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View Full Version : Time to speak fact on Wanny! Proof of incompetence!



Lee2000
05-05-2005, 07:29 PM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000

phinian
05-05-2005, 07:31 PM
dude,- if you dont know the problems with wannstedt, im not going to take the time to tell you.

saves
05-05-2005, 07:32 PM
How bout the Bears had progressively worse records under him and so did we?

Nublar7
05-05-2005, 07:32 PM
Wanny is gone. Lets forget the horrible past and look to the bright future of the Saban era.

miami_mi
05-05-2005, 07:36 PM
hmmm...I hear he's a good christian man. Keep the faith Dave!

DonShula84
05-05-2005, 07:38 PM
Look at how talented our team was and how mediocre we were, proof enough. I dont really get the point of this thread, you want proof Wanny sucked? Open your eyes and it is easy to see

go_fins
05-05-2005, 07:38 PM
A picture speaks a thousand words.... :smackhead
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/11/p1_wann-1.jpg

painnotpleasure
05-05-2005, 07:39 PM
A picture speaks a thousand words.... :smackhead
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2010/11/p1_wann-1.jpghttp://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif You can say that again.

LtDan
05-05-2005, 07:40 PM
WANNY= GONE

NICK=HERE

Move on already people!! Jesus!

Nublar7
05-05-2005, 07:45 PM
2005

Little League Dave:

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/05/20050320jbPittWannstedt_450-1.jpg

Big League Nick:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Lets move on.

FinzManiac
05-05-2005, 07:47 PM
Can we stop with the "name that should not be spoke" threads...

He just wasn't meant to be an NFL head coach...

burghPhinFan
05-05-2005, 07:55 PM
Wanny is gone. Lets forget the horrible past and look to the bright future of the Saban era.
then maybe it's time for a new avatar? :wink:

fishbanger
05-05-2005, 07:55 PM
He drafted JAMAR Fletcher and passed on Drew Brees who was available with the pick. Drew Brees is a pro bowl player.

His team did not make the playoffs with the leading rusher in the NFL.

His teams lost in DEcember when it counted most.

He drafted Eddie Moore in second round (reach) and passed on A. Boldin who was Spielmans choice. A. Boldin made pro bowl his rookie year.

He played OT in the NFL so you would think our OL would not be one of the worst in the NFL.

The cap was lopsided towards the defense.

YOU WANT ANSWERS!

Nublar7
05-05-2005, 07:57 PM
then maybe it's time for a new avatar? :wink:
NEVER! :wink:

I don't think I could get the nerve up to change it. It has become my identity. :lol:

DonShula84
05-05-2005, 07:58 PM
YOU WANT ANSWERS!

I WANT THE TRUTH!

Nublar7
05-05-2005, 07:59 PM
I WANT THE TRUTH!
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! :lol:

DonShula84
05-05-2005, 08:00 PM
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! :lol:

:lol: Glad some one finished it :D

unifiedtheory
05-05-2005, 08:03 PM
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! :lol:

:roflmao:..AWWWWWWW I wanted to say it....:tongue:

FinzManiac
05-05-2005, 08:04 PM
:roflmao:..AWWWWWWW I wanted to say it....:tongue:

:roflmao:

Me too... :(

Awsi Dooger
05-05-2005, 08:10 PM
From 2000 to 2003 he equalled or surpassed the preseason over/under on season wins EVERY year, one of only two teams in the league that managed that feat over that time frame. It's incredibly rare to match or overcome the season win total four straight years, especially for a team with a high number.

Oh sorry, you wanted subjective fluff based on the feeble notion we were somehow a Super Bowl caliber team during Wannstedt's tenure. Not merely an overachieving team that was destined to collapse due to lousy personnel evaluation. Wanny certainly played a significant role in that, along with Speilman who far exceeded Wanny's incompetence once he gained solo control last year.

burger13
05-05-2005, 08:16 PM
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! :lol:

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have
to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?
You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than
you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you
curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the
luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death,
while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while
grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you
don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You
me there.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words
as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You
use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself
to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very
freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I
provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on
your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and
stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you
think you're entitled to. :fire:

finsRback
05-05-2005, 08:47 PM
Nice Guy, Horrible eye for talent, terrible strategist and gameday coach, awful ego-poisoned delegator of authority, poor motivator of players, that about sums it up......poor pitt panthers

GCD960
05-05-2005, 09:21 PM
Here:

http://www.profantasysports.com/images/CCH_DWannstedt.gif

stan marino
05-05-2005, 09:26 PM
Getting rid of Gardner was a good move................It was probably Zach and JT's idea though...lol

FinsOnTop
05-05-2005, 09:27 PM
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have
to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?
You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than
you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you
curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the
luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death,
while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while
grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you
don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You
me there.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words
as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You
use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself
to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very
freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I
provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on
your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and
stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you
think you're entitled to. :fire:

Aww man, what about the part where he goes "I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 cubans that are trained to kill me". Huh, where is that?

merlin00069
05-05-2005, 09:28 PM
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have
to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?
You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than
you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you
curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the
luxury of not knowing what I know: That Santiago's death,
while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while
grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you
don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You
me there.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words
as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You
use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself
to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very
freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I
provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on
your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and
stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you
think you're entitled to. :fire:

Did you order the code red?...(Caffey)
DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED??( Caffey)
YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID!!! (Jesop)
Hehe....great movie...one of the best ive ever seen.. Had to keep it going. :D

rainmaker1313
05-05-2005, 09:34 PM
Simply put, Wannstedt is too nice to be an NFL Coach. That doesnt take anything away from him as a person. JJ set it up so Wanny would step in. Wanny did what he could, I personally liked him as a person, as a coach I didnt care for many choices he made. But like everyone says, we moved on and replaced him, so let it be! Rock on Saban!

burger13
05-05-2005, 10:04 PM
Aww man, what about the part where he goes "I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 cubans that are trained to kill me". Huh, where is that?

You want to investigate me, roll the dice and take
your chances. I eat breakfast 80 yards away from 4000
Cubans who are trained to kill me. So don't for one second
think you're gonna come down here, flash a badge, and
make me nervous.

Cannonboy
05-05-2005, 10:20 PM
I would tell you all the stupid things he did or say, but unfortunaly I have to go to bed in 2 hours and it would take a heck of a lot longer then 2 hours to give you my list.

Mike13
05-05-2005, 10:23 PM
I WANT THE TRUTH!

YOU WANT THE TRUTH !!!
YOU WANT THE TRUTH ???
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE MOTHER ****ING TRUTH!
ENOUGH WITH THE THREADS ABOUT MR. HAIRLIP ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_dan24
05-05-2005, 10:26 PM
Wanny is gone. Lets forget the horrible past and look to the bright future of the Saban era.

Amen sir...

Mike13
05-05-2005, 10:28 PM
How bout the Bears had progressively worse records under him and so did we?

Once the Bears got rid of him they actually had a winning season.

Ark139954
05-05-2005, 10:40 PM
i know what u mean by saying that he wasnt that bad or w/e ur saying but he really was. do u remember all of the games where we would just run and run and do the same thing over and over...play the same defense and play so conservative. Just imagine if we didnt have such a talented team. we would have gone 0-16. He was the most conservative and from my perspective "annoying" coach i have ever watched b/c i knew what play they were going to run. (exagerated) He wasnt meant to be head coach.

unifiedtheory
05-05-2005, 10:43 PM
Proof of incompetence...

I'll just say a few things about the season that pisses me off the most and will ALWAYS piss me off the most...2002

In 2002 the Miami Dolphins were...

12th in points scored: Not great but above average.
4th in points allowed: When you give up the 4th fewest points in football you are a playoff team.
2nd in rushing yards: Ricky was sick in 2002
4th in Yards per carry: 4th...even though every team in the league knew Ricky was coming.
11th against the pass
5th against the run
5th in interceptions
3rd in total defense
Had 6 players named to the Pro Bowl
Had the NFL's rushing champion.

In 2002 we also:

Got our collective @sses kicked in Kansas city because of Wannstedt's inability to change the pace of the game and scheme at halftime. The whole damn world saw that Gonzo was toying on Arturo Freeman that day. Yet Wanny let Gonzo kill us. We were not getting pressure on Green...yet Wanny did not change the sceme and blitz, instead he let Green stand back and pick us to shreds.

Lost at home to the Bills. Even though we dominated the game, Ray Lucas continued to turn the ball over. Instead of changing the scheme he let Lucas CONTINUE to throw the ball.

Lost to the Bills in Buffalo...even though Ricky had 200 yards rushing. HOW THE HELL DO YOU HAVE A RUNNER GO FOR 200 ON THE ROAD AND LOSE? Oh yah...we had Wanny as our coach.

We are going to Minny, playing a horrible football team, with a chance to lock up the East and start thinking about home playoff games. What does the genius do? sets up lobster traps in the locker room reminding the players that it is a "trap" game. How about just letting them go out and kick the crap out of the Vikings like they should have? No...not the Wanny way...always remind the team about the things that could go wrong.

Then...with a chance to STILL win the East and get a home playoff game...the "Meltdown in Foxborough" happens.

We went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. Dave Wannstedt is the reason.

unifiedtheory
05-05-2005, 10:44 PM
One more thing I forgot to add...

What he did to this franchise is indefensable.:fire:

marinotoclayton
05-06-2005, 12:10 AM
One of the things I remember was how clueless he was when Mcmike Went after O line for not blocking. that should have been Wanny's job to do. But like the clueless character he is he just sits by looking stupid. Just like he was on draft day every year.

LostInPatsLand
05-06-2005, 12:49 AM
dude,- if you dont know the problems with wannstedt, im not going to take the time to tell you.
Yeah, it's like what Louis Armstrong said when someone asked him to define what jazz is: "If you have to ask, you'll never know..."

Predaphin
05-06-2005, 12:50 AM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000

We sucked. Nuff said. :mad:

LostInPatsLand
05-06-2005, 12:51 AM
2005

Little League Dave:

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/05/20050320jbPittWannstedt_450-1.jpg

Big League Nick:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Lets move on.

Hey, Dave's looking good these days, teaching football to young men. Maybe he's just a better college coach.

yankeehillbilly
05-06-2005, 06:52 AM
Hey, Dave's looking good these days, teaching football to young men. Maybe he's just a better college coach.

Maybe. Or maybe he is ruining the careers of dozens of potential NFL players.
Time will tell.

Scrap
05-06-2005, 06:57 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/05/20050320jbPittWannstedt_450-1.jpg

"So there we were 9 seconds left, when Jay dives in for the winning score to beat the Raiders."

:lol: I couldn't help it.That pic just looks like he's telling old stories.

yankeehillbilly
05-06-2005, 07:07 AM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000


No talent evaluation ability
Fired good assistants to give less qualified friends jobs
Stuck with a career backup QB as his starter until the bitter end
Based his entire offense on a single player.
Unwilling or unable to make halftime adjustments.
Unwilling or unable to game plan for an opponents specific weaknesses
Kept pumping money into the defense even though the offense was a joke
Did not hold players accountable for missed assignments/poor play
Let players decide whether or not they should practice for undesireable conditions
Chose to install unqualified OC's that he could control instead of using coaches with OC experience that were already on staff
preferred using cheap theatrics (lobster trap?) instead of motivating his players
General lack of understanding of the game (stated after the NE "snow bowl" loss..."these conditions were really not conducive to running the ball")
Do I need to continue?

jlfin
05-06-2005, 07:24 AM
Results are what matters in this league. His track record speaks for itself, dating back to his days in Chicago. No one knows what goes on behind the scenes, we can only assess the outcome.
When he takes over a team he has initial success (He is a players' coach), but then there is a gradual decline in team performance despite an improvement in talent. 2 seasons ago when the team acquired RW, he led the league in rushing. JT led the league in sacks and they were a top 5 defense. Yet, no playoffs and dismal performances against 2 teams with losing records to close out the season. I would argue the the team he coached his first year with the Dolphins was no where ne as good as the one 2 years ago, yet they advanced to the second rd of the playoffs.

DreamWeaver
05-06-2005, 07:33 AM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000

If you need to be told...AGAIN....how Wanny ruined this franchise then you don't know anything about Dolphins football.

LarryFinFan
05-06-2005, 07:57 AM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000


Wanny Who ??

Saban is our coach...

While he was a good D coach, he was very poor at the business side of being a HC and GM (look at the condition he left the cap, the inbalance in pay to the O and D and the fact that he traded away so many draft picks), he was a poor talent evaluator (look at his draft records), he played favorites with certain players and didn't give other players a chance (see Carey, see Ears, see AJ Feeley, see A. Freeman and these are just from last year), he was unable to keep the organization and coaches together and focused (look at the state of affairs with the coaching carosel last year, the choices he made for OC, the fact that the coaches didn't get along with each other, etc), and finally look at the what he did to ChiTown and the way he left us (there is a striking resemblance).

That is just a few things that I can think of off the top of my head that point to his poor head coaching in the NFL today.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 08:04 AM
Look at how talented our team was and how mediocre we were, proof enough. I dont really get the point of this thread, you want proof Wanny sucked? Open your eyes and it is easy to see

Your team wasn't nearly as talented as you believe. Wannstedt did a better job than Jimmy Johnson did w/ you guys. basically in 4 years he made the playoffs twice, won a div title(something JJ never did), missed the playoffs by a game(mostly b/c Fiedler missed a bunch of games) and then the whole team fell apart last year which wasn't his fault. He's not a great coach but to solely blame him is wrong. The best coaches in the NFL wouldn't have won more than 5 or 6 games w/ what happened last year.

lotion
05-06-2005, 08:16 AM
Please. Please no more Wanny talk. Reading this thread is bringing back emotions that I thought I had tucked away nicely.
Let it go.
I heard him on the radio the day Surtain got traded and they were asking him about the Dolphins draft and he actually had the gaull(sp?) to comment on it. He wanted to go on and they finally cut him off. I thought to myself how unprofessional that was, he has no business speaking about the Dolphins at all. I bet if one of the bozo reporters called him at Pitt he'd still talk about the fins like he's the coach or knows what's going on. Pulease...

He was a failure in the NFL except for a few years in Dallas with JJ as a coordinator when Dallas had more talent than any other team, that sums up Wanny in the nutshell.

Demented Dolfan
05-06-2005, 08:20 AM
I WANT THE TRUTH!

YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH MISTER!!!!:roflmao:

mike_vee
05-06-2005, 08:42 AM
Your team wasn't nearly as talented as you believe. Wannstedt did a better job than Jimmy Johnson did w/ you guys. basically in 4 years he made the playoffs twice, won a div title(something JJ never did), missed the playoffs by a game(mostly b/c Fiedler missed a bunch of games) and then the whole team fell apart last year which wasn't his fault. He's not a great coach but to solely blame him is wrong. The best coaches in the NFL wouldn't have won more than 5 or 6 games w/ what happened last year.what do you know ?? your just sore because now we have a real coach and we'll be kicking your jets a$$es all over the field ....

Z40aPhinatic
05-06-2005, 09:33 AM
Hey, ive been here a while im actually in school right now, i play for Bethel Park Football and Wanny was here jsut last friday talking to some of us, Bethel Park is right near Pitt, hes making trips around so he can get familar with all the players and i had a good convo with him, hes a quiet guy, i dont know doesnt seem liek the guy thats that bad of a coach, but it was sure interesting meeting him and telling him im a life long dolphins fan

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 10:12 AM
what do you know ?? your just sore because now we have a real coach and we'll be kicking your jets a$$es all over the field ....


You got me, i am now scared of the dolphins b/c of Nick Saban. I wasn't scared when you had Shula or Johnson but I should now be scared of a coach who has never coached an NFL game. :rolleyes:

LarryFinFan
05-06-2005, 10:38 AM
Hey, ive been here a while im actually in school right now, i play for Bethel Park Football and Wanny was here jsut last friday talking to some of us, Bethel Park is right near Pitt, hes making trips around so he can get familar with all the players and i had a good convo with him, hes a quiet guy, i dont know doesnt seem liek the guy thats that bad of a coach, but it was sure interesting meeting him and telling him im a life long dolphins fan


He's a very good defensive coach...he just couldn't handle the HC and GM position in the NFL. At the college level, he might be ok...he can evaluate from a much broader scope of players and the talent he'll play against (in general) will not be top notch for EVERY game (in other words, he'll have some "Weak Sisters Of The Poor" to play against along with the stronger teams.) He just did not have the ability to handle an NFL team. Much different than the college level.

LarryFinFan
05-06-2005, 10:41 AM
You got me, i am now scared of the dolphins b/c of Nick Saban. I wasn't scared when you had Shula or Johnson but I should now be scared of a coach who has never coached an NFL game. :rolleyes:


I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but you should be scared because you don't know if you're gonna have Pennington or not...your whole team's success rests on his health...

Don't get me wrong, my Fins aren't gonna challenge much this year, but our team isn't going to be built around one guy anymore...

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 11:01 AM
I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but you should be scared because you don't know if you're gonna have Pennington or not...your whole team's success rests on his health...

Don't get me wrong, my Fins aren't gonna challenge much this year, but our team isn't going to be built around one guy anymore...

I'm concerned but not scared. By all reports he'll be ready to go before TC begins so he should be fine so barring another fluke injury I love our chances this year. I agree, if he is hurt then I am very worried at least a long term injury. If it's a few weeks then I have confidence we have a good backup but anything lengthy and we'd be in trouble but then again you can say that for most teams. If Brady ever went down the Pats would be in BIG trouble.

Superself
05-06-2005, 04:02 PM
A luxury which Wanny had that most other new coaches don't get is that he was on staff as assistant head coach while JJ was in his last year.
IMO its quite indicative of his weakness as a coach when he was given Miami on a silver platter.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:24 PM
A luxury which Wanny had that most other new coaches don't get is that he was on staff as assistant head coach while JJ was in his last year.
IMO its quite indicative of his weakness as a coach when he was given Miami on a silver platter.

You act like he was handed a great team, he was handed a team that lost 62-7 in the playoffs and had no running game and Marino was retiring.

abNORMal
05-06-2005, 04:35 PM
I'm concerned but not scared. By all reports he'll be ready to go before TC begins so he should be fine so barring another fluke injury I love our chances this year. I agree, if he is hurt then I am very worried at least a long term injury. If it's a few weeks then I have confidence we have a good backup but anything lengthy and we'd be in trouble but then again you can say that for most teams. If Brady ever went down the Pats would be in BIG trouble.


Uhhh, who-up is your back-up again???:roflmao:

Seriously though, I would be a little concerned about #28, he can't possibly repeat what he did last year, if he does I will be even more amazed by him, as much as I hate that he is a jet, I gotta give props to C. Martin...but if you tell anyone I will deny it!!!!

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Uhhh, who-up is your back-up again???:roflmao:

Seriously though, I would be a little concerned about #28, he can't possibly repeat what he did last year, if he does I will be even more amazed by him, as much as I hate that he is a jet, I gotta give props to C. Martin...but if you tell anyone I will deny it!!!!


I don't expect him to rush for 1,700 yards again. At some point he's going to slow down but he'll still be effective. I would expect about 1,300 yds next year and less of a pounding than this past year b/c we have an OC who isn't afraid to throw the ball once in a while.

LarryFinFan
05-06-2005, 04:40 PM
Hey, Lee..

Do you have the "proof" you were looking for ??

But the bottom line is 4 seasons of mediocre-to-good performance with one playoff loss and last year's debacle despite having one of the best RBs in the league (until last year) and one of the top defenses in the league...what else do you need ??

shellgh0st
05-06-2005, 04:43 PM
You act like he was handed a great team, he was handed a team that lost 62-7 in the playoffs and had no running game and Marino was retiring.

He was handed a team with a top 5 defense and a very good special teams group. All he had to do is build the offense up.

Compare that to coaches that walk into much worse situations and still do as well, if not better than Wanny did.

As Wanny made his exist, we are only left with 2 good offensive players that he brought in.

Now stop to think, what if he had a bottom 10 ranked defense? What would he have added? One or two players there?

This team would've ranked in the bottom of the AFCE if it wasn't for the fact JJ had already built up the team and left Wanny a team that was 'only a player or two away, we're close.' Isn't that how they put it?

Even though he was handed a team that was already being built running the same/similar system he would want, he still ran it into the ground. That is just sad.

abNORMal
05-06-2005, 04:45 PM
You act like he was handed a great team, he was handed a team that lost 62-7 in the playoffs and had no running game and Marino was retiring.


Good point..the downfall of our illustrious franchise began before DW was given the HC position.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:46 PM
He was handed a team with a top 5 defense and a very good special teams group. All he had to do is build the offense up.

Compare that to coaches that walk into much worse situations and still do as well, if not better than Wanny did.

As Wanny made his exist, we are only left with 2 good offensive players that he brought in.

Now stop to think, what if he had a bottom 10 ranked defense? What would he have added? One or two players there?

This team would've ranked in the bottom of the AFCE if it wasn't for the fact JJ had already built up the team and left Wanny a team that was 'only a player or two away, we're close.' Isn't that how they put it?

Even though he was handed a team that was already being built running the same/similar system he would want, he still ran it into the ground. That is just sad.

He was handed a team that had a D that always folded in big games and he was handed no O. His best offensive player was Gadsden, he did a great job leading Miami to it's only div title in the last decade. I'd love to go back and forth now but I have to go. I'll pick it up again later.

shellgh0st
05-06-2005, 04:59 PM
He was handed a team that had a D that always folded in big games and he was handed no O. His best offensive player was Gadsden, he did a great job leading Miami to it's only div title in the last decade. I'd love to go back and forth now but I have to go. I'll pick it up again later.

Yeah, lets compare that to what Andy Reid was handed in Philly when he took over. Let's see a sad defense, good special teams, a very sad offense with no qb, no ol, no wrs, no te.

Did the defense fold? Sometimes. Did they have the support of a good offense that kept them off the field? No. Did we have very good special teams? Yes. We had a top defense as well. Pro bowl players all across the board. He was handed Surtain, Madison, Zach, Bowens, Taylor and several 'good' players as well.

Bottom line, they were a top 5 defense and they fit his system! You can't ask for much more.

He also had a very good kicker and special teams unit. You cant ask to be handed much more.

The offense had it's problems. If it didn't, JJ would've lead us to a superbowl.

Our offense had as many problems as the Eagles offense had. Unlike Andy Reid though, Wanny didn't have to lose sleep over his defense. He was in a MUCH better position. Some can point out that the NFC is easier, but the fact is, Wanny was put in a great position to enjoy as much success as the Eagles have had without needing to rebuild a defense and special teams unit.

I can defend my position by using Wanny and JJs words "we're close." Your position is simply your opinion.

Look at Parcells, he has a bad offense and a defense that doesn't fit his system. So instead of using his draft picks to upgrade that offense, he had to spend this draft upgrading his defense. Wouldn't it have been nice if one of his buddy's had built a good defense with players that fit his system and handed him the Cowboys?

Wanny couldve had it MUCH MUCH worse. He had a very good team handed to him and he turned it into a failure like he did with the Bears.

dolphingator
05-06-2005, 10:08 PM
The consensus is that wannabe was a failure as HC in large part because he was handed a team with a strong defense and proceeded to draft a bunch of defensive players (Jamar Fletcher) and did NOTHING to help build the offense.

Last time I checked, Matt Roth plays defense.

So does Channing Crowder.

And I really don't care what Jim Bates said about the defense, it didn't need as much fixing as the offense. 6 years and counting and STILL no QB.

Ronnie Brown is not an equivalent replacement for pothead, talent-wise, just yet. For all we know he may be a bust. Drafting him does NOT solve our offensive problems.

So far I see a wannabe-like pattern emerging with Saban and I sweated blood to see Saban hired. I am not off the bandwagon but I am concerned.


TRADE FOR A QB- GET RIVERS, RAMSEY OR BREES

FinfanInBuffalo
05-06-2005, 10:21 PM
Proof of incompetence...

I'll just say a few things about the season that pisses me off the most and will ALWAYS piss me off the most...2002

In 2002 the Miami Dolphins were...

12th in points scored: Not great but above average.
4th in points allowed: When you give up the 4th fewest points in football you are a playoff team.
2nd in rushing yards: Ricky was sick in 2002
4th in Yards per carry: 4th...even though every team in the league knew Ricky was coming.
11th against the pass
5th against the run
5th in interceptions
3rd in total defense
Had 6 players named to the Pro Bowl
Had the NFL's rushing champion.



Who was the coach when these happened?

FinfanInBuffalo
05-06-2005, 10:25 PM
Your team wasn't nearly as talented as you believe. Wannstedt did a better job than Jimmy Johnson did w/ you guys. basically in 4 years he made the playoffs twice, won a div title(something JJ never did), missed the playoffs by a game(mostly b/c Fiedler missed a bunch of games) and then the whole team fell apart last year which wasn't his fault. He's not a great coach but to solely blame him is wrong. The best coaches in the NFL wouldn't have won more than 5 or 6 games w/ what happened last year.

An intelligent response. Do you want to join the fin fans? We could use you.

snap
05-06-2005, 10:33 PM
A lot of us run off at the mouth about Wanny and how bad a coach he was. Well, other than our own perception/opinion, it is time to anty up some proof. This thread is more about concrete examples of his incompetence and general chaos. Provide proof to me as though I know nothing about Dolphin football.

Lee2000


CHECK THE SIDELINES BOSS.....WANNY IS A DEAD SUBJECT NOW...ANY MENTION OF HIS NAME ONLY REMINDS US HOW FAR DOWN HE HAS TAKEN US..ANY OTHER PROOFS YOU NEED JUST WATCH PITT IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS....YOU WILL HAVE YOUR ANSWER!! :confused: :yell: :evil:

shellgh0st
05-07-2005, 12:41 AM
The consensus is that wannabe was a failure as HC in large part because he was handed a team with a strong defense and proceeded to draft a bunch of defensive players (Jamar Fletcher) and did NOTHING to help build the offense.

Last time I checked, Matt Roth plays defense.

So does Channing Crowder.

And I really don't care what Jim Bates said about the defense, it didn't need as much fixing as the offense. 6 years and counting and STILL no QB.

Ronnie Brown is not an equivalent replacement for pothead, talent-wise, just yet. For all we know he may be a bust. Drafting him does NOT solve our offensive problems.

So far I see a wannabe-like pattern emerging with Saban and I sweated blood to see Saban hired. I am not off the bandwagon but I am concerned.


TRADE FOR A QB- GET RIVERS, RAMSEY OR BREES

The big difference here is that Wanny spent a year as a assistant coach under JJ prior to taking over the team. So he shouldve known that we had a lot of talent on defense.

What you dont get here is that when Wanny brought in Feilder, he thought he fixed the QB need. That was his 'guy.' And Wanny's defensive players fit his system and were young too.

Saban doesn't have the luxury of having spent a year with the team prior to taking over. He knows his defense is old and the players don't fit his style of defense.

I'm confident that if Saban saw a guy on the board that he thought could be a franchise QB he wouldve snatched him up. Drafting a young QB just because you have a opening for a franchise QB isnt a smart move if you dont feel that the guy you are drafting can become a pro bowl player. We already have 'good' players at that position. He brought in a franchise back. We have a ton of OL and a great OL coach. It's time to coach players up at those positions. We already have pro bowl potential players at WR and TE.

Other then franchise QB, LT, and RB. I dont see why we wouldnt bring in young defensive players when our defense is getting very old and the players do not fit his style.

Sure, he couldve went by our stats, like Parcells did with the cowboys and ignored the fact that these guys dont fit his style and then eventually he wouldve had to replace them. Parcells regrets not upgrading his defense sooner. Saban will not.

dolphingator
05-07-2005, 01:27 AM
But we run a HUGE risk of "papering over" our Offensive woes with a strong defense and being, in the long run, a mediocre team like the Johnson days of 10-6 at best. To be an elite franchise again will REQUIRE a franchise QB and a more talented WR corps and the clock is already ticking... especially at QB. We will have to develop a guy for 2-3 years. I don't want to see us be a "doughnut" team... a team with all the other ingredients but lacking the QB at center.

3 years from now feeley is 31 and that is NOT the upswing of an NFL career.

Everyone always points to the Ravens. ONE team wins a SB with a strong D, mediocre offense and a poor QB and everyone thinks that is The Model. :shakeno: That is actually regarded by knowledgeable NFL people as the most monumental FLUKE win in SB history. The ONE time in 40 years where a team like that won anything. (And they beat the Giants who were essentially the same, just that they had Kerry Collins who was as bad as Dilfer, and a worse D.) ALL other SB's in HISTORY were won by a team with a very good-to-excellent QB who carried the team; the SB teams with mediocre journeymen at QB have always been the ringless losers.

We have GOT to get a QB. Neither feeley nor frerotte will EVER appear in a playoff game for the Miami Dolphins. I am as sure of that as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

shellgh0st
05-07-2005, 01:53 AM
But we run a HUGE risk of "papering over" our Offensive woes with a strong defense and being, in the long run, a mediocre team like the Johnson days of 10-6 at best. To be an elite franchise again will REQUIRE a franchise QB and a more talented WR corps and the clock is already ticking... especially at QB. We will have to develop a guy for 2-3 years. I don't want to see us be a "doughnut" team... a team with all the other ingredients but lacking the QB at center.

3 years from now feeley is 31 and that is NOT the upswing of an NFL career.

Everyone always points to the Ravens. ONE team wins a SB with a strong D, mediocre offense and a poor QB and everyone thinks that is The Model. :shakeno: That is actually regarded by knowledgeable NFL people as the most monumental FLUKE win in SB history. The ONE time in 40 years where a team like that won anything. (And they beat the Giants who were essentially the same, just that they had Kerry Collins who was as bad as Dilfer, and a worse D.) ALL other SB's in HISTORY were won by a team with a very good-to-excellent QB who carried the team; the SB teams with mediocre journeymen at QB have always been the ringless losers.

We have GOT to get a QB. Neither feeley nor frerotte will EVER appear in a playoff game for the Miami Dolphins. I am as sure of that as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

The bucs also won a superbowl with a strong defense and sad offense with no franchise QB.

Ever heard the term 'defense wins championships'? How many superbowls has P. Manning won? Why cant he win one? NO DEFENSE.

Yeah, you need a franchise QB. Show me the franchise QB we passed up? We passed up question marks at QB in the draft for players who had higher marks on defense. Thats the smart move.

I think AJ is a good QB. He played well with the Eagles. He will surprise a lot of you doubters this year.

This isnt the old NFL. Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Trent Dilfer, have made the superbowl in recent years. Guys like Brady and Warner came out of no where. The same can happen for us.

Yes we would LOVE to get our hands on a franchise QB. Wanting one and being able to get your hands on the next P. Manning are two different things.

We took the best route this year. If AJ sucks, we will have the option to trade for someone in the draft, make a move for Rivers or Brees.

unifiedtheory
05-07-2005, 05:08 AM
Who was the coach when these happened?

Guess...:tongue:

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 06:59 AM
Yeah, lets compare that to what Andy Reid was handed in Philly when he took over. Let's see a sad defense, good special teams, a very sad offense with no qb, no ol, no wrs, no te.

First of, philly stunk his first year then b/c of a weak divsion and conference they began to get better quickly to where they are now a big time team. I didn't say Wanny was handed nothing but he wasn't exactly handed a SB contender like you guys believe. He had NOTHING on Offense and a choking D. You can give me all the "top 5 D" stats you want, just go look up their performance in big games. Top 5 D's show up in big games, Miami did not have a top 5 D.


Look at Parcells, he has a bad offense and a defense that doesn't fit his system. So instead of using his draft picks to upgrade that offense, he had to spend this draft upgrading his defense. Wouldn't it have been nice if one of his buddy's had built a good defense with players that fit his system and handed him the Cowboys?

Actually Parcells was left w/ a very good D in Dallas, they were #1 the year before last but they were horrible last year after BP tinkered w/ it.


Wanny couldve had it MUCH MUCH worse. He had a very good team handed to him and he turned it into a failure like he did with the Bears.

he was handed a mediocre team which he made BETTER. He acquired some offensive talent like Ricky, Chambers, McMichael, etc... something the dolphins had lacked since the early 90s. His teams happened to play in the NFL's toughest division, if he had the luxury of playing in the NFC East he would have done more there. Eveen in the AFC East he brought the dolphins their only div title in the last decade and that was when expectations were for a horrible season after losing JJ and marino.

I am not trying to tell you Wanny was a great coach but I think you guys have overrated your talent over the last 7-8 years. They were never a team that had SB talent.

shellgh0st
05-07-2005, 10:10 AM
First of, philly stunk his first year then b/c of a weak divsion and conference they began to get better quickly to where they are now a big time team. I didn't say Wanny was handed nothing but he wasn't exactly handed a SB contender like you guys believe. He had NOTHING on Offense and a choking D. You can give me all the "top 5 D" stats you want, just go look up their performance in big games. Top 5 D's show up in big games, Miami did not have a top 5 D.



Actually Parcells was left w/ a very good D in Dallas, they were #1 the year before last but they were horrible last year after BP tinkered w/ it.



he was handed a mediocre team which he made BETTER. He acquired some offensive talent like Ricky, Chambers, McMichael, etc... something the dolphins had lacked since the early 90s. His teams happened to play in the NFL's toughest division, if he had the luxury of playing in the NFC East he would have done more there. Eveen in the AFC East he brought the dolphins their only div title in the last decade and that was when expectations were for a horrible season after losing JJ and marino.

I am not trying to tell you Wanny was a great coach but I think you guys have overrated your talent over the last 7-8 years. They were never a team that had SB talent.

Wanny said "we're close" and said we are one or two players away from winning it all when he took over.

You also over look the fact he had advantages that most other coaches never get. Taking over a team that runs the same system. Being with the team as an assistant head coach the year prior to taking over the team.

BP didnt mess with dallas defense, that is why they fell apart.

Ironic, you call Dallas' defense #1 rated when you want to make a point, but dismiss our defenses statistical achievments when they don't support your theory. Do stats matter or not?

Once again Wanny and JJ said "WE'RE CLOSE."

I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating.

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 10:16 AM
Wanny said "we're close" and said we are one or two players away from winning it all when he took over.

You also over look the fact he had advantages that most other coaches never get. Taking over a team that runs the same system. Being with the team as an assistant head coach the year prior to taking over the team.

BP didnt mess with dallas defense, that is why they fell apart.

Ironic, you call Dallas' defense #1 rated when you want to make a point, but dismiss our defenses statistical achievments when they don't support your theory. Do stats matter or not?

Once again Wanny and JJ said "WE'RE CLOSE."

I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating.


Did you expect Wannstedt to say "we are 3 or 4 years away"? When Parcells stepped down in NY he passed it off to Al Groh and he had all the "advantages" that Wannstedt(and more since we had an offense) yet the team flamed out under Groh.

Dallas had the #1 ranked D and their D didn't fold like Miami. They kept their team in the playoff game they had unlike Mimai's Ds which were down 14-0 to Den after 1 qtr in '98, 24-0 to Jax in '99 and 10-0 to Oak in '00. The Miami D's were vastly overrated. Wannstedt had NOTHING to work w/ on O. You brought up Andy reid earlier but he at least had Donovan McNabb and Duce Staley to work w/ while Wanny had nothing. The best he could do was get Fiedler and Smith.

shellgh0st
05-07-2005, 10:21 AM
"I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating."

reread please.

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 10:22 AM
"I would love to go back and forth about this, but its pointless as you aren't being objective on this issue at all. Anyone who doesnt think Wanny was handed a good position, much better then most coaches are given, isnt looking at the situation logically and not worth debating."

reread please.

I apologize for trying to educate you.

shellgh0st
05-07-2005, 10:28 AM
I apologize for trying to educate you.

You should apologize for a lot more.

You showed that you aren't an objective person. That you would rather try to win a debate then learn from what someone has to say. That is a very bad trait you have there.

I took in everything you had to say, but once you showed you were going to be a hypocrite (dismissing stats as fact and then using stats as a fact) the debate ends. Why? Everything I type is falling on a close mind.

Hey you made up your mind, thats cool. Go try to convince someone else that the guy who wreck the Bears and turned around and wreck the Dolphins was really a very good coach that had a raw deal handed to him.

What kind of special ed education are you trying to brain wash people with?

I just dont buy that, because nothing you said holds water.

nyjunc
05-08-2005, 08:55 AM
You showed that you aren't an objective person. That you would rather try to win a debate then learn from what someone has to say. That is a very bad trait you have there.

Wait a second, you have shown you are objective? I hav shown you proof of what the dolphins did before DW and after and what was left for DW. No he wasn't left a bare cupboard but h wasn't left a SB team either. he ws left a team that was supposed to be down in '00 yet he guided them to the div title. Check your posts before you start calling other people unobjective.


Go try to convince someone else that the guy who wreck the Bears and turned around and wreck the Dolphins was really a very good coach that had a raw deal handed to him.

Wrecked the Bears? he took over a sinking ship that was 5-11 the year before he got there. He didn't wreck anything. He didn't improve them overall but he didn't wreck them. The bottom line is YOU are the one who is not objective, DW is not a great coach but he wasn't responsible for last year and he did a BETTER job than the man he took over for.