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View Full Version : Saban Got Tremendous Value on Roth



Boomer
04-23-2005, 09:08 PM
This was a great, great pick. A 22-32 1st rounder on a lot of boards, he is a great pick-up - remember, he had 2 years at LB at Iowa, can play LB or end, and is a high charcter, 110% guy, real quick, tough and ultra aggressive. Like Pollack, he;s our Mike Vrabel.

Great selection. 2 great picks.

phunwin
04-23-2005, 09:09 PM
I LOVE this pick!

web1300
04-23-2005, 09:10 PM
totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!! I am very happy to finally have the draft in Nicks capable hands!!! :)

merlin00069
04-23-2005, 09:10 PM
I would concur.

Boomer
04-23-2005, 09:10 PM
All over the net - ESPN, CNN saying what a GREAT job we have don with our 2 picks. Don Banks and Peter King say that Brown is a SUPERB pick.

miamikid92
04-23-2005, 09:11 PM
:woot:

SMadison29
04-23-2005, 09:11 PM
There's great value left with Elton Brown, Channing Crowder, Chris Canty, Daryl Blackstock, Andrew Walter, & Justin Tuck.

Clark Kent
04-23-2005, 09:11 PM
This was a great, great pick. A 22-32 1st rounder on a lot of boards, he is a great pick-up - remember, he had 2 years at LB at Iowa, can play LB or end, and is a high charcter, 110% guy, real quick, tough and ultra aggressive. Like Pollack, he;s our Mike Vrabel.

Great selection. 2 great picks.

Exactly what I've been saying... Although he reminds me of Teddy Brushci. I love this pick, and I like the type of player Roth is. A high intensity machine.

ckparrothead
04-23-2005, 09:12 PM
Yeah but the only thing about Roth is he gained about 10 or 15 pounds after the Senior Bowl, in an effort to not be considered a standup OLB in a 3-4 defense.

Noodle Arm
04-23-2005, 09:12 PM
Wow Boomer, have you slept at all? Isn't it like 5 in the morning over there? Oh and yes I agree with you. :D Some people who are complaining don't realize that this is for the future, not the present. He's doing what he said he would...he's building for the future. But I have a feeling Roth will be starting sooner than later.

Roman529
04-23-2005, 09:13 PM
All over the net - ESPN, CNN saying what a GREAT job we have don with our 2 picks. Don Banks and Peter King say that Brown is a SUPERB pick.

They love us...they really love us!!!! :D

finsnchips
04-23-2005, 09:13 PM
it is 2.15 am over here... :D

Boomer
04-23-2005, 09:14 PM
2.20....most people don't know about him playimg LB.......Nick will have him at DE AND OLB to maximise his skill. Great pick. God what a great start with 2 high personality, solid football playing kids who love the game. Remember Roth spent all Senior Bowl week in his Dolphins t-shirt

MrClean
04-23-2005, 09:14 PM
How about the 3rd round? Do we take a chance on Antajj Hawthorne here? We need a talented young pure DT who can play the nose in odd man fronts.

Anthony3454
04-23-2005, 09:15 PM
Saban is doing outstanding. I love it.

Boomer
04-23-2005, 09:15 PM
Marvin.....just what I think.

Dredd1050
04-23-2005, 09:16 PM
Great pick. I loved this kid in college.

TouchMyMarino
04-23-2005, 09:18 PM
Remember Roth spent all Senior Bowl week in his Dolphins t-shirt

This shouldn't matter, and yet it does. Awesome. Now what's next!

FIN-IN-RI
04-23-2005, 09:18 PM
Great stuff guys

ckparrothead
04-23-2005, 09:19 PM
Wow did he really wear a Dolphins t-shirt all week at the Senior Bowl? THATS AWESOME!!

dolfan22
04-23-2005, 09:21 PM
Hawthorne at 4 if we deem him draftable..... Mcpherson or Walter here would be tremendous , but Blackstock or Greene or Eric Green cb or Channing Crowder if we feel his knees et all are ok .... and there still is Elton Brown who COULD be the best guard in this draft ..... last real chance to trade down too.... tick tick tick .........

Noodle Arm
04-23-2005, 09:21 PM
it is 2.15 am over here... :D

Crap..I was WAYYYY off. :lol:

I can't wait until Roth sacks Brady and recovers the fumble. :cooldude:

BizarroAndres
04-23-2005, 09:22 PM
I can't wait until Roth sacks Brady and recovers the fumble. :cooldude:
Sounds good to me! :D

ckparrothead
04-23-2005, 09:23 PM
What about Browner? Tall, long arms, I think Saban likes that in CBs.

I think possible we go after Greene because of the run on QBs Frye and Walter, might not think Greene will slip to round 4.

dolfan_1999
04-23-2005, 09:24 PM
Can you imagine how good Roth can get learning from Junior and Zach. :D

HolliFinFan
04-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Great selection. 2 great picks.[/QUOTE]

I hope you're correct! I have read up, and I have to agree. I am quite excited about the picks thus far, and I know that I usually am, for what that's worth.
Thanks for all the background on the players, Boomer.
~~Holli

Spegg
02-27-2008, 12:36 PM
This was a great, great pick. A 22-32 1st rounder on a lot of boards, he is a great pick-up - remember, he had 2 years at LB at Iowa, can play LB or end, and is a high charcter, 110% guy, real quick, tough and ultra aggressive. Like Pollack, he;s our Mike Vrabel.

Great selection. 2 great picks.


Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

SabanHater
02-27-2008, 12:41 PM
wow..... this was when people were actually talking nice about Saban.

Motion
02-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

I've been as critical as anyone of Roth. I never saw much in him, especially to be considered a 1st rounder by some, thats ridiculous. However, the comparisons with Chris Long are even more ridiculous they are both white, have similar size, and thats where the comparisons end. Anyone thats seen them both play a few times can clearly see a major difference.

dolpns13
02-27-2008, 12:52 PM
I am very disappointed in Roth as of this past season.

I think it is safe to say that the Saban drafts were just as bad as the Wanny drafts, for the 2 years Nicky was around. Lets hope Cams drafts are halfway better than Sabans..

FinfanInBuffalo
02-27-2008, 12:53 PM
Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

Nobody ranked Matt Roth in the top 5 of the draft. A knock on Roth was arm length. I haven't seen that raised for Long.

Clones? No.

Spray Mucus
02-27-2008, 01:08 PM
Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

Matt Roth was never considered a top 3 pick.

Before you start Chanting for Jake Long (6'7" 315lb 5.08 40yrd), just know that he had very comparable numbers to Robert Gallery (6'7" 323lb 4.95 40yrd) who was considered a top 3 pick.

Breed
02-27-2008, 01:13 PM
I've been as critical as anyone of Roth. I never saw much in him, especially to be considered a 1st rounder by some, thats ridiculous. However, the comparisons with Chris Long are even more ridiculous they are both white, have similar size, and thats where the comparisons end. Anyone thats seen them both play a few times can clearly see a major difference.

Yeah, outside of Long being quicker and faster, with better change of direction skills and longer arms, I'd say they're exactly the same.

I'm with you on Roth, I never saw what all the hype was about. Long is a MUCH better prospect than what Roth ever was.

BlueFin
02-27-2008, 01:35 PM
Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

Didn't we just have a a long thread about with the same ridiculous premise you are using?

There is at least a 30 pick difference between where Matt Roth and Chris Long are/were projected to go, everyone knew going in that Matt Roth had short arms, was not the athlete Chris Long is, that he only had a bull rush and would need to develop better passing rushing skills.

These are not comparable players, other than being absolutely different they are clones huh? Oh wait, isn't Matt Roths dad the original lead singer for Van Halen? So they both have famous dads (just kidding).

I will now start a thread talking about how Jake Long is a clone of Robert Gallery and Tony Mandarich, pretty ridiculous huh?

Thanks for playing, don't forget to select a nice parting gift on your way out, bye bye now.

unluckyluciano
02-27-2008, 01:48 PM
Matt Roth was never considered a top 3 pick.

Before you start Chanting for Jake Long (6'7" 315lb 5.08 40yrd), just know that he had very comparable numbers to Robert Gallery (6'7" 323lb 4.95 40yrd) who was considered a top 3 pick.
I believe all players would be comparable to a bust somewhere along the lines. I want dorsey, but matt roth vs chris long, long wins hands down.

fishypete
02-27-2008, 01:55 PM
Not sticking up for Roth...but if he's so bad...why is he still on the roster? Why didn't Parcells cut him? He must have some value to Parcells...for him to still be here...does Parcells believe that Roth can play Linebacker?

emocomputerjock
02-27-2008, 02:00 PM
Just was looking at some old posts regarding Roth. Everyone said the same thing about him that they are saying about Chris Long. Lets not make the same mistake twice. We need to go with the LT Jake Long. Chris long is more athletic and has a famous dad. Other than that, he is Mott Roth's clone.

Woah, I missed where Matt Roth was the best player in the draft. Show me where that was again?

...

I'll get a Snickers, I have a feeling I'll be here a while.

fishypete
02-27-2008, 02:01 PM
Matt Roth was never considered a top 3 pick.

Before you start Chanting for Jake Long (6'7" 315lb 5.08 40yrd), just know that he had very comparable numbers to Robert Gallery (6'7" 323lb 4.95 40yrd) who was considered a top 3 pick.

Seems to me that J. Thomas had similar numbers too...and going back a few years...R. Webb at 300 lbs...ran a 4.95...the only difference was Webb was a finese blocker...and couldn't run block worth a hoot.

Coral Reefer
02-27-2008, 02:03 PM
Didn't we just have a a long thread about with the same ridiculous premise you are using?

There is at least a 30 pick difference between where Matt Roth and Chris Long are/were projected to go, everyone knew going in that Matt Roth had short arms, was not the athlete Chris Long is, that he only had a bull rush and would need to develop better passing rushing skills.

These are not comparable players, other than being absolutely different they are clones huh? Oh wait, isn't Matt Roths dad the original lead singer for Van Halen? So they both have famous dads (just kidding).

I will now start a thread talking about how Jake Long is a clone of Robert Gallery and Tony Mandarich, pretty ridiculous huh?

Thanks for playing, don't forget to select a nice parting gift on your way out, bye bye now.

:hi5:

This is spot on.

I know the thanks button was enacted to cut down on double posts being made BUT this response is well deserving of being highlighted.

Obviously we see unfounded arguments every year against prospects but this Roth/Long deal is one of the worst I've ever seen.

Spray Mucus
02-27-2008, 02:08 PM
I believe all players would be comparable to a bust somewhere along the lines. I want dorsey, but matt roth vs chris long, long wins hands down.

And you can compare any player to a stud. which is exactly the point of this beeing a bad thread.

unluckyluciano
02-27-2008, 02:24 PM
And you can compare any player to a stud. which is exactly the point of this beeing a bad thread.
Which is what I was getting at as well.

Spegg
02-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Didn't we just have a a long thread about with the same ridiculous premise you are using?

There is at least a 30 pick difference between where Matt Roth and Chris Long are/were projected to go, everyone knew going in that Matt Roth had short arms, was not the athlete Chris Long is, that he only had a bull rush and would need to develop better passing rushing skills.

These are not comparable players, other than being absolutely different they are clones huh? Oh wait, isn't Matt Roths dad the original lead singer for Van Halen? So they both have famous dads (just kidding).

I will now start a thread talking about how Jake Long is a clone of Robert Gallery and Tony Mandarich, pretty ridiculous huh?

Thanks for playing, don't forget to select a nice parting gift on your way out, bye bye now.


Maybe you had a thread about it, but I didn't.

Look at all the posts about Roth here. Everyone loved him. But he is not a good player. He has not done anything. Every other player that has played opposite JT has had at the least a good season (Armstrong, Aguenlye, Carter). But you know what, we never did a damn thing when we had them either.

You can make the argument for Jake Long all you want. Or maybe he is the next Orlando Pace, or Walter Jones.

Either way, I don't see you sitting up there with Kiper or Mayock or anyone else. You have no expertise to speak of. So for your parting gift I give you a big :smackdown:

South Florida
02-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Matt Roth was rated as a late first rounder in his draft year.

I imagine following the Super Bowl, with the emphasis that will undoubtedly be put on pass rushers, if Matt Roth were in this draft he'd be rated in the top 15, easily.

Conversely, Chris Long wouldn't be rated the top player in Roth's draft.

Long was considering leaving early last year, but he wasn't even going to go in the first round so he chose to stay.

Lucky for him, the Giants D-Line won the Super Bowl.

Rich22
02-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Didn't we just have a a long thread about with the same ridiculous premise you are using?

There is at least a 30 pick difference between where Matt Roth and Chris Long are/were projected to go, everyone knew going in that Matt Roth had short arms, was not the athlete Chris Long is, that he only had a bull rush and would need to develop better passing rushing skills.

These are not comparable players, other than being absolutely different they are clones huh? Oh wait, isn't Matt Roths dad the original lead singer for Van Halen? So they both have famous dads (just kidding).

I will now start a thread talking about how Jake Long is a clone of Robert Gallery and Tony Mandarich, pretty ridiculous huh?

Thanks for playing, don't forget to select a nice parting gift on your way out, bye bye now.

Are you Coral Reefer in disguise? Do you have to attack someone just because they have a different viewpoint than you. Alot of people happen to agree with this view. You don't - big deal - two different opinions - why the attack?

I haven't seen anyone say Chris Long isn't a very good player or won't be a great pro. What people like myself have a problem with is his going #1 overall. We want Miami to get an IMPACT player and some of us don't feel Long is enough of one for the money the #1 pick will make. That's an opinion!

60611
02-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Long was considering leaving early last year, but he wasn't even going to go in the first round so he chose to stay.


Like most of what you write, this is simply untrue.

Coral Reefer
02-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Are you Coral Reefer in disguise? Do you have to attack someone just because they have a different viewpoint than you. Alot of people happen to agree with this view. You don't - big deal - two different opinions - why the attack?

I haven't seen anyone say Chris Long isn't a very good player or won't be a great pro. What people like myself have a problem with is his going #1 overall. We want Miami to get an IMPACT player and some of us don't feel Long is enough of one for the money the #1 pick will make. That's an opinion!

Bring something of substance to the table in your presentation and you won't have to get all upset about people pointing out how shallow and unfounded your view is.

Secondly, you have all the right in the world to feel that Long isn't the player Miami should take. Just don't openly present absurd reasoning as "he's a Roth Clone because he's the same height and weight". People are attacking it because it is a ridiculous angle.

I think Blue summed it up quite well and in simple terms when he said he'd offer Jake Long isn't worth the top pick because he's a clone of Robert Gallery and Tony Mandarich.

That argument would be just as shallow and baseless as the Roth Long comparisons.

South Florida
02-27-2008, 04:00 PM
Like most of what you write, this is simply untrue.

Genius, I think you can watch Chris Long's interview on www.nfl.com. I believe in that interview he's asked in light of his considering coming out last year but deciding not to after receiving a 2nd round grade how he is now being considered the top overall pick.

He said that your job is to improve year after year and if he watched game film of his from last year, he'd be disgusted with his play.

Simply untrue, huh?

I will come back here to check for how you respond to this, Genius.

Two Tacos
02-27-2008, 04:25 PM
This Roth vs Long thing is silly. I don't want to dig up the links, (they're in other threads) but some one posted their combine drill results. Roth was more than 6 tenths slower in the 3 cone and more than 2 tenths slower in the shuttle. He is no where near the athelete that Long is. He did not play anywhere near the level that Long did in college either.

Roth is not a horrible player, he had an poor season last year, but so did the defence as a whole. He showed flashes the year before last and I hope he continues to develope. But entering him into the debate about Long makes it hard for me to bother to listen to your other arguments. There are arguements for a pick other than C. Long, I don't agree, but there are arguements. This Roth thing is retarded.

209Mason
02-27-2008, 06:03 PM
This Roth vs Long thing is silly. I don't want to dig up the links, (they're in other threads) but some one posted their combine drill results. Roth was more than6 tenths slower in the 3 cone and more than 2 tenths slower in the shuttle. He is no where near the athelete that Long is. He did not play anywhere near the level that Long did in college either.

Roth is not a horrible player, he had an poor season last year, but so did the defence as a whole. He showed flashes the year before last and I hope he continues to develope. But entering him into the debate about Long makes it hard for me to bother to listen to your other arguments. There are arguements for a pick other than C. Long, I don't agree, but there are arguements. This Roth thing is retarded.

Thank you!

I agree Long is a better prospect than Roth, and that you can't really compare them... But don't discount Roth's body of work in college like a couple posts on here have. I have to think that part of the reason Saban jumped all over him is that he remembered the Capital One bowl all to well... in which Roth was in the backfield as much as the LSU runningbacks were.

Yes Long is a freak and I hope we get him... but how about we let Roth have a full season at full health before we throw him under the bus. Like someone else said above.... we were 1-15 this year... the defense as a whole was weak. He's shown improvement every year despite being inured part of this past season.

60611
02-27-2008, 09:40 PM
Genius, I think you can watch Chris Long's interview on www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com). I believe in that interview he's asked in light of his considering coming out last year but deciding not to after receiving a 2nd round grade how he is now being considered the top overall pick.

He said that your job is to improve year after year and if he watched game film of his from last year, he'd be disgusted with his play.

Simply untrue, huh?

I will come back here to check for how you respond to this, Genius.

Correct, he never considered coming out last year. And he likely would've been a late first round pick. Feel free to continue acting like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't. Feel free to assume things based on questions a reporter asks a player, rather than what the player himself says. That kind of thinking is not going to get you very far in your chosen profession.

South Florida
02-27-2008, 10:36 PM
That kind of thinking is not going to get you very far in your chosen profession.

All right...all right.

I will refrain from spitting hearsay and opinion on these boards.

I set way too high a standard when I disclosed my career trajectory.

I still don't want Long. I don't know who we should take, maybe Jake, and I will not yet call Roth a bust.

I just wanted to point out that I'm very skeptical of Chris Long being the first overall pick. I'm sure he's a better athlete than Roth.

Is he a better athlete than Vernon Gholston?

60611
02-28-2008, 12:17 AM
All right...all right.


Is he a better athlete than Vernon Gholston?

Frankly, who cares. Both are superior athletes, whose athleticism is sufficient to make them the top players in the NFL at their position if they possess the requisite football ability and drive.

jdang307
02-28-2008, 02:13 AM
I don't agree that Long is a clone of Roth, and I don't agree Roth is a total bust yet. Our whole D-line sucked last year. Sucked. Lets see what happens when some tough coaches get in here with them.

But anyway, I know you guys are saying that the argumetn could be reversed by saying Jake Long is a clone of Gallery, but I don't think so. Gallery has a 31" arm length! Jake's are much longer (no pun intended).

South Florida
02-28-2008, 06:44 PM
I don't agree that Long is a clone of Roth, and I don't agree Roth is a total bust yet. Our whole D-line sucked last year. Sucked. Lets see what happens when some tough coaches get in here with them.

But anyway, I know you guys are saying that the argumetn could be reversed by saying Jake Long is a clone of Gallery, but I don't think so. Gallery has a 31" arm length! Jake's are much longer (no pun intended).

Also, and I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, Gallery's hair is way longer than Jake's.

MustangFinFan
02-28-2008, 08:40 PM
Roth is in no way, a bust.

the guy has potential written all over him. last year our "D" sucked completely. if we add a top DT, LB, DB to our defense...Roth is gonna be great. frankly, im content with Roth/Wright and Taylor as our DE's, if we add a top DT, our DL should be great.

kingfin23
02-28-2008, 08:45 PM
I not big on Roth

padre31
02-28-2008, 09:12 PM
I don't agree that Long is a clone of Roth, and I don't agree Roth is a total bust yet. Our whole D-line sucked last year. Sucked. Lets see what happens when some tough coaches get in here with them.


Spot on, Roth has not busted out as of yet, he was injured all year and he was productive as a part time player previously, so unlike Daniels and Hagan, Matt Roth is not even at _ _ st as of yet.



But anyway, I know you guys are saying that the argument could be reversed by saying Jake Long is a clone of Gallery, but I don't think so. Gallery has a 31" arm length! Jake's are much longer (no pun intended).

For some reason, my impression of Gallery is that he was soft, IMO the same cannot be said of Jake Long who is a drive blocking machine.

That said Jake Long is the wimpy pick, safe, easily signable, can play T for 10 yrs, but the #1 overall should do more then play like a good early second round pick, is it too much to ask that the #1 overall actually be..."Great"?

And also IMO, Spegg's premise is a great one "Don't believe the hype about Chris Long, look at what was said about Matt Roth". By call back to mind what was said about Roth, we do have a window about Chris Long and a consensus building around his selection at #1 overall.

Because like it or not, Matt Roth and Chris Long are not worlds apart on the majority of physical characteristics, both may have too much 'Tweener in them.