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View Full Version : Attention - New TOS: Political Sigs/Avatars Not Allowed



FinHeavenAJ
09-13-2004, 02:24 PM
Dear Members,

The FinHeaven & Co staff has been going back and fourth on this issue since mid-August. However, it has now come to a final vote.

There are to be no political signatures or avatars. Furthermore, there is to be no political talk (slogans, whatever) allowed in the football forums.

The reason is simple: People come to FinHeaven to talk about Dolphins football, not about politics.

So, I'm not going to go on about this subject.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask any staff member.

I hope everyone understands...

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum
Webmaster/Founder

LIQUID24
09-13-2004, 02:25 PM
:woot:

Is mine okay? :D

3P
09-13-2004, 02:28 PM
As an added note, we do have a political forum for your pleasure right here (http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/forumdisplay.php?f=36).

CrunchTime
09-13-2004, 02:30 PM
Good move,guys.

DrAstroZoom
09-13-2004, 02:30 PM
Good call.

DolFan31
09-13-2004, 02:59 PM
Not even Bush/Kerry '04?

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-13-2004, 03:04 PM
good call. Thank you :)

A Wing Pilot
09-13-2004, 03:11 PM
I think you need to squash it all for right now, then ease up on it as far as parady stuff goes!!!

BTw is mine OK ?

ltfinfan
09-13-2004, 03:45 PM
thank god

tay0365
09-13-2004, 03:52 PM
:up:

byroan
09-13-2004, 04:27 PM
Great move, the political debates have ruined other forums I'm on(not football). Too much bashing goes on when a candidate/party is brought up.

Penthos
09-13-2004, 04:30 PM
Yay! :clap:

dolphan39
09-13-2004, 04:44 PM
:yeahthat: :woot:

jaxdolfan
09-13-2004, 05:51 PM
What about my avatar? If you can research it, I have had this avatar here for a coupla years.

Uggykurky
09-13-2004, 05:52 PM
Good move,guys.
Your right the 1st amendment has no place in our society ?

DPlus47
09-13-2004, 05:56 PM
Your right the 1st amendment has no place in our society ?

the first amendment doesn't apply to a private message board. i think it's a good move.

Mile High Fin
09-13-2004, 05:58 PM
:hi5: :bravo: :biggrin: :clap: :bandwagon :up: :chuckle:

Ross
09-13-2004, 06:35 PM
About time!

--Ross

stork48
09-13-2004, 07:13 PM
but now how can i tell who is an idiot, and who is not?

LtDan
09-13-2004, 07:16 PM
Your right the 1st amendment has no place in our society ?
Always has to be one!!:shakeno:

Cicero
09-13-2004, 08:01 PM
Well crap, I spent all day making my new American Communist Party signature picture.:mad: :cry: ;)

dolfan3033
09-13-2004, 08:06 PM
but now how can i tell who is an idiot, and who is not?
It's comments like this that made it necessary to change the TOS.

Muck
09-13-2004, 08:38 PM
Your right the 1st amendment has no place in our society ?

This forum is privately owned. What is and isn't considered acceptable speech is determined by those in charge.

In short, you're in someone else's house.

TerryTate
09-13-2004, 09:23 PM
For the people that are upset about this policy, FYI we tried everything we could to allow this to work, and it just was too much of an inconvenience....

It's not like we took the Political/War Forum out, that is still available for all of you to bring up conversation....

DrMultimedia
09-13-2004, 09:34 PM
Great. Football is political enough to keep most happy :)

finjim123
09-13-2004, 09:40 PM
Good!!!

jaxdolfan
09-13-2004, 10:01 PM
So wait a minute....so still some idiot can come in here and fly a Jets flag?

Superself
09-13-2004, 10:27 PM
Excellent call IMO!

TerryTate
09-13-2004, 10:35 PM
So wait a minute....so still some idiot can come in here and fly a Jets flag?

Yep, its a football message board...

Think about it, do you really want each and every fan here to be a fins fan? We need other fans to give us a reality check and provide insight outside of finfan knowledge...

Shouright
09-13-2004, 10:57 PM
And from now on, all avatars need to be like dolphan39's.

Muck
09-14-2004, 12:41 AM
So wait a minute....so still some idiot can come in here and fly a Jets flag?

:roflmao:

finfan54
09-14-2004, 12:48 PM
but now how can i tell who is an idiot, and who is not?

STAFF EDIT: :tsk:

P4E
09-14-2004, 01:35 PM
For the people that are upset about this policy, FYI we tried everything we could to allow this to work, and it just was too much of an inconvenience....
That is simply not true. Why are you saying that?

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-14-2004, 01:42 PM
That is simply not true. Why are you saying that?

so you didn't try to make it work/

plc001
09-14-2004, 02:07 PM
That is simply not true. Why are you saying that?

Usurper! :goof:

fin-atic
09-14-2004, 02:39 PM
I totally disagree with this. This is BS. Everyone uses their sigs to promote their personal interest. Girls, college teams, bands, etc. Why are politics expempt? Some of us are active and it is very much an interest.

I understand about political discussions, but the sigs and avatars should be allowed as along as they are accpetable for profanity, etc.

This is a bad decsion guys. Very bad. I think you are opening a flood gate of censorship request. If I don't like rap music can I get all music sigs banned? If I don't like FSU can I get all college sigs banned. Its a community and should be treated with some openness.

DrAstroZoom
09-14-2004, 02:45 PM
I totally disagree with this. This is BS. Everyone uses their sigs to promote their personal interest. Girls, college teams, bands, etc. Why are politics expempt? Some of us are active and it is very much an interest.

I understand about political discussions, but the sigs and avatars should be allowed as along as they are accpetable for profanity, etc.

This is a bad decsion guys. Very bad. I think you are opening a flood gate of censorship request. If I don't like rap music can I get all music sigs banned? If I don't like FSU can I get all college sigs banned. Its a community and should be treated with some openness.

I disagree with your disagreement. (Surprise! :lol: )

For me, It's all about making the site more enjoyable for everyone. I have seen more threads go hopelessly off-topic because of political sigs than all other sig topics combined. It's not about censorship or trying to avoid offending someone ... it's about trying to keep football forum talk on football.

Just my opinion.

3P
09-14-2004, 02:49 PM
Here's a little study I did... this is just searching for John Kerry remarks... and just until I got tired of looking... it doesn't even encompas all the canidates, nor all of the incidents. When someone has a rap group, quote, etc... it doesn't result in the thread becoming about said topic, to the death of the thread.


http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=600568&postcount=7

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=596427&postcount=3

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=560120&postcount=1

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=549880&postcount=27

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=542819&postcount=4

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=539224&postcount=6

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=533541&postcount=9

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=532900&postcount=14

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=531041&postcount=14

fin-atic
09-14-2004, 02:49 PM
I agree about discussions. They don't belong here. But that is no different than profanity or personal attacks or smack. That's why we have Mods.

I do not agree with censoring the sigs and avatars.

PS
You have the best Sig of all!!! Which one is me?

LIQUID24
09-14-2004, 02:50 PM
I disagree with your disagreement. (Surprise! :lol:)

For me, It's all about making the site more enjoyable for everyone. I have seen more threads go hopelessly off-topic because of political sigs than all other sig topics combined. It's not about censorship or trying to avoid offending someone ... it's about trying to keep football forum talk on football.

Just my opinion.
I agree with doc. I don't see too many people protesting this move.

fin-atic
09-14-2004, 02:51 PM
Here's a little study I did... this is just searching for John Kerry remarks... and just until I got tired of looking... it doesn't even encompas all the canidates, nor all of the incidents. When someone has a rap group, quote, etc... it doesn't result in the thread becoming about said topic, to the death of the thread.
So? Plenty of people talk about their interest. People mention family, school, jobs, Computer and electronic questions. etc. Why is politics different?

We have Mods who police the content. If a discussion goes this way they can move it. No need to censor the sigs and avatars.

I have had my say. I am done.

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-14-2004, 02:56 PM
Until rap sigs, anime sigs, and other kinds of sigs ruin multiple discussions, I will agree with you.

DrAstroZoom
09-14-2004, 03:02 PM
Fin-atic: I naturally figured you would be Paul Begala (on the left) to my Tucker Carlson (on the right).

I did want to respond to your point on the mods. As a message board user, I would just as soon not have to wait for a mod to make a call on moving a hijacked thread. Again, just my opinion.

plc001
09-14-2004, 03:06 PM
So? Plenty of people talk about their interest. People mention family, school, jobs, Computer and electronic questions. etc. Why is politics different?

We have Mods who police the content. If a discussion goes this way they can move it. No need to censor the sigs and avatars.

I have had my say. I am done.

Your smarter then this Finatic, now you just arguing to argue. There is a difference to people casually mentioning a school or video game and people mentioning Bush/kerry. You can't casually mention being a Bush supporter without getting hammered from the opposition. It's like arguing abortion, how do you do that without the emotional involvement. You can't. And when people feel so strongly about something it gets in the way of the purpose of this particular forum which also happens to be this Websites most valued commodity.

Your freedoms are not being infringed on. You can come and go same as before.

inFINSible
09-14-2004, 03:10 PM
Your freedoms are not being infringed on. You can come and go same as before.
I agree.

Muck
09-14-2004, 03:32 PM
We have Mods who police the content. If a discussion goes this way they can move it. No need to censor the sigs and avatars.

Our jobs shouldn't have to be more difficult and time consuming than they already are. Personally, I'm looking forward to (hopefully) a little more time to actually use the boards (which in the last few months has become more of a rarity than common place).

As P4E mentioned, this isn't something we just decided on. It's something we've talked about and discussed for a long time. Several ideas were proposed (some of which were implemented). But this one is the one we collectively decided on.

The hope is that this new policy makes for a smoother, more enjoyable forum.

FinHeavenAJ
09-14-2004, 04:02 PM
We have Mods who police the content. If a discussion goes this way they can move it. No need to censor the sigs and avatars.

I have had my say. I am done.
Matt... fin-atic... that comment truly pisses me off. FinHeaven has about 14 moderators, yet posts will sometimes go by us. Yet, newbies will come on and SPAM the boards. This isn't because we aren't doing our job, it's because there are over 20 new members a day, just about. Do you realize that there are, on average, 2,642 new post per day. Additionally, there are just about 174 new threads per day. Tell me, fin-atic, how are we supposed to moderate this?

However, don't get me wrong, this policy wasn't made solely to help us. It was also made to make these boards a more enjoyable place for the majority. Can we make everyone happy? Surely not. However, as Ken (phinphanphrommi) pointed out... there were too many times that a thread was taken off of subject because someone had a political signature/avatar. People, for the majority, don't want to read/see that. If they did, they can easily go to the respective forum.

So, I hope you take no offense to this post. It just always pisses me off when people say "I can make this post in the wrong forum because mods will move it..." I'm sorry, but we have more important things to do on the forums than to move threads because someoene wants to do whatever they want.

Once again, I thank everyone (else) for their understanding of this new term of service. I know it will make the forums more enjoyable!

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

Y-TownPhinVet
09-14-2004, 04:09 PM
I'm glad this decision was made! :D On many occasions, these sigs and avatars have pulled my attention away from the discussion at hand. And yes, I have had to bite my keyboard many times not to let it influence my response. With politics being everywhere, not being here will enhance the boards and keep things football related. After all, that's why we're here!

Philter25
09-14-2004, 04:11 PM
when i come here, I want to talk about football


not be spammed with KERRY IN 04 or
4 MORE YEARS! or crap like that. its cool if you have political views, I just dont think this is the place for political advertisement. put the sign in your front yard if it really upsets you. im sure the neighbors dont mind seeing your political views everytime they drive down the street.

this is a private football forum, none of us pay to be here. be thankful of that.

njfinfan
09-14-2004, 04:22 PM
when i come here, I want to talk about football


not be spammed with KERRY IN 04 or
4 MORE YEARS! or crap like that. its cool if you have political views, I just dont think this is the place for political advertisement. put the sign in your front yard if it really upsets you. im sure the neighbors dont mind seeing your political views everytime they drive down the street.

this is a private football forum, none of us pay to be here. be thankful of that.

Don't want to talk politics, religion, rap music, etc. I come to here to talk and learn everyone else's opinions on football and our team. I believe this is a sound decision and support it completely.

Phin-o-rama
09-14-2004, 04:24 PM
edited by myself: this may be a thread that i should stay out of...mods are quick to ban me >_<

1972
09-14-2004, 04:32 PM
It was a good decision. There is a political forum for those so inclined.

Politics and religion are always touchy subjects. Political sigs should be controlled just like I should not be allowed to make a sig that says "Christians Rule" or "Jews are the Best".

CrunchTime
09-14-2004, 04:37 PM
I have seen Politics ruin a couple of boards.I am a refugee from one.Its fruitless banter,boring and endless.And its always seems that there are only a couple of people rabblerousing and ruining the main topic for the rest.

For those that MUST discuss politics there is always the Political Forum.

dolfan3033
09-14-2004, 04:46 PM
I think the main problem at hand is that some of the signitures became on the verge of slander, and even beyond that. I didn't mind seeing political sig's as long as they were decent and didn't take 10 minutes to load, but recently they became even more degrading by the day. I had my political signiture, and it was positive and small. Others had there's and they were fine as long as it followed the first TOS. Then you began seeing ones that went beyond the decent line and that is where discussion and conflicts rise from.. IMO.

Emskirch
09-14-2004, 04:51 PM
I like the decision, your avatar or signature will not win your man's election for him. I feel its been one big billboard for both canidates when I came in and want to read and or post about football. If I wanted to hear/see anything to do with those two I would turn on cnn or fox :)

NaboCane
09-14-2004, 05:03 PM
Mods: Thank you for taking what is shaping up to be a controversial - but (IMO) necessary step.

fin-atic
09-14-2004, 10:26 PM
Matt... fin-atic... that comment truly pisses me off. FinHeaven has about 14 moderators, yet posts will sometimes go by us. Yet, newbies will come on and SPAM the boards. This isn't because we aren't doing our job, it's because there are over 20 new members a day, just about. Do you realize that there are, on average, 2,642 new post per day. Additionally, there are just about 174 new threads per day. Tell me, fin-atic, how are we supposed to moderate this?

However, don't get me wrong, this policy wasn't made solely to help us. It was also made to make these boards a more enjoyable place for the majority. Can we make everyone happy? Surely not. However, as Ken (phinphanphrommi) pointed out... there were too many times that a thread was taken off of subject because someone had a political signature/avatar. People, for the majority, don't want to read/see that. If they did, they can easily go to the respective forum.

So, I hope you take no offense to this post. It just always pisses me off when people say "I can make this post in the wrong forum because mods will move it..." I'm sorry, but we have more important things to do on the forums than to move threads because someoene wants to do whatever they want.

Once again, I thank everyone (else) for their understanding of this new term of service. I know it will make the forums more enjoyable!

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

Am I missing something? What about my quote pissed you off? I said there are Mods and they move discussions that go bad and off topic to other forums. That is correct that is the way it should be done. reread my comments I think you took it wrong. I was not complaining that posts get moved. I was saying that politics should not be discussed, and that when they are they can be moved just like any other off topic item does. But tasteful sigs and avatars should be allowed to express each individual.

Read my post again and see if you feel less pissed off.

Canadian DolFan
09-14-2004, 10:58 PM
sounds good to me.

DolphinDevil28
09-15-2004, 12:10 AM
fin-atic, we may disagree on the candidates, but I totally agree with you on this.

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-15-2004, 12:15 AM
They can take away the signs, but they can't take away my speech.

actually they can do both

yankeehillbilly
09-15-2004, 12:27 AM
I have seen Politics ruin a couple of boards.I am a refugee from one.Its fruitless banter,boring and endless.And its always seems that there are only a couple of people rabblerousing and ruining the main topic for the rest.

For those that MUST discuss politics there is always the Political Forum.
Let me guess, you are a refugee from the Sun-Sentinel board? It was getting pretty bad over there a couple of months ago when I stopped frequenting the site.

sbh1602
09-15-2004, 02:43 AM
If I may...

Is there a way to limit the signatures to a certain forum?

That would stop most of the complaints, IMO...

Muck
09-15-2004, 03:12 AM
My freedom of self expression is being censored. :shakeno: :shakeno:

Don't you think you're being a little melodramatic here??

njfinfan
09-15-2004, 07:09 AM
Am I missing something? What about my quote pissed you off? I said there are Mods and they move discussions that go bad and off topic to other forums. That is correct that is the way it should be done. reread my comments I think you took it wrong. I was not complaining that posts get moved. I was saying that politics should not be discussed, and that when they are they can be moved just like any other off topic item does. But tasteful sigs and avatars should be allowed to express each individual.

Read my post again and see if you feel less pissed off.

Are you by chance an actor? My gosh, you'd think someone was pulling your brains out through your ears. There is a political forum for you to express your views. Plain and simple. The majority here in this main forum agree with the decision. Deal with it.

stork48
09-15-2004, 07:13 AM
Don't you think you're being a little melodramatic here??


:up:

3P
09-15-2004, 07:13 AM
If I may...

Is there a way to limit the signatures to a certain forum?

That would stop most of the complaints, IMO...

Unfortunatly, no... and that's part of the problem.

It's the same reason that girlies were banned from sigs/avatars... threads kept getting de-railed by them... and most were inapropriate for the general audiance. We made a girlie forum for them... but your sig/avatar show in any forum you happen to post in. Thus they had to be banned, and limited to that forum. It's been working quite well so far.

It's not as though we've stricken all political talk/support. You are still free to post to your hearts content in the political forum. We simply ask that you keep it limited to the political forum... thus no signatures or avatars.

As far as mods being able to just clean threads and whatnot? Why? If we can implement a policy that will make it much easier to moderate the boards, why wouldn't we? If we had a staff of a hundred or so mods, I'm sure we could just make it so there were no rules... and the mods would just handle all the merging/moving/banning. That said, the reason this site has such quality moderation is due to the fact that it's a close-nit group. There is a lot of watching being done by AJ/Muck and the older mods. When I first started modding, there was a lot of mentoring going on... heck there's STILL a lot of mentoring going on. You just can't get the same quality of moderation if you've got to employ too many people to do it. So yes, we're implementing a policy that makes it easier on us. How selfish of us. :shakeno:

And I would like to remind you once again, that we're not censoring you, or stopping you from expressing your views... we're simply asking that you do so in the appropriate forum.

kanelakos
09-15-2004, 11:38 AM
Thank you Finheaven!! I totally agree with your decision. I have read all replies up to this point and only one disagrees with the ban. Of course, he was the one with the biggest political sig. Thank again. The Bengals are going to lose their stripes this Sunday! My prediction... Fins- 27 Bengals- 13:clap:

dolphan39
09-15-2004, 12:01 PM
is this is political sig ?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif :goof:

Section126
09-15-2004, 12:03 PM
This decision is grossly unconstitutional but I do support it.....

This is the "freakin" Dolphins board...wanna talk politics? Stick to the political board.

Way to go TOS.

DrAstroZoom
09-15-2004, 12:29 PM
This decision is grossly unconstitutional but I do support it.....

This is the "freakin" Dolphins board...wanna talk politics? Stick to the political board.

Way to go TOS.

Nothing unconstitutional about it. The first amendment forbids governmental controls on speech, not message board control.

FinaciousOne
09-15-2004, 12:58 PM
Thanks, Finheaven for making a dificult but good decision.

For those who feel such a decision by a private institution is unconstitutional, I suggest they take their political avatars and signatures, enlarge them into signs, take them to the Dolphins game Sunday night, and run out onto the field in the middle of the football game. Word of warning though, Expect Some Serious Infringement of Your Speech!

There is a time and place for every thing.

Section126
09-15-2004, 08:03 PM
Nothing unconstitutional about it. The first amendment forbids governmental controls on speech, not message board control.


You know what I meant.......

DallasDolfan
09-15-2004, 10:01 PM
Now we will not have to read the implied vulgarity from the likes of X Con

Thanks

fin-atic
09-15-2004, 10:22 PM
I want to be clear here, I do not support political discussions.
I do think tasteful political sigs and avatars should be allowed as these are vehicles to express ones individuality regradless of affiliation, music taste, college preference, etc.

I think you are bordering on censorship.

If it was a game and you were the refs we would be saying "let them play the game".

AJ I would like clarification on our post as you took it entirely out of context.

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-15-2004, 10:45 PM
I want to be clear here, I do not support political discussions.
I do think tasteful political sigs and avatars should be allowed as these are vehicles to express ones individuality regradless of affiliation, music taste, college preference, etc.

I think you are bordering on censorship.

If it was a game and you were the refs we would be saying "let them play the game".

AJ I would like clarification on our post as you took it entirely out of context.

What do you mean bordering? It is censorship. This entire board is censored. That is why it is so good. Especially since they censor things that are off topic and not unpopular.

The problem is that not enough people on this board are mature enough to deal with political avatars and sigs. It is that simple. Too many threads were being taken over by political discussion and I believe that is too much unneccessary work that the mods should not have to do.

What is easier? Editing hundreds of posts, moving a bunch of threads, warning a bunch of people, OR banning political sigs.

I do realize that I am speaking out of turn. Since I am not a mod, nor I have spoken with them or know if they really exist and are not just one person who has 5 or more personalities. I just can imagine what they are going through.

TorontoFin
09-16-2004, 12:24 AM
I'm as political as they come, and spend time on the political board set up here. But I think this is a good decision. The avatars may not constitute political discussion, but they invite it. When things get out of hand on a thread, I simply invite those posting politics to the political board, to which they decline because the audience isn't as big, I guess, and they can't be class clowns. So then I just stop reading it. I too am a refugee of a couple other boards (yes Yank, I was chased off sun-Sentinal too), and I don't want the same BS to ruin this one as well. Since we're on the subject, I'm no rat, so I won't mention names, but a couple members are sneakily bypassing the new rule, with a simple link to groups like moveon.org -- a big-money Dem backer that has directly compared Bush to Hitler. Mods keep your eye out please.

jaxdolfan
09-16-2004, 08:08 AM
Since I am not a mod, nor I have spoken with them or know if they really exist and are not just one person who has 5 or more personalities.

Icksnay on the ersonalitiespay!

:eek: :eek:

inFINSible
09-16-2004, 08:23 AM
What do you mean bordering? It is censorship. This entire board is censored. That is why it is so good. Especially since they censor things that are off topic and not unpopular.

The problem is that not enough people on this board are mature enough to deal with political avatars and sigs. It is that simple. Too many threads were being taken over by political discussion and I believe that is too much unneccessary work that the mods should not have to do.

What is easier? Editing hundreds of posts, moving a bunch of threads, warning a bunch of people, OR banning political sigs.

I do realize that I am speaking out of turn. Since I am not a mod, nor I have spoken with them or know if they really exist and are not just one person who has 5 or more personalities. I just can imagine what they are going through.
:clap: If that doesn't get through....we're gonna need dynamite.

Somebody call Jimmy Walker and have him on standby.

DOLFANMIKE
09-17-2004, 01:30 PM
I even had my "More Bush in 2004" with the "this is not a political statement" disclaimer under it removed. I guess I should have included a picture!

LMAO

I think its a great idea not allowing the political mouthing. This is a place we can come to and enjoy Dolphins football. Or even not enjoy it in some cases.

Section126
09-17-2004, 02:04 PM
:clap: If that doesn't get through....we're gonna need dynamite.

Somebody call Jimmy Walker and have him on standby.

YOU RANG?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif