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Martel
11-02-2004, 05:04 AM
Is it just me or is Eminem completely wack now? His 2 songs that he played sucked. He had a "backing track", just like Ashlee Simpson had, for his first song about Bush (which sounds like a angry high school student wrote it). I'm not even going to comment on "Just Lose It". That may be the worst song of the year. He dresses like Nelly or some shiz now and he's making gay references all the time. Looks like he believed his own hype. I think the good Doc Dre needs to step in or this could be the end of Elvis.

Muck
11-02-2004, 10:54 AM
I didn't see SNL this week, nor have I heard another track from his new album. But from what you're describing, it's sounds almost like he's desperate. Like he's trying to reach every possible audience and then shock us at the same time (gay references). Another thing that bothers me is that he's constantly using the same lyrics from his previous hit songs. That lacks originality. "Just Lose It".....it's like he ran out of ideas for that one, so he just included the first thing that came to his mind each time he went blank.

Also, it seems like almost all rappers have a backing track when I see them on TV. Basically doing karaoke, as there's usually no band. Just a guy spinning the single behind them. IMO that's worse than Ashlee Simpson (since she at least had a live band). But that's another topic I suppose.

Den54
11-02-2004, 11:34 AM
Is it just me or is Eminem completely wack now? His 2 songs that he played sucked. He had a "backing track", just like Ashlee Simpson had, for his first song about Bush (which sounds like a angry high school student wrote it). I'm not even going to comment on "Just Lose It". That may be the worst song of the year. He dresses like Nelly or some shiz now and he's making gay references all the time. Looks like he believed his own hype. I think the good Doc Dre needs to step in or this could be the end of Elvis.

What did you expect? He sucks, but lucky for him there are so many people out there that have no ear for music.

Pagan
11-02-2004, 11:44 AM
What did you expect? He sucks, but lucky for him there are so many people out there that have no ear for music.
Amen....

Jwcolour
11-02-2004, 11:46 AM
A while ago it appeared he had talent. Now we know that the only way he can sell records is by dissing people...so far off his new album its Michael Jackson, Mr. Bush, and Mariah Carey. All of which im sure have personally offended him in some way (sarcasm). His voice is annoying and he isn't even the best white rapper out there. Blaghgh

Martel
11-02-2004, 03:39 PM
Judging by your very heavy metal avatars, Harvester of Sorrow and Metal Dolfan, you don't really seem qualified to make any comments on any rap/hip-hop thread. I doubt it's your thing, right? I respect metal, but I wouldn't chime in on it.

BigFinFan
11-02-2004, 04:13 PM
Rap is Crap without the C

Honestly, some of the Rap is alright - Snoop, Beastie Boys, Dre, Tupac - these guys are artist.

Come on - Eminem SUCKS!

LIQUID24
11-02-2004, 04:17 PM
It's very popular to bash Eminem right now, but I won't judge him until his new album comes comes out. His first 3 albums were GREAT, and rap isn't even my favorite genre.

Pagan
11-02-2004, 04:52 PM
Judging by your very heavy metal avatars, Harvester of Sorrow and Metal Dolfan, you don't really seem qualified to make any comments on any rap/hip-hop thread. I doubt it's your thing, right? I respect metal, but I wouldn't chime in on it.
Since I'm a musician for 28 years now, I'm probably more qualified to comment on it than you are, my friend. Then again, since rap isn't really music, just talking over a backbeat....you may be right.

I chime in because I see talented musicians who can play actual instruments getting the short end of record deals because sheep all over the world have bought into this form of "music". Because I see these fools actually calling themselves "musicians" when they wouldn't know which end of the guitar to pluck. When I see the idiot media calling them "bands" and "artists" when the only music coming from them is sampled off a REAL musiciain's record. THAT'S why I chime in.

Want to see a rapper's head implode? Ask him what key his "song" is in. Then step back....cause it could get messy. :lol:

Jwcolour
11-02-2004, 06:15 PM
At the actual composition of music rap artists simply can't be compared to "instrumentalists" (is that a word)? Either way to actually rap it takes a bit of skill, especially when you ask people to freestyle and come up with it on the spot that's where real talent is involved. The problem is that rap and hiphop has become completely commercialized, you should try to get your hands on a copy of I think its called "Cool Hunting" by Frontline PBS. They talk to alot of the marketers to Sprite and other companies and they focus alot Sprite and how it isn't merely being advertised using hip-hop but that it is actually becoming a PART of the hiphop lifestyle. Until kids grow aware of the commercialization and that grown ups are in control and rap becomes less "cool" I wouldn't expect a resurgence of Rock. Hopefully when/if Rock is reborn then it won't be reincarnated into the crap we hear now (Good Charlotte, Simple Plan yadada) if it isn't whiny "punk" bands then its softer "rock" bands like Coldplay. To me right now the only band that I see with alot of success that have kept it real are The Foo Fighters who've been staying successful since Alternative Rock was still "cool". Sure you still see bands like U2 and such, but it almost seems like they are trying to live off their name now...nothing against U2 because I enjoyed some stuff off their last album but when I saw Bono in that Target commercial (I think it was target, maybe gap)...I was grossly detested, but I guess you gotta make your money somehow in this punk/rap dominated world. A new band right now that I find trying to bring back and embody the aspects of Rock of old are The Darkness...before I picked up their last album I never really realized that there aren't much in the way of kick *** guitar solo's anymore in the mainstream...oh well.

It really isn't even so much that the "true talented artists" aren't making money from deals or selling records...its just that there isn't a reliable medium for them to be able to get the music out to potential fans who they can draw to see one of their shows.

I'm more of a fan of R&B than rap though and the man who gets the least amount of respect musically is undoubted R. Kelly who due to his court case people forget the genius in this guys work.

ohall
11-02-2004, 06:29 PM
I thought je lip sync'd on the first sone.

Pagan
11-02-2004, 06:35 PM
You should look to Europe, JW. Rock is alive, well, and thriving there. European kids have the insight to love what's new while still retaining what's classic. That's why bands from the 70's and 80's still tour to big crowds there.

American kids have been duped by eMpTV to just want the "flavor of the month".

I do agree that rappers have the talent to do what they do, it's just not musical talent. This was made FRIGHTENINGLY apparent when Snoop Dogg attempted to actually sing a Metallica song during the "MTV Icons" concert. Jesus, send up a flare when you're even close to being in key, okay Snoop? :lol:

Martel
11-02-2004, 07:31 PM
Since I'm a musician for 28 years now, I'm probably more qualified to comment on it than you are, my friend. Then again, since rap isn't really music, just talking over a backbeat....you may be right.



Being that I am also a musician who gets paid alot of money for what I do, I am very qualified to comment on this Dark Master. I won't run off my resume but let's just hope that by the time I'm 42 I'm not criticizing what the younger generation is into and telling them about the days when "music was music". If you had any vision at all, you would see the artistry in all forms of music. You'd know that it's ever evolving and that when metal came along there were people ignorant to the movement who we're saying the same sort of sh!t your dropping on us. You don't know what you're talking about. Point blank. Open your mascara covered eyes and show some phucking respect.

Pagan
11-02-2004, 07:46 PM
I didn't insult you personally, so your "mascara covered eyes" comment just shows you to be pretty "phucking" immature, as well as not having a "phucking" clue as to what metal was all about. And it also shows that you can't carry on a decent debate on a topic without resorting to being a "gangsta". :rolleyes:

I didn't criticize the entire younger generation for their tastes, so maybe you can get the "cocked to the side baseball cap" off YOUR eyes and actually read what I said before you insert your Luggs into your mouth. There's alot of good new music coming out (Tool comes to mind) so I wasn't aiming at everything. And I agree, rap IS an art form. The art of stealing other's work. Look at the biggest hits the genre has ever had, all sampled from classic songs. P. Diddy is the worst culprit of this.

I have vision, more than you could probably imagine. My songs aren't created by stealing someone else's music. I listen to everything from classical to blues to funk to metal to classic rock to country to R&B to Doo Wop to New Age and then some, so for you to say I don't know what I'm talking about - "point blank" - means that even at that range you're holding the gun cocked to the side like most other rappers do.

Discussion over, unless you can grow up and reply without resorting to personal insults.

Martel
11-02-2004, 08:18 PM
I didn't insult you personally, so your "mascara covered eyes" comment just shows you to be pretty "phucking" immature, as well as not having a "phucking" clue as to what metal was all about. And it also shows that you can't carry on a decent debate on a topic without resorting to being a "gangsta". :rolleyes:

I didn't criticize the entire younger generation for their tastes, so maybe you can get the "cocked to the side baseball cap" off YOUR eyes and actually read what I said before you insert your Luggs into your mouth. There's alot of good new music coming out (Tool comes to mind) so I wasn't aiming at everything. And I agree, rap IS an art form. The art of stealing other's work. Look at the biggest hits the genre has ever had, all sampled from classic songs. P. Diddy is the worst culprit of this.

I have vision, more than you could probably imagine. My songs aren't created by stealing someone else's music. I listen to everything from classical to blues to funk to metal to classic rock to country to R&B to Doo Wop to New Age and then some, so for you to say I don't know what I'm talking about - "point blank" - means that even at that range you're holding the gun cocked to the side like most other rappers do.

Discussion over, unless you can grow up and reply without resorting to personal insults.

First of all I'm not a rapper and second, I did read what you wrote. I read every word and thats why I got upset. Not all rap is good I would never say that, alot of it is crap. I hate the bling mentality that is all prevelant in rap today. But you can't just dimiss it completely and say it's the "art of stealing". Non musical? Did you hear the latest Outkast? Have you heard Dr. Dre's production? Do you think any knucklehead who can play three chords on a guitar is more talented than someone like Timbaland? You probably don't know who that is do you? I'm just saying that you have formed an uneducated opinion based on what you have seen on MTV or heard on the radio. I love rock, probably not the kind of rock you like, but Queens of the Stone Age, Weezer etc. I've been listening to the Black Keys alot lately. There are all types of music that I don't listen to but I would never criticize a whole genre with sweeping generalizations. I'm sorry about the end of my last comment, I just felt like you were being a snob. Now I gotta go get into my low rider and check on my bizniatches :tongue:

PS- You're right I didn't have a clue of what metal was about. I never said I did, but that's why I don't go yapping about it because I'd probably sound dumb. But come on, you've never worn mascara? Not even once......???

Pagan
11-02-2004, 08:29 PM
Probably one of the reasons why written media sucks. Too much can be taken out of context. I came across as a snob, you came across as a rapper. We both missed the mark here!

Just to set the record straight, I'm not one of those mindless robots who think anything metal is great. I can't stomach hair bands. So no, I don't think some fool like CC DeVille is more talented than Timbaland. (yup, I know who he is. :tongue: ) However, I'd place Al Dimeola a bit above him. ;)

That's where we missed the mark on each other. I'm not a "Beavis & Butthead" metal fan. I listen to prog metal, which is a bit out there musically. Dream Theater, Symphony X, Adagio, bands like that. Mindblowing musicianship. I hate the "3 chord" bands as much as anyone else....of course with the exception of AC/DC. Ya can't help but love those guys!

Anyway, truce bro....we're both probably on edge due to the fact that our team blows. :lol:

PS - Queens of the Stone Age are excellent, and Weezer's videos RULE. Now let me go comb my mullet and start up my Camaro! ;)

Oh wait....strike that...I DON'T have a mullet!

Martel
11-02-2004, 08:33 PM
and Al Dimeola rules........I own 6 of his LP's on vinyl!

Jwcolour
11-02-2004, 11:08 PM
PS - Queens of the Stone Age are excellent, and Weezer's videos RULE. Now let me go comb my mullet and start up my Camaro! ;)

Oh wait....strike that...I DON'T have a mullet!

Amen to Queens...not a Weezer fan anymore after the blue album and pinkerton really...the last 2 albums have sucked real bad.

Dream Theater also does some wild stuff

Pagan
11-03-2004, 12:22 AM
Dream Theater also does some wild stuff
You should hear Adagio then..... :eek: