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DaQuix
08-24-2004, 10:03 PM
Everyone is high on Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben and I have been saying all along that I have seen Losman in camp and in the 2 pre-season games and he is AS GOOD or BETTER than Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben. Finally somone agrees - this is from ESPN:

"Losman, 23, was the fourth quarterback chosen in the first round this year, behind Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, but there are some scouts who felt that he was as good as those prospects, and even superior in some areas. Certainly he is the best pure athlete of the group, and had to be, playing behind a suspect offensive line in college."

LtDan
08-24-2004, 10:05 PM
Everyone is high on Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben and I have been saying all along that I have seen Losman in camp and in the 2 pre-season games and he is AS GOOD or BETTER than Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben. Finally somone agrees - this is from ESPN:

"Losman, 23, was the fourth quarterback chosen in the first round this year, behind Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, but there are some scouts who felt that he was as good as those prospects, and even superior in some areas. Certainly he is the best pure athlete of the group, and had to be, playing behind a suspect offensive line in college."
hopefully he is not hurt too bad!

Nublar7
08-24-2004, 10:05 PM
To bad he is out 8-12 weeks, huh?

FinfanInBuffalo
08-24-2004, 10:06 PM
Everyone is high on Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben and I have been saying all along that I have seen Losman in camp and in the 2 pre-season games and he is AS GOOD or BETTER than Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben. Finally somone agrees - this is from ESPN:

"Losman, 23, was the fourth quarterback chosen in the first round this year, behind Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, but there are some scouts who felt that he was as good as those prospects, and even superior in some areas. Certainly he is the best pure athlete of the group, and had to be, playing behind a suspect offensive line in college."

Two things:

1. This is a Miami Dolphins forum

2. That is not the "truth", its an opinion

LtDan
08-24-2004, 10:09 PM
Two things:

1. This is a Miami Dolphins forum

2. That is not the "truth", its an opinion
I am sure the MODS will move it.

DaQuix
08-24-2004, 10:09 PM
and its your opinion that Booker will do well with Fiedler throwing to him - thats a joke - Booker is a decent WR , but you have no QB

to answer the other questions - yeah - to bad he is out

Phinsdude
08-24-2004, 10:09 PM
Miami Dolphins, No Buffalo Bills Forum.

NaboCane
08-24-2004, 10:11 PM
This is worth re-posting:

Losman!?

Losman is a punk.

I'd rather have seen the Phins GIVE AWAY that pick - to New England, even - than to have to suffer through that little b!tch's struggle to become a man, and the implications it would have for the team when they finally had to give up on him after wasting years watching him try.

BTW, he couldn't even lead his own little dinky conference in QB stats. Not that stats are everything, but when you're dealing with someone with such an inflated opinion of himself, you have to start somewhere.

Nublar7
08-24-2004, 10:12 PM
and its your opinion that Booker will do well with Fiedler throwing to him - thats a joke - Booker is a decent WR , but you have no QB

to answer the other questions - yeah - to bad he is outlol. Its funny to see a Bills fan put down Booker who is a Pro Bowl WR. Also, I would rather Fiedler then Bledsoe anyday. Bills fans just crack me up. lol :roflmao:

FinfanInBuffalo
08-24-2004, 10:14 PM
and its your opinion that Booker will do well with Fiedler throwing to him - thats a joke - Booker is a decent WR , but you have no QB


????

Obviously the point whizzed by you....

DaQuix
08-24-2004, 11:04 PM
lol. Its funny to see a Bills fan put down Booker who is a Pro Bowl WR. Also, I would rather Fiedler then Bledsoe anyday. Bills fans just crack me up. lol :roflmao:

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Bledsoe had a bad last season, but look before that. When he had a decent 0-line. He has had multiple 3,000 + yard seasons.

How about just a year ago (2002) where he torched Miami's "vaunted" secondary TWICE? He had 1 bad year. Marino, Elway, and Kelly all had at least 1 bad year.

burghPhinFan
08-25-2004, 12:19 AM
anyone else thinks he looks/sounds like Adam Sandler????

FinfanInBuffalo
08-25-2004, 02:04 PM
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Bledsoe had a bad last season, but look before that. When he had a decent 0-line. He has had multiple 3,000 + yard seasons.

How about just a year ago (2002) where he torched Miami's "vaunted" secondary TWICE? He had 1 bad year. Marino, Elway, and Kelly all had at least 1 bad year.

You need to take a deeper look at Bledsoe's performance. He got off to a hot start in 2002, but apart from that 8 game stretch, he has been pretty average since 1999. His yds per attempt have dropped off dramatically after 1999.

Here are his stats:

year team gms cmp att pct yds yds/att tds ints rating
1999 NE 16 305 539 56.6 3,985 7.39 19 21 75.6
2000 NE 16 312 531 58.8 3,291 6.20 17 13 77.3
2001 NE 2 40 66 60.6 400 6.06 2 2 75.3
2002 BUF 16 375 610 61.5 4,359 7.15 24 15 86.0
2003 BUF 16 274 471 58.2 2,860 6.07 11 12 73.0

Other than 2002 (which I'll get to in a moment), he has a QB rating of around 75. He completes about 58% of his passes. He averages about 200 yds per game, and he throws about the same number of Ints and he does TDs.

A closer look at 2002 reveals two dramatically different halves of the season.

Here are the stats from the first half:
Games att comp pct yds yds/att tds ints rating
8 318 203 64% 2500 7.9 16 5 98.5


Here are the stats from the second half:
Games att comp pct yds yds/att tds ints rating
8 292 172 59% 1859 6.4 8 10 74.8

Notice that his stats from the second half of 2002 are very similar to his stats from 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2003.

In reality, he hasn't had one bad year in the last 4, he has had 1/2 of a great year.

It shows that he still has talent, but the conditions need to be ideal for him to perform.

byroan
08-25-2004, 03:10 PM
lmao..you can't put Kelly or Bledsoe in the same sentence as Elway and Marino.

and actually...Kelly had 4 bad years.

FinfanInBuffalo
08-25-2004, 04:37 PM
The latest buzz on local sports radio is that Losman was already ticking off his team with his 'attitude'. The rumor is that Losman has been showing up defensive players by going full speed in practice when they have to hold up to avoid hitting him. Perhaps some show boating as well.

Vincent's hit may have been a message to the rookie to knock it off.

Love it.

DaQuix
08-25-2004, 05:17 PM
lmao..you can't put Kelly or Bledsoe in the same sentence as Elway and Marino.

and actually...Kelly had 4 bad years.

Finfan - the whole point was that it was stupid for you to say youd rather have Fiedler than Bledsoe :roflmao:

Kelly went to 4 SB's and lost them all (he actually won one, but norwood lost it for him) ... Marino went to 1 SB and lost it ... so they both have the same SB percentage - 0%

Dan Marino made it to the SB - 5% of the years in his career. Jim Kelly made it to the SB - 44% of the years in his career.

Now Im not sure what were arguing. Are we arguing just the player? If so, then Marino has him for sure. If were asking who did more for there team? Playoffs, SB's ... etc Then definately Kelly.

'88 and '96 were bad years for Kelly and thats 2 years ... not sure where the other 2 come in??

If were arguing overall records then Kelly was 107-53 ... Marino was 141-104 ... then again Marino played 8 more years than Jim Kelly.

So Kelly's win percentage was .669 and Marino's win percentage was .576

Jim Kelly is in the HOF (1st ballot and largest crowd of all time) and Dan Marino will also be in the HOF - 1st ballot guaranteed.

So the point? They were both great QB's - you like who you like ... i was never comparing them in the previous post, but if your talking about the PLAYER then Marino is definately your man but if your talking about TEAM accomplishments then your talking about Kelly.

Its almost like comparing Peyton Manning (incredible stats, no SB) to Tom Brady (not so great stats, but 2 SB's) ... of course Brady won them but you get the point.

BTW: Peyton Manning is on pace to break ALL of Dan Marino's records 4 years before Marino set them.

FinfanInBuffalo
08-25-2004, 05:44 PM
BTW: Peyton Manning is on pace to break ALL of Dan Marino's records 4 years before Marino set them.

We've been over this, you're wrong. He is behind the pace set by Marino.

His totals after the number of games he has played are lower than the totals of Marino at the same point.

DaQuix
08-25-2004, 05:57 PM
We've been over this, you're wrong. He is behind the pace set by Marino.

His totals after the number of games he has played are lower than the totals of Marino at the same point.

Come on man. Even though you are a Dolphin fan, I know your somewhat smart. USE YOUR BRAIN!!

You cant just take both players first 6 years and compare them and see if someone is on pace. Marino wayed off after his first 6 years. We are saying that if Peyton stays on the same pace he is now (not waying off) he will break Marinos records 4 years before Marino set them.

Take Peyton's yards, td's, int's ... etc add them throughout his career and divide them by 6 (his number of years) .... then multiply the # by 17 (number of years Marino was in the NFL)

So if you do that (which all stations - FOX, CBC ... etc) use to say "if he stays on pace" then ...

Peyton Manning with 17 NFL Years: 70,507 yards, 476 TD's

- 6, 035 completions

Dan Marino with 17 NFL Years: 61,361 yards, 420 TD's

- 4,967 completions (1 of his records)

Again - as CBS, FOX, ONLINE ... etc say this isnt the most fair comparison because you cant forcast injuries ... etc but you cant just take the first 6 years and compare because that player can go UP or go DOWN afterwords ...

That is why most people take the average.

Marino1983
08-25-2004, 06:26 PM
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Bledsoe had a bad last season, but look before that. When he had a decent 0-line. He has had multiple 3,000 + yard seasons.

How about just a year ago (2002) where he torched Miami's "vaunted" secondary TWICE? He had 1 bad year. Marino, Elway, and Kelly all had at least 1 bad year.


Oh yeah let's look to the year before ..... And what was the billy goats record ? :spit:

I think the word that best describes the above post is (((DENIAL))) !
Queeny was done in Patsie land.. Why do YOU think YOUR billy goats got him in a trade???????????

Oh and the smack is for the Depths not here,, so control YOUR personal attacks 4 CHOKE fan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:goof:

Marino1983

DaQuix
08-25-2004, 06:29 PM
Oh yeah let's look to the year before ..... And what was the billy goats record ? :spit:

I think the word that best describes the above post is (((DENIAL))) !
Queeny was done in Patsie land.. Why do YOU think YOUR billy goats got him in a trade???????????

Oh and the smack is for the Depths not here,, so control YOUR personal attacks 4 CHOKE fan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:goof:

Marino1983

HUH? The original arugement was that he would rather have Fiedler over Bledsoe when even though Bledsoe isnt doing well he is still better than Fiedler.

AmishJihad
08-25-2004, 07:49 PM
The latest buzz on local sports radio is that Losman was already ticking off his team with his 'attitude'. The rumor is that Losman has been showing up defensive players by going full speed in practice when they have to hold up to avoid hitting him. Perhaps some show boating as well.

Vincent's hit may have been a message to the rookie to knock it off.

Love it.
Yeah, I'll believe what WGR says... its all garbage.


:barf: on WGR

AmishJihad
08-25-2004, 07:51 PM
lmao..you can't put Kelly or Bledsoe in the same sentence as Elway and Marino.

and actually...Kelly had 4 bad years.
You sure can put Kelly, Marino and Elway in the same sentence.. as in Hall of Famers.

AmishJihad
08-25-2004, 07:53 PM
Jim Kelly is in the HOF (1st ballot and largest crowd of all time)Until it was recently surpassed by Elway.

:shakeno:

DaQuix
08-25-2004, 09:41 PM
Who cares - 2nd largest crowd of all time then ...

... how many did Elway have?

FinfanInBuffalo
08-26-2004, 08:06 AM
Come on man. Even though you are a Dolphin fan, I know your somewhat smart. USE YOUR BRAIN!!

You cant just take both players first 6 years and compare them and see if someone is on pace. Marino wayed off after his first 6 years. We are saying that if Peyton stays on the same pace he is now (not waying off) he will break Marinos records 4 years before Marino set them.

Take Peyton's yards, td's, int's ... etc add them throughout his career and divide them by 6 (his number of years) .... then multiply the # by 17 (number of years Marino was in the NFL)

So if you do that (which all stations - FOX, CBC ... etc) use to say "if he stays on pace" then ...

Peyton Manning with 17 NFL Years: 70,507 yards, 476 TD's

- 6, 035 completions

Dan Marino with 17 NFL Years: 61,361 yards, 420 TD's

- 4,967 completions (1 of his records)

Again - as CBS, FOX, ONLINE ... etc say this isnt the most fair comparison because you cant forcast injuries ... etc but you cant just take the first 6 years and compare because that player can go UP or go DOWN afterwords ...

That is why most people take the average.


Why do you feel compelled to try to teach me math? I know what you are talking about, I just don't agree with it.

You admit that it is not the most fair comparison, yet you choose to use it anyway? Why?

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 03:04 PM
Why do you feel compelled to try to teach me math? I know what you are talking about, I just don't agree with it.

You admit that it is not the most fair comparison, yet you choose to use it anyway? Why?]

Sir - in no way was I trying to mock your intelligence - I just didnt know if you knew what I was coming from.

It is not the most fair comparison, BUT, it is the universal method used by all television, radio ... etc broadcasts, to show the "on pace" to another player.

FinfanInBuffalo
08-26-2004, 04:00 PM
]

Sir - in no way was I trying to mock your intelligence - I just didnt know if you knew what I was coming from.

It is not the most fair comparison, BUT, it is the universal method used by all television, radio ... etc broadcasts, to show the "on pace" to another player.

I've also seen player's statistics compared at the same point in their career.

In either case, Peyton Manning is a great QB and barring injury, he has the talent to break whichever records he sets his sights on. I personnally think Marino is the better QB, but if he plays long enough, Manning is a sure HOFer.

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 05:54 PM
If Peyton Manning gets his usual 4,000 plus yards this year then he will be in the HOF ... guaranteed.

And of course your going to say Marino was better - your a Dolphins fan.

BTW: Peyton already has as many 4,000 plus yard seasons in 7 seasons as Dan Marino had in his 17 year career.

If he gets another 4,000 yard year then he will break Marino's record for that. In only 8 seasons!!

7 straight 4,000 yard years are un-heard of!!

Baz
08-26-2004, 06:14 PM
]

Sir - in no way was I trying to mock your intelligence - I just didnt know if you knew what I was coming from.

It is not the most fair comparison, BUT, it is the universal method used by all television, radio ... etc broadcasts, to show the "on pace" to another player.

The "on pace" statistic is completely and utterly useless. Kurt Warner was "on pace" to break Marino's passing yards and passing TDs in a season. Rich Gannon was "on pace" to beat those same 2 records. What happened? Well, obviously, Marino still has both records. "On pace" is a way for the idiot sports critics to find something to talk about after they've beaten everything else to death. Its as simple as that. If "on pace" is the universal method used everywhere, why doesn't is come up in contract negotiations? It doesn't come up because its fluff, nothing more......

FinfanInBuffalo
08-26-2004, 06:22 PM
If Peyton Manning gets his usual 4,000 plus yards this year then he will be in the HOF ... guaranteed.

And of course your going to say Marino was better - your a Dolphins fan.

BTW: Peyton already has as many 4,000 plus yard seasons in 7 seasons as Dan Marino had in his 17 year career.

If he gets another 4,000 yard year then he will break Marino's record for that. In only 8 seasons!!

7 straight 4,000 yard years are un-heard of!!

Marino still has the record for 5,000 yd seasons......

Wakey
08-26-2004, 06:27 PM
The latest buzz on local sports radio is that Losman was already ticking off his team with his 'attitude'. The rumor is that Losman has been showing up defensive players by going full speed in practice when they have to hold up to avoid hitting him. Perhaps some show boating as well.

Vincent's hit may have been a message to the rookie to knock it off.

Love it.


C'mon now, how many times have you heard offensive players for the Fins yelling about Zach in practice? Some people are born ballers and some go through the moves.

The hit that hurt the QB was minimal the way it was stated by people in the Bills camp. Freak accident from what I understand.

I like this kid but comparing him to Manning is pretty damn funny. Mike Vick is a pure athlete also but hasn't really done squat in the football throwing part of the game.

More lazy media hype.

I think Bledsoe had 2 QB's breathing down his neck.

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 06:50 PM
Who was comparing Losman to Manning???

We were comparing Manning to Marino.

Also - yes, it wasnt that hard of a hit, BUT HE BROKE HIS FRIGGEN LEG

That being said Losman will be the QB of the future.

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 07:01 PM
The "on pace" statistic is completely and utterly useless. Kurt Warner was "on pace" to break Marino's passing yards and passing TDs in a season. Rich Gannon was "on pace" to beat those same 2 records. What happened? Well, obviously, Marino still has both records. "On pace" is a way for the idiot sports critics to find something to talk about after they've beaten everything else to death. Its as simple as that. If "on pace" is the universal method used everywhere, why doesn't is come up in contract negotiations? It doesn't come up because its fluff, nothing more......

LMAO - are you joking? You cant even compare the situations. Gannon and Warner cant even hold Manning's shoes.

In 17 years Rich Gannon has 28,000 yards and 177 touchdowns
- averages 1,600 yds, and 10 TD's per year

In 6 years Kurt Warner has 14,000 yards and 102 touchdowns
- averages 2,300 yds, and 17 TD's per year

In 6 years Peyton Manning has 25,000 yards and 167 touchdowns
- averages 4,166 yds, and 27 TD's per year

Rich Gannon had 3 good years out of his 17 year career. Kurt Warner had 3 good years out of his 6 year career (and is now struggling to beat Peyton's ROOKIE brother for a starting job). Peyton Manning has had 5 good years out of his 6 year career (and because he was a rookie during his bad year, you could count that as a good year for a rookie).

BTW: Dan Marino had a 5,000 yard season, yet his career average per year is only 3,600 (500 yards less than Peyton) and his career average per year for TD's is 24 (3 less than Peyton).

And this is all coming from a BILLS fan - not even a Colts fan. In fact I hated the Colts because they were in our divison - remember? But I am MAN enough to see when there is a GREAT player that is NOT on my team. You all seem to be in Marino's circle jerk or something. Marino was good - excuse me - great , but ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

FinfanInBuffalo
08-26-2004, 08:35 PM
ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

But, as you have already admitted, he will not maintain this pace for his whole career. The only fair comparison is where they were at the same point in their careers.

You have already admitted that the approach you are using is not the most fair, so what is the point of using it as the comparison. If Peyton continues at this pace, and he plays long enough, he will pass Marino's records. That is a big - if.

Years from now the debate will be between Manning, Brady, and Vick, just like the debate between Marino, Montana, and Elway. It is ironic that you have the pocket passer, the weaker armed QB that gets it done, and the athletic QB. Vick is the least accomplished so far, just as Elway was.

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 08:57 PM
But, as you have already admitted, he will not maintain this pace for his whole career. The only fair comparison is where they were at the same point in their careers.

You have already admitted that the approach you are using is not the most fair, so what is the point of using it as the comparison. If Peyton continues at this pace, and he plays long enough, he will pass Marino's records. That is a big - if.

Years from now the debate will be between Manning, Brady, and Vick, just like the debate between Marino, Montana, and Elway. It is ironic that you have the pocket passer, the weaker armed QB that gets it done, and the athletic QB. Vick is the least accomplished so far, just as Elway was.

Do you know why most people dont use the same point in there careers comparison? Because you just cant use it. It is a different game - different defenses - different rules (new 5 yard chuck rule was not around with Marino). The cornerbacks when Marino were around may have been worse. The schedules Marino faced may have been easier ... etc

But lets just take your comparison. Through there first 6 years:

Marino: 23,856 yards , 196 touchdowns , 103 interceptions
Manning: 24,885 yards , 167 touchdowns , 110 interceptions

The thing that bothers me the most is that Marino had all day to pass - decent offensive line - Marino also had no running game so all he did was throw. He didnt have to share his success with Edgerin James. I dont care if the defense concentrates more on the pass your gonna rack up big numbers. If that doesnt convince you DAN MARINO IS #1 ALL TIME FOR THE MOST AMMOUNT OF PASS ATTEMPTS!!

Dont get me started on Brady. Tom Brady has gotten it done because of his DEFENSE. Manning has NO DEFENSE. Defense wins playoff games and thats why he cant seem to get to the SB. Give him a top 10 defense and Indi is in the SB.

You wanna compare "at this point in there career"

Tom Brady (3 years in): 10,233 yards , 69 Touchdowns , 38 INT
Peyton Manning (3 years in): 12,287 yards , 85 touchdowns , 58 INT,

Vick gets a lot of attention because he runs like a RB ... but his throwing isnt that great. His "great year" -

Mike Vick - 2,936 yards , 16 Td's, 8 INT
Again - I'm a Bills fan and I can see this - its sad you cant.

Wakey
08-26-2004, 09:08 PM
Who was comparing Losman to Manning???




You did, in the first post in this thread..

I just realized you might have been talking about Eli though :lol:

DaQuix
08-26-2004, 09:09 PM
You did, in the first post in this thread..

I just realized you might have been talking about Eli though :lol:

Yeah in my dreams would Losman be as good as Peyton now --- if you read my other threads you would see that I think Peyton Manning is going to be the best QB of all time.

FinfanInBuffalo
08-27-2004, 09:48 AM
Do you know why most people dont use the same point in there careers comparison? Because you just cant use it. It is a different game - different defenses - different rules (new 5 yard chuck rule was not around with Marino). The cornerbacks when Marino were around may have been worse. The schedules Marino faced may have been easier ... etc


And it all could have been harder during Marino's era also.....

If you can't compare using same point in their career because the game is different, why can you use your "on pace" comparison? If you beleieve so much is different, then you really can't compare them at all, yet you keep tyring to do it. Thats odd.


But lets just take your comparison. Through there first 6 years:

Marino: 23,856 yards , 196 touchdowns , 103 interceptions
Manning: 24,885 yards , 167 touchdowns , 110 interceptions

The thing that bothers me the most is that Marino had all day to pass - decent offensive line - Marino also had no running game so all he did was throw. He didnt have to share his success with Edgerin James. I dont care if the defense concentrates more on the pass your gonna rack up big numbers. If that doesnt convince you DAN MARINO IS #1 ALL TIME FOR THE MOST AMMOUNT OF PASS ATTEMPTS!!

Blah, blah. Why do you assume the conditions are all worse for Manning? Lets not forget that Marino played fewer games in his first 6 seasons.

Marino had no more time to pass that anyone else. It only seemed that way because of his quick release. Lets also not forget that Manning has Marvin Harrison, and as much as I like Clayton and Duper, they are not equal to Harrison.

The running game argument is hillarious. The fact that he thrived despite not having a running game is what makes Marino so great.

Peyton Manning has more attempts in his first 6 years than Marino did.

Could you be any more biased? You raise the issue of career attempts but fail to mention that Peyton has more at this point in his career?

One final attempt to convince you. Through six complete seasons, here are some important comparisons:

Completion % - Manning 62%, Marino 64%
Yds/game - Manning 259, Marino 274
TDs/game - Manning 1.74, Marino 2.25
Ints/game - Manning 1.15, Marino 1.18
Yds/Att - Manning 7.36, Marino 7.70
QB Rating - Manning 88, Marino 92

The most impressive difference is TDs/game. Marino accounts for 8 more per season than Manning. The TD to Int ration is also in Marino's favor.

Marino is better, case closed.


Dont get me started on Brady. Tom Brady has gotten it done because of his DEFENSE. Manning has NO DEFENSE. Defense wins playoff games and thats why he cant seem to get to the SB. Give him a top 10 defense and Indi is in the SB.

You wanna compare "at this point in there career"

Tom Brady (3 years in): 10,233 yards , 69 Touchdowns , 38 INT
Peyton Manning (3 years in): 12,287 yards , 85 touchdowns , 58 INT,

Just like the Montana vs Marino comparison, people will point out this difference:

Tom Brady: 2 SBs
Peyton Manning: 0 SBs

The point wasn't to compare Brady to Manning. The point was that Montana didn't have Marino's numbers but he had the rings and SB MVPs, etc, just like Brady.


Vick gets a lot of attention because he runs like a RB ... but his throwing isnt that great. His "great year" -

Mike Vick - 2,936 yards , 16 Td's, 8 INT
Again - I'm a Bills fan and I can see this - its sad you cant.

Elway didn't have great numbers early in his career either. He was considered dangerous because of this athletic ability, just like Vick.

DaQuix
08-27-2004, 01:33 PM
It is pointless trying to talk to a Fin Fan ... but I dont blame you - I would defend Kelly to the death also ...

Mark my words: Manning will be the best QB of all time

Harrison - your arguement is weak. Dont you think that if Peyton Manning wasnt Harrison's QB then Marvin wouldnt get such good #'s ???

FinfanInBuffalo
08-27-2004, 03:23 PM
It is pointless trying to talk to a Fin Fan ... but I dont blame you - I would defend Kelly to the death also ...

Mark my words: Manning will be the best QB of all time

Harrison - your arguement is weak. Dont you think that if Peyton Manning wasnt Harrison's QB then Marvin wouldnt get such good #'s ???

Sucks when the stats don't support your argument......

What's wrong? Did the # of attempts argument blow up in your face? Nice try. Play again later....

You think Manning will end up with all of the records. How is that any different that what I posted LONG AGO?


In either case, Peyton Manning is a great QB and barring injury, he has the talent to break whichever records he sets his sights on.

Atila
09-06-2004, 07:58 AM
anyone else find it funny that daquix was trying to prove that bledsoe was hot ****, got totally blown out the water by some guys great post on page 1 and quickly changed this into a manning vs marino debate?

haha what a loser

FinfanInBuffalo
09-08-2004, 10:56 AM
anyone else find it funny that daquix was trying to prove that bledsoe was hot ****, got totally blown out the water by some guys great post on page 1 and quickly changed this into a manning vs marino debate?

haha what a loser

I had the pleasure of proving him wrong in both arguments.....

_dan24
09-08-2004, 04:28 PM
Everyone is high on Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben and I have been saying all along that I have seen Losman in camp and in the 2 pre-season games and he is AS GOOD or BETTER than Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben. Finally somone agrees - this is from ESPN:

"Losman, 23, was the fourth quarterback chosen in the first round this year, behind Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, but there are some scouts who felt that he was as good as those prospects, and even superior in some areas. Certainly he is the best pure athlete of the group, and had to be, playing behind a suspect offensive line in college."

Holy preseason!!!


He's gonna be good, i do not doubt that... Dont go off his practice reports and preseason.

If we went by these numbers D. Thompson would be a probowler...

Anyways... ESPN's predictions suck.They are so biased...

Baz
09-09-2004, 03:07 AM
LMAO - are you joking? You cant even compare the situations. Gannon and Warner cant even hold Manning's shoes.

In 17 years Rich Gannon has 28,000 yards and 177 touchdowns
- averages 1,600 yds, and 10 TD's per year

In 6 years Kurt Warner has 14,000 yards and 102 touchdowns
- averages 2,300 yds, and 17 TD's per year

In 6 years Peyton Manning has 25,000 yards and 167 touchdowns
- averages 4,166 yds, and 27 TD's per year

Rich Gannon had 3 good years out of his 17 year career. Kurt Warner had 3 good years out of his 6 year career (and is now struggling to beat Peyton's ROOKIE brother for a starting job). Peyton Manning has had 5 good years out of his 6 year career (and because he was a rookie during his bad year, you could count that as a good year for a rookie).

BTW: Dan Marino had a 5,000 yard season, yet his career average per year is only 3,600 (500 yards less than Peyton) and his career average per year for TD's is 24 (3 less than Peyton).

And this is all coming from a BILLS fan - not even a Colts fan. In fact I hated the Colts because they were in our divison - remember? But I am MAN enough to see when there is a GREAT player that is NOT on my team. You all seem to be in Marino's circle jerk or something. Marino was good - excuse me - great , but ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

:rolleyes:

I was NOT comparing them to Marino. I was using them as an example of how the "on pace" statistic is nothing more than rubbish. Kurt Warner was "on pace" to break Marino's records. No one even thinks Warner is could even hold Marino's jock. The point I was making is that "on pace" ISN'T EVEN A STATISTIC. Its something people use when they have nothing else to argue about......

By the way, I can guarantee Peyton's "on pace" numbers had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with his contract. The fact that he is the best young quarterback in the NFL had everything to do with that contract. You think Peyton said "I'm on pace to beat Marino's records, you better pay me more..." Hell no he didn't.......