PDA

View Full Version : A jump shot flew over the Lakers' cuckoo's nest



BAMAPHIN 22
10-13-2004, 03:16 PM
Now we know why the Detroit Pistons made it look so easy last June. Not just because of their defense or Chauncey Billups' jump shots or Larry Brown.
They were playing against an asylum. The Los Angeles Lakers' front office should have worn white coats.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2004-10-13-lopresti-lakers_x.htm

Samphin
10-13-2004, 04:43 PM
Yet with all that turmoil, they came up just three games short of a championship. I know it is the cool ting to rip on the Lakers, but face it, 3 titles in five years with another appearance in the finals added on is damn good. The Pistons were just a better team, flat out. Patriots don't have the best players talent wise, but they are the best TEAM. Same thing applies here.

Despite all of that, the Lakers showed enough grit and determination to get to the finals past TEAMS that were probably better suited to go ( T-Wolves, Spurs ). Why? Because they showed heart and determination to get them that far. In the end, they just lost to a better team.

Shaq will do great in Miami, Kobe wll do great in L.A. and Phil will do great banging his former boss's daughter and meditating in Montana.

BAMAPHIN 22
10-13-2004, 09:04 PM
Yet with all that turmoil, they came up just three games short of a championship. I know it is the cool ting to rip on the Lakers, but face it, 3 titles in five years with another appearance in the finals added on is damn good. The Pistons were just a better team, flat out. Patriots don't have the best players talent wise, but they are the best TEAM. Same thing applies here.

Despite all of that, the Lakers showed enough grit and determination to get to the finals past TEAMS that were probably better suited to go ( T-Wolves, Spurs ). Why? Because they showed heart and determination to get them that far. In the end, they just lost to a better team.

Shaq will do great in Miami, Kobe wll do great in L.A. and Phil will do great banging his former boss's daughter and meditating in Montana.Good post... With all the turmoil in the lakers camp... Phil Jackson had to be more accountable then ever... I think that was real reason he didn't have any problems leaving this organization...

FinsNYanksFan13
10-14-2004, 12:34 AM
Phil Jackson should be held accountable....................for doing a great job in even getting the Lakers to the finals. Let's face it, Kobe was the sour seed on that team. From his rape charge, to his talking trash about Shaq last pre season (he's lucky Shaq didn't eat him for breakfast), and do just being downright disrespectful to Phil. The Lakers are a lot worse off without Shaq then they would be without Kobe. Shaq would be just as motivated if he stayed with the Lakers as he is with the Heat because he is primed to show that he was the reason the Lakers won 3 rings, not Kobe (which I agree). The Lakers have solid talent this year and a solid squad but let's face it, the West is so jam packed that their at best, a 6th seed!! With Shaq, a 6th seed is perfect because you know he's going to turn it on in the playoffs and make things happen. With Kobe, it's going to be a first round knockout!!!

Samphin
10-14-2004, 06:09 PM
Phil Jackson should be held accountable....................for doing a great job in even getting the Lakers to the finals. Let's face it, Kobe was the sour seed on that team. From his rape charge, to his talking trash about Shaq last pre season (he's lucky Shaq didn't eat him for breakfast), and do just being downright disrespectful to Phil. The Lakers are a lot worse off without Shaq then they would be without Kobe. Shaq would be just as motivated if he stayed with the Lakers as he is with the Heat because he is primed to show that he was the reason the Lakers won 3 rings, not Kobe (which I agree). The Lakers have solid talent this year and a solid squad but let's face it, the West is so jam packed that their at best, a 6th seed!! With Shaq, a 6th seed is perfect because you know he's going to turn it on in the playoffs and make things happen. With Kobe, it's going to be a first round knockout!!!

I really cannot foresee a sixth seed. Have you seen who is in their new division? Sacramento, Golden State, Pheonix, Clippers and I believe Portland( I could have this one wrong ). No one out of those teams scares me one bit. The Kings are the next closest thing to competition and with an unhappy Peja alongside an ineffective Chris Webber, I can't see them doing anything. The Warriors, Clippers and Suns aren't contenders and Portland has too much turmoil to be anything but an also ran. A fourth seed I could see, but a sixth? no way.

Furthermore, how can you say Kobe is a detriment to the team. He hit so many game winning shots last year and was able to get ot the foul line when his shots weren't falling. Granted his leagal troubles and whining didn't help (no one should forget the little piss fest he had in Sacramento where he refused to shoot the ball after being called a ball hog), but Shaq was out of shape, didn't care to work on his free throw shooting, took potshots of his own and had bad games and days as well. Shaq misses practice, tells some BS story about chickens ( or some other animals ) were all over the road and he couldn't get to practice, the media laughs it off and everyone goes on with their lives. Kobe misses a practice for whatever reason ( excused or not ) and everyone rakes him over the coals. Granted Kobe probably gets the Barry Bonds treatment ( meaning if you aren't friendly with the media, you are a jerk ) form the press but come on. Some one call a spade a spade.

FinsNYanksFan13
10-14-2004, 08:44 PM
Sacramento is way better then the Lakers and Phoenix is much improved. With the new alignment, that makes the Lakers at best a 4th seed (3 division champs get top 3 seeds). Sacramento, Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston are better then the Lakers no doubt, with Utah, Phoenix, Denver, and Memphis all having a chance to be better then the Lakers. I think the Lakers are at best a 6th seed (not even a guarentee), but Kobe will get his oppotunity to prove me wrong!!

FinsNYanksFan13
10-14-2004, 08:46 PM
Oh, and just because Kobe hit game winners, does that mean he wasn't a problem last year? Let;s face it, who showed up against Detroit and who didn't? Shaq was averaging 30 and almost 20, where was Kobe? Oh and Shaq was doing that with Kobe hoisting up shot after shot in the finals, trying to do everything by himself when it wasn't neccesary. If that doesnt' tell u the type of player Kobe is, I don;t know what will!

PHINATIC13
10-14-2004, 09:45 PM
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! Look I loved Shaq, but the last 3 seasons or so he came to camp 20-30lb's "heavy", gets ship out to Miami and shedds 20 or so lb's don't tell me about motivation!!!!!!!!!3 rings in 5 yrs,I'd say they did pretty good.Oh BTW you don't know what the hell your talking about:shakeno: NY!
Phil Jackson should be held accountable....................for doing a great job in even getting the Lakers to the finals. Let's face it, Kobe was the sour seed on that team. From his rape charge, to his talking trash about Shaq last pre season (he's lucky Shaq didn't eat him for breakfast), and do just being downright disrespectful to Phil. The Lakers are a lot worse off without Shaq then they would be without Kobe. Shaq would be just as motivated if he stayed with the Lakers as he is with the Heat because he is primed to show that he was the reason the Lakers won 3 rings, not Kobe (which I agree). The Lakers have solid talent this year and a solid squad but let's face it, the West is so jam packed that their at best, a 6th seed!! With Shaq, a 6th seed is perfect because you know he's going to turn it on in the playoffs and make things happen. With Kobe, it's going to be a first round knockout!!!

Samphin
10-15-2004, 01:03 AM
If Shaq is the sole reason why L.A. won championships, then how come he never won one without Kobe? Granted Kobe has never won one without Shaq, but Shaq has been around a lot longer and had more opportunities to never produce.

Kobe hitting game winners proves to me that when it comes down to crunch time, you can count on him. Shaq is the polar opposite. Often times, you will find him on the bench because he is a liability out there with his lack of free throw prowess.

Seocndly, why does Kobe get all the blame for the Finals. NO ONE< not even Shaq showed up in that series. Yes, Shaq playe dbetter than the others on his team, but realisitcally, with the cupcakes and short defnders they had on him, he should have had tons more. He really only dominate din one game. Plus, the one game L.A. did win, Kobe, not Shaq, hit the game winner.

The bigger problem with the Lakers assesment in the finals is that they should have won. Clearly they shouldn't have so this notion that any of them let their fans or media down is bogus. Detroit was the better team and proved it. Spare me the mantra that great players overcome it.

Shaq was constantly showing up to camp fat and overweight and "played his way into shape" during the season and often sat out with quetionable injuries. His attitude sucked but he was able to get away with it because he is so big and dominant inside. I guarentee if someone like Rick Fox pulle dhalf the shenangians that Shaq pulled, they would have been cut years ago. So nobody act like Shaq is an innocent bystander here. His immature behavior was further shown with his latest "rap" single. If he truly was the bigger man, he wouldn't have said anything.

Don't get me wrong, I love Shaq for what he brought to my Lakers, but I also recognize that he isn't perfect. Since I also root for Eddie Jones every chance I get, there is a strong possibility that I will be rooting for the Heat in the East, or as I call them, the Miami Lakers (Riley, Shaq, Jones).

Samphin
10-15-2004, 01:12 AM
Sacramento is way better then the Lakers and Phoenix is much improved. With the new alignment, that makes the Lakers at best a 4th seed (3 division champs get top 3 seeds). Sacramento, Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston are better then the Lakers no doubt, with Utah, Phoenix, Denver, and Memphis all having a chance to be better then the Lakers. I think the Lakers are at best a 6th seed (not even a guarentee), but Kobe will get his oppotunity to prove me wrong!!

Sacramento is never beeter than the Lakers. We are the Yankees to their Red Sox, and they know it. Three things in life are guarenteed, Detah, Taxes and the Kings folding up camp early in the playoffs. As long as they have Webber, that team will fall flat on their face. Divac leaving will hurt them also. He was a leader on the team and sort of like the big brother to Peja, who has demanded a trade. Doug Christie needs permission fromhis wife to shoot the ball and Bibby is a streaky shooter. They have weapons, but they can't play D and have an awful Warrios reject coach in Adelman.

Minnesota is good, San Antoino are my odds on favorite to win the whole thing, so obviously they are good, Dallas sucks. How anyone can bet on Dallas being anything but the Lakers lap dog is beyond me. Thye play zero defense and Cuban trades too many pieces to form any chemistry. He is trying to be Steinbrenner and it isn't working. Houston is a vastly improved team with McGrady and Yao. I give them the edge in a year. I really think they are going to be something special soon, but I still think Odom, Bryant and Butler can drive inside and get Yao in foul trouble a lot better than Shaq could ( Shaq got hit with offensive fouls a lot against Yao do to bumping into the frail one from China and sending him into orbit ). Their ability to drive into the lane and have Yao leave his feet will be exposed imo.

Pheonix is oging nowhere. All those small forward/power forwards they have make them too small to be a player in the West. The Lakers are built somewhat similar but they have Divac and a couple of other tall bodies. Plus, their guard play and forward play is btter than Pheonix's. I think Nash is the only place they have L.A. beat really.

Denver, Utah and Mempis should be fighters but none of them are in L.A.'s division are they? The Lakers division looks very winnable which would put them in the top 3 seeds. Trust me, L.A. will shock some people this year.

FinsNYanksFan13
10-15-2004, 01:21 AM
Kobe was a cancer on the Lakers last season. Not the seasons before. Shaq held the Lakers down playing the toughest postion in the loaded Western Conference. Shaq cleared the lane for Kobe, end of story. Shaq won the series against the Kings, Shaq beat San Antonio all those years in a row, Shaq has 3 finals MVP's in a row. Kobe was Shaq's sidekick. You can say Shaq has no rings without Kobe and vice versa, the fact is that they both had none with Phil, and Phil says Kobe made things difficult last season, not Shaq. To summarize Kobe's personality. The Lakers gave into every demand he wanted and he still played with their minds, making them wait until the last second to choose between the Lakers and Clippers. He is selfish, and you will see how well Kobe carries a team this year. Shaq showed up in the finals last year, Kobe didn't. He hit one game winner and other then that got dominated by Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. If scoring 36 points and grabbing 20 rebounds isn't showing up, then I guess Shaq didn't show up. I'd rather have a fat Shaq then an in shape Kobe. Shaq is more then stats, he takes double teams, sometimes even triple. Shaq will be a lot better off without Kobe then Kobe will be without him!!

Samphin
10-15-2004, 10:49 AM
Kobe was a cancer on the Lakers last season. Not the seasons before. Shaq held the Lakers down playing the toughest postion in the loaded Western Conference. Shaq cleared the lane for Kobe, end of story. Shaq won the series against the Kings, Shaq beat San Antonio all those years in a row, Shaq has 3 finals MVP's in a row. Kobe was Shaq's sidekick. You can say Shaq has no rings without Kobe and vice versa, the fact is that they both had none with Phil, and Phil says Kobe made things difficult last season, not Shaq. To summarize Kobe's personality. The Lakers gave into every demand he wanted and he still played with their minds, making them wait until the last second to choose between the Lakers and Clippers. He is selfish, and you will see how well Kobe carries a team this year. Shaq showed up in the finals last year, Kobe didn't. He hit one game winner and other then that got dominated by Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. If scoring 36 points and grabbing 20 rebounds isn't showing up, then I guess Shaq didn't show up. I'd rather have a fat Shaq then an in shape Kobe. Shaq is more then stats, he takes double teams, sometimes even triple. Shaq will be a lot better off without Kobe then Kobe will be without him!!


I guess Kobe has never taken a double or triple team then eh? Granted, not to the extreme that Shaq sees it, especially with the zone defense now, but he saw them nonetheless, and still found ways to hit the basket.

You say you would rather have a fat Shaq than an in shape Kobe? You have obviously never had a fat Shaq before. Fat Shaq has mysterious injuries that force FAT Shaq out of the lineup. Healthy Kobe gives you points, assists and creates shots for others. Hurt Kobe, still suits up while FAT injured Shaq uses company time to heal his injuries when he could have done them in the offseason. Of course, Shaq with the Heat isn't Fat Shaq, he is in shape Shaq, which should be dangerous for the East. However, it made me lose respect for him because for the past three or four years, he has showed up late and fat with the Lakers, the team that gave him the majority of his money in the NBA and got him three championships. Then, due to motivation, he has suddenly lost the excess fat and become leaner and meaner? Reeks of immaturity and pettiness.

Kobe created opportunities for Shaq too. Many times Kobe would drive the lane, taking the double team away from Shaq and have the defenders leave their feet, then he would simply dish it to Shaq for the easy dunk. It goes both ways.

I don't put much stock into what Phil is saying right now. As Kobe said, he is trying to sell books and doing so by letting out the "dirt" on the Lakers since everyone knows, that is what sells in the NBA ( Lakers ). Phil has embellished in the past and I wouldn't be surprised if he is using creative license here as well.

I think it is safe to say though, that Both Shaq and Kobe are better off together than they will be apart. I don't see Shaq winning a championship with the Heat ( although, like I said, I will be rooting for him ) and I don't see Kobe winning a championship in the west this year ( although I will be rooting for him ). The Pistons, Pacers, Spurs and T-wolves are just too strong and in my opinion, will be the odds on favorites to win it all.

Jwcolour
10-15-2004, 11:07 AM
I guess Kobe has never taken a double or triple team then eh? Granted, not to the exreme that Shaq sees it, especially with the zone defense now, but he saw them onetheless, and still found ways to hit the basket.

Yuo say you would rather have a fat Shaq than an in shape Kobe? You have obviously never ad a fat Shaq before. Fat Shaq has mysterious injuries that force FAT Shaq out of the lineup. Healthy Kobe gives you points, assists and creates shots for others. Hurt Kobe, still suits up while FAT injured Shaq uses company time to heal his injuries when he could have done them in the offseason. Of course, Shaq with the Heat isn't Fat Shaq, he is in shape Shaq, which should be dangerous for the East. Howeve,r it made me lose respect for him because for the past three or four years, he has showe dup late and fat with the Lakers, the team that gave h im the majority of his money in the NBA and got him three championships. Then, due to motivation, he has suddenly lost the excess fat and become leaner and meaner? Reeks of immaturity and pettiness.

Kobe created opportunities for Shaq too. Many times Kobe would drive the lane, taking the double team away from Shaq and have the defenders leave their feet, then he would simply dish it to Shaq for the easy dunk. It goes both ways.

I don't put much stock into what Phil is saying right now. As Kobe said, he is trying to sell books and doing so by letting out the "dirt" on the Lakers since everyone knows, that is what sells in the NBA ( Lakers ). Phil has embellishe din the past and I wouldn't be surprised if he is using creative liscense here as well.

I think it is safe to say though, that Both Shaq and Kobe are better off together than they will be apart. I don't see Shaq winning a championship with the Heat ( although, like I said, I will be rooting for him ) and I don't see Kobe winning a championship in the west this year ( although I will be rooting for him ). The Pistons, Pacers, Spurs and T-wolves are just too strong and in my opinion, will be the odds on favorites to win it all.

Amen.

PHINATIC13
10-15-2004, 07:34 PM
I agree. Nicely said.
I guess Kobe has never taken a double or triple team then eh? Granted, not to the exreme that Shaq sees it, especially with the zone defense now, but he saw them onetheless, and still found ways to hit the basket.

Yuo say you would rather have a fat Shaq than an in shape Kobe? You have obviously never ad a fat Shaq before. Fat Shaq has mysterious injuries that force FAT Shaq out of the lineup. Healthy Kobe gives you points, assists and creates shots for others. Hurt Kobe, still suits up while FAT injured Shaq uses company time to heal his injuries when he could have done them in the offseason. Of course, Shaq with the Heat isn't Fat Shaq, he is in shape Shaq, which should be dangerous for the East. Howeve,r it made me lose respect for him because for the past three or four years, he has showe dup late and fat with the Lakers, the team that gave h im the majority of his money in the NBA and got him three championships. Then, due to motivation, he has suddenly lost the excess fat and become leaner and meaner? Reeks of immaturity and pettiness.

Kobe created opportunities for Shaq too. Many times Kobe would drive the lane, taking the double team away from Shaq and have the defenders leave their feet, then he would simply dish it to Shaq for the easy dunk. It goes both ways.

I don't put much stock into what Phil is saying right now. As Kobe said, he is trying to sell books and doing so by letting out the "dirt" on the Lakers since everyone knows, that is what sells in the NBA ( Lakers ). Phil has embellishe din the past and I wouldn't be surprised if he is using creative liscense here as well.

I think it is safe to say though, that Both Shaq and Kobe are better off together than they will be apart. I don't see Shaq winning a championship with the Heat ( although, like I said, I will be rooting for him ) and I don't see Kobe winning a championship in the west this year ( although I will be rooting for him ). The Pistons, Pacers, Spurs and T-wolves are just too strong and in my opinion, will be the odds on favorites to win it all.

PHINATIC13
10-15-2004, 07:38 PM
Oh and BTW I don't see Shaq or Kobe winning any titles with there teams any time soon.:shakeno: Those two guys really messed up something special, they'll be sorry when they're old enough to look back and reflect on it.:shakeno:

FinsNYanksFan13
10-18-2004, 10:05 AM
Yeah well maybe Shaq and Kobe won't win without the other but Shaq at least has a chance. The Lakers have zero shot of winning it all, the Heat have a strong chance!!