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CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 03:36 PM
Last year the the Giants and Chargers set a barometer for dealing a top first round pick.The Chargers got Rivers,a 2004 No3 , 2005 No 1 and No 5.


In effect they got two No 1s,one No 3 and one No 5 just for moving down four spots


Consequently if a team from the middle of the draft order would want to trade up we should expect to get at least two No 1s,a No 3 and a No 4.

There is a chart called the Draft pick value chart which sets some guidelines as to the relative trade value of picks.


http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm)



The Dallas Cowboys and the San Diego Chargers are the only team possesing two No 1 picks this year.The way they stand at the present time the Cowboys posess the 12 and 16 spots in the first round.The Chargers currently occupy the 18 and 26 draft position spots .


http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/currentdraftorder.htm (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/currentdraftorder.htm)


Using the charts and the assumption that we will have the No 2 or No 3 draft position in the upcoming draft we can make the following comparisons :


*No 2 position is worth 2600 points
*No 3 position is worth 2200 points
*Dallas draft positions add up to 2200 points
*Chargers draft positions add up to 1600 points.


Theoretically if the Cowboys wanted to trade their two picks for our No 1 we could get their two first picks in a straight swap.The Chargers would have to add some later picks to sweeten the pot .


That does not preclude other teams from trading up.There might be several teams who would be willing to sacrifice high future picks in order to challenge for a SB next year.The general rule of thumb in trading future picks is one round higher than in the present draft.A No 2 round pick in the present draft would be equivalent to a No 1 round pick in the following draft.

IMO I think we should consider taking future draft picks as part of the mix in an eventual tradedown for the following reasons:


*Its a relatively weak draft in positions we may need such as OL and QB.


*We are in a rebuilding mode and we need to accumulate draft picks for what I believe should be a three year plan to be competetive again.



*There may not be anyone interested in moving up unless we accept future picks as part of the package.


Draft Notes:This may not be the year to draft a franchise QB with the top pick although there may be several second tier QBs who could turn out to be just as good or better than the top two.

Included in this second tier are players you have heard off on this board such as Charlie Frye,Dan Orlovsky,Jason Campbell,Alex Smith ,Andrew Walters.

Also there are other QBs who could be taken in the later rounds such as LeFors and Mc Phearson.My favorites are the first three mentioned.


The bios for the top 150 players can be found at this site:
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/top.html (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/top.html)

Baz
12-06-2004, 03:40 PM
:clap:

_dan24
12-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Nice post. I hope we do trade down

ErroneousFlint
12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Last year the the Giants and Chargers set a barometer for dealing a top first round pick.The Chargers got Rivers,a 2004 No3 , 2005 No 1 and No 5.

In effect they got two No 1s,one No 3 and one No 5 just for moving down four spots

Consequently if a team from the middle of the draft order would want to trade up we should expect to get at least two No 1s,a No 3 and a No 4.

There is a chart called the Draft pick value chart which sets some guidelines as to the relative trade value of picks.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm)


The Dallas Cowboys and the San Diego Chargers are the only team possesing two No 1 picks this year.The way they stand at the present time the Cowboys posess the 12 and 16 spots in the first round.The charges currently occupy the 18 and 26 draft position spots .

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/currentdraftorder.htm (http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/currentdraftorder.htm)

Using the charts and the assumption that we will have the No 2 or No 3 draft position in the upcoming draft we can make the following comparisons :

*No 2 position is worth 2600 points
*No 3 position is worth 2200 points
*Dallas draft positions add up to 2200 points
*Chargers draft positions add up to 1600 points.

Theoretically if the Cowboys wanted to trade their two picks for our No 1 we could get their two first picks in a straight swap.The Chargers would have to add some later picks to sweeten the pot .

That does not preclude other teams from trading up.There might be several teams who would be willing to sacrifice high future picks in order to challenge for a SB next year.The general rule of thumb in trading future picks is one round higher than in the present draft.A No 2 pick in the present draft would be equivalent to a No 1 in the following draft.

IMO I think we should consider taking future draft picks as part of the mix in an eventual tradedown for the following reasons:

*Its a relatively weak draft in positions we may need such as OL and QB.

*We are in a rebuilding mode and we need to accumulate draft picks for what I believe should be a three year plan to be competetive again.

Draft Notes:This may not be the year to draft a franchise QB with the top pick although there may be several second tier QBs who could turn out to be just as good or better than the top two.Included in this second tier are players you have heard off on this board such as Charlie Frye,Dan Orlovsky,Campbell,Alex Smith ,Andrew Walters.Also there are other QBs who could be taken in the later rounds such as LeFors and Mc Phearson.My favorites are the first three mentioned.

Assuming we trade down and get two No 1s a No 3,and a No 4 .I am formulating what will be the first of my many mock drafts.:rolleyes: .

No 1a Alex Barron-OT

No 1b Ronnie Brown-RB

No 3a Charlie Frye ,Dan Orlovsky or Campbell -QB

No 3b Rodrique Wright-DT

No 4 Jason Brown or Wilkerson-C

In addition I believe we will need help at the WR,OG positions.

I know a lot of you will find holes in this writeup but it does gives us a base from which to operate on so be free to take pot shots.

BTW the Dolphin writer for the site mentioned is also a Finheaven member and will participate in the discussion.His user name is Gunner.

His mock draft can be found at
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/DolphinsColumn.htm

So!! does this mean we can trade some guy with a bum hamstring for an offensive doo-dah?? to dallas that is....

NJFINSFAN1
12-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Wilkerson will be way gone before the 4th round and I think Wright will be gone earlier also.

Oboy
12-06-2004, 03:43 PM
I like that but really think Wilkerson will be off the board before the second day. I also don't think Ronnie Brown will make it out of the top 10. Don't get me wrong I like your ideas, but some of it will have to be adjusted for where these college guys will go. At this time last year Andrews was supposed to be a top 3 pick... Things change as the combine comes around.

AggieFin21
12-06-2004, 03:51 PM
I like your thinking and agree we should wait to pick up a QB in the later rounds. (I'm a big fan of Orlovsky) Only thing I find wrong w/ it is that Rod Wright will be gone by the 3rd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 1st....

BALLS DEEP
12-06-2004, 03:53 PM
BArron and Brown sounds awesome to me.

BALLS DEEP
12-06-2004, 03:59 PM
I thought we had a second round pick for the Ogun trade.

Smoke
12-06-2004, 04:01 PM
Sounds great but what teams do you really think may trade up and for who? Is there any one player who's value will be nearly as high as E.Mannings was for the Giants last year?

Bowl_Bound
12-06-2004, 04:06 PM
I thought we had a second round pick for the Ogun trade.
We got a 3rd and then traded ours :cry: for Gordon, the RB from St Loius.

Philter25
12-06-2004, 04:06 PM
Sounds great but what teams do you really think may trade up and for who? Is there any one player who's value will be nearly as high as E.Mannings was for the Giants last year?exactly.

In order for those "points" to work, there has to be a player on board WARRANTING a trade like that. Eli is a franchise QB. NO PLAYER in this draft is worth your entire draft to get. We are NOT going to get that. If we can pick up a latter 1st rounder and an early 2nd and a 3rd, its a good trade. I think thats the BEST we are going to get for our #2 pick.

I think the only pick we NEED to take is Wilkerson/Brown with a late 2nd/early 3rd pick.

As long as we take a DT/OT/RB with the 1st pick, and another with the 2nd pick, its cool with me.

arsenal
12-06-2004, 04:08 PM
yeah wright will be no where on the board after the 1st round...

Nicky Napoleon
12-06-2004, 04:22 PM
Rodrique Wright is the best DT in the draft, he will not only be gone by the 3rd, but he will be gone by the 15th pick. If we end up with your scenario falling into place I think a much more likely draft is
1a Rodrique Wright DT Texas
1b Elton Brown G UVA
3a Ben Wilkerson C LSU
3b Alex Smith QB Utah/Dan Orlovsky QB UCONN
4 Safety (I havent gotten this far in looking at the top prospects yet.)

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 04:53 PM
Wilkerson will be way gone before the 4th round and I think Wright will be gone earlier also.

I guess you can call it a wish list rather than a mock draft.However it does accurately represent positional needs.Its too early yet for mock drafts.We have top see how these players compare in the combines.

Danny1339
12-06-2004, 05:17 PM
Wow this must be a good thread, I actually read it.

Fresh
12-06-2004, 05:17 PM
Rodrique Wright is the best DT in the draft, he will not only be gone by the 3rd, but he will be gone by the 15th pick.

Yeah, no way in hell Wright is still there at the end of day 1(provided he stays healthy). He's top 10 on most boards, top 5 on some, and atleast top 15 on all.

DPlus47
12-06-2004, 05:50 PM
just to add .02, i see the pick the chargers get from the giants getting better by the week. anybody else think the giants are winning another game?

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 06:40 PM
Sounds great but what teams do you really think may trade up and for who? Is there any one player who's value will be nearly as high as E.Mannings was for the Giants last year?



There are some franchise players in the upcoming draft which do not meet our positional needs.Antrelle Rolle,Michael Williams and especially Derrick Johnson who has been likened to Lawrence Taylor in impact

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 07:30 PM
Rodrique Wrighthttp://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif













Strengths: Great size...Excellent athletic ability with good speed and quickness...Very good strength...Has the potential to be a force stopping the run as well as rushing the passer...Still has a lot of upside.



Weaknesses: Needs to work on his technique...Plays too high and loses leverage...May have to either gain or lose some weight when it is determined whether he will be more of a one-gap or two-gap tackle.



Notes: Was an impact player right away as a true freshman...Has everything you look for in a premier defensive tackle and still has a high upside...Will be a high draft pick whenever he chooses to come out.

YPF
12-06-2004, 07:46 PM
Very good post and informative.I never really knew that we could get that much by trading down.I say lets do it.

Roman529
12-06-2004, 07:58 PM
La


No 3a Charlie Frye ,Dan Orlovsky or Campbell -QB
If we should pass on Leinert and Rodgers, I would like us to go after Stefan LeFors. Everytime I watch Louisville, LeFors seems to have big games...he seems to have all the leadership skills, even if he may only be around 6'0"

I hope that San Fran loses to Arizona this weekend so we can maybe get closer to the top pick.

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 08:29 PM
If we should pass on Leinert and Rodgers, I would like us to go after Stefan LeFors. Everytime I watch Louisville, LeFors seems to have big games...he seems to have all the leadership skills, even if he may only be around 6'0"



I hope that San Fran loses to Arizona this weekend so we can maybe get closer to the top pick.

You can take two inches and 15 lbs off the college bios.LeFors is closer to 5'10" some say smaller.

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 08:36 PM
College: Akron Height: 6-4
Position: Quarterback Weight: 228
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.6

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/03/pFrye_Charlie04-1.jpg

Strengths: Excellent leader and field general...Smart and tough...Good size...Good natural athleticism and speed...Durable...Accurate passer...Has been very productive...Combines top intangibles with good physical ability and measurables.




Weaknesses: Doesn't have a big arm...Needs to get stronger...Will birddog his receivers at times...Will make some mistakes by trying to force throws...Hasn't played against a lot of top teams so level of competition may be a concern.



Notes: Almost came out after his junior season and entered the 2004 NFL Draft where he was projected as a 3rd or 4th round pick...Could be the next great signal caller from the MAC, following in the footsteps of Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich and Ben Roethlisberger.

UTFan10
12-06-2004, 08:42 PM
Im a UT fan and live in texas, and i heard on ABC during the A&M game that Wright told Mack he was staying his mom wants him to get the degree.

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 08:55 PM
Im a UT fan and live in texas, and i heard on ABC during the A&M game that Wright told Mack he was staying his mom wants him to get the degree.
Thanks for that info.Here is another DT that is highly rated.
Anttaj Hawthorne

College: Wisconsin Height: 6-3
Position: Defensive Tackle Weight: 305
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.9

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.uwbadgers.com/photos/full_photo.aspx?pic_filename=hawthorne_anttaj_fb_04_01h)

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Has great size and long frame...Very strong...Has a lot of experience...Can be unblockable at times and almost forces offenses to devote two men to him...Can play the run as well as get after the quarterback...Has a good burst and good closing speed...Does a good job shedding blocks...Solid, reliable tackler.

Weaknesses: Has an inconsistent motor and can disappear for stretches...Doesn't have elite speed and quickness...Still relies on his natural talent too much.

Notes: A better prospect than Wendell Bryant was coming out of college...Erasmus James stole some of his thunder as a senior, but Hawthorne is one of the top defensive players in the draft.

DOLFANMIKE
12-06-2004, 09:07 PM
Yes. A Trade back that could get us a DT in the top 16 picks and an OL in the top 32 would be a nice couple pickups that could help us shore things up.....

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 10:17 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gifRonnie Brown

College: Auburn Height: 6-1
Position: Running Back Weight: 224
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.45

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Very good size...Great speed...Excellent receiver out of the backfield...Very strong and runs hard...Has good balance...Displays good vision and hits the hole hard...Can run over defenders or run away from them.
Weaknesses: Never had the opportunity to be the main ball carrier in college...Not real shifty...Has had some minor injuries problems and durability might be a question mark...Not an explosive runner.


Notes: Overshadowed by Cadillac Williams but may in fact be the better pro when all is said and done...One of the best, if not the best, all-around running back prospects in this draft.

SMadison29
12-06-2004, 10:31 PM
I also don't think Ronnie Brown will make it out of the top 10.

Very doubtful. With there being 3 RBs grading out in the top 15(1-Benson, 2-Williams, 3-Brown) only one will go in the top 10 while the others fall to the 20s as recent history has shown us.


I would like us to go after Stefan LeFors. Everytime I watch Louisville, LeFors seems to have big games...he seems to have all the leadership skills, even if he may only be around 6'0"

A very good college player that's a great leader. Physical restraints hurt him a lot

miamirw
12-06-2004, 10:32 PM
Alright, let me try:

I worked this out last night.

Using the trade chart, and starting with the number two overall to start. We trade with Dalls for their two number 1s, then trade both of those down again a couple of times and pick up the corresponding value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (trade #4 overall down to 26 and pick up corresponding value two 2s and a 3).

1A (#20) - Marcus McNeil, T
1B (#26) - Elton Brown, G
2A (#36) - Anttaj Hawthorne, DT
2B (#54) - Matt Roth, DE
3A (#76) - Mike Patterson, DT
3b (#78) - Ben Wilkerson, C
4. (#98) - Andrew Walters, QB
5. (#130) - JJ Arrington, RB

McNeil will probably end up as a TOP 5 pick, the best LT in the draft, but for now, he's ranked in most draft publications at the 20 spot or thereabouts. This draft adresses ALL of our needs. Arrington likely will go higher too with good workouts at the draft. He's a very talented back but for some reason he's not getting alot of pub.

I like getting our two new young DT's from this draft. They can learn behind Chester next year and be ready to start (both of them by 2006). MCNeil and Brown would be devastating in the run game added with James and Carey. We should probably sign a veteran center to compete with Wilkerson and maybe he beats him out.

Walters is hurt, so he may slip before the draft. If he does we should try and get him in the fourth. If not Walters, I really like Orlavski out of UConn...

spydertl79
12-06-2004, 10:35 PM
If we trade surtain to clear cap room then
1a: Antrelle Rolle
1b: Rodrique Wright
3a: Smith or Orlovsky
3b:Wilkerson

SMadison29
12-06-2004, 10:38 PM
Very reasonable but Walter's shoulder surgery won't cause the top senior QB to drop past the 2nd round.

miamirw
12-06-2004, 10:40 PM
Sounds great but what teams do you really think may trade up and for who? Is there any one player who's value will be nearly as high as E.Mannings was for the Giants last year?

Isn't Antrelle Rolle high on the Cowboys' draft board. They need a CB desperately and Rolle is supposed to be the best football player in the draft. Buffalo continues to play well, so that first rounder will be a lower one (probably around pick #20). They would give us the #4 and the #20 for the #2 overall in case whoever picks at #3 will take Rolle. That's basically what NY did last year. They were at #4. They wanted their guy so they paid through the nose. Granted Rolle is not a QB, but We're not asking as much as San Diego asked for that move.

jesusfreak26
12-06-2004, 10:40 PM
I like the QB from Louisville don't know how to spell his last name lol

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 10:44 PM
I like the QB from Louisville don't know how to spell his last name lol
Stefan LeFors
http://www.draftshowcase.com/StefanLeFors.htm

He may be too small at 5'10" .Average arm stregth.

miamirw
12-06-2004, 10:44 PM
Very reasonable but Walter's shoulder surgery won't cause the top senior QB to drop past the 2nd round.

Very true. The more I looked into this guy the more I like. What an arm. He'd be perfect to pair with Feely. THAT would be a true QB competition. Not that joke of a battle we had this year. That's two very strong arms at the QB spot.

Also, keep an eye on McNeil, I'm telling you, this guy is going to be a beast. Much better than Gallery was, closer to Ogden in terms of physical attributes.

The dream OLIne, what we all agree wins Championships:

McNeil James Wilkernson Brown Carey

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 10:51 PM
Very reasonable but Walter's shoulder surgery won't cause the top senior QB to drop past the 2nd round.http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2004/12/3634-1.jpeg

Andrew Walter
Official Bio
College: Arizona St. Height: 6-5
Position: Quarterback Weight: 235
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.85

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Has great size...Excellent arm strength and a quick release...Decent athletic ability...Good intangibles and a leader on the field...Pocket passer who will sit back and read a defense...Very smart and a film junkie.

Weaknesses: Needs to be more consistent with his mechanics...Won't ever be mistaken for Michael Vick as a scrambler...Will force the occasional throw...Played in a pass-happy offense...Had a bit of an up and down career.

Notes: Going into his junior season many had him pegged as a future #1 overall pick but he struggled after losing some key members of his supporting cast...Bounced back in 2004 and had a good, productive senior campaign...Should develop into a good starting quarterback in the pros.

jesusfreak26
12-06-2004, 11:21 PM
Stefan LeFors
http://www.draftshowcase.com/StefanLeFors.htm

He may be too small at 5'10" .Average arm stregth.
Didn't know all his stats just love to watch him play. The thing I like about him is he is a great story his whole family is deaf and he can scramble as well as throw the deep ball.

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 11:22 PM
Didn't know all his stats just love to watch him play. The thing I like about him is he is a great story his whole family is deaf and he can scramble as well as throw the deep ball.
Yes its a great story.You pull for guys like that.

RHoffman
12-06-2004, 11:28 PM
despite the draft value chart...last year's draft was far more talent laden...you won't get near the bounty for trading down. I think there is a lot of people out there who would consider trading down 3 spots (2 to 5) if it meant an extra 1, etc...but that's not necessarily realistic at this point.

You are also putting way too much value in Alex Barron at this point. He is nowhere near the player Gallery was coming out of college. Marcus McNeil from Auburn is a junior and if he comes out...he will go ahead of Barron...bet on it.

CrunchTime
12-06-2004, 11:35 PM
despite the draft value chart...last year's draft was far more talent laden...you won't get near the bounty for trading down. I think there is a lot of people out there who would consider trading down 3 spots (2 to 5) if it meant an extra 1, etc...but that's not necessarily realistic at this point.

You are also putting way too much value in Alex Barron at this point. He is nowhere near the player Gallery was coming out of college. Marcus McNeil from Auburn is a junior and if he comes out...he will go ahead of Barron...bet on it.If you noticed I mentioned it was not a good draft for OL.


If he comes out

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gifMarcus McNeill

Official Bio
College: Auburn Height: 6-9
Position: Offensive Tackle Weight: 340
Class: Junior 40-Yard: 5.05

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Has a huge frame and is simply massive...Great athletic ability...Does an excellent job as both a run and pass blocker...Still has loads of potential and upside.

Weaknesses: May be too tall and could struggle with leverage...Has had some back problems so that will have to be checked out...Prospect who is still developing and not yet a finished product.

Notes: Blocked for Jason Campbell and led the way for two of the best running backs in the nation in Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown...Amazing physical specimen who would likely rank as one of the top players at his position should he leave early for the NFL Draft.

arsenal
12-06-2004, 11:44 PM
well if dallas keeps winning we'd have a bette rchance of getting both their number 1s for our number 1, but if they have say the number 5-9 picks i dont think we'll get that AND their other number 1 for ours... we'd prob have to settle for a 2nd and the 5-9 pick... forget a draft chart, im thinking more about bill parcells thinking...

so if dallas ends up with like the 15th and 20th picks in the draft we could prob nab those, cause they are DEF gonna be going after rolle in the draft, as is KC and with KC falling fast if they have the 3rd pick... dallas would have to take our 2nd pick to get rolle...

CrunchTime
12-07-2004, 12:46 AM
Dan Orlosky
Official Bio
College: Connecticut Height: 6-5
Position: Quarterback Weight: 226
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 5.0

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Has ideal size for an NFL signal caller...Great leader and field general with the spirit and competitive nature of a gamer...Classic drop-back passer...Good, not great, arm strength...Excellent accuracy and great timing...Still has some upside and developmental potential.

Weaknesses: Hasn't played against top competition on a regular basis...Sometimes shows too much faith in his arm and will force throws into tight coverage...Doesn't throw the long ball well...Average mobility in the pocket and isn't a threat to run...Will get flustered under pressure...Has a long release...Takes a lot of big hits.

Notes: Top local recruit who came to UCONN and really helped put them on the college football map...Has the physical tools to be a starter at the next level but is a work in progress and will need some time holding the clipboard before he is ready to play.

Muck
12-07-2004, 01:02 AM
No way Jason Campbell falls into the 4th round. The article was written 12/1. But after Saturday's SEC Championship game vs Tennessee, Campbell catapulted himself into upper Day 1. Once the Combine comes around, Campbell could easily be a 1st rounder. That guy has all the tools.

CrunchTime
12-07-2004, 01:16 AM
No way Jason Campbell falls into the 4th round. The article was written 12/1. But after Saturday's SEC Championship game vs Tennessee, Campbell catapulted himself into upper Day 1. Once the Combine comes around, Campbell could easily be a 1st rounder. That guy has all the tools.

He said he had to update it.At the time he wrote the column he thought we would be getting a 3rd pick for RW.Its not going to happen.:shakeno:

I was very impressed with Campbell.I would guess he may jump into the second round now.If he impresses at the combines he may go higher.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gifJason Campbell

Official Bio
College: Auburn Height: 6-5
Position: Quarterback Weight: 223
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.70

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Excellent size...Has a big league arm and can make all the throws...Top natural athletic ability...Can run and scramble a little...Still has a lot of upside and potential and may have turned the corner in 2004.

Weaknesses: Has been very inconsistent throughout his career...Doesn't read defenses well...Holds onto the ball too long and doesn't have a great feel for the pass rush...Makes poor decisions...Has to work on his technique and mechanics.

Notes: Highly touted recruit who finally began living up to his potential as a senior after a very up and down career...Good developmental prospect because he has all the physical tools in the world.

NaboCane
12-07-2004, 01:19 AM
Great thread, Crunch!

Coral Reefer
12-07-2004, 01:48 AM
If we trade surtain to clear cap room then
1a: Antrelle Rolle
1b: Rodrique Wright
3a: Smith or Orlovsky
3b:Wilkerson


I really don't get the reasoning with some of you guys that can actually justify somewhere in your head that if the Phins thought Surtain was expendable that they'd go right back and pick Antrelle Rolle to tie up millions of cap space on another CB. HELLO! That makes absolutely zero sense.

If the Phins make the decision to trade Surtain it will be because they think Poole will be able to hold down the other starting CB spot and they will be doing it to shore up another position of NEED. I.E. OL, QB, DL not CB. :shakeno:

idaho
12-07-2004, 02:33 AM
I go qb and rb in the first two picks if rodgers and brown and/or cadillac are available. AJ if he gets the mental side of this game eventually he needs a quality backup. If not we need these 2 skill positions desperately. Look at what a differance julius jones made for the cowboys. O lineman are risky developemental projects that take more time than we have. Carey will someday be a good lineman but right now he feels like a bust. We are 2-10 and have got nothing out of him this year. We can rebuild the o line through free agency if we are aggressive. We may also have a better line than we have seen because coaching has imo been for sh#t. These are my ramblings.

CrunchTime
12-07-2004, 06:41 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/01/pRodgers82103-1.jpgAaron Rodgers

Official Bio
College: California Height: 6-3
Position: Quarterback Weight: 220
Class: Junior 40-Yard: 4.7

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Picture perfect mechanics that are absolutely textbook...Amazing accuracy and can thread the needle...Very good arm strength and can make all the throws...Good touch and timing...Top intangibles and leadership qualities...Good work ethic and drive to be the best...Decent mobility and good speed and can throw on the run...Excellent pocket presence...Still has a lot of potential and upside.

Weaknesses: Has only average size...Needs to continue to add weight and get stronger...Had surgery on his knee before the 2004 season so durability might be a concern...Has only average athletic ability...Doesn't have a ton of experience and is still learning.

Notes: The latest prodigy from noted quarterback guru Jeff Tedford, following in the path of guys like Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller...Transferred to Cal from Butte Junior College where he was an All-American and was discovered by Tedford when the coach was recruiting tight end Garrett Cross...Burst onto the scene in 2003 and quickly established himself as one of the premier signal callers in college football...A premier pro prospect and potential franchise quarterback in the NFL.

Note.Some scouts say he is closer to 6'

Nicky Napoleon
12-07-2004, 11:07 AM
Crunch, what about Alex Smith? Throw his bio up there, hes someone I really like and think if he played somewhere other than Utah may be a front runner for the Heisman. 38 TD's 10 rushing 28 passing.

MiaMarino
12-07-2004, 04:00 PM
Assuming we trade down and get two No 1s a No 3,and a No 4 . Add to it the draft picks we already have which are a No 3,No4 No 5 and a No 7.

Didn't we give up a 4th to get Carey? :shakeno:

CrunchTime
12-07-2004, 05:22 PM
Crunch, what about Alex Smith? Throw his bio up there, hes someone I really like and think if he played somewhere other than Utah may be a front runner for the Heisman. 38 TD's 10 rushing 28 passing.
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/01/smith_a-1.jpg

College: Utah Height: 6-4
Position: Quarterback Weight: 212
Class: Junior 40-Yard: 4.75

SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Extremely smart player...Has good height...A leader and field general...Accurate passer with excellent timing...Good speed and very good mobility...Top intangibles and a winner...Very efficient with a tremendous TD/INT ratio.

Weaknesses: Has enough arm strength, but not a gun...Stats are inflated because he plays in such a wide open offensive scheme...Plays out of the shotgun a lot...Some are concerned he is just a system quarterback...Could stand to add some weight and bulk up.

Notes: Entered college as a junior academically because he took so many advanced placement courses in high school, earned a bachelors degree as a 20-year-old sophomore and was working on his masters as a junior...Michigan St. coach John L. Smith is his uncle...Played with USC running back Reggie Bush in high school...May be more likely to head to the pros if coach Urban Meyer moves on to another school.

CrunchTime
12-07-2004, 05:24 PM
Didn't we give up a 4th to get Carey? :shakeno:
We gave up a fourth in last years draft.

dolphingator
12-08-2004, 01:54 AM
Just a thought that no one seems to have brought up, if Dallas and/or KC really want Rolle:

DRAFT HIM AND NAME OUR PRICE IN A TRADE FOR 2 PROVEN PLAYERS