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baracuda
08-04-2004, 09:03 AM
from http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT YOUR HERO MICHAEL MOORE NOW?

Strange silence from the Bush haters lately. Their hero Michael Moore has been caught in yet another lie. You've heard about this one, haven't you? Some reader sent a letter to the editor of The Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington, IL. That letter was printed with a small headline above it highlighting the letter-writers opinion that "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election." Well, Michael Moore wanted to use this "headline" in his movie. So, he took the "Gore wins recount" header off that one letter in the letters-to-the-editor section and pastes it onto the front page of the newspaper as a banner headline. The "Gore wins recount" line magically goes from a letter-writer's opinion to the newspapers front page headline. In other words --- Moore lied. He created a deliberate, intentional lie and presented it to his viewers as the truth. Perhaps he felt that altering the content of an oddly-named newspaper in a smaller town would go unnoticed. It didn't. This isn't new stuff for Moore. He did it with "Bowling for Columbine" also. But none of this matters to the left. Moore doesn't like George Bush. Moore bashes America, both at home and abroad. By default that makes Moore a hero. Truth doesn't matter when you're fighting for the socialist, big-government, pro-appeasement cause.

DolFan31
08-04-2004, 02:40 PM
from http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT YOUR HERO MICHAEL MOORE NOW?

Strange silence from the Bush haters lately. Their hero Michael Moore has been caught in yet another lie. You've heard about this one, haven't you? Some reader sent a letter to the editor of The Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington, IL. That letter was printed with a small headline above it highlighting the letter-writers opinion that "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election." Well, Michael Moore wanted to use this "headline" in his movie. So, he took the "Gore wins recount" header off that one letter in the letters-to-the-editor section and pastes it onto the front page of the newspaper as a banner headline. The "Gore wins recount" line magically goes from a letter-writer's opinion to the newspapers front page headline. In other words --- Moore lied. He created a deliberate, intentional lie and presented it to his viewers as the truth. Perhaps he felt that altering the content of an oddly-named newspaper in a smaller town would go unnoticed. It didn't. This isn't new stuff for Moore. He did it with "Bowling for Columbine" also. But none of this matters to the left. Moore doesn't like George Bush. Moore bashes America, both at home and abroad. By default that makes Moore a hero. Truth doesn't matter when you're fighting for the socialist, big-government, pro-appeasement cause.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes
http://www.nabil.org/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2290-2004Jun24.html
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12158522&BRD=1395&PAG=461&dept_id=216620&rfi=6

Stop with this crying of Michael Moore. You're just giving him more publicity.

Fin_Fanatic
08-04-2004, 08:42 PM
i can honestly say i hate michael moore, more than the bills, the jets, and the pats......:fire:

ABrownLamp
08-04-2004, 09:26 PM
WHO CARES ABOUT MICHAEL MOORE?????!!!

ABrownLamp
08-04-2004, 09:30 PM
You know what's funny? It's not the DEMS that keep going on and on about Michael Moore. It's the REPS. In fact the only time I really ever see him quoted is by some cantankerous right winger, outraged by his "lies." Get over it. We don't care what Michael Moore says either. We already knew Bush was a jerk.

You guys are like the love scorned middle school girl who just got dumped. You feign apathy and disdain for this guy, but continue to talk about him all the time. WE DON'T CARE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT HIM ANYMORE!!! GET OVER IT!!! STOP RATIONALIZING THE THINGS HE SAID TO YOU THAT HURT YOUR FEELINGS!!!!

CirclingWagons
08-04-2004, 09:32 PM
You know what's funny? It's not the DEMS that keep going on and on about Michael Moore. It's the REPS. In fact the only time I really ever see him quoted is by some cantankerous right winger, outraged by his "lies." Get over it. We don't care what Michael Moore says either. We already knew Bush was a jerk.

You guys are like the love scorned middle school girl who just got dumped. You feign apathy and disdain for this guy, but continue to talk about him all the time. And just like the little girl's best friend. WE'RE
one of the best(and truest) posts ever on this site :clap:
Moore would hardly ever be mentioned in this forum if the REPS didn't ***** about him to no end.

Muck
08-05-2004, 01:27 AM
I guess that puts to rest the "Gore really won the election" thing.

Michael Moore controls the world.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 04:03 PM
You know what's funny? It's not the DEMS that keep going on and on about Michael Moore. It's the REPS. In fact the only time I really ever see him quoted is by some cantankerous right winger, outraged by his "lies." Get over it. We don't care what Michael Moore says either. We already knew Bush was a jerk.

You guys are like the love scorned middle school girl who just got dumped. You feign apathy and disdain for this guy, but continue to talk about him all the time. WE DON'T CARE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT HIM ANYMORE!!! GET OVER IT!!! STOP RATIONALIZING THE THINGS HE SAID TO YOU THAT HURT YOUR FEELINGS!!!!

:allhail:

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 04:04 PM
Add to that the fact that they complain that the movie is full of half-truths, lies, and propaganda that they say could influence the election. But isnt that what politicians do in their campaign ads?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 04:08 PM
Add to that the fact that they complain that the movie is full of half-truths, lies, and propaganda that they say could influence the election. But isnt that what politicians do in their campaign ads?


If F9/11 is a campaign ad than it violates McCain/Feingold and is illegal in addition to being plagiaristic.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 04:43 PM
If F9/11 is a campaign ad than it violates McCain/Feingold and is illegal in addition to being plagiaristic.

Im not saying its a campaign ad. But, if the argument you guys are making about why it shouldnt be shown, then campaign ads shouldnt be either.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 04:49 PM
Im not saying its a campaign ad. But, if the argument you guys are making about why it shouldnt be shown, then campaign ads shouldnt be either.


It's about presentation. F9/11 shouldn't have been presented as a documantary.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 04:50 PM
It's about presentation. F9/11 shouldn't have been presented as a documantary.

But it was a documentry!

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 05:01 PM
But it was a documentry!

No...it was NOT. By definition, a documentary is a presentation of the facts without bias or editorialization. Nobody in their right minds would describe that movie as unbiased or without editorialization.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 05:07 PM
No...it was NOT. By definition, a documentary is a presentation of the facts without bias or editorialization. Nobody in their right minds would describe that movie as unbiased or without editorialization.

Then how would you classify the movie?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 05:10 PM
Then how would you classify the movie?

Propaganda. Just like any political ad. I wouldn't call a biography of Bush put out by Bush's people a documentary either...it would be propaganda as well.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 05:13 PM
Propaganda. Just like any political ad. I wouldn't call a biography of Bush put out by Bush's people a documentary either...it would be propaganda as well.

Who cares anyway?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 05:17 PM
Who cares anyway?


When there are a few weak minded people who might actually let their opinions be swayed because they think they are being presented unbiased facts? That makes me care.

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 05:20 PM
When there are a few weak minded people who might actually let their opinions be swayed because they think they are being presented unbiased facts? That makes me care.

So what about campaign ads then? And tv/radio shows? ect.?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 05:34 PM
So what about campaign ads then? And tv/radio shows? ect.?


The law says that those ads have to declare that they were payed for and written by whichever group is responsible. A documentary carries a different tone.

ABrownLamp
08-05-2004, 06:31 PM
The law says that those ads have to declare that they were payed for and written by whichever group is responsible. A documentary carries a different tone.
I was wondering why they now all say "...and I approve this ad."

So would you consider war movies documentaries. I've never seen a WWII movie from the Nazi perspective.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 06:52 PM
I was wondering why they now all say "...and I approve this ad."

So would you consider war movies documentaries. I've never seen a WWII movie from the Nazi perspective.

No, I'd consider them movies. Works of fiction based on facts. I've seen plenty of documentaries that give the Nazi perspective. Oh, and as for Nazi perspective WWII movies...ever see Das Boat?

MDFINFAN
08-05-2004, 11:56 PM
from http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT YOUR HERO MICHAEL MOORE NOW?

Strange silence from the Bush haters lately. Their hero Michael Moore has been caught in yet another lie. You've heard about this one, haven't you? Some reader sent a letter to the editor of The Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington, IL. That letter was printed with a small headline above it highlighting the letter-writers opinion that "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election." Well, Michael Moore wanted to use this "headline" in his movie. So, he took the "Gore wins recount" header off that one letter in the letters-to-the-editor section and pastes it onto the front page of the newspaper as a banner headline. The "Gore wins recount" line magically goes from a letter-writer's opinion to the newspapers front page headline. In other words --- Moore lied. He created a deliberate, intentional lie and presented it to his viewers as the truth. Perhaps he felt that altering the content of an oddly-named newspaper in a smaller town would go unnoticed. It didn't. This isn't new stuff for Moore. He did it with "Bowling for Columbine" also. But none of this matters to the left. Moore doesn't like George Bush. Moore bashes America, both at home and abroad. By default that makes Moore a hero. Truth doesn't matter when you're fighting for the socialist, big-government, pro-appeasement cause.

If this is true, it sounds like he pulled a bush...but his lies don't get Americans killed..

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 01:25 AM
If this is true, it sounds like he pulled a bush...but his lies don't get Americans killed..

Come on MD...what was you MOS and unit. Those of us who served are very curious.

DolFan31
08-06-2004, 01:35 AM
Come on MD...what was you MOS and unit. Those of us who served are very curious.

Maybe the dude went to bed? :confused:

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 01:47 AM
Maybe the dude went to bed? :confused:


I asked him in about 6 different posts last week. He was posting all over the place until I asked him about it. He has only just started reposting today. I figured by this time he could have done a Google search and found an MOS and Unit to claim.

MDFINFAN
08-06-2004, 03:22 AM
I asked him in about 6 different posts last week. He was posting all over the place until I asked him about it. He has only just started reposting today. I figured by this time he could have done a Google search and found an MOS and Unit to claim.

Sorry missed this, I had gone somewhere else, I was a Field Artillery Officer, for those into mos's a 13 series. with a 54 series secondary. I worked in the 54 series in DC, which is how I got here in the DC area. 54 series is Research and Development, in that capacity I was in some black programs and had assess to a lot of info that the general public can't and won't see. But it gave me info that backs up a lot of my statements. Military people can't say what I've said as long as their in the Military, I got out while I was here and stayed in the area. I love your google search statement I wouldn't have thought of that...but anyway I came into the Army in 1981 as a FA officer, did my basic Officer training at Fort Sill, Ok, then went to Germany, came back to Fort Sill for the Advance course, then taught in the school there for 3 years, then took command for 2 years, left then to go to CAS que, a advance, advance course for Officers in Fort Levenworth, Ks. I actually saw a Dolphin-chief game there in 89, then I went to MAM course in St. Peterburg, VA,,,MAM...Material Acquisiton Management, this was preparation for the 54 series I was about to work in, after graduating there, I came to DC to serve in that capacity until I decided to take the early out that Bush 1 was offering in an attempt to downsize the Military..which all republicians keeps trying to blame on Clinton, but I know, because I was in the Army when we started downsizing. well anyway that's my background...Now I'm a computer gee... :D It's a living.

P4E
08-06-2004, 03:41 AM
:patriot: :troops: :flag2: :salute:


Thanks for serving and thank you for responding to the question. I had seen 1227 pose the question a couple different times, and I was really starting to wonder.:)

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 04:26 AM
Sorry missed this, I had gone somewhere else, I was a Field Artillery Officer, for those into mos's a 13 series. with a 54 series secondary. I worked in the 54 series in DC, which is how I got here in the DC area. 54 series is Research and Development, in that capacity I was in some black programs and had assess to a lot of info that the general public can't and won't see. But it gave me info that backs up a lot of my statements. Military people can't say what I've said as long as their in the Military, I got out while I was here and stayed in the area. I love your google search statement I wouldn't have thought of that...but anyway I came into the Army in 1981 as a FA officer, did my basic Officer training at Fort Sill, Ok, then went to Germany, came back to Fort Sill for the Advance course, then taught in the school there for 3 years, then took command for 2 years, left then to go to CAS que, a advance, advance course for Officers in Fort Levenworth, Ks. I actually saw a Dolphin-chief game there in 89, then I went to MAM course in St. Peterburg, VA,,,MAM...Material Acquisiton Management, this was preparation for the 54 series I was about to work in, after graduating there, I came to DC to serve in that capacity until I decided to take the early out that Bush 1 was offering in an attempt to downsize the Military..which all republicians keeps trying to blame on Clinton, but I know, because I was in the Army when we started downsizing. well anyway that's my background...Now I'm a computer gee... :D It's a living.


Again...well done. So what Unit did you do your Officer Training with at Sill?

MDFINFAN
08-06-2004, 05:47 PM
Again...well done. So what Unit did you do your Officer Training with at Sill?

You don't have a unit when you do that type of training, you're a part of the FA school..in other words you're assigned to the schoo, weather it's OBC...Officers Basic Training, then you come back for Officer Advance Course or OAC after 3 years of being in a unit. Were you in the military? and where were you station and what's your MOS and banch affiliation? If you trying to verify weather I've been in the Army, there's the town of Lawton, OK that's right outside the base, if anyones been there, then they would know sheridan's street, and they would know there's a lot of pawn shops and strip joins right outside of post..well I forget. I haven't been there since 1992 on a TDY trip..so it may have change since. but it's a beautiful post, really big. We use to have 3 main entrances to get onto post. I don't know what's happening there now with all the terriots problems. I love it there, you could go North on I70 I think it was to OK city or south to Tx..I'm trying to remember what that first little city was called when you entered Tx. there was an Air force base there we use to visit. Any way the area was great for motorcycle riding and the people were pretty friendly. I didn't like living out midwest, I like the east coach better, so I didn't go back there.

Section126
08-06-2004, 06:23 PM
Sorry...I still don't believe MD.......if he was in the Black Ops...then he is an anamoly........

It is a heavily Republican bastion.....Kinda like the Special Forces that are about 90% Pub.

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 06:26 PM
You don't have a unit when you do that type of training, you're a part of the FA school..in other words you're assigned to the schoo, weather it's OBC...Officers Basic Training, then you come back for Officer Advance Course or OAC after 3 years of being in a unit. Were you in the military? and where were you station and what's your MOS and banch affiliation? If you trying to verify weather I've been in the Army, there's the town of Lawton, OK that's right outside the base, if anyones been there, then they would know sheridan's street, and they would know there's a lot of pawn shops and strip joins right outside of post..well I forget. I haven't been there since 1992 on a TDY trip..so it may have change since. but it's a beautiful post, really big. We use to have 3 main entrances to get onto post. I don't know what's happening there now with all the terriots problems. I love it there, you could go North on I70 I think it was to OK city or south to Tx..I'm trying to remember what that first little city was called when you entered Tx. there was an Air force base there we use to visit. Any way the area was great for motorcycle riding and the people were pretty friendly. I didn't like living out midwest, I like the east coach better, so I didn't go back there.

Did my Basic/AIT at Benning with the 3/32(Bravo company 4th platoon) on SandHill. Served with 10th Mountain in Fort Drum NY, 2nd/22nd. Then did 4 years with the CT NG, in the 29th Inf Div. I always thought it was funny that when they colorized "The Longest Day", they got our shoulder patches the wrong color.

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 06:27 PM
Sorry...I still don't believe MD.......if he was in the Black Ops...then he is an anamoly........

It is a heavily Republican bastion.....Kinda like the Special Forces that are about 90% Pub.


He didn't say he was in Black Ops, he said he was involved in Black programs. Black programs are things like the F117 stealth fighter...so secret they don't officially exist until the bombs start falling. The thing is, people involved in those programs aren't even allowed to tell you they were involved. It's a little thing called treason.

Section126
08-06-2004, 06:35 PM
He didn't say he was in Black Ops, he said he was involved in Black programs. Black programs are things like the F117 stealth fighter...so secret they don't officially exist until the bombs start falling. The thing is, people involved in those programs aren't even allowed to tell you they were involved. It's a little thing called treason.



Ah......your'e taking it to far........What's wrong with a little treason every now and then? Especially for a Democrat! :roflmao:

MDFINFAN
08-06-2004, 06:58 PM
Did my Basic/AIT at Benning with the 3/32(Bravo company 4th platoon) on SandHill. Served with 10th Mountain in Fort Drum NY, 2nd/22nd. Then did 4 years with the CT NG, in the 29th Inf Div. I always thought it was funny that when they colorized "The Longest Day", they got our shoulder patches the wrong color.

:roflmao:

Fort Drum,,,not man's land..I told they still had horse driven howitzers up there, is that still true, or was it just a joke. the guy who told me that at the time seem very serious..

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 08:06 PM
:roflmao:

Fort Drum,,,not man's land..I told they still had horse driven howitzers up there, is that still true, or was it just a joke. the guy who told me that at the time seem very serious..

If you want a visual of Fort Drum, take the movie Deliverance and put an Army Post in the middle of it.

themole
08-06-2004, 09:33 PM
Did my Basic/AIT at Benning with the 3/32(Bravo company 4th platoon) on SandHill. Served with 10th Mountain in Fort Drum NY, 2nd/22nd. Then did 4 years with the CT NG, in the 29th Inf Div. I always thought it was funny that when they colorized "The Longest Day", they got our shoulder patches the wrong color.


1227...The color patches are Blue and Gray. The 29th was made up by melding together units from the north and south after the Civil War. Of course I know you are aware of the history that famous division has made for its self.

My father was a "double 29". As I understand it, He was trained by the Brits, in England, from that, was formed the "29th Ranger Battilion". They went on one mission before D-day and then were disbanded, he was then assigned to the "Fighting 29th" and performed "skullduggery" for them through the remainder of the war. Their weapons of choice was piano wire and K-Bar. He wouldn't tell me much about what they did, but like any kid I would eves drop when he and old war buddies would tell late night war stories after a saturday cook out

The Master Sargent Did 12 years and 2 wars for us. When I was 4 years old I remember picking him up at Fort Benning and bringing him home. There were only 6000 Bronze Stars awarded in WWII, my Dad has one of them. HE was my hero and still is.

"29th...Let's go!"

RIP POPs.

t2thejz
08-06-2004, 10:08 PM
1227...The color patches are Blue and Gray. The 29th was made up by melding together units from the north and south after the Civil War. Of course I know you are aware of the history that famous division has made for its self.

My father was a "double 29". As I understand it, He was trained by the Brits, in England, from that, was formed the "29th Ranger Battilion". They went on one mission before D-day and then were disbanded, he was then assigned to the "Fighting 29th" and performed "skullduggery" for them through the remainder of the war. Their weapons of choice was piano wire and K-Bar. He wouldn't tell me much about what they did, but like any kid I would eves drop when he and old war buddies would tell late night war stories after a saturday cook out

The Master Sargent Did 12 years and 2 wars for us. When I was 4 years old I remember picking him up at Fort Benning and bringing him home. There were only 6000 Bronze Stars awarded in WWII, my Dad has one of them. HE was my hero and still is.

"29th...Let's go!"

RIP POPs.
Wow! That really is something to be proud of

PhinPhan1227
08-07-2004, 12:10 AM
1227...The color patches are Blue and Gray. The 29th was made up by melding together units from the north and south after the Civil War. Of course I know you are aware of the history that famous division has made for its self.

My father was a "double 29". As I understand it, He was trained by the Brits, in England, from that, was formed the "29th Ranger Battilion". They went on one mission before D-day and then were disbanded, he was then assigned to the "Fighting 29th" and performed "skullduggery" for them through the remainder of the war. Their weapons of choice was piano wire and K-Bar. He wouldn't tell me much about what they did, but like any kid I would eves drop when he and old war buddies would tell late night war stories after a saturday cook out

The Master Sargent Did 12 years and 2 wars for us. When I was 4 years old I remember picking him up at Fort Benning and bringing him home. There were only 6000 Bronze Stars awarded in WWII, my Dad has one of them. HE was my hero and still is.

"29th...Let's go!"

RIP POPs.


Um yeah...I know, and I kept a pair of those patches from my Class A's. But in the movie they colorized them Red and Green. At least I think it was the Longest Day...I'm about 90% sure.

themole
08-07-2004, 08:17 AM
Um yeah...I know, and I kept a pair of those patches from my Class A's. But in the movie they colorized them Red and Green. At least I think it was the Longest Day...I'm about 90% sure.

I've never seen the Longest Day in color. If indeed, the colors were wrong then the finger pointing should be toward that most heralded democrat of all "Ted Turner".

From those stories I mentioned eves dropping on, I actually saw the opening to the movie Saving Private Ryan close to 30 years before it was made "ln my minds eye".

PhinPhan1227
08-07-2004, 11:05 AM
I've never seen the Longest Day in color. If indeed, the colors were wrong then the finger pointing should be toward that most heralded democrat of all "Ted Turner".

From those stories I mentioned eves dropping on, I actually saw the opening to the movie Saving Private Ryan close to 30 years before it was made "ln my minds eye".

I hope this doesn't sound trite, but I got a better appreciation for the unique difficulties of WWII when I played the game Close Combat. It really did a nice job giving a realistic feel for all the different factors involved. As for the Longest Day, it's one of my favorite WWII movies, but it WAS funny to see the patches done incorrectly.

DolFan31
08-07-2004, 12:25 PM
Ah......your'e taking it to far........What's wrong with a little treason every now and then? Especially for a Democrat! :roflmao:

"Wow...just ....wow. I love the concept that a Conservative is any better than a Liberal or vice versa. Honestly, anyone who is far to either side is probably chosing to be an idiot in some way. It just boggles my mind that anyone thinks one group is any better overall than the other." - PhinPhan1227

themole
08-07-2004, 02:23 PM
"Wow...just ....wow. I love the concept that a Conservative is any better than a Liberal or vice versa. Honestly, anyone who is far to either side is probably chosing to be an idiot in some way. It just boggles my mind that anyone thinks one group is any better overall than the other." - PhinPhan1227


Yes... I'm idiotic, you see, I'm as right wing as the founding fathers, no more no less. Our ship of state has drifted SO FAR to the LEFT that the republicans stand where the democrats stood 75 yrs ago. The democratics are now firmly standing on the ground that Stalin once claimed all for himself.

I invite you to take the time to learn what our founding fathers intended for this nation to become, study the constitution, read the biographies of some of the founders or for that matter all of them. See how each party of today squares with what they (the founders) had in mind. The damn democrats aren't even on the same planet with them.

I'll give you this much, the republicans have a lot of soul searching to do also. Right now they are the closest to what the founders had in mind.

Here's the rift! This nation was NEVER intended to recognize GROUP rights! From its inception it has always been about INDIVIDUAL rights.

PhinPhan1227
08-07-2004, 02:52 PM
Yes... I'm idiotic, you see, I'm as right wing as the founding fathers, no more no less. Our ship of state has drifted SO FAR to the LEFT that the republicans stand where the democrats stood 75 yrs ago. The democratics are now firmly standing on the ground that Stalin once claimed all for himself.

I invite you to take the time to learn what our founding fathers intended for this nation to become, study the constitution, read the biographies of some of the founders or for that matter all of them. See how each party of today squares with what they (the founders) had in mind. The damn democrats aren't even on the same planet with them.

I'll give you this much, the republicans have a lot of soul searching to do also. Right now they are the closest to what the founders had in mind.

Here's the rift! This nation was NEVER intended to recognize GROUP rights! From its inception it has always been about INDIVIDUAL rights.

Um...except for that whole majority rule thing. The majority is afterall, a "group".

themole
08-07-2004, 06:25 PM
Um...except for that whole majority rule thing. The majority is afterall, a "group".


:D Of course it is! One that is made up of fearcely independent individuals, ever changing and voting on an ever changing political platform. It is also a group checked by the electorial college made up of individuals. Which in turn makes us a republic. :)

MDFINFAN
08-07-2004, 09:32 PM
Sorry...I still don't believe MD.......if he was in the Black Ops...then he is an anamoly........

It is a heavily Republican bastion.....Kinda like the Special Forces that are about 90% Pub.

Black Ops,, :roflmao: I was no where close to that, and that's why I was a anamoly...Tis not for you to believe, you haven't lived my life, paid my bills, or suffered any pain for me or with me, except when the phins don't win :D , but other than that, theres no way to prove anything about my life on this board. If you've read my Ft. Sill reveiw and ever been there, then you'll know, but since you don't believe any thing except what a party tells you..well, you kind of lost anyway and there's no way to lead you to light. But I will continue to respect you no matter what..

DolFan31
08-08-2004, 05:53 PM
Yes... I'm idiotic, you see, I'm as right wing as the founding fathers, no more no less. Our ship of state has drifted SO FAR to the LEFT that the republicans stand where the democrats stood 75 yrs ago. The democratics are now firmly standing on the ground that Stalin once claimed all for himself.

I invite you to take the time to learn what our founding fathers intended for this nation to become, study the constitution, read the biographies of some of the founders or for that matter all of them. See how each party of today squares with what they (the founders) had in mind. The damn democrats aren't even on the same planet with them.

I'll give you this much, the republicans have a lot of soul searching to do also. Right now they are the closest to what the founders had in mind.

Here's the rift! This nation was NEVER intended to recognize GROUP rights! From its inception it has always been about INDIVIDUAL rights.

You're kidding right? The Republicans are no where close to where our founding fathers intended, so dont confuse the Republicans with the Libertarians. Republicans talk the talk but dont walk the walk, even when theyre the majority. What do you think our founding fathers intended on? Small governemnt? I havent seen the Republicans taken out the Department of Education, nor the Department of Housing and Urban Devolopment, or any other department. In fact, government seems to grow more under Republicans than Democrats. Clinton, the so-called liberal Democrat, cut government's size btw.

You are aware though that changing times through history have made it nearly impossible for this government to be exactly like the government was in 1776. Which is why our founding fathers made it in the constitution that it may be ratified for a "more perfect union", which is whats happened throughout our nation's history.

Tell me what makes the Democratic party a communist party? Have you seen any Democrat come out and say we need a 100% welfare state? Have you seen any Democrat outlaw the private sector and make the country work to the benefit of the community instead for the individual?

Unlike you, as it seems obviously, I have done intense studying on our nation's past, reading biographies of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, John Hancock, and Thomas Paine. Ive studied the constitution, although I must admit it takes several times and different interpreters to understand it with some sections and articles. You do know that some of the best people in our history were considered liberals of their time that include all of the Founding Fathers(since democracy was considered a new idea at the time since it was thousands of years since the Greek and Roman Empires), Fredrick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln(His Republican Party was full of radical liberals of the time that wanted to give former slaves full rights after emancipation), Martin Luther King, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and countless others.

Stop being so partisan all the time and realize that BOTH parties offer good things, any educated person can see that, even me, a registered Democrat, self-proclaimed liberal, and Kerry Supporter. Open your eyes.

PhinPhan1227
08-08-2004, 11:10 PM
You're kidding right? The Republicans are no where close to where our founding fathers intended, so dont confuse the Republicans with the Libertarians. Republicans talk the talk but dont walk the walk, even when theyre the majority. What do you think our founding fathers intended on? Small governemnt? I havent seen the Republicans taken out the Department of Education, nor the Department of Housing and Urban Devolopment, or any other department. In fact, government seems to grow more under Republicans than Democrats. Clinton, the so-called liberal Democrat, cut government's size btw.

You are aware though that changing times through history have made it nearly impossible for this government to be exactly like the government was in 1776. Which is why our founding fathers made it in the constitution that it may be ratified for a "more perfect union", which is whats happened throughout our nation's history.

Tell me what makes the Democratic party a communist party? Have you seen any Democrat come out and say we need a 100% welfare state? Have you seen any Democrat outlaw the private sector and make the country work to the benefit of the community instead for the individual?

Unlike you, as it seems obviously, I have done intense studying on our nation's past, reading biographies of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, John Hancock, and Thomas Paine. Ive studied the constitution, although I must admit it takes several times and different interpreters to understand it with some sections and articles. You do know that some of the best people in our history were considered liberals of their time that include all of the Founding Fathers(since democracy was considered a new idea at the time since it was thousands of years since the Greek and Roman Empires), Fredrick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln(His Republican Party was full of radical liberals of the time that wanted to give former slaves full rights after emancipation), Martin Luther King, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and countless others.

Stop being so partisan all the time and realize that BOTH parties offer good things, any educated person can see that, even me, a registered Democrat, self-proclaimed liberal, and Kerry Supporter. Open your eyes.


FYI, few if any of the Radical Abolitionists were Republicans...or Whigs, or Democrats. Honestly, few if any of the radical Abolitionists were members of any party because few if any of them could have gotten lected to public office. In the years before the Civil War if you had stood up on a stump in any city in America and shouted that black should have equal rights with whites you were more tha likely going to have to bring some big friends to keep from getting beaten senseless. Your chances of winning election were slim to nil.

DolFan31
08-08-2004, 11:23 PM
FYI, few if any of the Radical Abolitionists were Republicans...or Whigs, or Democrats. Honestly, few if any of the radical Abolitionists were members of any party because few if any of them could have gotten lected to public office. In the years before the Civil War if you had stood up on a stump in any city in America and shouted that black should have equal rights with whites you were more tha likely going to have to bring some big friends to keep from getting beaten senseless. Your chances of winning election were slim to nil.

This I got from my American History class, so blame the textbook, but what I was saying is that the Radical Republicans in office post-civil war wanted to give blacks full rights.

http://home.att.net/~history240/history100reconstruction.html

"All reconstruction bills before the Congress thus were carefully argued and measured for their ability to strengthen the Republican Party and further weaken the Democratic Party that was already “in a shambles.” Radical Republicans asserted that the southern Democrats were nothing but a bunch of murderers, traitors and rebels. As far as the northern Democrats were concerned, the Radical Republicans depicted them as “weak-willed” and disloyal, and hostile to progress and economic growth. Such notions reflected the overall northern industrialist sense of social superiority and cultural self-importance. Nevertheless, it became important for the Republicans to show the nation that Reconstruction was a bipartisan effort.

Such policy disagreements resulted in a split in the Republican Party. In opposition to the Radical Republicans were the Moderate Republicans (who held majority popular support); included in their ranks were Abraham Lincoln (1809–65) and his Vice President Andrew Johnson (1808–75) and former Jacksonian-Democrat and slaveholder from Tennessee, who favored a mild policy toward southern reconstruction.

Radical Republicans included Charles Sumner (1811–1874), Benjamin Franklin Wade (1800–1878), and Thaddeus Stevens (1792–1868).

There were five political camps that emerged, each asserting its perspectives with regard to Reconstruction:

Radical Republican objectives:
1) The war should be “justified” by forcing the reshaping of southern society into an image of the North.
2) Punish the Confederate leaders politically (rather than physically or economically); this idea would strengthen the Radical Republican Party hold on the government.

3) Continue the controversial pre-war governmental policies that benefited northern industrialists, such as high tariffs, railroad subsidies, and national banking.

4) Mandate the franchise and economic opportunities for black freedmen.

Moderate northern Democrat and Republican objectives:
1) Establish peace and sectional reconciliation as quickly as possible.

2) Grant amnesty and leniency, allowing for the immediate readmission of the former Confederate states into the Union.

3) Continue capitalist institutions and free enterprise and labor, and land ownership.

4) Encourage local control of government and cultural self-determination, as free as possible from the control of the national government.

5) Provide limited support for black suffrage.

Old Southern Planter Elites and Ex-Confederate objectives:
1) Guarantee protection from the possibility of a black uprising against them; limit the freedom of ex-slaves.

2) Achieve full pardons/ amnesty for participation in the “southern rebellion;” restore confiscated lands to their former southern owners.

3) Reestablish the old traditional plantation economy based in export crop production, using a cheap labor force made up of black freedmen (Mississippi Governor William S. Sharkey was especially adamant regarding this position, denouncing northern suggestions to employ Irish and other European immigrant laborers).

4) Restore traditional southern white conservative political leaders to all offices of government in the South.

5) Reestablish the old paternalistic tradition of racial place and order.

New South (pro-Union) ex-Whigs, businessmen and Yeoman (independent land-holding) farmer objectives:
1) Immediately restore the peace within the Union, and reconcile the differences between the North and the South.

2) Recognize the viability and economic importance of southern Yeoman farmers.

3) Instill greater economic and agricultural diversity; establish railroads and industry in the South.

4) Remove the Old Planter aristocracy from power in the southern states, replacing them with new leaders from diverse economic backgrounds and interests.

5) Limit black suffrage and civil rights.

Black Freedmen objectives:
1) Secure protection from abusive whites and anti-black terrorists.

2) Secure economic independence through independent land ownership – “40 acres and a mule.”

3) Secure educational opportunities to promote black family and cultural cohesiveness.

4) Civil rights; achieve equality under the law (with whites).

5) Franchise – equal opportunities for political participation. "

Most people dont know, but the parties switched places after Teddy Roosevelt, and the Democrats became what was the Radical Republicans, but it took longer for the complete shift, which I think was finalized around the time when Strom Thurmond became a Republican.

PhinPhan1227
08-09-2004, 02:57 AM
Ah..Anti-Diluvium...that's a different story from the environment prior to the war.

Section126
08-09-2004, 10:19 AM
Black Ops,, :roflmao: I was no where close to that, and that's why I was a anamoly...Tis not for you to believe, you haven't lived my life, paid my bills, or suffered any pain for me or with me, except when the phins don't win :D , but other than that, theres no way to prove anything about my life on this board. If you've read my Ft. Sill reveiw and ever been there, then you'll know, but since you don't believe any thing except what a party tells you..well, you kind of lost anyway and there's no way to lead you to light. But I will continue to respect you no matter what..


I made a mistake....I thought you said Black Ops........I have no reason to doubt you did what you did.......Your politics still suck though. :D

themole
08-09-2004, 06:25 PM
You're kidding right? The Republicans are no where close to where our founding fathers intended, so dont confuse the Republicans with the Libertarians. Republicans talk the talk but dont walk the walk, even when theyre the majority. What do you think our founding fathers intended on? Small governemnt? I havent seen the Republicans taken out the Department of Education, nor the Department of Housing and Urban Devolopment, or any other department. In fact, government seems to grow more under Republicans than Democrats. Clinton, the so-called liberal Democrat, cut government's size btw.

You are aware though that changing times through history have made it nearly impossible for this government to be exactly like the government was in 1776. Which is why our founding fathers made it in the constitution that it may be ratified for a "more perfect union", which is whats happened throughout our nation's history.

Tell me what makes the Democratic party a communist party? Have you seen any Democrat come out and say we need a 100% welfare state? Have you seen any Democrat outlaw the private sector and make the country work to the benefit of the community instead for the individual?

Unlike you, as it seems obviously, I have done intense studying on our nation's past, reading biographies of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, John Hancock, and Thomas Paine. Ive studied the constitution, although I must admit it takes several times and different interpreters to understand it with some sections and articles. You do know that some of the best people in our history were considered liberals of their time that include all of the Founding Fathers(since democracy was considered a new idea at the time since it was thousands of years since the Greek and Roman Empires), Fredrick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln(His Republican Party was full of radical liberals of the time that wanted to give former slaves full rights after emancipation), Martin Luther King, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and countless others.

Stop being so partisan all the time and realize that BOTH parties offer good things, any educated person can see that, even me, a registered Democrat, self-proclaimed liberal, and Kerry Supporter. Open your eyes.

1- Considering the fact that over 51% of the people employed in America today work for the government in some form or fashion, the republicans would never see incumbency again if they tried to cut like they want to.

That very fact should tell you americans are well on their way to old josephs serfdom. It's socialism Pal!

2- I beg to differ with you! It ain't a more perfect union. We are over taxed, over lawed and have become a nation of sheep. Headed like lambs to the slaughter. Just read your presious democratic platform. It vows to undo all the harm it caused us under eight years of the Clinton Admin. Rebuild the military, strenghten our intelligence dept. gutted by who? Your party! It's VERY easy to sit back and take pot shots when you are not being held accountable. Hind sight is 20/20. Yes let's give up all our sovereignty and stroll hand in hand with the U.N., allowing them to decide what our destiny will be!

3- As far as your intense studying...You were only six when Clinton gutted our military, cut the intellingence community to shreds and sold off top secret documents to China and who knows who else. If you have truly read and studied all of the works of the fore fathers you claim...there is NO WAY you could support the democrats. There is a lot of finger pointing to be done at the repubilcans also, but that's another story yet to be addressed.

Teddy Roosevelt, was not a liberial! I love liberialism....as long as the cloak of socialism is removed from it.

Don't talk to me about partisanship! To many of your post have been nothing but the party line and most pure unadulterated propaganda by the fool Michael Moore.

Open my eyes? My eyes have been opened three times longer than yours. That's a lot of life and experience compared to your all knowing 18. ;)

DolFan31
08-09-2004, 06:56 PM
1- Considering the fact that over 51% of the people employed in America today work for the government in some form or fashion, the republicans would never see incumbency again if they tried to cut like they want to.

That very fact should tell you americans are well on their way to old josephs serfdom. It's socialism Pal!

2- I beg to differ with you! It ain't a more perfect union. We are over taxed, over lawed and have become a nation of sheep. Headed like lambs to the slaughter. Just read your presious democratic platform. It vows to undo all the harm it caused us under eight years of the Clinton Admin. Rebuild the military, strenghten our intelligence dept. gutted by who? Your party! It's VERY easy to sit back and take pot shots when you are not being held accountable. Hind sight is 20/20. Yes let's give up all our sovereignty and stroll hand in hand with the U.N., allowing them to decide what our destiny will be!

3- As far as your intense studying...You were only six when Clinton gutted our military, cut the intellingence community to shreds and sold off top secret documents to China and who knows who else. If you have truly read and studied all of the works of the fore fathers you claim...there is NO WAY you could support the democrats. There is a lot of finger pointing to be done at the repubilcans also, but that's another story yet to be addressed.

Teddy Roosevelt, was not a liberial! I love liberialism....as long as the cloak of socialism is removed from it.

Don't talk to me about partisanship! To many of your post have been nothing but the party line and most pure unadulterated propaganda by the fool Michael Moore.

Open my eyes? My eyes have been opened three times longer than yours. That's a lot of life and experience compared to your all knowing 18. ;)

:splat:

Whoa, whoa, whoa..!

There's so much in your post that I could debate about, but you know what, Im not going to. Nothing I can say can make you change your mind about things. Im just going to leave it at that.

themole
08-09-2004, 07:11 PM
:splat:

Whoa, whoa, whoa..!

There's so much in your post that I could debate about, but you know what, Im not going to. Nothing I can say can make you change your mind about things. Im just going to leave it at that.


GOOD!

DolFan31
08-09-2004, 07:14 PM
GOOD!

As long as you dont think you won the debate. :D

themole
08-09-2004, 07:23 PM
As long as you dont think you won the debate. :D

Debates only polarize. Only fools and democrats think they have won in a debate. Hey..aren't they one in the same? :D

DolFan31
08-09-2004, 07:27 PM
Debates only polarize. Only fools and democrats think they have won in a debate. Hey..aren't they one in the same? :D

:shakeno: