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View Full Version : Replacing Income Tax with Sales Tax?



Bling
08-11-2004, 04:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040811/pl_nm/campaign_bush_taxes_dc_1&printer=1

iceblizzard69
08-11-2004, 06:05 PM
I consider myself to be more to the right than the left when talking about economic issues but I think that both a flat tax and national sales tax are horrible ideas. I have no problems with tax cuts (as long as spending goes down as well), but I believe in a gradual income tax. I think there are many problems with a national sales tax, including:

1. It will make it harder for the lower and middle classes to afford things. Sure, they will not be paying income tax, but items will be significantly higher in cost. A national sales tax would obviously be the same for everyone and in the end it would screw everyone but the rich.

2. A national sales tax would screw the youth and the elderly. I have a job and pay very little tax. A national sales tax would screw me over because I will be paying a lot more to the government than I currently do. State sales tax where I live is already too high anyway. Also, the elderly who collect social security would also get screwed because they would be giving a lot more to the government as well. Also, elderly people as a whole vote more than anyone else, so if you screw them, you aren't going to get their vote.

Overall, I think a national sales tax is a stupid idea. A gradual income tax is the best thing for America. I don't mind tax cuts at all, but I do mind a national sales tax as it screws everyone except for a small portion of Americans.

PhinPhan1227
08-11-2004, 06:33 PM
I consider myself to be more to the right than the left when talking about economic issues but I think that both a flat tax and national sales tax are horrible ideas. I have no problems with tax cuts (as long as spending goes down as well), but I believe in a gradual income tax. I think there are many problems with a national sales tax, including:

1. It will make it harder for the lower and middle classes to afford things. Sure, they will not be paying income tax, but items will be significantly higher in cost. A national sales tax would obviously be the same for everyone and in the end it would screw everyone but the rich.

2. A national sales tax would screw the youth and the elderly. I have a job and pay very little tax. A national sales tax would screw me over because I will be paying a lot more to the government than I currently do. State sales tax where I live is already too high anyway. Also, the elderly who collect social security would also get screwed because they would be giving a lot more to the government as well. Also, elderly people as a whole vote more than anyone else, so if you screw them, you aren't going to get their vote.

Overall, I think a national sales tax is a stupid idea. A gradual income tax is the best thing for America. I don't mind tax cuts at all, but I do mind a national sales tax as it screws everyone except for a small portion of Americans.


As I read it a lot of the items lower income people pay would be tax exempt.

Clumpy
08-12-2004, 04:29 AM
It's not a good idea. It replaces a progressive tax system with a regressive one.

MDFINFAN
08-12-2004, 06:46 PM
As I read it a lot of the items lower income people pay would be tax exempt.

Link please, I would like to read this proposal.

Section126
08-12-2004, 07:18 PM
I am against it........

cmax13
08-13-2004, 09:56 AM
but the basics like milk, bread, basic food aren't taxed now, so the lower income people can still afford to live. the people that can afford high dollar cars, watches, boats etc. can then afford to pay more taxes. this will get a lot of money from those that don't file tax forms at all (drug dealers, prostitutes, mob people, etc.) that have a large cash flow.

plus nobody will be paying taxes through their employer every payday, so there will be more income directly to the worker.

i think it makes a lot more sense, and it's harder for lawyers to find loopholes so more people should pay their fair share.

i haven't heard the exact proposals, but so far it seems like a step in the right direction. i mean everyone in most states pay sales tax now, and don't think much about it, so another percentage on top of that, will become as painless shortly after implementation.

i'd sure like to have in my paycheck every two weeks, what my employer is taking from me currently.

iceblizzard69
08-13-2004, 10:31 AM
but the basics like milk, bread, basic food aren't taxed now, so the lower income people can still afford to live. the people that can afford high dollar cars, watches, boats etc. can then afford to pay more taxes. this will get a lot of money from those that don't file tax forms at all (drug dealers, prostitutes, mob people, etc.) that have a large cash flow.

plus nobody will be paying taxes through their employer every payday, so there will be more income directly to the worker.

i think it makes a lot more sense, and it's harder for lawyers to find loopholes so more people should pay their fair share.

i haven't heard the exact proposals, but so far it seems like a step in the right direction. i mean everyone in most states pay sales tax now, and don't think much about it, so another percentage on top of that, will become as painless shortly after implementation.

i'd sure like to have in my paycheck every two weeks, what my employer is taking from me currently.

First of all, food may not be taxed where you live but that doesn't mean it isn't taxed in other places. People need to realize that for a national sales tax to work, the sales tax would have to be incredibly high. It isn't like they can charge 5% and that would work. If there is going to be a national sales tax, I would guess that it will be higher than 30%. Yeah, you may be getting more in your paycheck, but you will be spending a lot more money though. The thing about a national sales tax would be that it can only be applied to money that is spent, so if someone puts money in the bank, that money isn't being taxed. That will result in a lot more money that people are making that isn't being taxed. Overall, it's just a stupid tax system that will really screw many people, espicially those who already struggle to pay their bills every month. The best tax system to go with is a graduated income tax, a national sales tax will just screw lots of people.

cmax13
08-13-2004, 11:45 AM
ice,

i'd be willing to bet that basic food is not taxed in any city or state. processed food that you buy in a resturant sure, but not milk, bread, eggs, lettuce, etc.

in any other system the lawyers will be involved and be getting most people out of their "fair share".

there are too many people that need too many things, so the people that would save their money instead of spending, would be negligible.

plus, there are too many people that make money now and don't even file tax returns, so they aren't paying anything.

i think it would make everyone pay, which is the basic goal. if you're a macdonalds worker, your tax outlay would be minimal, but if you're buying a lexus, rolex, mercedes, etc., it would be much higher.


i personally haven't heard any figures for what a national sales tax would be, but i would hope that your 30% figure is way off, and i would hope that it would be more like 10%, since there would be more people paying in, plus the whole bureaucracy dealing with the existing tax code wouldn't exist at all, there hopefully wouldn't be a need to go to 30%.

but right now this is all theorhetical since there are no figures. i personally wouldn't want to pay 30% tax on everything, would you be willing to pay 10%?

PhinPhan1227
08-13-2004, 12:03 PM
First of all, food may not be taxed where you live but that doesn't mean it isn't taxed in other places. People need to realize that for a national sales tax to work, the sales tax would have to be incredibly high. It isn't like they can charge 5% and that would work. If there is going to be a national sales tax, I would guess that it will be higher than 30%. Yeah, you may be getting more in your paycheck, but you will be spending a lot more money though. The thing about a national sales tax would be that it can only be applied to money that is spent, so if someone puts money in the bank, that money isn't being taxed. That will result in a lot more money that people are making that isn't being taxed. Overall, it's just a stupid tax system that will really screw many people, espicially those who already struggle to pay their bills every month. The best tax system to go with is a graduated income tax, a national sales tax will just screw lots of people.


Bear in mind however that the goods you are buying have already been taxed once in the current system. So by eliminating the income tax, the actual cost before sales tax of the goods would go down. Further, your percentage might be a bit high. Firstly, money put into a savings account isn't taxed now if done properly. Secondly, consider all the people who don't pay income tax now who SHOULD, but avoid it either through legal loopholes, or illegally. It's hard to be sneaky when the person at the cash register is the one collecting the tax. So right there, if you are getting all the money you SHOULD have been gettying, that should offset any minor losses. But honestly, I can't think of too many. If you invest, you're going to pay the sales tax. The nice thing will be that you won't be taxed REPEATEDLY for the same money, which is the case now.

MDFINFAN
08-13-2004, 12:58 PM
Bear in mind however that the goods you are buying have already been taxed once in the current system. So by eliminating the income tax, the actual cost before sales tax of the goods would go down. Further, your percentage might be a bit high. Firstly, money put into a savings account isn't taxed now if done properly. Secondly, consider all the people who don't pay income tax now who SHOULD, but avoid it either through legal loopholes, or illegally. It's hard to be sneaky when the person at the cash register is the one collecting the tax. So right there, if you are getting all the money you SHOULD have been gettying, that should offset any minor losses. But honestly, I can't think of too many. If you invest, you're going to pay the sales tax. The nice thing will be that you won't be taxed REPEATEDLY for the same money, which is the case now.

PP1227, where are you getting this info? Is this the one Ross P. put out or some other. You seem to be quoting from something, but what? I just want to see a bill that's fair and if you know of one, please share.

WeVie
08-13-2004, 02:07 PM
[QUOTE=cmax13]ice,

i'd be willing to bet that basic food is not taxed in any city or state. processed food that you buy in a resturant sure, but not milk, bread, eggs, lettuce, etc.




[QUOTE]


How much would you be willing to bet on that one?? I live in Virginia and our sales tax is 4.5% no matter if is a TV or a candy bar or a gallon of milk. pre perpared food at a resturant or deli or whatever is 8.75%. We have to pay 3% sales tax on an automoblie also. We are sales taxed to death here. Plus the state income tax. At the salary I make which is about $40000 a year I have to pay another 4% or so on that.

The national sales tax may help me myself though because at my salary I pay about 15% federal tax. If the national tax would be about 10% then that may be better for me because then I would be paying that on only what I pay instead of the paying on what I make although I am not sure if it would be the best way to go. You would have alot more paying that has'nt before like the one guy said. It's hard to tax drug money but not so hard to make someone pay sales tax on the boat or car they buy with the drug money.

Bling
08-13-2004, 10:31 PM
I highly doubt Bush is going to really walk the talk.