happen with John Edwards as VP?

guess what, you and I agree on this. :D Now where's my diary. :lol:

DolFan31
08-12-2004, 06:46 PM
Actually Germany's health care system is almost bancrupt, so that wasn't a great example. You want to make healthcare affordable? Reform the law. Billions of dollars are wasted by hospitals because people who aren't that sick or aren't sick at all abuse the system. Ditto to a reform on administrative systems. Just as with education, Admin costs are WAY out of proportion to other costs. Also, reform medicare. My wife is a pharmacist and she comes home daily with stories about people who pull up to the drive thru in a Mercedes and whip out their medicare card. Reform liability laws...BUT, tie them into insurance premiums. If they pass the limits, insurance companies HAVE to come down on the premiums. Or, don't set limits on malpracitce awards, but DO set limits on the fees a lawyer can recieve. Think any of thise things will happen with John Edwards as VP?


John Kerry agrees with you too.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/health_care/


Affordable, high-quality health care will keep our families healthy, our businesses competitive, and our country strong.

Over the last three years, family premiums have increased by more than $2,600 and prescription drug prices have grown four times faster than inflation. These skyrocketing costs have hurt our economy and forced many families into bankruptcy.

We deserve a president who understands that in America, regular check-ups shouldn't empty family checkbooks - a president who will put people ahead of insurance and drug companies.

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to address soaring premiums and cut Americans a break. Their plan will lower family premiums by up to $1,000 a year, cut waste from the system, lower the cost of prescription drugs to provide real relief to seniors, and use targeted tax cuts to extend affordable, high-quality coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every child. And because John Kerry and John Edwards believe that everyone's health is equally important, they will provide all Americans with access to the same coverage that members of Congress give themselves.

To make affordable health care a right - not a privilege - for every American, John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Cut Your Premiums
John Kerry and John Edwards will cut family premiums by up to $1,000. That's $1,000 in real savings people can use to buy groceries, pay the bills, and save for their children's future. And that will mean more jobs and more competitive American businesses.

Cover All Americans With Quality Care
The Kerry-Edwards plan will give every American access to the range of high-quality, affordable plans available to members of Congress and extend coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every American child. Their plan will also fight to erase the health disparities that persist along racial and economic lines, ensure that people with HIV and AIDS have the care they need, end discrimination against Americans with disabilities and mental illnesses, and ensure equal treatment for mental illness in our health system.

Provide Affordable Prescriptions
The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada, overhauling the Medicare drug plan, ensuring low-cost drugs, and ending artificial barriers to generic drug competition.

Cut Waste And Inefficiency
Today, approximately 25 percent of health care costs are wasted on paperwork and administrative processing. The Kerry-Edwards plan harnesses American ingenuity to cut waste, save billions, and take new steps to ensure patient privacy.

PhinPhan1227
08-12-2004, 07:44 PM
Other than this line..."cut waste from the system,", how does that agree with what I said? Again, how likely is it that ambulance chasing John Edwards is going to address tort reform?

DolFan31
08-12-2004, 08:22 PM
Other than this line..."cut waste from the system,", how does that agree with what I said? Again, how likely is it that ambulance chasing John Edwards is going to address tort reform?

Well, cut waste from the system is what agrees with what you said!

PhinPhan1227
08-12-2004, 09:47 PM
Well, cut waste from the system is what agrees with what you said!


Lol...every politician that has ever served in any office has said they will cut waste. I want to see WHERE they will cut waste. I want to see HOW they will cut waste. I want to see them lie thru their teeth and say they will go after Torte reform.

MDFINFAN
08-13-2004, 11:33 AM
Lol...every politician that has ever served in any office has said they will cut waste. I want to see WHERE they will cut waste. I want to see HOW they will cut waste. I want to see them lie thru their teeth and say they will go after Torte reform.

You know for every person that abuses the system there are several who really need the help. With the suing issue, I think this helps cut down on bad medical practices, it keeps our doctors honest, the only part I would want controlled is the lawyers fees. In terms of how much a patient gets, I think the jury should decide. On the other hand I think if you tell a company it will only have to paid so much, then they will be more willing to gamble with people's lives. The bottom line is to cut abuses (both ways) and cut cost of developing medicines, and make health care, especially preventitive care available. As rich as this country is, there's no reason not to solve this if we really wanted to. If it was a defense weapon, I'd bet we solve it.

PhinPhan1227
08-13-2004, 11:57 AM
The problem is, every person who abuses the system costs the system more than several people who REALLY need the help. As for malpractice, I only see a need for limits on pain and suffering, which is all that anyone has proposed. Actual damages, lost wages, etc are uncapped. You mentioned cutting the cost of developing medicines. There is certainly some beaurocracy that could be trimmed, but the main cost is in testing. Do you want to cut back on that and go back to the days when we found out about bad drugs when the deformed babies came out missing limbs?

MDFINFAN
08-13-2004, 12:53 PM
The problem is, every person who abuses the system costs the system more than several people who REALLY need the help. As for malpractice, I only see a need for limits on pain and suffering, which is all that anyone has proposed. Actual damages, lost wages, etc are uncapped. You mentioned cutting the cost of developing medicines. There is certainly some beaurocracy that could be trimmed, but the main cost is in testing. Do you want to cut back on that and go back to the days when we found out about bad drugs when the deformed babies came out missing limbs?

Actually the research and development part waste a lot of money, testing is generally the easy part, it's pretty much a contained cost. It's an issue that would take a lot of people coming together on. Some would have to be willing to take a pay cut. (for doing hardly anything). Others would just have to agree. Mmmm, we can't even agree on this board, I guess the chances of this being resolved is remote.

PhinPhan1227
08-13-2004, 01:14 PM
Lol...I knew you were a Socialist at heart.

MDFINFAN
08-16-2004, 12:22 AM
Lol...I knew you were a Socialist at heart.

:roflmao:

No where near it, but there are aspects of it I like. For the most part, I love our system of government, just wish we could cut out the waste and fraud. The liars and cheaters. The haves and haves nots. Mmm, that does sound like a socialist..I'm going to have to change from independent to ???? :lol:

PhinPhan1227
08-16-2004, 12:30 AM
:roflmao:

No where near it, but there are aspects of it I like. For the most part, I love our system of government, just wish we could cut out the waste and fraud. The liars and cheaters. The haves and haves nots. Mmm, that does sound like a socialist..I'm going to have to change from independent to ???? :lol:


Lol...if you want to see waste and fraud elevated to an art form, take a look at any socialist nation. I can honestly say that there isn't anything about socialism that doesn't frighten and disgust me.

MDFINFAN
08-16-2004, 12:50 AM
Lol...if you want to see waste and fraud elevated to an art form, take a look at any socialist nation. I can honestly say that there isn't anything about socialism that doesn't frighten and disgust me.

LOL, that's why I wouldn't say who I would become, I realized anything man made would be corrupt. I think I'll stick to being a Christian, I trust God. This political stuff is for the birds, I usually don't post in this section of the boards, but I was bored before our PS game and decided to come in here. Now that PS has started I probably won't come in here as much. I realize by reading all the stuff in here that this whole political game is man made and corrupted. Big donors will be the final victors here and the voters are used to get their man in office. Funny how we demonize each other, about views, when the candidates really don't care about us. I will always vote because it is my right as a citizen, and one a lot of people die for. But as each election goes by, I see the utter corruption more and more. It's not a fun thing to watch as people are polarized alone color lines, gender, political affiliation, religious beliefs and so on. When in reality everyone wants the same things in life and all of us as Americans are both liberal and conservative, it all depends on the subject matter. Anyway I'll drop in from time to time to see how you guys are cutting each other to pieces. :lol:

PhinPhan1227
08-16-2004, 01:02 AM
LOL, that's why I wouldn't say who I would become, I realized anything man made would be corrupt. I think I'll stick to being a Christian, I trust God. This political stuff is for the birds, I usually don't post in this section of the boards, but I was bored before our PS game and decided to come in here. Now that PS has started I probably won't come in here as much. I realize by reading all the stuff in here that this whole political game is man made and corrupted. Big donors will be the final victors here and the voters are used to get their man in office. Funny how we demonize each other, about views, when the candidates really don't care about us. I will always vote because it is my right as a citizen, and one a lot of people die for. But as each election goes by, I see the utter corruption more and more. It's not a fun thing to watch as people are polarized alone color lines, gender, political affiliation, religious beliefs and so on. When in reality everyone wants the same things in life and all of us as Americans are both liberal and conservative, it all depends on the subject matter. Anyway I'll drop in from time to time to see how you guys are cutting each other to pieces. :lol:

Heck MD, we agree almost 100% there. Only difference, I actually believe that the candidates actually believe that they do care about us. Not that they actually do, but at least THEY think they do.