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View Full Version : Herald: Eddie Jones for Jalen Rose??



Fresh
12-11-2004, 01:40 PM
This is from today's Miami Herald

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/10391787.htm


Among the latest rumors to come out of Toronto is a Jalen Rose-for- Eddie Jones trade, with the idea that Rose might be a better fit at small forward, the position Jones is playing now that Damon Jones is in the starting lineup.

Eddie Jones and Jalen Rose both have 3-years left on their deals, except Rose makes about 1 mill more per year(not a big deal at all). In other words, no fillers are needed to complete the deal. Thoughts?

When Goofy(Malike Allen) comes back in a week or two:

1-Jones|Dooling
2-Wade|Person
3-Rose|Butler|Anderson
4-Haslem|Laettner|Allen
5-Shaq|Doleac

IMO, Rose fits here much better than Eddie, as Jalen is a true SF. He's a good scorer but can be lazy defensively, which is something SVG would fix in a second. If he understands his role as the third option, this would be great. With Wade & Shaq(yes, Wade & Shaq, not Shaq & Wade) consistently doing big things every night......Jalen Rose as a third option would be an improvement. We'd have a pretty good line-up with Damon Jones, the league's top 3-poot shooter, and Udonis Haslem as the 4th & 5th options. Basically, the biggest liability in the line-up would be Haslem's height. That's a big upgrade from Rasual Butler's streaky shooting, Rasual Butler's terrible perimeter defense, Eddie Jone's inconsistent offense, Eddie Jones mishandling of the ball, Shandon Anderson's inconsistent offense, and Wesley Person's streaky shooting and his ability not to play defense.

Why does Toronto do this deal? Easy, because they aren't going anywhere and Jalen wants out. Most people in Toronto consider him 75% of the teams problems(mostly in the locker room), and Rafer Alston 25%. Trust me, without hot heads like Vince, Marshall, & Skip in the locker room...he wouldn't cause any problems. We all know Rafer Alston has a huge temper and is quick to play the blame-game.

These rumors originally started earlier in the season coming out of Toronto.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-11-2004, 02:26 PM
Rose is much more of a player then Eddie Jones. Eddie Jones has become a spot up shooter like Allan Houston. If the Raptors make this deal their stupid. Rose is an underrated player who's attitude has overshadowed very solid play over the year!

tehMick
12-11-2004, 02:32 PM
X, you know how i feel about Eddie "1 good game out of 10" Jones.
I really like Jalen Rose.
And since being traded from Chicago hes learned to share the rock more.
I like it.
Damon Jones + Dwyane Wade + Jalen Rose + Udanis Haslem + Shaq = Ring
:yes:

Fresh
12-11-2004, 03:08 PM
If the Raptors make this deal their stupid.

Obviously, you haven't read any of the articles coming out of Toronto. Rose doesn't want to be there, and most of his teammates(probably Carter, Alston, Bosh, and any other top contributor) don't want him there either. Rose's trade value is pretty much the same as EJ's, just a bit more, and age and the length/salary doesn't help. Just go take a look at that contract.

The difference is in play. Rose is more consistent offensively and Jones is more consistent defensively. Offensively, Jones has his nights and can knock down the three. Defensively, Rose is pretty lazy and doesn't play close to his abilities. It's not that bad of a trade, and Rafer played in the same backcourt as EJ last year.

The fact that Rose wants out of Toronto and is causing problems up there drops his value. Rafer Alston said other than being benched, he can't "stand" a few players on the team, and one in particular. That player has to be either Vince Carter or Jalen Rose, and I'm leaning to Rose on that one. If they deal Jalen for a guy who Alston is familar with, who can still contribute...maybe Alston becomes less disgruntled. Alston seems fine to me, he's just a big cry baby. After "considering retirement", Skip had about 25 points & 8 assists last night.

Other than trading Rose for EJ, Toronto probably would have to settle for a combination of bad contracts of players who aren't even contributors.

Fresh
12-11-2004, 03:20 PM
How about we throw in Wang Zhi-Zhi and Toronto sends us Chris Bosh? :lol:

Bodzilla29
12-11-2004, 03:22 PM
Not a chance. Rose WILL be dealt with Vince. The Raptors are NOT interested in taking back bad contracts, they are salary dumping and planning for the future.

This has a possibility of about -1 out of 10 on the "do able" scale. Babcock is adament that Rose and Carter be packaged. Sorry X, your proposal flies in the face of everything Babcock is trying to do in the T.dot.

VJ1252
12-11-2004, 03:40 PM
I would love if eddie got traded. IMO even his D is a little overrated and he just isnt a good shooter. He can only score when the offense is built around him. I just dont see toronto trading one bad contract for another.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-11-2004, 03:43 PM
X-Con, no one wants to be in Toronto!

DolphinDevil28
12-11-2004, 06:31 PM
Wow, that would give the Heat a definite third legit scoring option.

Where I live, rumors are the Hornets are trying to get Carter and Rose for either Baron Davis or Big Cat Maglore and another player.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-12-2004, 02:11 AM
I think Vince for Baron is a fair trade since both are injury prone (Carter's knee and Davis back). I think Davis is a better player (just my opinion) but Carter will ensure more fanny's in the seats. That trade makes sense. Maglore is from Canada and since Rose and Carter want out of Toronto so bad, send them to the 1-17 Hornets!

Fresh
12-12-2004, 03:32 AM
Baron Davis is far better than Vince Carter. Far better. Vince & Baron want to win...and nobody's winning or contending in Nawlins or Toronto any time soon.

If you proposed VC for B.Diddy a few years ago, I would've told you that you were nuts for underestimating Vince's value. Now, it's the complete opposite.

Fresh
12-12-2004, 03:36 AM
Not a chance. Rose WILL be dealt with Vince. The Raptors are NOT interested in taking back bad contracts, they are salary dumping and planning for the future.

This has a possibility of about -1 out of 10 on the "do able" scale. Babcock is adament that Rose and Carter be packaged. Sorry X, your proposal flies in the face of everything Babcock is trying to do in the T.dot.

It's not my proposal, these are actual rumors coming out of Toronto(check the Miami Herald link).

Jalen beats EJ in every category except defense, and on a team that has Shaq and Wade you can cover up Rose's allergy to defense pretty easily.

This is a pretty fair deal. Talent-wise Miami wins, but losing Rose's attitude probably evens it out in the long run. Toronto needs a defender much more than it needs a guy who jacks up J's when not open. Rose jacks up some terrible shots, but he hits most of his open shots, which is all he'll be getting in Miami. 1-10 chance of this happening isn't exactly a proper estimate...I'd lean more to 4-10, which isn't bad for NBA rumors. Rose fits Miami and EJ fits Toronto.

If you look at Eddie Jones, he's a guy who did well under Miami's uptempo offense last year. With Wade, Alston, Caron, & Odom running the floor...EJ fit in perfect as the shooter. Now, he's being asked to run the floor a bit which is something he can not do. Rafer Alston plays pretty good defense, he handles the ball very well, and he shoots/scores well. Vince Carter is obviously a superstar turned jump shooter, who for some reason woke up one morning and decided he isn't gonna attack the basket anymore(funny enough, he was one of the best guys in the game at driving to the lane). Eddie Jones fits between both players well, as he can still play defense at a high level and can knock down the open triples(not nearly as well as last year).

VC & Rose packaged? I don't think so. Those two players' salaries combine equal how much, $30+ million? If you're packaging those two players, you will have to take back 1-3 bad contracts. Vince/Marshall is your more likely package. I don't think any team in the NBA would be dumb enough to add BOTH Carter & Rose to their teams, atleast not a team looking to contend. I never saw these two playing well together. Marshall has a lot of value because he's a big guy who can shoot the ball very well & is an excellent rebounder. His expiring contract also boosts his value.

Hell, I won't lie...I'd love to have Vince Carter. And at the expense of EJ, I'd love to have Jalen Rose. I just can't picture a team taking both players, especially with Rose coming off the books for 3-years and Carter coming off sometime beyond that.

Fresh
12-12-2004, 03:49 AM
Where I live, rumors are the Hornets are trying to get Carter and Rose for either Baron Davis or Big Cat Maglore and another player.

I wonder who would run the point for New Orleans...Darrell Armstrong? My god....and people say the players are ruining the NBA? It's the front offices.

Carter/Rose for Magloure is impossible. Even with fillers that deal would never fit salary-wise. Excluding Diddy & Mashburn(now would you really want Mashburn? He's probably not gonna play again and I think he has a few years left on his deal -- this is similar to Terrell Brandon), New Orleans would have to include their entire roster.

Also, I'm not sure how a Alston/Davis backcourt would fair. Toronto would have to throw Mo'Pete and/or Marshall in their line-up.

VJ1252
12-12-2004, 05:49 AM
I wonder who would run the point for New Orleans...Darrell Armstrong? My god....and people say the players are ruining the NBA? It's the front offices.

Carter/Rose for Magloure is impossible. Even with fillers that deal would never fit salary-wise. Excluding Diddy & Mashburn(now would you really want Mashburn? He's probably not gonna play again and I think he has a few years left on his deal -- this is similar to Terrell Brandon), New Orleans would have to include their entire roster.

Also, I'm not sure how a Alston/Davis backcourt would fair. Toronto would have to throw Mo'Pete and/or Marshall in their line-up.
Armstrong is on the Mavs now.

VJ1252
12-12-2004, 05:53 AM
It's not my proposal, these are actual rumors coming out of Toronto(check the Miami Herald link).

Jalen beats EJ in every category except defense, and on a team that has Shaq and Wade you can cover up Rose's allergy to defense pretty easily.

This is a pretty fair deal. Talent-wise Miami wins, but losing Rose's attitude probably evens it out in the long run. Toronto needs a defender much more than it needs a guy who jacks up J's when not open. Rose jacks up some terrible shots, but he hits most of his open shots, which is all he'll be getting in Miami. 1-10 chance of this happening isn't exactly a proper estimate...I'd lean more to 4-10, which isn't bad for NBA rumors. Rose fits Miami and EJ fits Toronto.

If you look at Eddie Jones, he's a guy who did well under Miami's uptempo offense last year. With Wade, Alston, Caron, & Odom running the floor...EJ fit in perfect as the shooter. Now, he's being asked to run the floor a bit which is something he can not do. Rafer Alston plays pretty good defense, he handles the ball very well, and he shoots/scores well. Vince Carter is obviously a superstar turned jump shooter, who for some reason woke up one morning and decided he isn't gonna attack the basket anymore(funny enough, he was one of the best guys in the game at driving to the lane). Eddie Jones fits between both players well, as he can still play defense at a high level and can knock down the open triples(not nearly as well as last year).

VC & Rose packaged? I don't think so. Those two players' salaries combine equal how much, $30+ million? If you're packaging those two players, you will have to take back 1-3 bad contracts. Vince/Marshall is your more likely package. I don't think any team in the NBA would be dumb enough to add BOTH Carter & Rose to their teams, atleast not a team looking to contend. I never saw these two playing well together. Marshall has a lot of value because he's a big guy who can shoot the ball very well & is an excellent rebounder. His expiring contract also boosts his value.

Hell, I won't lie...I'd love to have Vince Carter. And at the expense of EJ, I'd love to have Jalen Rose. I just can't picture a team taking both players, especially with Rose coming off the books for 3-years and Carter coming off sometime beyond that.
another thing I like about this trade other than the fact that we are getting rid of eddie jones who is absolutely horrible is that we can use rose as a point-forward every once in awhile since he likes having the ball in the hand and he can take some off the ballhandling responsibilities of Wade. I know damon jones can do that too but he is just a shooter and is pretty bad defensively.

Bodzilla29
12-12-2004, 09:04 AM
The reason Carter is still in Toronto is becaue Babcock WILL NOT TRADE HIM WITHOUT ROSE! I promise you that. This rumour started somewhere(Jones-Rose) but certainly NOT in Toronto. If you want Vince, you take Jalen with him.

The deal with Portland is interesting because we would be getting back Reef and another big contract that comes off the books after this season. That is the type of deal Babcock is looking for if he is unable to pry a 'Marbury' type player in return.

Also I didn't say there was a 1 in 10 chance I said there was a NEGATIVE 1 in 10 chance at this deal going down. Jones is VASTLY overpaid with almost ZERO production. His defending isn't near what it once was, certainly not good enough to overcompensate his lack of ability in ther areas. Rose is still productive. I have watched almost every game this year, and have seen a lot of Heat games as well. That deal would be so one sided in Miami's favour it isnt really funny. This deal will not happen. My proof? Just wait, I promise you it wont.

Babcock is NOT taking back bad(long term) conracts. Vince WILL be traded with Rose(unless we get back a true supertar player, which is unlikely).

Just wait and see...

Bling
12-12-2004, 10:53 PM
I'd hate to be EJ...always traded to ****tty teams (Heat went sour when EJ came in)...

Muck
12-12-2004, 11:23 PM
Jalen had 25 tonight vs the Heat.

Eddie Jones had 3 points and 7 assists.

VJ1252
12-13-2004, 01:30 AM
Jalen had 25 tonight vs the Heat.

Eddie Jones had 3 points and 7 assists.
thats vintage eddie jones

Fresh
12-13-2004, 06:38 PM
I read the article on Insider posted today, but I am too lazy to sum it up as good as this. Props to Lane1974 from RealGM's Heat forum:


FROM CHAD FORD:

can't cut and paste because it's on ESPN Insider, but to give a synopsis:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1945187&type=story

** The Heat have won four straight despite Shaq contining to have just a so-so season. Not only are his numbers down across the board (17.8 ppg, 8.2 rpg in his last five) but he ranks behind Wade, Christian Laettner, Udonis Haslem and Damon Jones on the team's plus/minus chart.

BUT

**Shaq's presence has opened things up tremendously for everyone else. Wade and Damon Jones have been the biggest recipients. Jones is shooting an impressive 46 percent from 3 and ranks first in the league in 3-pointers made. Wade doesn't really shoot 3s, but he's shooting 52 percent from the field this year – up from 46 percent last season. That improved field-goal percentage is primarily coming from jumpers.


**However, one guy hasn't seen the same halo effect that Jones and Wade have. Eddie Jones has been awful. He's shooting just 30 percent from 3, down from 37 percent last year and 41 percent in 2002-03. Overall he's shooting just 34 percent from the field and seems out of synch.

That's why the Heat have been flirting with the idea of trading Jones to the Raptors for Jalen Rose.

Rose isn't much of a cure-all (he's shooting just 33 percent from 3 and 40 percent from the field) but the Heat believe he may be a better fit in the team's new offense. Rose is two years younger than Jones, is a better passer and can still take over a game in ways that Jones no longer can.

With that said, head coach Stan Van Gundy has concerns. Jones is a better defender and a better teammate. Everywhere Rose has gone, his popularity has quickly wilted.

**Trading Rose to the Heat also would greatly open up the Raptors' options in trading Vince Carter. With Rose out of the picture, Toronto will have more suitors for Carter. Several teams that are interested in Vince have backed out because of an insistence that Rose be included in the deal. The Raptors could use the Heat as part of a three-way trade sending Rose to Miami and moving Jones and Carter off a separate teams. This would be an acceptable solution to a team like Portland, which has balked at accepting Rose's contract.

Fresh
12-13-2004, 06:43 PM
Bodzilla, I understand what you are trying to say. It's no secret Toronto is trying to package the two. However, outside of the rumor, this is interesting:


Trading Rose to the Heat also would greatly open up the Raptors' options in trading Vince Carter. With Rose out of the picture, Toronto will have more suitors for Carter. Several teams that are interested in Vince have backed out because of an insistence that Rose be included in the deal. The Raptors could use the Heat as part of a three-way trade sending Rose to Miami and moving Jones and Carter off a separate teams. This would be an acceptable solution to a team like Portland, which has balked at accepting Rose's contract.

TerryTate
12-13-2004, 08:34 PM
Heres my beef with htis trade...both players have similiar point production right now, and Jones is the better defender of the two, if both are going to contribute the same, id rather keep Eddie....

But then we got Shaq, which will probably make Rose look better than he really is, but that was supposed to happen to Jones, so who knows what will happen.

Fresh
12-18-2004, 03:04 PM
Vince WILL be traded with Rose(unless we get back a true supertar player, which is unlikely).

Just wait and see...

Well, Zo isn't exactly a super star anymore..and I don't know if I'd take Aaron Williams over Christian Laettner! Erick Williams? Decent scorer and a good defender, but he's more of a 6th-7th man.

Bodzilla29
12-20-2004, 01:42 PM
that deal almost made me crash my car when i heard it man. Youngest player at 32?

When I heard NJ I instantly htought Kidd, but no. Then I was hoping Krstic would be in there as a key piece to the deal, a nice player with good potential. No. Then, well PLaninic is about the only other young guy with potential there so he wouldn't be bad as a 'throw in' but no.

When I heard Zo I said to my friend, "I bet you a million dollars he never plays a minute in purple.." looks like I was right. But buying him out? Come on, wtf is that? Garbage is what it is. Aaron Williams WISHES he was average, that is how bad he is. Eric Williams is a great player, role player that is. I love his game really love it. But is he the kind of guy you trade Vince for? NO.

To top it all off, we get crap in return and still have Jalen Rose and his monstrosity of a contract on board. Babcock went down in my opinion in this deal. He NEEDED to get a good young player in this deal and failed to do so, acquiring a bunch of 30 somethings that will NEVER be more then what they are right now.

Also, draft picks? Philly's pick is top 8 protected this year. Nuggets is top 3, I think, but it doesn't matter because the Nugs are gonna be a long way off from the #3 overall pick.

I have been pissed off all weekend. Hard supporting a crap franchise, let me tell you! hahaha