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View Full Version : Kerrys "brothers" talk about him in new ad



PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 04:44 PM
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html

Nothing like hearing from those who knew him so well.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 05:23 PM
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html

Nothing like hearing from those who knew him so well.

It's funny how none of those men served with John Kerry on the swift boat, most are just saying they served with him because they went to war with him. I mean come on, get people that knew the man and were with him all the time because not one of those other men on his swift boat would call him anything other than a hero.

t2thejz
08-05-2004, 05:29 PM
not one of those other men on his swift boat would call him anything other than a hero.
:shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: 2 people on the swift boat support him, probably because they were just like him, the rest know he is a phony

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 05:34 PM
It's funny how none of those men served with John Kerry on the swift boat, most are just saying they served with him because they went to war with him. I mean come on, get people that knew the man and were with him all the time because not one of those other men on his swift boat would call him anything other than a hero.

Care to place some money on that assertion?

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 06:02 PM
Care to place some money on that assertion?
I'm not debating that most Vietnam Veterans don't like the guy because he went before Congress. There have been two people who were on his swift boat that made statements for Kerry saying he saved their lives. The other 18 people on the boat have not commented on the situation and this Book is by military commanders who probably only met Kerry once, if at all. That's what I'm debating. I'm debating the "closeness" these so called people who "served" with him actually were.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 06:11 PM
I'm not debating that most Vietnam Veterans don't like the guy because he went before Congress. There have been two people who were on his swift boat that made statements for Kerry saying he saved their lives. The other 18 people on the boat have not commented on the situation and this Book is by military commanders who probably only met Kerry once, if at all. That's what I'm debating. I'm debating the "closeness" these so called people who "served" with him actually were.

Firstly, there is one shipmate of Kerry's who has come forward and stated that he does NOT support Kerry and disagrees with some of Kerry's stories for what went on. So "not one of those other men on his swift boat would call him anything other than a hero" is patently incorrect. That's one guy who was on the boat with him. The rest are men who served with him on other boats in the same unit. Think of them as working in the same department as you, but just not on your team. They were involved in the same actions, the same battles, and the same combat. I think that gives them the right to comment. Especially since these are fellow Lt's. They were KErry's peers.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 06:18 PM
Firstly, there is one shipmate of Kerry's who has come forward and stated that he does NOT support Kerry and disagrees with some of Kerry's stories for what went on. So "not one of those other men on his swift boat would call him anything other than a hero" is patently incorrect. That's one guy who was on the boat with him. The rest are men who served with him on other boats in the same unit. Think of them as working in the same department as you, but just not on your team. They were involved in the same actions, the same battles, and the same combat. I think that gives them the right to comment. Especially since these are fellow Lt's. They were KErry's peers.
I"m not saying they shouldn't have the right to comment because that infringes on the first ammendment rights, but to state that you know a man because you were in the same unit is a stretch. I would venture to say that a lot of these units hardly ever meet one another. Some people might actually know him, I'm not denying that, but all I'm saying is that most of these people probably weren't very close to Kerry and are screaming foul because he went in front of Congress, not because they knew him.

ABrownLamp
08-05-2004, 06:21 PM
Let's ask GWBs military buddies what they thought of him. Oh wait...

It's weird how no one claims to have ever served with him don't you think? Gary Trudeau (Doonsberry) offered $10,000 dollars to anyone who can say they served with him.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 06:21 PM
I"m not saying they shouldn't have the right to comment because that infringes on the first ammendment rights, but to state that you know a man because you were in the same unit is a stretch. I would venture to say that a lot of these units hardly ever meet one another. Some people might actually know him, I'm not denying that, but all I'm saying is that most of these people probably weren't very close to Kerry and are screaming foul because he went in front of Congress, not because they knew him.

Wrong. Even the Kerry people admit that most of these guys were within 50 feet of Kerry when these events took place. And these are Swift Boats, not destroyers. They spent a LOT of time in port. Lt's hang around with each other and actually fraternize MORE than the enlisted men on Kerry's boat would have. Again, think of it as the team leaders in your department. Maybe you spend more actual time with them, but when they go to lunch together they talk about things between each other that you never get to hear.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 06:24 PM
Wrong. Even the Kerry people admit that most of these guys were within 50 feet of Kerry when these events took place. And these are Swift Boats, not destroyers. They spent a LOT of time in port. Lt's hang around with each other and actually fraternize MORE than the enlisted men on Kerry's boat would have. Again, think of it as the team leaders in your department. Maybe you spend more actual time with them, but when they go to lunch together they talk about things between each other that you never get to hear.
It's a proven fact that he only spent 4 months serving, are you saying in that four months he was there, they got to 'mingle' in these ports for a long time? Just because they were within 50 feet of the guy doesn't mean they were aboard his ship talking to him.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 06:39 PM
Wrong. Even the Kerry people admit that most of these guys were within 50 feet of Kerry when these events took place. And these are Swift Boats, not destroyers. They spent a LOT of time in port. Lt's hang around with each other and actually fraternize MORE than the enlisted men on Kerry's boat would have. Again, think of it as the team leaders in your department. Maybe you spend more actual time with them, but when they go to lunch together they talk about things between each other that you never get to hear.
"The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day — Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying." Good to hear from the people who were actually on the boat.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 07:00 PM
It's a proven fact that he only spent 4 months serving, are you saying in that four months he was there, they got to 'mingle' in these ports for a long time? Just because they were within 50 feet of the guy doesn't mean they were aboard his ship talking to him.

These guys were going up rivers on patrols. They probably spent almost every DAY in port for some period of time. Swift boats don't go on week long patrols. They patrol, and then they return to port. They support an assault, and then they return to port. Again, these aren't ships, these are boats. They're the Navy's version of a platoon. In point of fact these guys probably spent PLENTY of time with Kerry.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 07:11 PM
"The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day — Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying." Good to hear from the people who were actually on the boat.

Want to hear from the guy on the boat with Kerry?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/11/kerry_no_hero_in_ex_crewmans_eyes/

Steven Gardner served as Kerry's Gunner and HE supports Bush.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 07:23 PM
Want to hear from the guy on the boat with Kerry?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/11/kerry_no_hero_in_ex_crewmans_eyes/

Steven Gardner served as Kerry's Gunner and HE supports Bush.

Of course he's going to support Bush, he's a die hard Republican, look at the article they even make reference to his "Slick Willy" quote. It's a sad day in America when someone has concern for their fellow soilders health and gets criticized for it.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 07:55 PM
Of course he's going to support Bush, he's a die hard Republican, look at the article they even make reference to his "Slick Willy" quote. It's a sad day in America when someone has concern for their fellow soilders health and gets criticized for it.

Hey, I give Kerry credit for having his boatmates support him. There are some who think they were bought off...I think they just agree with Kerry's views and appreciate him as a commander...fine. But not ALL his boatmates agree with him. And virtually EVERY one of his fellow commanders...the guys who were his peers...have spoken out AGAINST him. THEY have NOTHING good to say about him. Are all of them Republicans? Did he steal all their girlfriends? What's THEIR motivation? What underhanded evil motivation is behind ALL of these men speaking out against him? They are also decorated veterans(with better decorations than KErry). They are also purple heart recipients. Almost all of them spent MUCH longer in Vietnam than Kerry. Have you seen the list of signators at Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? Thats a LONG list of people who were there. A much longer list of vets against KErry than those FOR Kerry. Answer that question...what nefarious agenda do THEY have?

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 08:01 PM
Hey, I give Kerry credit for having his boatmates support him. There are some who think they were bought off...I think they just agree with Kerry's views and appreciate him as a commander...fine. But not ALL his boatmates agree with him. And virtually EVERY one of his fellow commanders...the guys who were his peers...have spoken out AGAINST him. THEY have NOTHING good to say about him. Are all of them Republicans? Did he steal all their girlfriends? What's THEIR motivation? What underhanded evil motivation is behind ALL of these men speaking out against him? They are also decorated veterans(with better decorations than KErry). They are also purple heart recipients. Almost all of them spent MUCH longer in Vietnam than Kerry. Have you seen the list of signators at Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? Thats a LONG list of people who were there. A much longer list of vets against KErry than those FOR Kerry. Answer that question...what nefarious agenda do THEY have?

You can answer that question for yourself. You once said that Vieterans of Vietnam were against Kerry because he spoke out in front of Congress. Think that's motivation enough? If they make Kerry look like an a-hole then it makes their service look better.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 08:16 PM
You can answer that question for yourself. You once said that Vieterans of Vietnam were against Kerry because he spoke out in front of Congress. Think that's motivation enough? If they make Kerry look like an a-hole then it makes their service look better.


Ok fine, take that to the next step. If the vast majority think Kerry was wrong for doing that, what does that say? As a corolary to that, are you suggesting that they are lying? How big of a conspiracy do you think KErry's actions would create?

ABrownLamp
08-05-2004, 08:27 PM
Hey, I give Kerry credit for having his boatmates support him. There are some who think they were bought off...I think they just agree with Kerry's views and appreciate him as a commander...fine. But not ALL his boatmates agree with him. And virtually EVERY one of his fellow commanders...the guys who were his peers...have spoken out AGAINST him. THEY have NOTHING good to say about him. Are all of them Republicans? Did he steal all their girlfriends? What's THEIR motivation? What underhanded evil motivation is behind ALL of these men speaking out against him? They are also decorated veterans(with better decorations than KErry). They are also purple heart recipients. Almost all of them spent MUCH longer in Vietnam than Kerry. Have you seen the list of signators at Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? Thats a LONG list of people who were there. A much longer list of vets against KErry than those FOR Kerry. Answer that question...what nefarious agenda do THEY have?
Most of the things they criticize Kerry for are during his tenure in office. The military diatribes are ancillary. Yes they are all Republican. This is a political agenda, that's why they are speaking out against him. Would it make any sense otherwise? Ya, Kerry is a phoney and a horrible leader, but I support him for President. Does that makes sense to you?
I bet you these commercials are funded by the Republican party too. How did this veteran's organization attain the money to run these ads anyway?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 10:12 PM
Most of the things they criticize Kerry for are during his tenure in office. The military diatribes are ancillary. Yes they are all Republican. This is a political agenda, that's why they are speaking out against him. Would it make any sense otherwise? Ya, Kerry is a phoney and a horrible leader, but I support him for President. Does that makes sense to you?
I bet you these commercials are funded by the Republican party too. How did this veteran's organization attain the money to run these ads anyway?


They are only running in a few markets. And I find it funny that virtually every officer that served in or around Kerry is a Republican with an ulterior motive. That's a pretty amazing statistic. Who knew that out of dozens of officers in the Swift Boat corp, there was only ONE Democrat. How freaky... :rolleyes:

DolFan31
08-05-2004, 10:23 PM
They are only running in a few markets. And I find it funny that virtually every officer that served in or around Kerry is a Republican with an ulterior motive. That's a pretty amazing statistic. Who knew that out of dozens of officers in the Swift Boat corp, there was only ONE Democrat. How freaky... :rolleyes:

Have you ever considered that maybe those guys are lying and are doing it for the money?

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 10:30 PM
Have you ever considered that maybe those guys are lying and are doing it for the money?


What money? These guys have spent THIER money to run this organization and these ads. Which is more likely, that 189 of swift boat veterans are lying, or that 8-9 guys are lying?

ohall
08-05-2004, 10:50 PM
Have you ever considered that maybe those guys are lying and are doing it for the money?

Yeah I think Kerry definetly is prob paying his guys well. Good point. After all he's richer than all the Bush's combined!

Oliver...

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 11:08 PM
What money? These guys have spent THIER money to run this organization and these ads. Which is more likely, that 189 of swift boat veterans are lying, or that 8-9 guys are lying?

I choose to believe the people who were actually there over someones recollection of what happened when they were "in close proximity, sometimes." That's the words he used on foxs news. The main contributor for the swift boat veterans spent 100,000 to every one else's 50,000 combined. Coincidence that he's giving Bush a lot of money for his campain, I think not.

PhinPhan1227
08-05-2004, 11:18 PM
I choose to believe the people who were actually there over someones recollection of what happened when they were "in close proximity, sometimes." That's the words he used on foxs news. The main contributor for the swift boat veterans spent 100,000 to every one else's 50,000 combined. Coincidence that he's giving Bush a lot of money for his campain, I think not.


The guy was less than 50 feet away!!! In combat that's as "actually there" as it GETS! And once again, you're going to tell me that 189 guys that were THERE...that were in that unit, are ALL wrong. They are wrong but 8 ither guys are right. Oh, and one of the guys IN the boat...agrees with the other 189 guys.

caneproud117
08-05-2004, 11:35 PM
The guy was less than 50 feet away!!! In combat that's as "actually there" as it GETS! And once again, you're going to tell me that 189 guys that were THERE...that were in that unit, are ALL wrong. They are wrong but 8 ither guys are right. Oh, and one of the guys IN the boat...agrees with the other 189 guys.

Yes I'm saying that 189 guys that were within seeing distance were so concerned with seeing what Kerry was doing that they took note of everything that he did. Hmmm or is it more likely that they just don't like the guy for going in front of congress and are making this up? The thing about people who are angry at you, they tend to make things up. Somebody in the boat could also be upset over what Kerry did, it's very likely actually.

DolFan31
08-06-2004, 12:14 AM
Yes I'm saying that 189 guys that were within seeing distance were so concerned with seeing what Kerry was doing that they took note of everything that he did. Hmmm or is it more likely that they just don't like the guy for going in front of congress and are making this up? The thing about people who are angry at you, they tend to make things up. Somebody in the boat could also be upset over what Kerry did, it's very likely actually.

Add to that that a majority of military people, active, reserve, and vet are usually Republican.

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 01:37 AM
Add to that that a majority of military people, active, reserve, and vet are usually Republican.


The majority, fine. But 1 Democrat and 189 Republicans is a little bit of a steep slant don't you think?

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 01:42 AM
Yes I'm saying that 189 guys that were within seeing distance were so concerned with seeing what Kerry was doing that they took note of everything that he did. Hmmm or is it more likely that they just don't like the guy for going in front of congress and are making this up? The thing about people who are angry at you, they tend to make things up. Somebody in the boat could also be upset over what Kerry did, it's very likely actually.


Considering that Kerry's boat seems to have been the only one with any action going on(the other guy was 50 feet away and none of them got hurt or fired a shot), I think all eyes would have been on them. All that aside, once again, if a guy does something that so enrages EVERY one of their fellow officers that they would be willing to forsake their oaths as officers and lie, what does that tell you? Are those 189 decorated officers bad guys? Are those recipients of Bronze and Silver stars, Purple Hearts and numerous other awards...are those officers and gentlemen ALL bad men? How in the world did the NAvy screw up THAT badly that they got one decent guy and 189 a$$holes all in the same unit?

caneproud117
08-06-2004, 10:04 AM
Considering that Kerry's boat seems to have been the only one with any action going on(the other guy was 50 feet away and none of them got hurt or fired a shot), I think all eyes would have been on them. All that aside, once again, if a guy does something that so enrages EVERY one of their fellow officers that they would be willing to forsake their oaths as officers and lie, what does that tell you? Are those 189 decorated officers bad guys? Are those recipients of Bronze and Silver stars, Purple Hearts and numerous other awards...are those officers and gentlemen ALL bad men? How in the world did the NAvy screw up THAT badly that they got one decent guy and 189 a$$holes all in the same unit?
According to them, Kerry forsake his oath as a swift boat captain when he went and complained to Congress about the war. It's more of a he did it, so we're going to do it too to get back at him kind of deal. I never said that I thought what Kerry did was right in front of Congress, but I believe he thought that it was the right thing to do. It's not an issue of bad or good guys, it's an issue of revenge. Revenge that mostly every person in the world feels when they get called out.

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 10:34 AM
According to them, Kerry forsake his oath as a swift boat captain when he went and complained to Congress about the war. It's more of a he did it, so we're going to do it too to get back at him kind of deal. I never said that I thought what Kerry did was right in front of Congress, but I believe he thought that it was the right thing to do. It's not an issue of bad or good guys, it's an issue of revenge. Revenge that mostly every person in the world feels when they get called out.

That is certainly part of it, as their own organization states. But I still think it's a bit extreme to think that 189 men would all lie.

Clumpy
08-06-2004, 10:38 AM
One of the major contributors to the ad has "flip-flopped"

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

PhinPhan1227
08-06-2004, 11:48 AM
I'd like to hear more about WHY he recanted that opinion. One thing of note however, this guy was never an eye witness to any of the events in the first place. He was Kerry's CO so he was going on someone elses word anyway.

BigFinFan
08-06-2004, 12:20 PM
The latest Kerry Show can be seen here (http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com)