PDA

View Full Version : Artest gets 30 game suspension | UPDATE - REST OF SEASON



MikeO
11-21-2004, 10:55 AM
FOX SPORTS RADIO is reporting Ron Artest will be suspended for 30 games.

Jermain O'Neal and Stephen Jackson will get 20 games.

Ben Wallace will get 5 games


These are all too short in my opinion, but oh well. And they are the only ones reporting this as of now so take it for what its worth. But, FSR is pretty good at this stuff.

iceblizzard69
11-21-2004, 11:10 AM
30 games? Artest doesn't deserve more than 10.

Nice way to ruin the Pacers season. They are going to suck so bad for the next 20 games. I wouldn't have given any of them more than 10.

It also sucks that Ben Wallace gets less than all of them, because it was him who started all of this.

MikeO
11-21-2004, 11:12 AM
30 games? Artest doesn't deserve more than 10.

Nice way to ruin the Pacers season. They are going to suck so bad for the next 20 games. I wouldn't have given any of them more than 10.

It also sucks that Ben Wallace gets less than all of them, because it was him who started all of this.
ESPN is reporting Artest might get the DEATH PENALTY and a 1-year suspension.

FOX SPORTS RADIO is reporting that it has already came down and the NBA just hasn't announed it publicly yet. And its 30 games. So its who you believe right now.

LIQUID24
11-21-2004, 11:44 AM
30 games is way too much.

MikeO
11-21-2004, 11:54 AM
30 games is way too much.
Not enough in my opinion.

And I hope ESPN's report of the rest of the season is correct!

You can't go into the stands and hit fans. I don't care what the fans say or throw, you can't do it! When you walk into the stands, hit fans, start a riot..... you probably should be thrown out of the league. 30 games is getting off easy!

FIN-IN-RI
11-21-2004, 11:57 AM
dayum. Just what he wanted though..

CirclingWagons
11-21-2004, 12:06 PM
He got lucky...Stephen Jackson got REALLY lucky.

Muck
11-21-2004, 12:32 PM
It also sucks that Ben Wallace gets less than all of them, because it was him who started all of this.

The reason being he kept it on the court.

inFINSible
11-21-2004, 12:34 PM
The reason being he kept it on the court.
Yep.

FinFan84
11-21-2004, 12:58 PM
30 games, what a joke, it should be at least one year. If not more. This sub-human ***-wipe started a riot. The NBA is dying,and a joke.

Jimmy James
11-21-2004, 01:33 PM
Ben is at this point my favorite player in the NBA. I think you can argue his suspension a couple of ways, though. If the fans and the Pacers players didn't act like utter jackasses, would he have even seen a suspension? I doubt it. At the same time, what he did contributed to what happened after it. Artest didn't have any business fouling him hard at the end of that sort of game, but Ben didn't have any business taking such offense at it. Knowing what I do about him, I have to think that Artest wasting his talent on R&B album promotion and asking for time off crawled all over Ben. Ben is the blue collar, hard working, team guy image that any league would love to have, and Ron pissed all over it.

I'm shocked that Jackson and O'Neal are getting off so light. The only thing I can think of is that they are going to ring up Artest for the year, so they're going to go easy on the other two and stagger their suspensions to give the Pacers some sort of chance.

Noodle Arm
11-21-2004, 02:43 PM
Well Artest is getting what he wanted. Now he can promote the album and get his "rest"

Fresh
11-21-2004, 03:09 PM
FOX SPORTS RADIO is reporting Ron Artest will be suspended for 30 games.

Jermain O'Neal and Stephen Jackson will get 20 games.

Ben Wallace will get 5 games


These are all too short in my opinion, but oh well. And they are the only ones reporting this as of now so take it for what its worth. But, FSR is pretty good at this stuff.

I hope to God....David Stern gets punched in his face like that fat f*** who JO knocked out. Seriously. :shakeno:

Martel
11-21-2004, 05:05 PM
I think it's fair. I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing if I was Artest, but it was definitely wrong. He took the low road on this one and now he's gotta pay for it. I just hope that jack *** in the white hat who threw the cup does ALOT of community service or something.

nyjunc
11-21-2004, 06:07 PM
Supposedly those #s are wrong and they better be and if not this is complete BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Artest and Jackson should have been suspended at least half the year and Artest should be gone for the year! This is a joke and David Stern should be ashamed of himself. What a joke! I know the fans were idiotic and they deserve to be arrested but Artest incited this brawl and then attacked a fan in the stands so he should have been a gone a MINIMUM of the rest of the season.

Muck
11-21-2004, 07:08 PM
Just announced:

Ron Artest - Rest of Season
Stephen Jackson - 30 games
Jermaine O'Neal - 25 games
Anthony Johnson - 5 games
Ben Wallace - 6 games

All with no Pay

Eldon Campbell - 1 game
Chauncey Billups - 1 game
Derrick Coleman - 1 game
Reggie Miller - 1 game

These guys get $35,000 fines.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1928540

PerfectFinz72
11-21-2004, 07:09 PM
ESPN has reported Artest is gone for the year. Good job by the NBA. This clown deserved it.

Fresh
11-21-2004, 07:10 PM
ESPN has reported Artest is gone for the year. Good job by the NBA. This clown deserved it.

Shut up. He got hit in the mouth with a damn bottle, now what would YOU of done?

Muck
11-21-2004, 07:13 PM
Looks like the Heat just moved up a seed.

iceblizzard69
11-21-2004, 08:00 PM
Shut up. He got hit in the mouth with a damn bottle, now what would YOU of done?

I agree. I think Artest made a mistake by going into the stands, but I don't blame him for going in there. He may have overreacted, but he was provoked. He did deserve a 10 or 15 game suspension, but suspending him for the rest of the season is just ridiculous.

Something I would really like to see is a 5 game home ban for the Pistons. They should be forced to play some of their home games in empty stadiums. The fans deserve punishment too.

FinFan84
11-21-2004, 08:51 PM
Shut up. He got hit in the mouth with a damn bottle, now what would YOU of done?

Your a loser x-con normal people call police/security, we dont live in anarchy. Go promte crime somewhere else, your posts are degenerating and embarrising.

VJ1252
11-21-2004, 10:21 PM
Your a loser x-con normal people call police/security, we dont live in anarchy. Go promte crime somewhere else, your posts are degenerating and embarrising.
Its easy to say that if you havent been in that sitaution. If somebody came to your work and threw a beer bottle at your head can you say you def would have just called security?

MikeO
11-21-2004, 10:26 PM
YES!!!!!! Great job by David Stern and the NBA!

I would also put Artest on a "last chance" type of letter. If he does something like this again, he is BANNED FOR LIFE!!!!!!

Deez Nutz
11-22-2004, 12:31 AM
HAHA!!!

CirclingWagons
11-22-2004, 12:38 AM
Goodbye Ronny...you won't be missed.

Atleast he has time to promote his "rap" album now. Christ what a f'ing clown

Samphin
11-22-2004, 12:47 AM
It seems kind of harsh to me. The way I see it, if a fan gets on the court, they are fair game. In the case of Jermaine O'neal, the fan was on the court, and he punche dhim. Artest went into the stands as did Jackson. Jackson's punched actually looked worse to me than Artest's while in the stands. The guy Ron Artest punched who was on the court is fine by me. Everyone wants to villify the players, but the fans need to know how to react all the same. Those punks who got on the court deserved to be pummeled.

In baseball, if a fan gets on the field, the players have tackled and punched them without a problem, the same should happen in NBA games.

I used to be a Pro Wrestler, and we had, what I think, was good security surrounding the ringside area. However, on occasion, some moron would hop the railing slip past security and get in the ring. At that point, as a performer/athlete, you have no idea what these maniacs will do, so you defend yourself and subdue them anyway you can. Monica Seles was STABBED by a supposed fan. She had no time to call for security. Any fan in any sport that wants to step foot on the playing surface should be well aware that their face is most likely going to be caved in, and rightfully so.

Having said that, I think Artest should have been suspended, but not for an entire season. A precedent had been set before with Rodman, Maxwell and others. Given the fact that there were no major injuries and the most likely event of lawsuits and possible criminal charges, I think this punishment is too harsh. I would be shocked if the Player's Union doesn't fight this.

ohall
11-22-2004, 12:52 AM
Good when you go into the stands you are 100% wrong. That is why there is security and Police in every stadium.

He is a disgrace to all sports.

ohall
11-22-2004, 12:53 AM
I hope to God....David Stern gets punched in his face like that fat f*** who JO knocked out. Seriously. :shakeno:

So much anger. Do you play basketball by the way?

ohall
11-22-2004, 12:54 AM
Its easy to say that if you havent been in that sitaution. If somebody came to your work and threw a beer bottle at your head can you say you def would have just called security?

If you went after them you would run the risk of losing your job without a doubt. You would also run the risk of being arrested. There is a reason we have the rule of law.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:00 AM
So much anger. Do you play basketball by the way?

Yes I do. And here we go with the stereotypes... :shakeno:

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:01 AM
Your a loser x-con normal people call police/security, we dont live in anarchy. Go promte crime somewhere else, your posts are degenerating and embarrising.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I'm not a loser, I'm just not a punk. Go promote "crime" elsewhere? No, how about you get your own forum? Then maybe you can tell me where I can and cannot post.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:04 AM
Looks like the Heat just moved up a seed.

And now have a better chance at going 1-0 on Detroit, as Ben will not play in our first meeting on Friday. :)

ohall
11-22-2004, 01:05 AM
Yes I do. And here we go with the stereotypes... :shakeno:

Here you dropped your chip off your shoulder. You should take better care of that thing, seriously.

Stereo type if you mean a person who has a lot of anger who plays basketball? Yea that is what I thought of you right away. Outside of that I have no doubt you are pushing your own stereo types onto what I typed.

ohall
11-22-2004, 01:06 AM
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I'm not a loser, I'm just not a punk. Go promote "crime" elsewhere? No, how about you get your own forum? Then maybe you can tell me where I can and cannot post.

I saw no cup thrown at you!

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:38 AM
I saw no cup thrown at you!

Umm, your point? This is an issue being discussed, and really has nothing to do with anybody here. It's all about opinions. :shakeno:

ohall
11-22-2004, 01:42 AM
Umm, your point? This is an issue being discussed, and really has nothing to do with anybody here. It's all about opinions. :shakeno:

Yea, now where did I imply the oppsite?

I promise I don't have a blue cup, I promise.

tehMick
11-22-2004, 01:43 AM
The suspension is obscene.
Oh and can someone tell me why the f*ck Jermaine O'Neal got suspended 25 games?
Was it because he punched the s*it out of that fat f*ck who jumped Artest while on the court?
I like the message David Stern is sending to the Players Association.
Not only can fans can come onto the court and attack you when youre not looking but it is encouraged that they do so.
But be careful in retaliating...
Because if you so much as harm a single hair on their head you will be suspended for 25 games.
Way to go David Stern.
Youve ruined the NBA.
:m83: David Stern

Dolphan7
11-22-2004, 01:43 AM
Is it me or has there been a marked increase in fan/player violence in all sports in the last 2 years? I even see politicians (in other countries) duking it out. Parents at soccer games. Have we become this un-civil as a society? What is going on?

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:46 AM
Is it me or has there been a marked increase in fan/player violence in all sprts in the last 2 years? I even see politicians (in other countries) duking it out. Parents at soccer games. Have we become this un-civil as a society? What is going on?

Exactly. The fans had no business throwing stuff at the player.

You want real "gangstas" and "thugs"? Try the fans who threw stuff at RICK CARLISILE. That was as un-civil as it gets.

MikeO
11-22-2004, 01:47 AM
Exactly. The fans had no business throwing stuff at the player.

You want real "gangstas" and "thugs"? Try the fans who threw stuff at RICK CARLISILE. That was as un-civil as it gets.
This coming from you, a man who said if Ron Artest killed someone you would go out and buy his jersey the next day!

Sorry, your credibility is shot on this topic!

LIQUID24
11-22-2004, 01:49 AM
The suspension is obscene.
Oh and can someone tell me why the f*ck Jermaine O'Neal got suspended 25 games?
Was it because he punched the s*it out of that fat f*ck who jumped Artest while on the court?
I like the message David Stern is sending to the Players Association.
Not only can fans can come onto the court and attack you when youre not looking but it is encouraged that they do so.
But be careful in retaliating...
Because if you so much as harm a single hair on their head you will be suspended for 25 games.
Way to go David Stern.
Youve ruined the NBA.
:m83: David Stern
:yeahthat: :yes:

Dolphan7
11-22-2004, 01:53 AM
Is the rule in the NBA that if a fan goes on the court he gets his *** beat? What's that all about? I hear this as an excuse for the brawl. Are they also pressing charges against the fans involved because that shoe fits as well to.

Dolphan7
11-22-2004, 01:55 AM
Exactly. The fans had no business throwing stuff at the player.

You want real "gangstas" and "thugs"? Try the fans who threw stuff at RICK CARLISILE. That was as un-civil as it gets.
Are the fans getting prosecuted? They should if they threw punches or threw objects.

tehMick
11-22-2004, 01:58 AM
Theres a difference between going on the court and going on the court and attacking a player.
In which case, he deserves to get whatever happends to him.
Be it at the hands of law enforcement, mascots, cheerleaders, waterboys, and/or other players.

Is the rule in the NBA that if a fan goes on the court he gets his *** beat? What's that all about? I hear this as an excuse for the brawl. Are they also pressing charges against the fans involved because that shoe fits as well to.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 01:59 AM
This coming from you, a man who said if Ron Artest killed someone you would go out and buy his jersey the next day!

Sorry, your credibility is shot on this topic!

No, my credibility is shot down in "your" opinion, one that I really don't care about.

If Artest beat the punk who threw the bottle and hit him in the face to death...that's harsh, but so be it. You start a violent scene, then oh well...you brought it onto yourself.

And for the record, I said I was going to get a Stephen Jackson jersey.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 02:01 AM
Theres a difference between going on the court and going on the court and attacking a player.
In which case, he deserves to get whatever happends to him.
Be it at the hands of law enforcement, mascots, cheerleaders, waterboys, and/or other players.
Exactly.

If you pose a threat to somebody, whatever happens with your life is your own fault.

ohall
11-22-2004, 02:06 AM
No, my credibility is shot down in "your" opinion, one that I really don't care about.

If Artest beat the punk who threw the bottle and hit him in the face to death...that's harsh, but so be it. You start a violent scene, then oh well...you brought it onto yourself.

And for the record, I said I was going to get a Stephen Jackson jersey.

OK I thought I was dealing with a rational person. I stand corrected.

Peace.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 02:14 AM
OK I thought I was dealing with a rational person. I stand corrected.

Peace.

LOL, thats pretty funny...

inFINSible
11-22-2004, 07:39 AM
Artest deserves to be suspended longer than the rest of the season.

Dolphan7
11-22-2004, 12:01 PM
Whenever you take the law into your own hands it usually ends up bad. Getting even or getting revenge just doesn't work. That is why we have laws and a judicial system. I saw Mark Jackson and ESPN 2 last night trying to justify Artest actions, saying that you can't disrespect a person. That's a bunch of crap in my opinion. First off respect is earned not just given because you are a basketball star or whatever. Second if someone is disrespecting you you can be the better man and walk away. Take the high road. I hear this word allot these days "disrespectin". I hear people saying how they will cause bodily harm if anyone disrespects them. Who the hell do these people think they are? What a bunch of crap. It makes no sense. You think your going to gain respect by lowering yourself to the same level as an animal? Fighting to defend your life or your home is understandable. But fighting because someone threw some juice at you?
Wah Wah Wah:shakeno:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Muck
11-22-2004, 12:29 PM
I saw Mark Jackson and ESPN 2 last night trying to justify Artest actions, saying that you can't disrespect a person. That's a bunch of crap in my opinion. First off respect is earned not just given because you are a basketball star or whatever.

So because Artest has a history of ON-COURT misbehavior, that gives some jerk in the stands the right to throw things at him whenever the mood strikes him??

I agree that it's better to walk away. But when you're adrenaline is pumping like that and your emotions are at a heightened level, sometimes it doesn't take much for you to snap. Especially when somebody third party hits you in the face with something.

tehMick
11-22-2004, 12:46 PM
Thank you Mr. Kornheiser.
:roflmao:
Like Michael Wilbon would say; "You're a Dope!"
:chuckle:

Whenever you take the law into your own hands it usually ends up bad. Getting even or getting revenge just doesn't work. That is why we have laws and a judicial system. I saw Mark Jackson and ESPN 2 last night trying to justify Artest actions, saying that you can't disrespect a person. That's a bunch of crap in my opinion. First off respect is earned not just given because you are a basketball star or whatever. Second if someone is disrespecting you you can be the better man and walk away. Take the high road. I hear this word allot these days "disrespectin". I hear people saying how they will cause bodily harm if anyone disrespects them. Who the hell do these people think they are? What a bunch of crap. It makes no sense. You think your going to gain respect by lowering yourself to the same level as an animal? Fighting to defend your life or your home is understandable. But fighting because someone threw some juice at you?
Wah Wah Wah:shakeno:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

MikeO
11-22-2004, 01:01 PM
So because Artest has a history of ON-COURT misbehavior, that gives some jerk in the stands the right to throw things at him whenever the mood strikes him??

I agree that it's better to walk away. But when you're adrenaline is pumping like that and your emotions are at a heightened level, sometimes it doesn't take much for you to snap. Especially when somebody third party hits you in the face with something.
He was hit with some water. He wasn't shot........wasn't hit with a brick.....a metal pipe wasn't thrown his way. WATER! It was friggin water! Of course it was WRONG of the fan to throw it, but if you get hit with water it doesn't mean you can run up into the stands and start a brawl.

And if you don't like the fact fans MIGHT throw stuff at you (even though its wrong) and that fans WILL yell some nasty verbal assaults your way, GET A NEW JOB AND DON'T PLAY IN THE NBA!

FinFan84
11-22-2004, 03:57 PM
X-Con, you are a sad and deangerous person. Seek help. Check out this quote from x-con, in a different Ron Artest thread:
X-Con wrote this:
"Props to Ron. I started this thread bashing him, and he's still an a** for the music thing. However, I gained a LOAD of respect for him tonight. This sounds harsh, but if he KILLED THE GUY, I'd go buy me a Ron Artest jersey tomorrow morning, as soon as Pro Image opens."

Im sure you never had a family member killed by a dipstick thug, or you would not write this, grim.

Phinzone
11-22-2004, 04:49 PM
I can't believe anyone is defending this loser!

When you buy a ticket to a sporting event, you bought the right to heckle, to shout, and to boo. You did not buy the right to throw bottles on court, but it happens in EVEERY game. Tell me a single professional game of any sport where you haven't seen something thrown on the field of play. Is it right? hell no! The difference? MOST PLAYERS DON'T GO RUNNING INTO THE STANDS THROWING PUNCHES AND STARTING RIOTS!

ARTEST brought this on himself NO ONE else. How many football players ran into the fans a few years back when NE fans started throwing Ice balls? How many times have you seen Bret Favre upper cut a fan for pouring drinks on his head at lambeau as they go into the lockerroom losing badly at half? How many college BB players have you seen rush into the stands beating the crap out of fans for throwing ice on the court?

Artest used piss poor judgement, he DOES deserve this suspension. he's got a problem, he's a liability as long as he's on the court. A normal person doesn't snap because of rowdy fans. A criminal however rushes into the stands throwing punches at evereyone within reach.

Fresh
11-22-2004, 05:38 PM
X-Con, you are a sad and deangerous person. Seek help. Check out this quote from x-con, in a different Ron Artest thread:
X-Con wrote this:
"Props to Ron. I started this thread bashing him, and he's still an a** for the music thing. However, I gained a LOAD of respect for him tonight. This sounds harsh, but if he KILLED THE GUY, I'd go buy me a Ron Artest jersey tomorrow morning, as soon as Pro Image opens."

Im sure you never had a family member killed by a dipstick thug, or you would not write this, grim.

I'm not at all a dangerous person....as long as you don't put your hands on me or anybody in my family.

Don't blame me for being fair. The guy put Ron in danger, so if he reacts by putting him in danger...SO BE IT!

Btw- I have a few cousins and friends from H.S. who sell drugs(I have many, many cousins...so there's bound to be a few). If one of them die, what can I say? Was it not expected? No. If you're killed by a gangsta, chances are...you're a gangsta too, and if that's the case, you didn't pick the right life. Come on, look where I came from...I've seen people get shot before and I've known people who have been shot before, some killed.

inFINSible
11-22-2004, 06:14 PM
I love the way Ron Artest is some kind of hero because he rushed some random fan for throwing a cup of water at him....like he was defending his honor or something.....but 1 minute earlier Wallace gives him two forearms to the grill and he goes and lays down.

The big bad *** will attack a fan but, he won't step to Wallace after he gets smacked in the face TWICE.

Samphin
11-23-2004, 02:24 AM
I love the way Ron Artest is some kind of hero because he rushed some random fan for throwing a cup of water at him....like he was defending his honor or something.....but 1 minute earlier Wallace gives him two forearms to the grill and he goes and lays down.

The big bad *** will attack a fan but, he won't step to Wallace after he gets smacked in the face TWICE.

Now wait a minute, you can't villify for fighting then call him a coward when he walks away. It is either one or the other

I don't buy that coward line for a second. Artest was trying to be the better person. Wallace was the punk who started the melee. He got fouled, and it wasn't even a hard foul at that, and because his team was losing, he acted like a child and pushed Artest.

Ron Artest is a fighter, I think part of the reason he snapped the way he did was because he was holding in his anger from Wallace. Ben not only pushed him, but then continued to berate Artest and then threw his little panty headband at him as well, like a little sissy. Ron sat there and took it like a man. Add on that those idiotic and moronic fans are threatening Artest and ultimately led to violence against Artest, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I don't care if it was water or a bucket of acid. When you are blindsided by something from opposing fans you will jump up automatically and go after who did it. It is a human response that when you are attacked, you either fight or run away. Fight or Flight is what it is called. Ron, after all the BS he had to deal with from Wallace and those stupid Detroit thugs, finally snapped after being assaulted.

You cannot "wait for security" when fans do things like this. Teryr Gamboa of the K.C. Royals was jumped by to fans at a White Sox game while coaching first base. You think the players who helped him waited for security? If they had, you all would have calle dthem cowards. Monica Seles was stabbed during a tennis match. You think she wouldn't have pounded the guy if she could have? I guess people who have never been put in that situation just don't get it. I have, and there is no scarier feeling then seeing some fan run up to you, or throw things at you. You have no idea what is going on.

Suppose the thing that hit Artest was a glass bottle and it lacerated his face. Would you then be opposed to him beating the guy who did it? I doubt it. I guarentee that when Ron was hit by the cup, he didn't know what hit him, he just knew he was assaulted and that someone was going to pay for it.

I agree he should be suspended, but Jermaine O'neal shouldn't have and Stephen Jackson's penalty was too harsh as well. If the league really wanted to send a message, they wouldn't allow postseason play to happen in Detroit or Indiana. That would send a profound message to everyone in the league and throughout sports in America in general. Make the team play all of their games on the road, or ban them completely form postseason play. Hell, Stenr already did it to the Pacers.

The worst part is, the crimnal fans wil most likely get off with minor fines. I hope Ron Artest sues that guy in the white hat for all the 12 dollars that guy has.

Again, Artest should have been suspended, but not for an entire year.

CirclingWagons
11-23-2004, 02:46 AM
I love the way Ron Artest is some kind of hero because he rushed some random fan for throwing a cup of water at him....like he was defending his honor or something.....but 1 minute earlier Wallace gives him two forearms to the grill and he goes and lays down.

The big bad *** will attack a fan but, he won't step to Wallace after he gets smacked in the face TWICE.
simple Infins...Artest is, and always has been a coward, just like kenyon martin and every other wanna be thug in the NBA

ohall
11-23-2004, 03:01 AM
So because Artest has a history of ON-COURT misbehavior, that gives some jerk in the stands the right to throw things at him whenever the mood strikes him??

I agree that it's better to walk away. But when you're adrenaline is pumping like that and your emotions are at a heightened level, sometimes it doesn't take much for you to snap. Especially when somebody third party hits you in the face with something.

Then why hasn't that ever happened before? I've never seen a NBA player run into the stands and start a fight before. Have you? I've seen hockey players do it and we all know how well that sport is doing.

Due to that I think it is only rational to look at what has recently changed that would cause such an irrational thing to happen. Our society is starting to show true signs of decay IMO. Sports is a public place to see where we stand as a society, at this point we do not look very civilized.

As far as the person throwing the cup, that is a minor crime. Is it even a crime? At most that person would be tossed and that would be the end of it. It does not justify anyone going after them and to inflict physical harm on the person that threw that cup. Well unless he felt like he was tried, or if he was dissed. No no we can't have that, we must protect this house!

ohall
11-23-2004, 03:04 AM
Now wait a minute, you can't villify for fighting then call him a coward when he walks away. It is either one or the other


Yea you can. Wallace would have put Artest in the hospital if they were to fight. However a standard fan is not 6 foot 9 inches and 240 pounds.

inFINSible
11-23-2004, 07:39 AM
Now wait a minute, you can't villify for fighting then call him a coward when he walks away. It is either one or the other

I don't buy that coward line for a second. Artest was trying to be the better person. Wallace was the punk who started the melee. He got fouled, and it wasn't even a hard foul at that, and because his team was losing, he acted like a child and pushed Artest.

Ron Artest is a fighter, I think part of the reason he snapped the way he did was because he was holding in his anger from Wallace. Ben not only pushed him, but then continued to berate Artest and then threw his little panty headband at him as well, like a little sissy. Ron sat there and took it like a man. Add on that those idiotic and moronic fans are threatening Artest and ultimately led to violence against Artest, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I don't care if it was water or a bucket of acid. When you are blindsided by something from opposing fans you will jump up automatically and go after who did it. It is a human response that when you are attacked, you either fight or run away. Fight or Flight is what it is called. Ron, after all the BS he had to deal with from Wallace and those stupid Detroit thugs, finally snapped after being assaulted.

You cannot "wait for security" when fans do things like this. Teryr Gamboa of the K.C. Royals was jumped by to fans at a White Sox game while coaching first base. You think the players who helped him waited for security? If they had, you all would have calle dthem cowards. Monica Seles was stabbed during a tennis match. You think she wouldn't have pounded the guy if she could have? I guess people who have never been put in that situation just don't get it. I have, and there is no scarier feeling then seeing some fan run up to you, or throw things at you. You have no idea what is going on.

Suppose the thing that hit Artest was a glass bottle and it lacerated his face. Would you then be opposed to him beating the guy who did it? I doubt it. I guarentee that when Ron was hit by the cup, he didn't know what hit him, he just knew he was assaulted and that someone was going to pay for it.

I agree he should be suspended, but Jermaine O'neal shouldn't have and Stephen Jackson's penalty was too harsh as well. If the league really wanted to send a message, they wouldn't allow postseason play to happen in Detroit or Indiana. That would send a profound message to everyone in the league and throughout sports in America in general. Make the team play all of their games on the road, or ban them completely form postseason play. Hell, Stenr already did it to the Pacers.

The worst part is, the crimnal fans wil most likely get off with minor fines. I hope Ron Artest sues that guy in the white hat for all the 12 dollars that guy has.

Again, Artest should have been suspended, but not for an entire year.
fight or flight huh?.....You're absolutely right...... "fight" the fan who throws water at you and "flight" from the MAN who is ready to whip your a$$.

Today's lesson: missplaced anger.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
O'Neal's penalty was a bit harsh but, I can certainly see what the league is upset about. The guy that O'Neal hit had already been hit by Artest and was not a threat to anyone because security was helping him to his feet so they could take him away.....THAT'S when O'Neal decides to start running and launch himself into this punch that, if it had landed, could have KILLED the guy....Picture that for a second.....What if Jermaine O'neal actually KILLED the guy?....Think about it! The guy was already in custody and O'Neal comes flying in out of no where, and tries to hit this guy with EVERYTHING he had.....O'Neal is lucky he's just suspended and not locked up for real.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess people who have never been put in that situation just don't get it. I have, and there is no scarier feeling then seeing some fan run up to you, or throw things at you. You have no idea what is going on.
Please, tell me the story.

Wildbill3
11-23-2004, 07:51 AM
Watch pulp fiction. Pride will **** you up. it messes with your head. take the money and walk away.

Samphin
11-23-2004, 11:46 AM
fight or flight huh?.....You're absolutely right...... "fight" the fan who throws water at you and "flight" from the MAN who is ready to whip your a$$.

Today's lesson: missplaced anger.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
O'Neal's penalty was a bit harsh but, I can certainly see what the league is upset about. The guy that O'Neal hit had already been hit by Artest and was not a threat to anyone because security was helping him to his feet so they could take him away.....THAT'S when O'Neal decides to start running and launch himself into this punch that, if it had landed, could have KILLED the guy....Picture that for a second.....What if Jermaine O'neal actually KILLED the guy?....Think about it! The guy was already in custody and O'Neal comes flying in out of no where, and tries to hit this guy with EVERYTHING he had.....O'Neal is lucky he's just suspended and not locked up for real.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please, tell me the story.

OK, here is your story for you. I used to be a professional wrestler. Our job was to stir up fans. Make them either love you, or hate you. Every now and then, we run angles that are controversial. Angles that fans become emotionally attached too. They throw things at you, they yell and scream at you. Most of the time, you are able to ignore it, and even enjoy since you realize you have done your job correctly. However, fans are all around you. 360 degrees around you in fact. When projectiles start coming, I used to get out of the irng and get to the back. If the story needed me out there longer, I would generally get my back against a wall so that I could see everything coming my way. I was in a ring when a fan hit a fellow wrestler in the head with a soda bottle half filled with urine. The wrestler who was hit, didn't even know it was urine until later. All he knew was that he was hit in the head and it came from a certain direction. You don't think he had a right to go into the stands and question who it was?

Another instance happened while I wasn't wrestling (due to injury) and instead was helping to run security detail from behind the crowd at ringside. A fan jumped the rail while his buddy distracted security. He jumped the rail, got into the ring and ran right for one of our performers. Our wrestler in turn, layed the guy out with one punch. He had no idea if this guy was carrying as knife or worse, a gun. Yeah, we have security checks but people get through with weapons all the time. I have dealt with unruly fans before and know the danger. I guarentee that with Artest, who is a fighter and has some anger management issues, he didn't know what he was hit with. He just knew he was hit and someone was going to pay. I am not saying he was right, I am just saying I know where he was coming from having bene in similar situatons.

If you read my post, I agree he should be suspended but not for an entire season.

As for the guy O'neal punched, the guy shouldn't have been on the court. Again, Security obviously wasn't doing their job because had they been, they should have dragged his big butt off the court way before Jermaine had a chance to take a poke at him. Bottom line, if you are a fan and you come into the playing area, you are fair game. Simple as that. Now, had he killed him, obviously it would bring on criminal charges and rightfully so. But, I stand by my stance the performers have a right to defend themselves against unruly fans who pose a threat to them by coming onto the playing area.

Again too, you cannot fault a guy for walking away form a fight in the same sentence in which you condemn him for fighting, it is hypocritical. Had Wallace been a real man and just taken his free throws, Artest never rus into the stands.

Also, Ohall as far as other situations of players running into the stands at NBA games, tow come to mind. Vernon Maxwell beat the hell out of a fan back in the 90's and received 20 games. Dennis Rodman kicked a courtside phtographer in the crotch and got 11. It has heppened before and the precedent for games was set. Stern overstepped this precedent and went overboard with the penalties.

MikeO
11-23-2004, 12:50 PM
OK, here is your story for you. I used to be a professional wrestler. Our job was to stir up fans. Make them either love you, or hate you. Every now and then, we run angles that are controversial. Angles that fans become emotionally attached too. They throw things at you, they yell and scream at you. Most of the time, you are able to ignore it, and even enjoy since you realize you have done your job correctly. However, fans are all around you. 360 degrees around you in fact. When projectiles start coming, I used to get out of the irng and get to the back. If the story needed me out there longer, I would generally get my back against a wall so that I could see everything coming my way. I was in a ring when a fan hit a fellow wrestler in the head with a soda bottle half filled with urine. The wrestler who was hit, didn't even know it was urine until later. All he knew was that he was hit in the head and it came from a certain direction. You don't think he had a right to go into the stands and question who it was?

Another instance happened while I wasn't wrestling (due to injury) and instead was helping to run security detail from behind the crowd at ringside. A fan jumped the rail while his buddy distracted security. He jumped the rail, got into the ring and ran right for one of our performers. Our wrestler in turn, layed the guy out with one punch. He had no idea if this guy was carrying as knife or worse, a gun. Yeah, we have security checks but people get through with weapons all the time. I have dealt with unruly fans before and know the danger. I guarentee that with Artest, who is a fighter and has some anger management issues, he didn't know what he was hit with. He just knew he was hit and someone was going to pay. I am not saying he was right, I am just saying I know where he was coming from having bene in similar situatons.

If you read my post, I agree he should be suspended but not for an entire season.

As for the guy O'neal punched, the guy shouldn't have been on the court. Again, Security obviously wasn't doing their job because had they been, they should have dragged his big butt off the court way before Jermaine had a chance to take a poke at him. Bottom line, if you are a fan and you come into the playing area, you are fair game. Simple as that. Now, had he killed him, obviously it would bring on criminal charges and rightfully so. But, I stand by my stance the performers have a right to defend themselves against unruly fans who pose a threat to them by coming onto the playing area.

Again too, you cannot fault a guy for walking away form a fight in the same sentence in which you condemn him for fighting, it is hypocritical. Had Wallace been a real man and just taken his free throws, Artest never rus into the stands.

Also, Ohall as far as other situations of players running into the stands at NBA games, tow come to mind. Vernon Maxwell beat the hell out of a fan back in the 90's and received 20 games. Dennis Rodman kicked a courtside phtographer in the crotch and got 11. It has heppened before and the precedent for games was set. Stern overstepped this precedent and went overboard with the penalties.
You can't compare your situation with Artest's. YOU WERE A PRO WRESTLER and as you said it as your job to get the fans all hot and worked up. That is how you make your money. So, for you or another wrestler to be shocked when someone actually throws something at you is crazy. You were trying to get a reaction out of them and you did! So, for a wrestler to work a crowd up to the point where they start throwing stuff...and then for the wrestlers (you) to get upset and want to storm into the crowd is DUMB BEYOND BELIEF!

Not to mention Artest was hit with a cup of friggin water! WATER. A plastic cup of WATER! No physical harm was done to him. The guy wasn't injured in any way. Of course it was wrong for the fan to throw it, but if you get hit with a cup of water and can't walk away from it, then that person is seriously f'd up in the head.

inFINSible
11-23-2004, 05:59 PM
OK, here is your story for you. I used to be a professional wrestler. Our job was to stir up fans. Make them either love you, or hate you. Every now and then, we run angles that are controversial. Angles that fans become emotionally attached too. They throw things at you, they yell and scream at you. Most of the time, you are able to ignore it, and even enjoy since you realize you have done your job correctly. However, fans are all around you. 360 degrees around you in fact. When projectiles start coming, I used to get out of the irng and get to the back. If the story needed me out there longer, I would generally get my back against a wall so that I could see everything coming my way. I was in a ring when a fan hit a fellow wrestler in the head with a soda bottle half filled with urine. The wrestler who was hit, didn't even know it was urine until later. All he knew was that he was hit in the head and it came from a certain direction. You don't think he had a right to go into the stands and question who it was?

Another instance happened while I wasn't wrestling (due to injury) and instead was helping to run security detail from behind the crowd at ringside. A fan jumped the rail while his buddy distracted security. He jumped the rail, got into the ring and ran right for one of our performers. Our wrestler in turn, layed the guy out with one punch. He had no idea if this guy was carrying as knife or worse, a gun. Yeah, we have security checks but people get through with weapons all the time. I have dealt with unruly fans before and know the danger. I guarentee that with Artest, who is a fighter and has some anger management issues, he didn't know what he was hit with. He just knew he was hit and someone was going to pay. I am not saying he was right, I am just saying I know where he was coming from having bene in similar situatons.

If you read my post, I agree he should be suspended but not for an entire season.

As for the guy O'neal punched, the guy shouldn't have been on the court. Again, Security obviously wasn't doing their job because had they been, they should have dragged his big butt off the court way before Jermaine had a chance to take a poke at him. Bottom line, if you are a fan and you come into the playing area, you are fair game. Simple as that. Now, had he killed him, obviously it would bring on criminal charges and rightfully so. But, I stand by my stance the performers have a right to defend themselves against unruly fans who pose a threat to them by coming onto the playing area.

Again too, you cannot fault a guy for walking away form a fight in the same sentence in which you condemn him for fighting, it is hypocritical. Had Wallace been a real man and just taken his free throws, Artest never rus into the stands.

Also, Ohall as far as other situations of players running into the stands at NBA games, tow come to mind. Vernon Maxwell beat the hell out of a fan back in the 90's and received 20 games. Dennis Rodman kicked a courtside phtographer in the crotch and got 11. It has heppened before and the precedent for games was set. Stern overstepped this precedent and went overboard with the penalties.
Thanks Samphin, that was quite intersting. :D Sounds like some scary stuff.

Here's my problem with Artest only getting suspended for 20 or 30 games.....

Last week he ASKED for a month off so he could promote a CD release.

If you give him that 20 or 30 games, you're practically not punishing him at all because that's what he wants.

And as for O'Neal, that Fan was being helped up and, I assume, being taken into custody by security before O'Neal was even involved. That fan posed absolutely no threat to O'Neal or anyone else at the time O'Neal launched himself at the fan.

And that was, by no definition, a "poke"....It was a running haymaker delivered by a 260 lb, 7 foot tall athlete....If that would have landed cleanly, it most certainly could have ended that man's life.

A punch like that practically ended Rudy Tomjonavich's playing career. And Rudy aint no small guy like that fan was. That was a DANGEROUS punch, and considering the possible consequences, unjustifiable in any way.

IMO of course.

What was your wrestling charater's name? I bet you have some great stories...

Fresh
11-23-2004, 06:01 PM
Watch pulp fiction. Pride will **** you up. it messes with your head. take the money and walk away.

If it's a lot of money, then LOL...I really can't disagree with that. :)

Samphin
11-24-2004, 12:13 AM
Thanks Samphin, that was quite intersting. :D Sounds like some scary stuff.

Here's my problem with Artest only getting suspended for 20 or 30 games.....

Last week he ASKED for a month off so he could promote a CD release.

If you give him that 20 or 30 games, you're practically not punishing him at all because that's what he wants.

And as for O'Neal, that Fan was being helped up and, I assume, being taken into custody by security before O'Neal was even involved. That fan posed absolutely no threat to O'Neal or anyone else at the time O'Neal launched himself at the fan.

And that was, by no definition, a "poke"....It was a running haymaker delivered by a 260 lb, 7 foot tall athlete....If that would have landed cleanly, it most certainly could have ended that man's life.

A punch like that practically ended Rudy Tomjonavich's playing career. And Rudy aint no small guy like that fan was. That was a DANGEROUS punch, and considering the possible consequences, unjustifiable in any way.

IMO of course.

What was your wrestling charater's name? I bet you have some great stories...

I would agree to a point that the guy posed no threat. However, there is always a chance that the guy could be some whacko with a knife,gun, slingshot ( they can put an eye out! ) and the fact that he went on the court, brought on O'neal's actions to himself. I am glad he isn't seriously hurt, but I am slo glad that he most likely learned his lesson and will never do it again. The thing that kills me too is that you know a lot of those punk fans are going to go back to their neighborhoods and just brag about how they fought with NBA players and how it was because of them, that the Pacers are not in the playoffs this year. That brings me to another point, this precedent that Stern set puts the trigger in fan's minds that all they have to od is get an opposing player to rush at them, and that team will end up losing that player for the year. You don't think every team from now on goes after the start players to try to give their own team a leg up? I am a Lakers fan and if I was in earshot of Tim Duncan and an idiot fan ( which I like to think I am not ) I would threaten everything I could to him to get him to punch me. That way, the Spurs are done as a contender and the Lakers's chances improve.

As for the wrestling stories. I have a few ;) . I don't have as many as most wrestlers though because, quite honestly, that business is about the scummiest, bizarre, yet equally beautiful and euphoric business in the world. It really was a wild ride. I don't od it anymore, but every now and then, I get "the itch" and end up suplexing my girlfriend, who by now, is used to it. I figure I will do it again eventually, but for now, I have a mortgage ( at 22! eck! ) and a steady job, so I think I will keeep the remainder of my brain cells...at least until 25. PM me if you are interested in some stories or anything like that.

ohall
11-24-2004, 12:20 AM
Also, Ohall as far as other situations of players running into the stands at NBA games, tow come to mind. Vernon Maxwell beat the hell out of a fan back in the 90's and received 20 games. Dennis Rodman kicked a courtside phtographer in the crotch and got 11. It has heppened before and the precedent for games was set. Stern overstepped this precedent and went overboard with the penalties.


Maxwell didn't beat anyone up, he did however run into the stands because the fan was saying something inappropriate about his child. I believe he stood over the fan and yelled and then he was then pulled away.

Dennis Rodman is just more proof the NBA is reaping what they have sewn recently. The thug mentality they have fostered for some time just bit them on their azz. Further kicking a camera man is far from running into the stands.

Stern should have banned Artest from the NBA until he can prove through therapy he will never do this again. Artest got off easy IMO. He has a long history of acting like a thug and until now they have played softball with him. Before this his total fine tally was 150k. If they want to stop these millionaires from acting like street thugs they need to hit them in their wallets IMO. Thankfully they are doing that this time.

Samphin
11-24-2004, 12:23 AM
You can't compare your situation with Artest's. YOU WERE A PRO WRESTLER and as you said it as your job to get the fans all hot and worked up. That is how you make your money. So, for you or another wrestler to be shocked when someone actually throws something at you is crazy. You were trying to get a reaction out of them and you did! So, for a wrestler to work a crowd up to the point where they start throwing stuff...and then for the wrestlers (you) to get upset and want to storm into the crowd is DUMB BEYOND BELIEF!

Not to mention Artest was hit with a cup of friggin water! WATER. A plastic cup of WATER! No physical harm was done to him. The guy wasn't injured in any way. Of course it was wrong for the fan to throw it, but if you get hit with a cup of water and can't walk away from it, then that person is seriously f'd up in the head.


That really is a naive position to state. If anything, you make my argument for me. You say I had no right to be surprised because I am trying to get a reaction. therefore, that is more reason why Artest SHOULD have been surprised. He wasn't looking for a reaction from the crowd, yet, he got one. Thanks for making my point for me.

As for being a wrestler and we should expect it, that is just dumb. To a certian extent, yes, we crave the cheering and the verbal abuse. Heck, one time, while walking to the ring, a young women informed me that she was going to use a strap on and skull f#ck my mother. I smiled to myself and padded myself on the bak for a job well done. Yes, we expect verbal abuse and verbal threats. However, we are/were performers who do not expect to be attacked with items thrown at us or by other unruly fans who hop barriers. The key word is barriers. We have them up everywhere. That is the line in the sand, so to speak. You cross that, I can no longer guarentee your safety. especially if you are coming towards me.

To a certain extent, as a heel, you expect things to be thrown at you, however, that doesn't make it right. My uncle was a pro wrestler way back when Kayfabe was still in tact. He wore a mask and was known as The Spoiler. Anyhow, one night, after his match was done and he was leaving the arena, some nutjob met him in the parking lot and demanded he take off his mask. Not breaking character, my uncle, under no uncertain terms, told him to go away ( I am sure he said please as well. :lol: ). This "fan" ended up stabbing him before running away. He didn't see my uncle's face so he stabbed him.

Another time, My uncle was wrestling in Mexico and while driving away form the arena, was shot at due to people recognizing the mask and hating his character so much. Perhaps through my personal experiences, my views are somewhat skewed, but if fans are going to get out of line and try to become part of the show/game/match, I feel it is my duty to protect not only my life, but the lifves of my fellow workers and those of other fans and subdue those nutjobs by hook or crook. If you have to punch/choke/kick a guy to get them under control, you do it.

Artest blew a gasket, and like I said, he should be suspended, however, I see where he was coming from and still think the penalty was too harsh.

Samphin
11-24-2004, 12:28 AM
Maxwell didn't beat anyone up, he did however run into the stands because the fan was saying something inappropriate about his child. I believe he stood over the fan and yelled and then he was then pulled away.

Dennis Rodman is just more proof the NBA is reaping what they have sewn recently. The thug mentality they have fostered for some time just bit them on their azz. Further kicking a camera man is far from running into the stands.

Stern should have banned Artest from the NBA until he can prove through therapy he will never do this again. Artest got off easy IMO. He has a long history of acting like a thug and until now they have played softball with him. Before this his total fine tally was 150k. If they want to stop these millionaires from acting like street thugs they need to hit them in their wallets IMO. Thankfully they are doing that this time.

I have no problem fining the guy up the wazoo. Lets face it, taking their money form them is the only way they probably will learn. However, you can fine him and suspend him for less games. A 30 game, four million dollar fine does just as much as a full season/five million dollar fine does in my opinion. Take as much money as you deem appropriate and you will not get an argument from me. I would love to just play basketball for free. I cannot fathom getting paid to play it. I have a problem with the suspension personally. Realistically, the NBA ends up hurting itself in the process. The Pacers are now pretyt much out of contention with their best three players gone for a long while. Attendance will surely drop and revenue will be down for Indiana. That leads to lower overall numbers for the NBA. I think Stern made a mistake and overshot his boundaries here. I still say the union will fight this all the way.