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View Full Version : Could the Catholic Church GET more idiotic?



PhinPhan1227
08-19-2004, 10:33 PM
Is their some mindset in the Church that WANTS to alienate averyone it can?

BRIELLE, New Jersey (AP) -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot eat wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained no wheat, violating Roman Catholic doctrine.

Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

"It's just not a viable option. How does it corrupt the tradition of the Last Supper? It's just rice versus wheat," said Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman.

Church doctrine holds that Communion wafers, like the bread served at the Last Supper, must have at least some unleavened wheat. Church leaders are reluctant to change anything about the sacrament.

"This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority," Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week.

Haley was diagnosed with celiac sprue disease when she was 5. The disorder occurs in people with a genetic intolerance of gluten, a food protein contained in wheat and other grains.

When consumed by celiac sufferers, gluten damages the lining of the small intestine, blocking nutrient absorption and leading to vitamin deficiencies, bone-thinning and sometimes gastrointestinal cancer.

The diocese has told Haley's mother that the girl can receive a low-gluten wafer, or just drink wine at Communion, but that anything without gluten does not qualify. Pelly-Waldman rejected the offer, saying her child could be harmed by even a small amount of the substance.

Haley's Communion controversy isn't the first. In 2001, the family of a 5-year-old Massachusetts girl with the disease left the Catholic church after being denied permission to use a rice wafer.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/19/communion.denied.ap/index.html

finguy
08-19-2004, 10:58 PM
After all that has been going on with them this really does not surprise me at all. Looks like they would care more about her soul than ritual.

MDFINFAN
08-19-2004, 11:51 PM
Is their some mindset in the Church that WANTS to alienate averyone it can?

BRIELLE, New Jersey (AP) -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot eat wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained no wheat, violating Roman Catholic doctrine.

Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

"It's just not a viable option. How does it corrupt the tradition of the Last Supper? It's just rice versus wheat," said Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman.

Church doctrine holds that Communion wafers, like the bread served at the Last Supper, must have at least some unleavened wheat. Church leaders are reluctant to change anything about the sacrament.

"This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority," Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week.

Haley was diagnosed with celiac sprue disease when she was 5. The disorder occurs in people with a genetic intolerance of gluten, a food protein contained in wheat and other grains.

When consumed by celiac sufferers, gluten damages the lining of the small intestine, blocking nutrient absorption and leading to vitamin deficiencies, bone-thinning and sometimes gastrointestinal cancer.

The diocese has told Haley's mother that the girl can receive a low-gluten wafer, or just drink wine at Communion, but that anything without gluten does not qualify. Pelly-Waldman rejected the offer, saying her child could be harmed by even a small amount of the substance.

Haley's Communion controversy isn't the first. In 2001, the family of a 5-year-old Massachusetts girl with the disease left the Catholic church after being denied permission to use a rice wafer.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/19/communion.denied.ap/index.html

This is the problem with man made doctrine, or should I say denominational doctrine. Communion is the act of the heart in which God sees your intention. For Man to punished the individual over this is just sad. That's why I tell people they have to read the bible for themselves and stop letting others interpret it for you. You never know someone's agenda, you have to establish a relationship with God for yourself. Man will tear you down anytime he gets the chance. And it's not man (the flesh and blood), but the spirit within them. This is just too sad. I hate to read things like this, it sends the wrong message to non believers.

ohall
08-20-2004, 12:29 AM
They have every right to do what they want to do. It's their rules, they can keep them the same or change them as they always have in the past. I feel very bad for the lil girl and her mother though.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
08-20-2004, 12:55 AM
They have every right to do what they want to do. It's their rules, they can keep them the same or change them as they always have in the past. I feel very bad for the lil girl and her mother though.

Oliver...


WRONG...WRONG WRONG WRONG!! Accroding to THEM, it's GOD'S rules. And what kind of blithering idiot would think that God gives a rats a$$ what the Communion is made of? ESPECIALLY since according to Catholic Doctrine, it isn't BREAD when the parishoner eats it anyway. It's the flesh of Christ. It was transmogrified by prayer. That's a BASIC tenet of Catholicism.

ohall
08-20-2004, 01:15 AM
WRONG...WRONG WRONG WRONG!! Accroding to THEM, it's GOD'S rules. And what kind of blithering idiot would think that God gives a rats a$$ what the Communion is made of? ESPECIALLY since according to Catholic Doctrine, it isn't BREAD when the parishoner eats it anyway. It's the flesh of Christ. It was transmogrified by prayer. That's a BASIC tenet of Catholicism.

They feel the Pope is Gods representative on Earth. Take it up with him. I don't believe what they believe, but they do and I think that is the main point here. From their stand point if they start changing things like this pretty soon the main rules of the religion will be compromised. At that point what would separate them from any other religion? Like I said I don't believe in what they believe in, but I can see where they are coming from to an extent.

Like I said I feel badly for the young girl and her mom. It's a harsh world sometimes. I'm sure in time it will get to the higher ups and in time this young girl will be able to get what she wants. No religion likes bad pub.

Oliver...

finguy
08-21-2004, 12:36 AM
I still don't see how they can choose tradition and ritual over the soul of a little girl. I do not believe the way they do about communion, but if you believe that something will save a persons soul from eternal damnation why would you not make the exception?
They feel the Pope is Gods representative on Earth. Take it up with him. I don't believe what they believe, but they do and I think that is the main point here. From their stand point if they start changing things like this pretty soon the main rules of the religion will be compromised. At that point what would separate them from any other religion? Like I said I don't believe in what they believe in, but I can see where they are coming from to an extent.

Like I said I feel badly for the young girl and her mom. It's a harsh world sometimes. I'm sure in time it will get to the higher ups and in time this young girl will be able to get what she wants. No religion likes bad pub.

Oliver...

WeVie
08-23-2004, 10:41 AM
Some other religions thing that the anti-christ will rise from the Catholic Church. To me the Catholic religion seems like it's made made up by the Romans anyway. Can anyone tell me anything of it before Rome was in power or even became a nation at all?

PhinPhan1227
08-23-2004, 02:10 PM
Some other religions thing that the anti-christ will rise from the Catholic Church. To me the Catholic religion seems like it's made made up by the Romans anyway. Can anyone tell me anything of it before Rome was in power or even became a nation at all?



It started in Rome, but was heavily influenced by Spain and especially France.

WeVie
08-23-2004, 02:21 PM
But where was it before that?? It started 100's and 100's of years after the Old Testement I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

PhinPhan1227
08-23-2004, 02:38 PM
But where was it before that?? It started 100's and 100's of years after the Old Testement I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

Well, considering that Jesus(the reason for the Catholic Church existing) was born during the time of the Roman Empire, there was no Catholic Church prior to the era of the Romans. Prior to that was the Jews. Christianity and therefore Catholicism is an offshoot of Judaism, just as the Muslim religion is an offshoot of Judaism. As for the Old Testamant, try thousands of years. Stories like Noah, and others predate even the formal Jewish tribes. In fact, the Babylonians have a story of a great flood starring their hero/God Gilgamesh which is almost a word for word origin of the Noah tale. Bottom line, The Catholic Church was started primarily through the efforts of Peter and Paul. Peter was the face of the Church, and Paul set up all the rules. Then you get the whole persecution of the Christians(lions, crucifictions, etc), until you get your first Christian Emperor, and it's all been very "organized" since then.

1972
08-23-2004, 05:06 PM
It was transmogrified by prayer.

TRANSMOGRIFIED.

That word is cool. :cooldude:

Are you sure you didn't just make that up? ;)

PhinPhan1227
08-23-2004, 05:10 PM
TRANSMOGRIFIED.

That word is cool. :cooldude:

Are you sure you didn't just make that up? ;)


You can thank the Catholic Church for coining the word. You can thank Calvin and Hobbes for making it famous!!... :D

1972
08-23-2004, 05:22 PM
Well, learn something new every day.

That would be a good name for a speed metal band.

"Are you ready to rock Cleveland?"

"I said ARE YOU READY TO ROCK?"

"Put your hands together for.......TRANSMOGRIFIED!!!!!"

:rockon: :rocker: :rockon: :rocker: :rockon: :rocker:

finguy
08-24-2004, 12:09 AM
What Does Transmogrified Mean? Don't Mean To Sound Stupid:)

Muck
08-24-2004, 12:14 AM
Some other religions thing that the anti-christ will rise from the Catholic Church.

:lol: That's how it is where I grew up (Deep South). I'm Catholic. And many of the non-Catholic Christian churches (and members) were pretty nasty to us. Basically, we're all going to hell (Catholics). :lol:

PhinPhan1227
08-24-2004, 12:36 AM
What Does Transmogrified Mean? Don't Mean To Sound Stupid:)

A transformation which is the result of the fantastic or supernatural. Like bread becoming the body of Christ.

finguy
08-24-2004, 08:20 PM
learn something new every day
A transformation which is the result of the fantastic or supernatural. Like bread becoming the body of Christ.

finguy
08-24-2004, 10:20 PM
Muck, you grew up Catholic do think they should let the little girl take communion with a different wafer?:)

Clyde
08-25-2004, 10:19 AM
You can thank the Catholic Church for coining the word. You can thank Calvin and Hobbes for making it famous!!... :D

Actually the proper word for the church doctrine that the bread and wine is changed into the body and blood of Christ is Transubstantiation.

PhinPhan1227
08-25-2004, 02:27 PM
Actually the proper word for the church doctrine that the bread and wine is changed into the body and blood of Christ is Transubstantiation.


You're correct, that is the term used for that particular process. But I believe the Catholic Church came up with transmogrify as well. As I recall the etimology dates from the Middle Ages and Church descriptions of attempts at alchemy.