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Karl_12
08-11-2004, 10:15 PM
I have only been here a short while but I can tell that this board leans to the right. Through out the majority of post all I have read is Kerry is Vietnam a fraud, a flip flopper, and what not and how Bush is a strong leader and makes deceive decisions. I have heard very few republicans questioning one thing he has done past or present, and they praise him like he is Jesus Christ reincarnated. What I want to know is do any Bush supporters have any criticisms for him? Is there any decision that he made that you didn't agree with? Before you start attacking me I have some doubts about Kerry. That is all I want to know.

PhinPhan1227
08-11-2004, 10:30 PM
-Shouldn't have depended on WMD's for Iraq. There were better reasons to focus on.
-Should have included the Clerics in Iraq earlier
-Shouldn't have allowed himself to be pulled Right when he became President. He was very Moderate as a Governor
-Tends to be TOO rigid
-Tends to surround himself with people who are ALSO too rigid, thus exacerbating that trait rather than balancing it
-Should have stayed out of the gay marriage debate
-Tax cuts a bit too broad
-Should have gone on television the day after 9/11 and said something to the effect that the government let those people down, even though it didn't really
-Has pushed the limits with the PAtriot Act


is that good enough for a start?

Phinzone
08-11-2004, 10:58 PM
obviously we have problems with bush. Once again we're stuck in an election where we're voting for "the lesser of the two evils" unfortunately. If there was a liberal president who I thought was a great candidate I'd take him over bush in a SECOND.

Bush if far from perfect, but he's doing the best he can. Of course he'snot perfect but like I said he's the lesser of the two evils IMO.

1. like Phinphan said he shouldn't have depended so much on WMD for going into Iraq. There were MANY other reasons to go that were as good as WMD.

2. I would have liked him to have waited a wee bit longer before going into Iraq. I fully agree that we should have gone in, but I would have liked to have given the UN a chance to come around a bit more.

3. Bush shouldn't have cut countries that didn't support us out of the loop when signign oil deals. No they don't have a right to those profits, however I think it would have gone a long way in mending relations with them.

4. The steel tariff's don't make an ounce of sense in my mind. Can someone explain to me what is going on there?

5. I agree his supporters are very right winged. This leads to rubbing a lot of people the wrong way on certain issues. T

6. I disagree with his stance on gay marriages. He should give a little and accept a move towards a civil union rather than beign outright against it.

PhinPhan1227
08-11-2004, 11:42 PM
obviously we have problems with bush. Once again we're stuck in an election where we're voting for "the lesser of the two evils" unfortunately. If there was a liberal president who I thought was a great candidate I'd take him over bush in a SECOND.

Bush if far from perfect, but he's doing the best he can. Of course he'snot perfect but like I said he's the lesser of the two evils IMO.

1. like Phinphan said he shouldn't have depended so much on WMD for going into Iraq. There were MANY other reasons to go that were as good as WMD.

2. I would have liked him to have waited a wee bit longer before going into Iraq. I fully agree that we should have gone in, but I would have liked to have given the UN a chance to come around a bit more.

3. Bush shouldn't have cut countries that didn't support us out of the loop when signign oil deals. No they don't have a right to those profits, however I think it would have gone a long way in mending relations with them.

4. The steel tariff's don't make an ounce of sense in my mind. Can someone explain to me what is going on there?

5. I agree his supporters are very right winged. This leads to rubbing a lot of people the wrong way on certain issues. T

6. I disagree with his stance on gay marriages. He should give a little and accept a move towards a civil union rather than beign outright against it.


Actually, the steel thing was fine. It was a temporary measure designed to get the industry over a rough spot. Once it was back on it's feet the tariffs were removed so that American industries that BUY steel wouldn't suffer longer than needed.

Fin_Fanatic
08-12-2004, 03:13 AM
my biggest problem with him was allowing one time illegal immigrants to become citizens after a certain amount of time in the country. our borders already had enough problems before we basically told em to try and get more people in the country

ohall
08-12-2004, 04:57 AM
my biggest problem with him was allowing one time illegal immigrants to become citizens after a certain amount of time in the country. our borders already had enough problems before we basically told em to try and get more people in the country

Same for me, and he has spent entirely too much on Government.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
08-12-2004, 10:56 AM
my biggest problem with him was allowing one time illegal immigrants to become citizens after a certain amount of time in the country. our borders already had enough problems before we basically told em to try and get more people in the country


Actually, unlike Clinton he didn't offer an Amnesty. He actually created a plan to deal with the situation. I don't know if it would work, but again, at least it was a plan to cure the problem and not just bandage to wound.

Section126
08-12-2004, 11:25 AM
Of course we have problems with Bush...

My problems with him are these:

1. Spends like a liberal Democrat.

2. Allows himself to get rolled by the Dems in the minority in congress.

3. Bends over backwards to accomadate John McCain...Is John McCain president?

4. The WMD argument was made too singularly...he kept going back to it...when their was a whole host of reasons to go into Iraq.

5. Was too loyal to some real morons that he had early in his administration...(O'Neill, Lindsey, Pitt.)

P4E
08-12-2004, 12:24 PM
Of course we have problems with Bush...

My problems with him are these:

1. Spends like a liberal Democrat.

2. Allows himself to get rolled by the Dems in the minority in congress.

3. Bends over backwards to accomadate John McCain...Is John McCain president?

4. The WMD argument was made too singularly...he kept going back to it...when their was a whole host of reasons to go into Iraq.

5. Was too loyal to some real morons that he had early in his administration...(O'Neill, Lindsey, Pitt.)
Mind if I affix my John Hancock to this, too?

Bling
08-12-2004, 02:43 PM
Truthfully, if you go to the main board, more people have John Kerry signs than Bush signs. If you want some left wing spin, go talk to SABURZFAN, and LoG on BillsZone.


I have only been here a short while but I can tell that this board leans to the right. Through out the majority of post all I have read is Kerry is Vietnam a fraud, a flip flopper, and what not and how Bush is a strong leader and makes deceive decisions. I have heard very few republicans questioning one thing he has done past or present, and they praise him like he is Jesus Christ reincarnated. What I want to know is do any Bush supporters have any criticisms for him? Is there any decision that he made that you didn't agree with? Before you start attacking me I have some doubts about Kerry. That is all I want to know.


1-Ban on gay marriage. I'm a big-time Catholic. I'm so far to the right on Abortion. Probably go to church more than the majority here. However, I agree with liberals on gay marriage. How many gay people are picked on? Why do you think it takes a long time for teens to come out of the closet? Why can't we give them a right everyone else does? Because they're doing something bad? If a state wants gay people to get married, let the state decide.


2-Spends way too much. I love the tax cuts, but it doesn't mix with big government.


3-Should have tried harder to get the UN/countries into Iraq. It isn't easy to watch your kids die, but no matter what, we can't just withdraw. That only leads to more hell. The only way to speed up the process is get more countries into Iraq.

except for that, he's pretty good in my book.

Bling
08-12-2004, 02:47 PM
you too need to change your sig.

I got plenty of complaints about my sigs. I think it's only fair unless we all get the right back:D

t2thejz
08-12-2004, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE=Section126]Of course we have problems with Bush...

My problems with him are these:

1. Spends like a liberal Democrat.

2. Allows himself to get rolled by the Dems in the minority in congress.

QUOTE]
Those are the 2 biggies

MDFINFAN
08-12-2004, 04:51 PM
-Shouldn't have depended on WMD's for Iraq. There were better reasons to focus on.
-Should have included the Clerics in Iraq earlier
-Shouldn't have allowed himself to be pulled Right when he became President. He was very Moderate as a Governor
-Tends to be TOO rigid
-Tends to surround himself with people who are ALSO too rigid, thus exacerbating that trait rather than balancing it
-Should have stayed out of the gay marriage debate
-Tax cuts a bit too broad
-Should have gone on television the day after 9/11 and said something to the effect that the government let those people down, even though it didn't really
-Has pushed the limits with the PAtriot Act


is that good enough for a start?

Was that PP1227, I'm so proud of you..hey wait a minute, why shouldn't he have depended on WMD for iraq, you've defended him on that in all our debates. BTW this is a good post. The same should be done for Kerry supporters. So you do feel some things have gone too far, that's good, I do wish we had better Canidates from both parties to choose from. Personally I don't see much difference between Bush and Kerry except for Kerry is more articulator. He'd probably handle some things differently because of his background..I do think he will mend fences with our allies.

DolFan31
08-12-2004, 07:06 PM
Since its only fair..

Problems I have with Kerry:

-Doesnt do a very good job saying what he will do as President. Ok we already know how bad Bush is, now tell us what you're going to about it! Lucky for me, I went to his website and read all of his stances on issues. Most people wont do that though, and its his job to inform voters.

-Too wooden, much like Gore. That scares me because people are voting less on the issues and more on personality, which is troubling.

-Isnt that great of a speaker, but not many can top Clinton, Bush II, Reagan and JFK.

-Needs to undo what Gore did in 2000 and not distance himself from Clinton. Sure he hasnt pull a Gore as of yet, but Id like him to show himself with Clinton more, to get more moderates and Independants who liked Clinton to vote for him. I know he wants to be his own man, and thats fine, but dont overdo it by not showing yourself with a still very popular former President.

-Has to stop trying to be a Kennedy. I see it too Bush supporters.

-Needs to explain and defend himself when they label him a "flip-flopper" and then say Bush does the same thing.

-Doesnt need to admit he's a liberal, whether he is or not, but he does need to defend the label by saying that "we need to get over this crap that being liberal is a bad thing".

Thats all I can think of for now.

PhinPhan1227
08-12-2004, 07:41 PM
Was that PP1227, I'm so proud of you..hey wait a minute, why shouldn't he have depended on WMD for iraq, you've defended him on that in all our debates. BTW this is a good post. The same should be done for Kerry supporters. So you do feel some things have gone too far, that's good, I do wish we had better Canidates from both parties to choose from. Personally I don't see much difference between Bush and Kerry except for Kerry is more articulator. He'd probably handle some things differently because of his background..I do think he will mend fences with our allies.

I've defended WMD's because I believe that he had WMD's. But when did I ever use that as a reason for the invasion? Violation of the terms of the cease fire, and stability in the region. Those are the two things I would have gone for. By the way man, I'm NOT a spell checker, but when you accuse someone of not being articulate, THAT word kind of needs to be spelled correctly :lol:

Karl_12
08-13-2004, 01:11 AM
Since its only fair..

Problems I have with Kerry:

-Doesnt do a very good job saying what he will do as President. Ok we already know how bad Bush is, now tell us what you're going to about it! Lucky for me, I went to his website and read all of his stances on issues. Most people wont do that though, and its his job to inform voters.

-Too wooden, much like Gore. That scares me because people are voting less on the issues and more on personality, which is troubling.

-Isnt that great of a speaker, but not many can top Clinton, Bush II, Reagan and JFK.

-Needs to undo what Gore did in 2000 and not distance himself from Clinton. Sure he hasnt pull a Gore as of yet, but Id like him to show himself with Clinton more, to get more moderates and Independants who liked Clinton to vote for him. I know he wants to be his own man, and thats fine, but dont overdo it by not showing yourself with a still very popular former President.

-Has to stop trying to be a Kennedy. I see it too Bush supporters.

-Needs to explain and defend himself when they label him a "flip-flopper" and then say Bush does the same thing.

-Doesnt need to admit he's a liberal, whether he is or not, but he does need to defend the label by saying that "we need to get over this crap that being liberal is a bad thing".

Thats all I can think of for now.
Ditto.

Thanks to all who answered.

Bling
08-13-2004, 10:42 PM
I've defended WMD's because I believe that he had WMD's. But when did I ever use that as a reason for the invasion? Violation of the terms of the cease fire, and stability in the region. Those are the two things I would have gone for. By the way man, I'm NOT a spell checker, but when you accuse someone of not being articulate, THAT word kind of needs to be spelled correctly :lol:

:roflmao:

:0wned:

PP has been owning you bad.

finguy
08-14-2004, 06:52 PM
I have a problem with Bush's spending and the faith based thing. The churchs getting money from the government is not what I call faith. The church should have no part of government money. The church looks bad enough because it's people won't give. Now they really won't give because they think it is being taken care by the government. :)
I have only been here a short while but I can tell that this board leans to the right. Through out the majority of post all I have read is Kerry is Vietnam a fraud, a flip flopper, and what not and how Bush is a strong leader and makes deceive decisions. I have heard very few republicans questioning one thing he has done past or present, and they praise him like he is Jesus Christ reincarnated. What I want to know is do any Bush supporters have any criticisms for him? Is there any decision that he made that you didn't agree with? Before you start attacking me I have some doubts about Kerry. That is all I want to know.