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Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 10:11 AM
For agruments sake and lack of any interesting reports, there could be one hell of a chess match in this division.

Bellichick- no one gets his team as well prepared as he does. The Pats IMO was one of the best teams when it came to gameplanning. How much of his success should be credited to Crennel and Weiss . This guy doesn't show any emotion even after a win. He's all business.

Herm Edwards- Great motivator but the Jets have been mediocre for the longest time. I do believe that their team is poised to challenge the Patriots this year if Chad can stay healthy. Their D is getting better by adding an aggressive DC.

Saban- great and proven DC. Assembled what seems to be a good coaching staff. I have no doubt in my mind that like BB, he will get his team ready on Sundays. Nazzi? So is BB and Parcells. All business. I would love to see who outsmarts who when the fins play the Pats next year.


Mularkey- just like Saban, the jury is still out. Despite Drew, he still had a decent 1st year. He couldn't run the offense he wanted w/ a qb who was less mobile than the statue of Liberty. He's been very successful as an OC w/ mediocre qb's like Maddox and Slash when he was in Pitts.


Not only do AFCE teams play harder w/ in the division, it got even harder with all the brains thrusts behind the teams. It isn't about just talent anymore. It's is now a chess game and whoever can put his pieces in strategic positions should win. I have no doubt that Saban will be up there.


I expect this to turn into smack at some point but let's try to keep it on the minimum (wishful thnking).

Slappy8800
05-06-2005, 10:22 AM
isnt this is in the wrong forum?

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 10:34 AM
Great motivator but the Jets have been mediocre for the longest time

Under Herm the Jets have been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, the div rd 2 of those 3 years, and won an AFC East title(the only team besides the Pats in that span). How is that mediocre? Mediocre is finishing around .500 evry year and missing the playoffs, the Bills have been medicore the past few years. The Jets have been one of the better teams in the conference.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 10:37 AM
aside from coaching, just with the players the AFC EAST is by far the hardest division in the entire NFL. No division comes close.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 10:51 AM
Under Herm the Jets have been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, the div rd 2 of those 3 years, and won an AFC East title(the only team besides the Pats in that span). How is that mediocre? Mediocre is finishing around .500 evry year and missing the playoffs, the Bills have been medicore the past few years. The Jets have been one of the better teams in the conference.Depends on how you define mediocrity. IMO ,anytime you just barely makeplayoffs, youre mediocre.

Actually the bills have been less than mediocre IMO since the Kelly era.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 11:02 AM
Depends on how you define mediocrity. IMO ,anytime you just barely makeplayoffs, youre mediocre.

Actually the bills have been less than mediocre IMO since the Kelly era.

Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???

Slappy8800
05-06-2005, 11:04 AM
NFC east is pretty tough now too

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 11:08 AM
Depends on how you define mediocrity. IMO ,anytime you just barely makeplayoffs, youre mediocre.

Actually the bills have been less than mediocre IMO since the Kelly era.

Barely making the playoffs might be losing in the WC rd but we've made the div rd 2 of the last 3 years and making the playoffs at all is not medicority. Medicority is just missing the playoffs.


NFC east is pretty tough now too

No it's not, they have one very good team and 3 mediocre or worse teams.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:08 AM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???So Wanny's ran an elite team? like I said, it depends on you definition of mediocre or you standards.

t47c
05-06-2005, 11:09 AM
the one thing about saban going against Bellicheck, If (and that's a big if at this point) he has any success other teams will look at the films and immulate whatever he does. If this happens other teams might have some success againts the Pats too. No let me say again...this is a big IF. We all know how much the NFL is a copycat league. I do think Saban knows bellicheck about as well as any coach in the league. (except Cremel in Cleveland)

Slappy8800
05-06-2005, 11:11 AM
immulate?

you mean immitate or emulate i think..i could be wrong...english is my second language..bad english being my first

yankeehillbilly
05-06-2005, 11:12 AM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???

So, we were an ELITE team under Wanny in 2000 and 2001?
12 teams out of 32 make the playoffs. Thats just a little over 1/3.
Being in the top third is maybe a little better than "mediocre", but it certainly isnt elite.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 11:13 AM
So Wanny's ran an elite team? like I said, it depends on you definition of mediocre or you standards.

Did wannys team make the playoffs. YES. Elite out of 32 teams. What you do IN the playoffs is what makes you great or not. The Chargers had an Elite team last year and so did the Steelers, what did they do in the playoffs??? NOTHING. But in season they WERE an Elite team

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:20 AM
Did wannys team make the playoffs. YES. Elite out of 32 teams. What you do IN the playoffs is what makes you great or not. The Chargers had an Elite team last year and so did the Steelers, what did they do in the playoffs??? NOTHING. But in season they WERE an Elite team
I thought elite teams are the ones that can win big games? Final 4 is what I consider elite. The best of the AFC and NFC.

Okay so we don't share the definition or don't the have the same standards. Let's move on.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 11:25 AM
the STEELERS lost 1 game in the regular season, is that not elite????

ch19079
05-06-2005, 11:27 AM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???

if that was true, all those NFC teams that made the playoffs are elite.

thats not true.

elite is the wrong term to use. the only elite team in teh NFL for the past few years is the patriots. i woudl say teh eagles are a great team, but not elite. and winning 9 or 10 games to make the playoffs only to get bounced out in the 1st round does not make you "elite", it makes you better than all the teams who didnt make the playoffs.

its better to call it, average, above average, and great.

the jets were above average, the pats were great. :fire:
the bills were average :(

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:29 AM
the STEELERS lost 1 game in the regular season, is that not elite???? they did play the Pats for the AFC tittle , hence my final 4 comment.

Regualr season is a different ballgame from the playoffs. That's why Wanny is gone. That's why Wade Philipps was dropped after having 2 playoff appearances.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 11:30 AM
Ok if your argument is true than CLASSIFY the "Mediocre" RAVENS Super Bowl TEAM. They were 10-6 right????

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:43 AM
the bills beat the Rams and and Seahawks last and we would've beaten them again. They made playoffs , we didn't because they were in a weak division . Were they elite teams? The fins beat the Pats, does that make the fins an elite team? This is why regular season means nothing. Wild card and 1st rd playoffs is where the pretenders get exposed. Elite teams do not fold the bigger the games get.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:45 AM
Ok if your argument is true than CLASSIFY the "Mediocre" RAVENS Super Bowl TEAM. They were 10-6 right????they were mediocre? How is a sb champ mediocre? Their O was mediocre but as a whole team, they were great. Their D made up for their O.

Phinadict
05-06-2005, 11:49 AM
IMO, the regular season means nothing in defining an elite team. If you get to the playoffs and lay eggs each year (see Wanny), then you are NOT an elite team. In contrast, the Bills went to 4 consecutive superbowls, but lost each one. Even with the defeats, I would consider those teams in the elite group of the NFL (at the time). The regular season is the warm up for the elite teams. The time to work out the kinks (see patriots last few years). The playoffs are what separate the elite from the mediocre. Just my opinion.

dolfreak
05-06-2005, 11:49 AM
what about the 2000 Mediocre St. Louis Rams (10-6) , no they were not elite right??? Greatest show on turf is mediocre. Yor not going to win this argument, just stick with your Bills.

Boy I Love Losing Superbowls!!!

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 11:54 AM
what about the 2000 Mediocre St. Louis Rams (10-6) , no they were not elite right??? Greatest show on turf is mediocre. Yor not going to win this argument, just stick with your Bills.

Boy I Love Losing Superbowls!!!

:mrt:

phunwin
05-06-2005, 12:11 PM
For agruments sake and lack of any interesting reports, there could be one hell of a chess match in this division.

Bellichick- no one gets his team as well prepared as he does. The Pats IMO was one of the best teams when it came to gameplanning. How much of his success should be credited to Crennel and Weiss . This guy doesn't show any emotion even after a win. He's all business.

Herm Edwards- Great motivator but the Jets have been mediocre for the longest time. I do believe that their team is poised to challenge the Patriots this year if Chad can stay healthy. Their D is getting better by adding an aggressive DC.

Saban- great and proven DC. Assembled what seems to be a good coaching staff. I have no doubt in my mind that like BB, he will get his team ready on Sundays. Nazzi? So is BB and Parcells. All business. I would love to see who outsmarts who when the fins play the Pats next year.


Mularkey- just like Saban, the jury is still out. Despite Drew, he still had a decent 1st year. He couldn't run the offense he wanted w/ a qb who was less mobile than the statue of Liberty. He's been very successful as an OC w/ mediocre qb's like Maddox and Slash when he was in Pitts.


Not only do AFCE teams play harder w/ in the division, it got even harder with all the brains thrusts behind the teams. It isn't about just talent anymore. It's is now a chess game and whoever can put his pieces in strategic positions should win. I have no doubt that Saban will be up there.


I expect this to turn into smack at some point but let's try to keep it on the minimum (wishful thnking).

Edwards is ridiculously overrated as a coach. No one, and I mean NO ONE does a worse job of clock management, not even Denny Green. I also think that his way of motivating and challenging his players is starting to wear thin, and he'll flame out within the next couple years, the same way Jim Fassel did.

Belichick, obviously, is an excellent coach.

And I agree that it's way too soon to make a determination how good Mularkey and Saban are. Mularkey looked about as bright as a lobotomy outpatient for the first four games of last year, but did a phenomenal job after that...right up until the Pittsburgh game, when I think he let his players believe their own hype too much and didn't get them up enough for the biggest game of the year. I think, by and large, he knows what he's doing.

I have a lot of confidence in Saban, but again, we can't say anything for sure until we see how his team performs on the field. I do think that within 5 years, Saban will be regarded as on par with Belichick, Mularkey will be doing a solid job in Buffalo, and Edwards will be parading around Times Square with a sign that says, "Will Coach For Food".

feelthepain
05-06-2005, 12:22 PM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???


So Minny is an elite team??? I don't think so. Maybe the O but the D was worse then a heaping pile of donkey doo doo!! Yet they were one win away from the NFC championship game. They ended the season with like 7 loses and finished 8-8 and thats elite???? This is exactly the reason why the Eagles make the NFC title game every year because come playoff time that conference is so bad that you have 8-8 teams fighting for a chnce to make the SB.

Ducken
05-06-2005, 12:35 PM
Good souls guys grow up, The man makes a great 1st post about the coaching in the AFCE andf you guys get hung up on weather or not a team is elite if they make the playoffs :shakeno: Gollyday some of you just need to chill and not take it so darn personal. Opinons are like buttholes people, EVERYONE has one.

And as for the original post, this should be a very exciting year in the elite :wink: AFCE.

DolphinzD
05-06-2005, 12:44 PM
The Chargers had an Elite team last year and so did the Steelers, what did they do in the playoffs??? NOTHING.

Normally I would say that reaching the AFC title game is a great accomplishment, but for the Steelers, it's become par for the course, along with losing the game at home, usually to the eventual Super Bowl champ.

Oboy
05-06-2005, 12:51 PM
I agree the coaching in this division is top notch.

I think what Justa was getting at with the Jets is not necessarily meaning 'mediocre', but just underachieving. They seem to have a lot more talent then they always show. Look at last years game vs. Pitt... Yes the kicker should have made the kick, but Edwards was a fool for running up the middle three straight times. It was kind of funny that they won the week before against SD bc Schotty went conservative at the end and then they lose the same way the next week. Anyway, what I was trying to get at is the Jets should have won that game vs. Pitt soundly. They outplayed them the whole game just never seemed to put them away. Or in previous years they seem to fall apart towards the end of the season (just like the fins did under Wanny)

t47c
05-06-2005, 12:54 PM
no i mean immulate....I think.LOL

painnotpleasure
05-06-2005, 12:55 PM
For agruments sake and lack of any interesting reports, there could be one hell of a chess match in this division.

Bellichick- no one gets his team as well prepared as he does. The Pats IMO was one of the best teams when it came to gameplanning. How much of his success should be credited to Crennel and Weiss . This guy doesn't show any emotion even after a win. He's all business.

Herm Edwards- Great motivator but the Jets have been mediocre for the longest time. I do believe that their team is poised to challenge the Patriots this year if Chad can stay healthy. Their D is getting better by adding an aggressive DC.

Saban- great and proven DC. Assembled what seems to be a good coaching staff. I have no doubt in my mind that like BB, he will get his team ready on Sundays. Nazzi? So is BB and Parcells. All business. I would love to see who outsmarts who when the fins play the Pats next year.


Mularkey- just like Saban, the jury is still out. Despite Drew, he still had a decent 1st year. He couldn't run the offense he wanted w/ a qb who was less mobile than the statue of Liberty. He's been very successful as an OC w/ mediocre qb's like Maddox and Slash when he was in Pitts.


Not only do AFCE teams play harder w/ in the division, it got even harder with all the brains thrusts behind the teams. It isn't about just talent anymore. It's is now a chess game and whoever can put his pieces in strategic positions should win. I have no doubt that Saban will be up there.


I expect this to turn into smack at some point but let's try to keep it on the minimum (wishful thnking).Good post, Justa. Great points, I agree with everything you said. Do you feel though... that with the loss of Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennell (and loss of FA's) that Bill Belichick is still capable (or likely) of coaching the Pats to another Division title? Obviously the Pats are the team to beat... I'm just hoping maybe finally this is the year it all falls apart for them.

Oh and good foreshadowing about the post turning into smack.

WILLIS29
05-06-2005, 01:04 PM
Under Herm the Jets have been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, the div rd 2 of those 3 years, and won an AFC East title(the only team besides the Pats in that span). How is that mediocre? Mediocre is finishing around .500 evry year and missing the playoffs, the Bills have been medicore the past few years. The Jets have been one of the better teams in the conference.
YEAH BUT, chad IMO is not a very good QB. that's why you guys have lost in the playoffs. you'll be mediocre untill chad plays up to par. hey maybe you guys can let feidler play some then you'll see what the definition of mediocre is!

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 01:19 PM
Good post, Justa. Great points, I agree with everything you said. Do you feel though... that with the loss of Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennell (and loss of FA's) that Bill Belichick is still capable (or likely) of coaching the Pats to another Division title? Obviously the Pats are the team to beat... I'm just hoping maybe finally this is the year it all falls apart for them.

Oh and good foreshadowing about the post turning into smack.I really don't know. When the bills played the Pats, they decided to double team Shoebel and run right at him and it killed us. Not sure if that was a Wiess plan or BB. Remember when the Pats were behind(I forget who they played) and the Pats decided to take a safety to shorten their field and they eventually won, it's moves like that that make me wonder who made those calls.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 01:22 PM
I agree the coaching in this division is top notch.

I think what Justa was getting at with the Jets is not necessarily meaning 'mediocre', but just underachieving. They seem to have a lot more talent then they always show. Look at last years game vs. Pitt... Yes the kicker should have made the kick, but Edwards was a fool for running up the middle three straight times. It was kind of funny that they won the week before against SD bc Schotty went conservative at the end and then they lose the same way the next week. Anyway, what I was trying to get at is the Jets should have won that game vs. Pitt soundly. They outplayed them the whole game just never seemed to put them away. Or in previous years they seem to fall apart towards the end of the season (just like the fins did under Wanny)Herm so far is no different from when the fins were making playoffs under Wanny.

MDFINFAN
05-06-2005, 02:06 PM
I really don't know. When the bills played the Pats, they decided to double team Shoebel and run right at him and it killed us. Not sure if that was a Wiess plan or BB. Remember when the Pats were behind(I forget who they played) and the Pats decided to take a safety to shorten their field and they eventually won, it's moves like that that make me wonder who made those calls.

A play like that has to be approved by the HC, it doesn't mean the HC came up with it, but it must be approved by him, I think the Pats Corr.'s were great strategist, and the Pats will miss them, but I also think BB picked up a lot from them and will carry that forth with his new corrdinators. Thus the Pat's will still be a force. The team still knows how to win.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 02:11 PM
Ok if your argument is true than CLASSIFY the "Mediocre" RAVENS Super Bowl TEAM. They were 10-6 right????

Baltimore was 12-4, finished in 2nd to Tennessee who was 13-3 which is why Bal was a WC team but they beat up Denver then won at Tennessee(for the 2nd time that year as they became the 1st team to ever win at Adelphia Coliseum) and then won at Oak in the title game. That Bal team was a damn good team.


YEAH BUT, chad IMO is not a very good QB. that's why you guys have lost in the playoffs. you'll be mediocre untill chad plays up to par. hey maybe you guys can let feidler play some then you'll see what the definition of mediocre is!

Chad is one of the best QBs in the game. He was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder, that is the main reason the Pitt game was close enough for us to lose on a Doug Brien miss.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 02:17 PM
Chad is one of the best QBs in the game. He was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder, that is the main reason the Pitt game was close enough for us to lose on a Doug Brien miss. and what exactly has he done to earn that praise ???

byroan
05-06-2005, 02:21 PM
Boy I Love Losing Superbowls!!!

:roflmao: I've never heard that one before.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 02:28 PM
and what exactly has he done to earn that praise ???
Nevermind I figured it out you just confused "best" with "highest paid"

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 02:37 PM
and what exactly has he done to earn that praise ???

Let's see, he has been a starter for 3 years and in 2 of them he led his team to the divisional round and he led the league in passing in 1 of those years. The year he and we struggled was when he missed half the season w/ the broken wrist. He's also the last QB to go into Foxboro and lead his team to a win.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 02:41 PM
Let's see, he has been a starter for 3 years and in 2 of them he led his team to the divisional round and he led the league in passing in 1 of those years. The year he and we struggled was when he missed half the season w/ the broken wrist. He's also the last QB to go into Foxboro and lead his team to a win.
Sound like hes about 1 step ahead of fiedler...congrats now you have 2 of the "best" qbs in the league :lol: .

Philter25
05-06-2005, 02:45 PM
Under Herm the Jets have been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, the div rd 2 of those 3 years, and won an AFC East title(the only team besides the Pats in that span). How is that mediocre? Mediocre is finishing around .500 evry year and missing the playoffs, the Bills have been medicore the past few years. The Jets have been one of the better teams in the conference.

NYJ (39W) = .609
2001: 10-6
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6
2004: 10-6
MIA (34W) = .531
2001: 11-5
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6
2004: 4-12
NE (48W) = .75
2001: 11-5
2002: 9-7
2003: 14-2
2004: 14-2
BUF (26W) = .406
2001: 3-13
2002: 8-8
2003: 6-10
2004: 9-7

Over the past few years, the bills have been worse than mediocre.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 02:48 PM
Sound like hes about 1 step ahead of fiedler...congrats now you have 2 of the "best" qbs in the league :lol: .

I don't remember Jay leading the league in passing or leading his team to the 2nd round twice.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 02:51 PM
Dude I gave you "1 step ahead" He is definatly a better version of Jay :D

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Dude I gave you "1 step ahead" He is definatly a better version of Jay :D

I guess that would make him 20 yards ahead of AJ? :D

Philter25
05-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Honestly, as good as Pennington was or CAN BE, his injuries are what kills him. They guy CANT STAY HEALTHY. You can be a pro bowl QB, but when you are watching 3-4 games a season from the bench, that doesnt do anything for the team.

I would take a healthy good QB over an injured plagued VERY good QB any day of the week.

With that said, Jay Fiedler sucks and im really glad he is on the Jets cause when Penny gets hurt for his 3-4 games this year, Fiedler comes in. I just hope you guys have us on the schedule when Penny gets hurt.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:10 PM
Honestly, as good as Pennington was or CAN BE, his injuries are what kills him. They guy CANT STAY HEALTHY. You can be a pro bowl QB, but when you are watching 3-4 games a season from the bench, that doesnt do anything for the team.

I would take a healthy good QB over an injured plagued VERY good QB any day of the week.

With that said, Jay Fiedler sucks and im really glad he is on the Jets cause when Penny gets hurt for his 3-4 games this year, Fiedler comes in. I just hope you guys have us on the schedule when Penny gets hurt.

Chad had 2 freak injuries, if it happens again then I'll think it's a Chris Chandler type situation where he can't stay healthy but they were fluky injuries and Fiedler is an excellent backup. You guys forget he led you to the playoffs twice, to your last playoff win, to your last div title and when he got hurt nin '02 you collapsed. He's not nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:11 PM
I guess that would make him 20 yards ahead of AJ? :D
as much of a homer as I am even I have to admit Chad is better than AJ. Chad is a gamer but he has his flaws..fragile and the deep ball.. if you didnt have fiedler as a back-up I would trade our QB situation for yours in a heartbeat :D .

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:12 PM
Chad had 2 freak injuries, if it happens again then I'll think it's a Chris Chandler type situation where he can't stay healthy but they were fluky injuries and Fiedler is an excellent backup. You guys forget he led you to the playoffs twice, to your last playoff win, to your last div title and when he got hurt nin '02 you collapsed. He's not nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be.
Hey you just made my Fiedler point for me THANKS!

and yes he is that bad PRAY you dont have to find out.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:15 PM
Chad had 2 freak injuries, if it happens again then I'll think it's a Chris Chandler type situation where he can't stay healthy but they were fluky injuries and Fiedler is an excellent backup. You guys forget he led you to the playoffs twice, to your last playoff win, to your last div title and when he got hurt nin '02 you collapsed. He's not nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be.
He didnt lead us to anything he just did a little less sabotaging than usual.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 03:18 PM
He's not nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=3012

Almost a career 1:1 TD/INT ratio. Jay was lucky enough to play on a team with a top 5 defense every year. Any QB could go 10-6 with Ricky Williams and a top 5 defense. Ask Kyle Boller.

If Fiedler ever comes in, I would be praying Martin gets 30 carries that game. :lol:
Cause if the game depends on Fiedler throwing a lame duck to Coles, your fawkd.

ch19079
05-06-2005, 03:20 PM
He didnt lead us to anything he just did a little less sabotaging than usual.

:roflmao:

i hate how people always say the QB LEAD them to the playoffs, or to the SB.

a QB can carry a team to the playoffs.

but not all playoff teams have QBs that LEAD the way.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:34 PM
as much of a homer as I am even I have to admit Chad is better than AJ. Chad is a gamer but he has his flaws..fragile and the deep ball.. if you didnt have fiedler as a back-up I would trade our QB situation for yours in a heartbeat :D .

Chad can thrown the deep ball, did you see the nar 50 yd bomb he threw to Moss in the SD playoff game? It was as perfect as a ball can be thrown and that was w/ a torn rotator cuff and a conservative OC. Chad doesn't have a rocket arm but he can make all the throws he needs to make.

Fiedler is better than AJ.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Any QB could go 10-6 with Ricky Williams and a top 5 defense.

That's interesting b/c w/ Ricky in '02 the dolphins were on pace for 11-12 wins then jay got hurt and you missed the playoffs and ended up w/ 9 wins then you missed the playoffs w/ Ricky in '03. W/o Ricky Jay won a div title and guided you to the playoffs 2 straight years and that "top 5 D" you have has always folded in the big spots. Miami has never had a "raven like" D. The Ravens never lost in the playoffs 38-3, 62-7 and 27-0. Your O's never had a shot in those games.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:45 PM
That's interesting b/c w/ Ricky in '02 the dolphins were on pace for 11-12 wins then jay got hurt and you missed the playoffs and ended up w/ 9 wins then you missed the playoffs w/ Ricky in '03. W/o Ricky Jay won a div title and guided you to the playoffs 2 straight years and that "top 5 D" you have has always folded in the big spots. Miami has never had a "raven like" D. The Ravens never lost in the playoffs 38-3, 62-7 and 27-0. Your O's never had a shot in those games.
Hmmm who was the back-up wasnt he a jets cast-off??? sound familiar?

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 03:47 PM
Hey MODS. How do I change the title of the thread to "Chad/Fiedler/Feely...who's better? "

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:48 PM
Hmmm who was the back-up wasnt he a jets cast-off??? sound familiar?
Yeah, your point is? The bottom line is w/o jay your season crumbled. If Jay was as awful as you say he was and it was easy to win w/ Ricky how come the only year a team Ricky was on that made the playoffs was the '00 Saints and Ricky was hurt down the stretch and was no help getting in the playoffs? If Ricky meant wins then why couldn't Lucas win? Obviously Jay must have meant something and been a decent QB if your team fell apart after he got hurt.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:49 PM
That's interesting b/c w/ Ricky in '02 the dolphins were on pace for 11-12 wins then jay got hurt and you missed the playoffs and ended up w/ 9 wins then you missed the playoffs w/ Ricky in '03. W/o Ricky Jay won a div title and guided you to the playoffs 2 straight years and that "top 5 D" you have has always folded in the big spots. Miami has never had a "raven like" D. The Ravens never lost in the playoffs 38-3, 62-7 and 27-0. Your O's never had a shot in those games.
you show an offensive (aint that the truth) production total of 10 points during those 3 playoff losses and thats the Ds fault how??? ill give you the Jags game that was a monumental collapse and probably the worst game in franchise history.. and Dans worst game ever but really TEN points ?? I know its your favorite pastime to to try and blame the dolphin D for everything but for someone who seems knowledgeable (sp) you like to skew the stats.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 03:50 PM
That's interesting b/c w/ Ricky in '02 the dolphins were on pace for 11-12 wins then jay got hurt and you missed the playoffs and ended up w/ 9 wins then you missed the playoffs w/ Ricky in '03. W/o Ricky Jay won a div title and guided you to the playoffs 2 straight years and that "top 5 D" you have has always folded in the big spots. Miami has never had a "raven like" D. The Ravens never lost in the playoffs 38-3, 62-7 and 27-0. Your O's never had a shot in those games.
How many turnovers did Ray Lucas have spelling for Jay Fiedler? Thats why they lost that year. I wont get into another Fiedler debate. Im excited that you are happy you have Fiedler. Good for you. He will be a great backup for the Jets and I am get goosebumps thinking that we will be able to hopefully face him. :D

Yes Miami's D didnt have big games when it needed to, and that was part of the playcalling. Our defense, although we had incredible players, was very easy to scheme. We didnt change anything up and were very predictable. I never called our D Ravenlike, I was just saying that if you have a top 5 D, no matter how average your QB is, you can easily get 9-10 wins as long as your QB doesnt lose games for you. Thats what Jay did. We were conservative on O and he was VERY streaky. Jay isnt a consistant QB. He would have a big game.... and by BIG I mean 200 yards passing, and then he would follow that game up with an abortion of a performance.

I wont get into his mechanics and his reads because thats a 45 min page of type. Ill just say Im glad he is a Jet and im thrilled that you guys are glad also. :D

Philter25
05-06-2005, 03:51 PM
Fiedler is better than AJ.

If he was, you think Saban would cut him? :lol:

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 03:51 PM
Yeah, your point is? The bottom line is w/o jay your season crumbled. If Jay was as awful as you say he was and it was easy to win w/ Ricky how come the only year a team Ricky was on that made the playoffs was the '00 Saints and Ricky was hurt down the stretch and was no help getting in the playoffs? If Ricky meant wins then why couldn't Lucas win? Obviously Jay must have meant something and been a decent QB if your team fell apart after he got hurt.
Dude he threw like 10 picks in 4 games three or four of them where for tds the other way. was fiedler better than Ray hell yes! is herpies better than aids hell ya! but they still both suck.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:54 PM
you show an offensive (aint that the truth) production total of 10 points during those 3 playoff losses and thats the Ds fault how??? ill give you the Jags game that was a monumental collapse and probably the worst game in franchise history.. and Dans worst game ever but really TEN points ?? I know its your favorite pastime to to try and blame the dolphin D for everything but for someone who seems knowledgeable (sp) you like to skew the stats.

38 and 62 points, the O's had no chance. The raider game I can blame a little on the O since it was an INT for a TD that started the Raider roll but the others were all about D(or lack of).


How many turnovers did Ray Lucas have spelling for Jay Fiedler? Thats why they lost that year. I wont get into another Fiedler debate. Im excited that you are happy you have Fiedler. Good for you. He will be a great backup for the Jets and I am get goosebumps thinking that we will be able to hopefully face him.

Regardless the reason would you admit that you were worse off w/o Jay Fiedler in the lineup?


. Jay isnt a consistant QB. He would have a big game.... and by BIG I mean 200 yards passing, and then he would follow that game up with an abortion of a performance.

Jay is not a pro bowler, he's not going to carry teams on his back but when he has talent around him he can win. It won't always be pretty but he gets the job done for the most part. The man won alot of games w/ Miami and I am glad he's here, he's an excellent backup. Do I want him to start? absolutely not but on a short term basis I'd feel comfortable w/ him starting if Chad was out a few games.

nick1
05-06-2005, 03:55 PM
Chad can thrown the deep ball, did you see the nar 50 yd bomb he threw to Moss in the SD playoff game? It was as perfect as a ball can be thrown and that was w/ a torn rotator cuff and a conservative OC. Chad doesn't have a rocket arm but he can make all the throws he needs to make.

Fiedler is better than AJ.

A.J. has a much better arm then Jay, the advantage was with Jay because he knew the system really well after being in it for five years

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 03:56 PM
:lurking:

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:56 PM
If he was, you think Saban would cut him? :lol:

It was time to move on. He can't cut AJ b/c the dolphins invested too much in him. Not all decisions are based upon who the better player is. The dolphins don't have a better CB than Surtain but they moved him, it had to be done.


Dude he threw like 10 picks in 4 games three or four of them where for tds the other way. was fiedler better than Ray hell yes! is herpies better than aids hell ya! but they still both suck.

Your season went down the tubes w/o Fiedler, you were saying how anyone could win w/ Ricky and a top 5 D well not anyone b/c Ray couldn't but interestingly he was 6-3 w/ the Jets in '99.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 03:57 PM
A.J. has a much better arm then Jay, the advantage was with Jay because he knew the system really well after being in it for five years

AJ is a backup QB who will be starting. He's not starter material in this league, Jay was not a great QB but was a solid starter. I'd take Jay over AJ any day as my starter.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Jay is not a pro bowler, he's not going to carry teams on his back but when he has talent around him he can win. It won't always be pretty but he gets the job done for the most part. The man won alot of games w/ Miami and I am glad he's here, he's an excellent backup. Do I want him to start? absolutely not but on a short term basis I'd feel comfortable w/ him starting if Chad was out a few games.

No player wins a lot of games, teams win games. I hated that excuse when Fiedler huggers would bring up his record. The MIAMI TEAMS won those games, not Jay. Look at his personal numbers! I dont care about his record, he was on a good team and put up horrible numbers. Now that was part Wanny's fault also for having a vanilla offense, but mechanically the guy is a career backup and he should be a good backup for you guys. I would be happy to get him, he is a drug free, big ear floppin ex-NFL starter who has game experience. Just make sure Curtis Martin stretches really well when Penny gets hurt because hes going to have a 30+ carry day.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:00 PM
:nesucks:

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:00 PM
38 and 62 points, the O's had no chance. The raider game I can blame a little on the O since it was an INT for a TD that started the Raider roll but the others were all about D(or lack of).
and about 30 three and outs in all 3 games but whatever.. you can go on thinking the D was the problem if it makes you feel better. I will sleep well knowing Jay isnt a Fin :D your nightmares will begin if he has to see time on the field.

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:01 PM
AJ is a backup QB who will be starting. He's not starter material in this league, Jay was not a great QB but was a solid starter. I'd take Jay over AJ any day as my starter.

solid starter? Fielder sucks, when you average more INTs in a season then you do TDs and when your best game is gaining 200 yards then your a back-up failing to be a starter, the D gave Fiedlier all of his W's all he needed to do was not throw the game away and he couldn't even do that

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:02 PM
No player wins a lot of games, teams win games. I hated that excuse when Fiedler huggers would bring up his record. The MIAMI TEAMS won those games, not Jay. Look at his personal numbers! I dont care about his record, he was on a good team and put up horrible numbers. Now that was part Wanny's fault also for having a vanilla offense, but mechanically the guy is a career backup and he should be a good backup for you guys. I would be happy to get him, he is a drug free, big ear floppin ex-NFL starter who has game experience. Just make sure Curtis Martin stretches really well when Penny gets hurt because hes going to have a 30+ carry day.

How did you do w/o him? Outside of last year which Marino in his prime couldn't have won games w/ go check the dolphins record w/ and w/o Jay from '00-'03 and you'll see a big difference.


and about 30 three and outs in all 3 games but whatever.. you can go on thinking the D was the problem if it makes you feel better. I will sleep well knowing Jay isnt a Fin your nightmares will begin if he has to see time on the field.

You act like they were scoreless games into the 2nd half and the D was battling. They were thrashed and the O's had no shots.

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:03 PM
:nesucks:

:yeahthat: but also :billsbite and :jetssuck:

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:03 PM
solid starter? Fielder sucks, when you average more INTs in a season then you do TDs and when your best game is gaining 200 yards then your a back-up failing to be a starter, the D gave Fiedlier all of his W's all he needed to do was not throw the game away and he couldn't even do that
True Dat.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 04:03 PM
It was time to move on. He can't cut AJ b/c the dolphins invested too much in him. Not all decisions are based upon who the better player is. The dolphins don't have a better CB than Surtain but they moved him, it had to be done.


Jay would have taken a reduced paycut to start here in Miami. It doesnt matter what you invest in a player, if you have someone better on the roster you play him. See Vernon Carey for example. We invested a 1st in him but StClair was playing better than Vernon last year. Vernon cost more but you play the best players. When you have a new regime coming in, Saban doesnt care if they gave up a 2nd for him. Saban is going to play the best players. Jay is 33 and Saban saw no future for him in Miami because he is a career backup, not a starter. Wether that is true of AJ we dont know yet. AJ is still a questionmark wether he is a starter but Jay has his years here and we all knew he wasnt a starter.

Although neither are ideal situations, when it comes to your starting QB, I would take a "maybe" over a "hell no" anyday. :lol:

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:05 PM
and about 30 three and outs in all 3 games but whatever.. you can go on thinking the D was the problem if it makes you feel better. I will sleep well knowing Jay isnt a Fin :D your nightmares will begin if he has to see time on the field.

Box score of Denver game in Jan '99(38-3 den), it was 14-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1998-post-div-mia-den

Jax in Jan '00, it was 24-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1999-post-div-mia-jac

Oak in Jan'01, 10-0 in 1st, 20-0 at half:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2000-post-div-mia-oak



Yeah it was all the O's fault :rolleyes:

Philter25
05-06-2005, 04:06 PM
How did you do w/o him? Outside of last year which Marino in his prime couldn't have won games w/ go check the dolphins record w/ and w/o Jay from '00-'03 and you'll see a big difference.
:lol: Thats cause we had even WORSE backups than him. Thats not saying much for Jay.... lol.... everyteam should do worse without their "starting QB".... or should I say "backup QB starting."

Thats not a testiment to Jay that we had a better record with him. Would you rather have Fiedler and 3 turnovers or Ray Lucas with 7. Its pretty much like me asking you if you want a bucket of $hit, or a dumptruck of $hit. :lol:

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:06 PM
No player wins a lot of games, teams win games. I hated that excuse when Fiedler huggers would bring up his record. The MIAMI TEAMS won those games, not Jay. Look at his personal numbers! I dont care about his record, he was on a good team and put up horrible numbers. Now that was part Wanny's fault also for having a vanilla offense, but mechanically the guy is a career backup and he should be a good backup for you guys. I would be happy to get him, he is a drug free, big ear floppin ex-NFL starter who has game experience. Just make sure Curtis Martin stretches really well when Penny gets hurt because hes going to have a 30+ carry day.I agree. Everyone will soon find out that Mularkey is one hell of a head coach.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:07 PM
Jay would have taken a reduced paycut to start here in Miami.

No he wouldn't have, Jay wanted out before last year but the dolphins wouldn't release him.


solid starter? Fielder sucks, when you average more INTs in a season then you do TDs and when your best game is gaining 200 yards then your a back-up failing to be a starter, the D gave Fiedlier all of his W's all he needed to do was not throw the game away and he couldn't even do that

Stats aren't everything, check the W-L record w/ and w/o Jay from '00-'03.

S2TheEvo
05-06-2005, 04:08 PM
:couch: ...

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:08 PM
Box score of Denver game in Jan '99(38-3 den), it was 14-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1998-post-div-mia-den

Jax in Jan '00, it was 24-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1999-post-div-mia-jac

Oak in Jan'01, 10-0 in 1st, 20-0 at half:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2000-post-div-mia-oak

Yeah it was all the O's fault :rolleyes:Good point, however defense wins championships but to get there you need an O. Mualrkey will provide that for us.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 04:08 PM
Box score of Denver game in Jan '99(38-3 den), it was 14-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1998-post-div-mia-den

Jax in Jan '00, it was 24-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1999-post-div-mia-jac

Oak in Jan'01, 10-0 in 1st, 20-0 at half:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2000-post-div-mia-oak



Yeah it was all the O's fault :rolleyes:
And those were like the 3 worst games I can remember from the past 5 years. :lol: Want me to show you 3 games where its the EXACT OPPOSITE? :lol:

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:09 PM
No he wouldn't have, Jay wanted out before last year but the dolphins wouldn't release him.



Stats aren't everything, check the W-L record w/ and w/o Jay from '00-'03.

check Wanny's game plan with and without Fiedlier and you will see the reason why

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Jay would have taken a reduced paycut to start here in Miami. It doesnt matter what you invest in a player, if you have someone better Yeah, Bellichick is still the coach to beat in this division. But now that we got rid of Drew, He'll have to guess what JP is gonna do and I'm sure Mularkey will attempt to confuse them with his trick plays.

Philter25
05-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Stats aren't everything, check the W-L record w/ and w/o Jay from '00-'03.

If you wanna go by stats, then yes I agree, Jay Fiedler was better than Ray Lucas and Scott Mitchell and Damon Huard.... thats still not sayin much. :lol:

You harp too much on stats. Once you watch this guy play you will know what Im talkin about. Stats can be very deceiving when you have a defense and a RB who can cover up your weaknesses.

and again, TEAMS win games, not players. Look at Jay's personal stats, not his W-L record. The personal stats are JAYS stats, the W-L IS THE TEAM stats.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:12 PM
2000-2003

Dolphins record w/ Jay Fiedler: 36-17(1-2 playoffs)
Dolphins record w/o Fiedler: 4-5(0-0 playoffs)


win % w/ was 68%
win % w/o was 45%

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:13 PM
:couch: ...I disagree w/ your assessment, we now have the posibility of being more creative offensively now that Drew is gone. He limited our O to the point that we became very predictable.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:14 PM
And those were like the 3 worst games I can remember from the past 5 years. :lol: Want me to show you 3 games where its the EXACT OPPOSITE? :lol:


Those are the 3 BIGGEST games the dolphins played in the past 7 years. I don't care how dominant the D was in September of '98, then playoffs is where it matters.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:15 PM
Box score of Denver game in Jan '99(38-3 den), it was 14-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1998-post-div-mia-den

Jax in Jan '00, it was 24-0 in the 1st qtr:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/1999-post-div-mia-jac

Oak in Jan'01, 10-0 in 1st, 20-0 at half:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2000-post-div-mia-oak



Yeah it was all the O's fault :rolleyes:HAHA we had ONE rushing first down in all three games what a terrible D. Linking to those games made my point about the O thanks again.

Mike13
05-06-2005, 04:15 PM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???

Wrong, that depends on the team, was Miami an elite team when ******* took us to the playoffs? Were Denver,Seattle and St Louis elite teams last year? **** NO! A team is only elite when they make it to or past the AFC or NFC championship games. Obvoiusly if a team wins the super bowl they are elite.

Teams that make it in the playoofs are either mediocre, good, or elite.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Yeah, Bellichick is still the coach to beat in this division. But now that we got rid of Drew, He'll have to guess what JP is gonna do and I'm sure Mularkey will attempt to confuse them with his trick plays.
LOL Justa sorry to derail the thread I cant wait I love the coaches in our division.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:17 PM
HAHA we had ONE rushing first down in all three games what a terrible D. Linking to those games made my point about the O thanks again.

The games were over before they started, Miami was down 14-0, 24-0 and 10-0 in the FIRST QTRS of the 3 games.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:17 PM
LOL Justa sorry to derail the thread I cant wait I love the coaches in our division.

I apologize too but this other debate has taken on a life of it's own.

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:17 PM
The games were over before they started, Miami was down 14-0, 24-0 and 10-0 in the FIRST QTRS of the 3 games.

so? what are you trying to prove?

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:18 PM
so? what are you trying to prove?

That the D was the main reason for the L's, they didn;t give the O's a chance to do anything before they were already being blown out.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:18 PM
Those are the 3 BIGGEST games the dolphins played in the past 7 years. I don't care how dominant the D was in September of '98, then playoffs is where it matters.Mularkey will make this O just as explossive as our 01 team. Moulds= himself. Evans=Price and Parrish=Reed and McGahee is better than Henry. :up:

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:20 PM
The games were over before they started, Miami was down 14-0, 24-0 and 10-0 in the FIRST QTRS of the 3 games.
come on dude seriously ONE rushing first down in 12 quarters?!?!?!?!? the offense gave the defenses more points (14) then they scored (10) I dont care if the ravens D and the Steel Curtain had a baby they coudnt win with that offensive production.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:21 PM
I cant wait I love the coaches in our division.
Alright, you are now going :topic:

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:23 PM
That the D was the main reason for the L's, they didn;t give the O's a chance to do anything before they were already being blown out.

the D had most of the talent on the whole team, the reason they couldn't hold for entire games was because Wanny is a dumb@$$ and tried to win with ball control offense and then with great D. The problem with that is that the D gets tired when they are on the field for most of the game

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:26 PM
Mularkey will make this O just as explossive as our 01 team. Moulds= himself. Evans=Price and Parrish=Reed and McGahee is better than Henry. :up:

Your 3-13 '01 team?

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:27 PM
I apologize too but this other debate has taken on a life of it's own.Ah so you want to talk smack now huh?

:monkeyr: :dolphin: :monkeyl:

Take that!!! How do you like that now?


:goodnight

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Your 3-13 '01 team?
Ouch Justa :lol:

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:28 PM
come on dude seriously ONE rushing first down in 12 quarters?!?!?!?!? the offense gave the defenses more points (14) then they scored (10) I dont care if the ravens D and the Steel Curtain had a baby they coudnt win with that offensive production.


The O had no chance, they were down big early and had to abandon the ground game. Did the O give up a 90 yard TD run to Fred Taylor???


the D had most of the talent on the whole team, the reason they couldn't hold for entire games was because Wanny is a dumb@$$ and tried to win with ball control offense and then with great D.

You do realize that in 2 of those 3 games(the 2 bigger blowouts) Jimmy Johnson was the HC and not Wannstedt?

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Ah so you want to talk smack now huh?

:monkeyr: :dolphin: :monkeyl:

Take that!!! How do you like that now?


:goodnight

I'm not talking smack I'm just wondering why you would bring up your '01 team?

Mike13
05-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Honestly, as good as Pennington was or CAN BE, his injuries are what kills him. They guy CANT STAY HEALTHY. You can be a pro bowl QB, but when you are watching 3-4 games a season from the bench, that doesnt do anything for the team.

I would take a healthy good QB over an injured plagued VERY good QB any day of the week.

With that said, Jay Fiedler sucks and im really glad he is on the Jets cause when Penny gets hurt for his 3-4 games this year, Fiedler comes in. I just hope you guys have us on the schedule when Penny gets hurt.

And when that happens Jets fans will be knocking on Vinny's door.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Your 3-13 '01 team?
:rtfm:

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:29 PM
the Bills could be extremely good but the season rides on Losman

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:30 PM
And when that happens Jets fans will be knocking on Vinny's door.

and Vinny is still better than AJ :lol:


the Bills could be extremely good but the season rides on Losman

I agree.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:30 PM
Ouch Justa :lol: :0wned:

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:31 PM
the Bills could be extremely good but the season rides on Losman :billsbite

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:31 PM
The O had no chance, they were down big early and had to abandon the ground game. Did the O give up a 90 yard TD run to Fred Taylor???



You do realize that in 2 of those 3 games(the 2 bigger blowouts) Jimmy Johnson was the HC and not Wannstedt?

it doesn't matter I'm not talking about when Jimmy was here. Dan Marino still played when Johnson was here and we were debating Fiedlier who was Wanny's pet

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:33 PM
:billsbite

don't get too excited I expect Losman to be overwhelmed this year

Mike13
05-06-2005, 04:33 PM
Chad had 2 freak injuries, if it happens again then I'll think it's a Chris Chandler type situation where he can't stay healthy but they were fluky injuries and Fiedler is an excellent backup. You guys forget he led you to the playoffs twice, to your last playoff win, to your last div title and when he got hurt nin '02 you collapsed. He's not nearly as bad as you guys make him out to be.

Congratualations! You have reached the first step in admitting your team sucks...... Denial

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:36 PM
it doesn't matter I'm not talking about when Jimmy was here. Dan Marino still played when Johnson was here and we were debating Fiedlier who was Wanny's pet


This was YOUR quote which I responded to:

"the D had most of the talent on the whole team, the reason they couldn't hold for entire games was because Wanny is a dumb@$$ and tried to win with ball control offense and then with great D. "

The 3 games I brought up Jimmy was the coach in TWO of them(the 38-3 Den loss and the 62-7 Jax loss).

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:36 PM
the teams in this divison with the exception of the Pats all have QB questions and with the Jets it is whether Chad can stay healthly or not

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:36 PM
Congratualations! You have reached the first step in admitting your team sucks...... Denial

You are just jealous b/c our 3rd string QB, Brooks Bollinger, is better than your starter :lol:

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:37 PM
This was YOUR quote which I responded to:

"the D had most of the talent on the whole team, the reason they couldn't hold for entire games was because Wanny is a dumb@$$ and tried to win with ball control offense and then with great D. "

The 3 games I brought up Jimmy was the coach in TWO of them(the 38-3 Den loss and the 62-7 Jax loss).

your point is? I was talking about the Wanny, Fiedlier ERA

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:37 PM
don't get too excited I expect Losman to be overwhelmed this yearthanks for that prediction.

The last time you made a prediction that the fins could go undefeated last year..... The opposite happened.

Back to the topic of the thread(see title) ....so who's better AJ or Fiedler?

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:39 PM
thanks for that prediction.

The last time you made a prediction that the fins could go undefeated last year..... The opposite happened.

Back to the topic of the thread(see title) ....so who's better AJ or Fiedler?

In my opinion A.J. is because I feel that he has the better arm but the only way to find out is for this season to happen and for the o-line to give him enough time to throw but I don't like either of them personnally

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:40 PM
In my opinion A.J. is because I feel that he has the better arm but the only way to find out is for this season to happen and for the o-line to give him enough time to throw but I don't like either of them personnally:topic:

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:41 PM
your point is? I was talking about the Wanny, Fiedlier ERA


We have been talking about the dolphin D of the recent past and that extends back to the late 90s, the 3 games we have been discussing are from '98-'00 so they were from JJ and Wanny's years. Wanny actually did a BETTER job than JJ. JJ left Wanny a team w/ a 62-7 loss and no RB and no Marino and Dave led Miami to 11 wins and a div title.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:42 PM
The O had no chance, they were down big early and had to abandon the ground game. Did the O give up a 90 yard TD run to Fred Taylor??? ( I gave you the jag game now please dont mention it again :mad: )You do realize that in 2 of those 3 games(the 2 bigger blowouts) Jimmy Johnson was the HC and not Wannstedt?
Now go back and look at the stats and even though a box score only tells half of it the amount of 3 and outs (wish I knew exact number) and turnovers (7) bordered on comical..where those games shining examples of how to play D no.. abandoned the running game ?? 51 rushes for 74 yards we averaged 17 rushing attempts for 1.4 yards! cmon dude I get that the D didnt step-up but really enough of trying to make them the scape-goat for the losses.

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:43 PM
Now go back and look at the stats and even though a box score only tells half of it the amount of 3 and outs (wish I knew exact number) and turnovers (7) bordered on comical..where those games shining examples of how to play D no.. abandoned the running game ?? 51 rushes for 74 yards we averaged 17 rushing attempts for 1.4 yards! cmon dude I get that the D didnt step-up but really enough of trying to make them the scape-goat for the losses.

I never said the O was great, sure they take some blame but the D was supposed to be great and they never allowed the team to even be in a game by the end of the 1st qtr. The D folded like they always did in Dec and jan.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:44 PM
Five stars? Damn, I knew if I started a Fiedler vs. Feely thread it would generate tons of responses.


I ROCK!!!!

nyjunc
05-06-2005, 04:44 PM
It's been a great discussion. I have to go now, I'll check back later on. Take care guys.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:46 PM
I never said the O was great, sure they take some blame but the D was supposed to be great and they never allowed the team to even be in a game by the end of the 1st qtr. The D folded like they always did in Dec and jan.
cant you at least give me pathetic?? cmon :wink:

Dubfire
05-06-2005, 04:46 PM
Under Herm the Jets have been to the playoffs 3 of 4 years, the div rd 2 of those 3 years, and won an AFC East title(the only team besides the Pats in that span). How is that mediocre? Mediocre is finishing around .500 evry year and missing the playoffs, the Bills have been medicore the past few years. The Jets have been one of the better teams in the conference.

I agree. I dont think the Jets have been mediocre at all the past 3 or 4 years. They've been unfortunate and seemingly on the cusp of breaking through.

nick1
05-06-2005, 04:46 PM
:topic:


your asked me about AJ and Fiedlier :confused: thats not off topic :fire:

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:47 PM
I agree. I dont think the Jets have been mediocre at all the past 3 or 4 years. They've been unfortunate and seemingly on the cusp of breaking through.
I prefer "chokers" to "unfortunate" but who am I to nit-pick.

Dubfire
05-06-2005, 04:48 PM
Depends on how you define mediocrity. IMO ,anytime you just barely makeplayoffs, youre mediocre.

Actually the bills have been less than mediocre IMO since the Kelly era.

That can be said, but you have to look at the circumstances. I agree with a lot what you're saying, but in the Jets case, they have not been mediocre. Now the Dolphins have been. We've backed into the Playoffs many years now and got spanked. The Jets have been in everyone of their Playoff games.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:48 PM
It's been a great discussion. I have to go now, I'll check back later on. Take care guys.I hope Lucas beats out Fiedler and Chad at training camp.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:49 PM
I hope Lucas beats out Fiedler and Chad at training camp. :lol:

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:49 PM
your asked me about AJ and Fiedlier :confused: thats not off topic :fire:Read the title of the thread :mad: But Fiedler has had more experience though. I say he's better than AJ.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Read the title of the thread :mad: But Fiedler has had more experience though. I say he's better than AJ.
Blasphemy!!!!!!!!

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:51 PM
Blasphemy!!!!!!!!Oooooooh big words. :shakeno:

Mike13
05-06-2005, 04:53 PM
[QUOTE=nyjunc]and Vinny is still better than AJ :lol:

Thats why he carried the jets all the way to 6 - 10 oh and by the way if

Pennington is a ''great QB'' why couldn't he at least win when he was healthy that season??????????????

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 04:55 PM
Oooooooh big words. :shakeno:Sorry Justa how bout "No Way!"

Mike13
05-06-2005, 04:55 PM
You are just jealous b/c our 3rd string QB, Brooks Bollinger, is better than your starter :lol:

who the **** is that?????????????

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:58 PM
Sorry Justa how bout "No Way!" no way what?

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 04:58 PM
who the **** is that?????????????Mel Brooks' son .

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 05:02 PM
no way what? :smackhead

FlyFishingKing
05-06-2005, 05:12 PM
Anytime you MAKE the playoffs your an ELITE team, not MEDIOCRE. Where do you get your thought process from???

Some teams back into the playoffs! They are Not ELITE to teams who get a bye.....IMO

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 05:35 PM
:smackheadyou might want to stop doing that to yourself. It's a new season.

mbsinmisc
05-06-2005, 06:42 PM
You cannot question Bellichick's success over the past 4 years, BUT... losing both coordinators, and taking on the role of OC is a lot to handle. I wonder if all of the genius talk has gone to his head.

Zeke0123
05-06-2005, 07:20 PM
You cannot question Bellichick's success over the past 4 years, BUT... losing both coordinators, and taking on the role of OC is a lot to handle. I wonder if all of the genius talk has gone to his head.have you noticed Bellichick's Mallet is HUGE! he should be able to handle all that info.

BBsuck
05-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Leave it to a Bills fan to start a thread that he KNEW would start an argument.

Please move this off the main board into smack down!!! Pleazzzzz!!

The Bills have had a 3 year plan to get to the playoffs for 6 years now, It doesnt matter what coach you guys have, your terrible O-Line and a true rookie QB(Losman) are not getting you to the playoffs in this division period!!:shakeno:

FinzManiac
05-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Ok if your argument is true than CLASSIFY the "Mediocre" RAVENS Super Bowl TEAM. They were 10-6 right????

Just to clarify...the Ravens were 12 - 4 that year behind the first place Titans who went 13 - 3. Baltimore was 5 - 4 after scoring only FG's for 5 straight games. Then they went on to Win every game the rest of the year. A Wild Card SB Champion.

I know..I live in Baltimore...Ravens fever was inescapable...

Anyway just wanted to clarify...

DeathStar
05-06-2005, 08:10 PM
jets offense will be better this year. cause they dumped that conservative hackett bum and got a new one.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 08:44 PM
Leave it to a Bills fan to start a thread that he KNEW would start an argument.

Please move this off the main board into smack down!!! Pleazzzzz!!

The Bills have had a 3 year plan to get to the playoffs for 6 years now, It doesnt matter what coach you guys have, your terrible O-Line and a true rookie QB(Losman) are not getting you to the playoffs in this division period!!:shakeno:what? :crazy: Nothing but mostly healthy football discussion. Seems to me you're the only one talking smack.

Quelonio
05-06-2005, 09:14 PM
Ehem, just to get back to the matter we where discussing, I do not want to take anything away from belichick but he seems to be starting to eat into his own hype, Kind of like buddy Ryan was. He is a heck of a coach, but what makes him think that he can run the offense... Few people can run a team like that, with total control on offense and on defense, Belichick himself once said that what went bad in Cleveland was that he was not relying on his coordinators and he was trying to do it all, he is doing it again, he has believed that he is better than Lombardi or anyone to coach the game. And I feel that will necessarily end up bringing him down.

sbh1602
05-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Ehem, just to get back to the matter we where discussing, I do not want to take anything away from belichick but he seems to be starting to eat into his own hype, Kind of like buddy Ryan was. He is a heck of a coach, but what makes him think that he can run the offense... Few people can run a team like that, with total control on offense and on defense, Belichick himself once said that what went bad in Cleveland was that he was not relying on his coordinators and he was trying to do it all, he is doing it again, he has believed that he is better than Lombardi or anyone to coach the game. And I feel that will necessarily end up bringing him down.

Could be. But Ryan was a special case - I've never seen anyone so overconfident on his coaching prowess...

I don't believe Belichick feels he can do it all himself... maybe he believes the ACs are groomed enough to take over as Coordinators...

And, I'd put more faith in Mularkey (with all of the Bills deficiencies) than in Edwards. Anyday of the week, but specially on Sundays.

Justasportsfan
05-06-2005, 09:27 PM
Could be. But Ryan was a special case - I've never seen anyone so overconfident on his coaching prowess...
No I know why he punched Gilbride. Too bad he didn't hit the target well.

Mike13
05-06-2005, 09:48 PM
You cannot question Bellichick's success over the past 4 years, BUT... losing both coordinators, and taking on the role of OC is a lot to handle. I wonder if all of the genius talk has gone to his head.

Bellichick has developed quite the ego, he should have tryed to get linnehan when he had the chance or he could have tryed to get a good OC from a college
team. Well,when the season starts we will see how much of a genius Bellichick is.

Maybe Saban will be considered a ''genius'' eventually, after all he is a Bellichick disciple.

Dbergan
05-06-2005, 09:56 PM
I think the coaches rank, right now, about like this:

1) BB- Until proven otherwise he is THE coach to beat, period.
2) Mularkey- Starting to show great upside and has his rookie year under his belt
3) Edwards- Great motivator but not a great coach on Sunday
4) Saban-Unknown and unproven

I think Saban could go right to the top of the heap if he shows he can handle the pro game. Regardless, he will most likely move above Edwards by the end of next season as he gets his rookie season under his belt.

tay0365
05-06-2005, 09:58 PM
NFC east is pretty tough now too


No way, The Giants have a ways to go, the Cowboys still stink bigtime (No matter what kind of a draft they had, or how overrated their Head coach is), and the redskins will need at least another 1 more year, before Gibb brings them back. Only the Eagle can be considered a good team.

tay0365
05-06-2005, 10:00 PM
So Wanny's ran an elite team? like I said, it depends on you definition of mediocre or you standards.

Well, not an elite team, but his teams did win 10 games of better in all his years coaching, except for his last year.....imagine if in those years Miami's HC was actually good at what he did.

Mike13
05-06-2005, 10:05 PM
No way, The Giants have a ways to go, the Cowboys still stink bigtime (No matter what kind of a draft they had, or how overrated their Head coach is), and the redskins will need at least another 1 more year, before Gibb brings them back. Only the Eagle can be considered a good team.

You think Parcells is overrated? he is a damn good coach, he is probably the best coach in that division.

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 06:41 AM
I prefer "chokers" to "unfortunate" but who am I to nit-pick.

Chokers are those that need 1 win in the last 2 games to win the division then havea double digit lead in the last game w/ 2 mins to play and lsoe. That's what chokers are :lol:


Thats why he carried the jets all thw way to 6 - 10 oh and by the way

if Pennington is a ''great QB'' why couldn't he at least win when he was healthy that season??????????????

We had alot mroe problems than QB that year. Our D was the worst in the league and our O nevr had a shot. Chad came back and we were playing well until teams caught on that he only had 1 weapon to throw to and they took that away. Coming off an injury which sidelined him half the year he played pretty well when he came back and when the hottest team in the league came to NY to play the Jets(the titans who had won 6 straight) Chad led the Jets to victory.


who the **** is that?????????????

Exactly and he's still better than AJ :lol:


I think the coaches rank, right now, about like this:

1) BB- Until proven otherwise he is THE coach to beat, period.
2) Mularkey- Starting to show great upside and has his rookie year under his belt
3) Edwards- Great motivator but not a great coach on Sunday
4) Saban-Unknown and unproven


How can you possibly rank Mularkey ahead of Herm?

Dbergan
05-07-2005, 07:00 AM
How can you possibly rank Mularkey ahead of Herm?


Simple....I think Herm has great players but is a OK coach. I think Mularkey has good players and is a great coach. JMHO

Saban,,well...he has good players and the jury is still out on if he is a good or great coach. My money is on him being great....but only time will tell.

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 07:30 AM
Simple....I think Herm has great players but is a OK coach. I think Mularkey has good players and is a great coach. JMHO

Saban,,well...he has good players and the jury is still out on if he is a good or great coach. My money is on him being great....but only time will tell.


Mularkey doesn't have good players? Herm took over a franchise that had missed the playoffs in 12 of the previous 14 years(including the 2 before he showed up) and had 1 div title since the merger and Herm has made the playofs 3 of 4 years and won an AFC East Title and he has done it w/ different casts each time. After '01 we were in cap hell and lost key vets like Aaron Glenn, Marcus Coleman and Ryan Young and it was Vinny's last year of starting. After '02 we lost the 4 guys to Wash plus a bunch of others then we completely re-tooled the D last year and he led us again. Herm has done an outstanding job and he is very underrated.

Dbergan
05-07-2005, 07:39 AM
Mularkey doesn't have good players? Herm took over a franchise that had missed the playoffs in 12 of the previous 14 years(including the 2 before he showed up) and had 1 div title since the merger and Herm has made the playofs 3 of 4 years and won an AFC East Title and he has done it w/ different casts each time. After '01 we were in cap hell and lost key vets like Aaron Glenn, Marcus Coleman and Ryan Young and it was Vinny's last year of starting. After '02 we lost the 4 guys to Wash plus a bunch of others then we completely re-tooled the D last year and he led us again. Herm has done an outstanding job and he is very underrated.


LOL....Not knocking your coach dude...just stating that I think Mularkey is a bit better of an X's and O'd type then Herm. Not taking anything away from Herm's ability to motivate or anything...I just think that the Jets have great players and an OK coach. The bills have good players...but a coach that might be great. Time will tell w/ him though.....

Having said the above..I still think that Nick will exceed expectations and put us in the same class as BB...... this is something that no other ACFE team can claim right now. :tongue:

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 07:42 AM
LOL....Not knocking your coach dude...just stating that I think Mularkey is a bit better of an X's and O'd type then Herm. Not taking anything away from Herm's ability to motivate or anything...I just think that the Jets have great players and an OK coach. The bills have good players...but a coach that might be great. Time will tell w/ him though.....

Having said the above..I still think that Nick will exceed expectations and put us in the same class as BB...... this is something that no other ACFE team can claim right now. :tongue:

Whether you think Mularkey will be better is one thing but as of now he isn't. What did he prove last yar to make you think he's better? he had a team w/ a big time D, great STs, a big time running game, excellent WRs and they still couldn't make the playoffs while Herm had his starting QB mis 3 games(and quincy crater play for 3 games) then play the rest of the year w/ Chad playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder and we also played w/o our best defensive player the last 6 weeks.

DeathStar
05-07-2005, 07:42 AM
fielder sucks. i can't wait until week 2 when he throws TD passes to OUR team for once in his damn life.

finfan54
05-07-2005, 07:44 AM
We wont just beat the Pats because Saban knows BB, but also because the Pats have lost some key people and if teddy bruschi does not make it back, And i do not think it wise to come back from such a problem (i mean you have 3 super bowl rings, whats the point now that your life is on the line).
Andrussi
Bruschi
Ty Law
The WR (cant remember his name)
and others

Too much to do anything this year, but they could be back but Saban will make BB's life harder no doubt. BB's sytem is Sabans system. Thats why the man talked to Saban every other week about strategy. OUch!

stan marino
05-07-2005, 09:25 AM
IMO the Pats weakness this year wont be players(they played most of last year without their top two corners which is tough to do imagine us without both Madison, and Surtain last year) I think their gameplanning/playcalling will suffer this year without their big name co-ordinators. They still are the team to beat though.

Mike13
05-07-2005, 09:38 AM
fielder sucks. i can't wait until week 2 when he throws TD passes to OUR team for once in his damn life.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

nyjunc
05-07-2005, 10:18 AM
fielder sucks. i can't wait until week 2 when he throws TD passes to OUR team for once in his damn life.


If he's playing in Week 2 it will be b/c it's another blowout like last year on Mon Night- you are right he will play in Week 2 :D


By the way:

2000-2003

Dolphins record w/ Jay Fiedler: 36-17(1-2 playoffs)
Dolphins record w/o Fiedler: 4-5(0-0 playoffs)


win % w/ was 68%
win % w/o was 45%

eltos_lightfoot
05-07-2005, 11:48 AM
Alright, you are now going :topic:


OMG! You are killing me in this thread, Justa!

I agree with everything you said in your initial thread. I really think the best coaches even as soon as next season will (top to bottom) be in this division. All are bright, and have a plan. Well, except for the Jets, but that is not the fault of the coach, he is just a coach for them, he has no final say...Their organization is different.

I can't wait to see the brawl be back to its late 90's form, where we were all duking it out.
:D

Mike13
05-07-2005, 12:01 PM
If he's playing in Week 2 it will be b/c it's another blowout like last year on Mon Night- you are right he will play in Week 2 :D


By the way:

2000-2003

Dolphins record w/ Jay Fiedler: 36-17(1-2 playoffs)
Dolphins record w/o Fiedler: 4-5(0-0 playoffs)


win % w/ was 68%
win % w/o was 45%

Let me get this striaght, you would rather have Rabbi Jay stating in week 2 instead of Pennington ordo you have a feeling Chad's gonna get hurt at the start of the season? He might get injured early on since he is comming off of surgery.

Mike13
05-07-2005, 02:50 PM
IMO Mike Mularkey isnt as great as some of you pointed out earlier. He is a decent head coach(He would make a good OC) and just to clarify it was Willis Mcgahee who salvaged Buffalo's season, not Mularkey.l

BBsuck
05-07-2005, 03:19 PM
Chokers are those that need 1 win in the last 2 games to win the division then havea double digit lead in the last game w/ 2 mins to play and lsoe. That's what chokers are :lol:


What would you call the ones who miss field goals late in the game to continue on to the championship game..Swallowers.....:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Justasportsfan
05-07-2005, 05:29 PM
OMG! You are killing me in this thread, Justa!

I agree with everything you said in your initial thread. I really think the best coaches even as soon as next season will (top to bottom) be in this division. All are bright, and have a plan. Well, except for the Jets, but that is not the fault of the coach, he is just a coach for them, he has no final say...Their organization is different.

I can't wait to see the brawl be back to its late 90's form, where we were all duking it out.
:DI believe this thread is about Fiedler vs. Feely. Get w/ the program :mad:

eltos_lightfoot
05-07-2005, 07:32 PM
I believe this thread is about Fiedler vs. Feely. Get w/ the program :mad:

I do apologize. I just never thought I would see the day that a Jets fan would be arguing that Feidler is a great qb anyway...

I would rather discuss coaching...sorry guys!


:eek:

Justasportsfan
05-07-2005, 09:00 PM
I do apologize. I just never thought I would see the day that a Jets fan would be arguing that Feidler is a great qb anyway...

I would rather discuss coaching...sorry guys!


:eek:Did you even read the title of the thread? :mad: This is not about Qb's but coaches :yell:

nyjunc
05-08-2005, 08:38 AM
Let me get this striaght, you would rather have Rabbi Jay stating in week 2 instead of Pennington ordo you have a feeling Chad's gonna get hurt at the start of the season? He might get injured early on since he is comming off of surgery.


Huh? I said the only way Fiedler plays in week 2 is if it is a blowout like last year on Monday Night then I jokingly said he would be playing(implying it would be a blowout).

Mike13
05-08-2005, 05:37 PM
Huh? I said the only way Fiedler plays in week 2 is if it is a blowout like last year on Monday Night then I jokingly said he would be playing(implying it would be a blowout).

O K but do u think Chad would be more injury prone since he has had the surgery?

nyjunc
05-09-2005, 06:03 AM
O K but do u think Chad would be more injury prone since he has had the surgery?

No. I think if he was hit and fell ob it the same way then it could happen again but I don't think anything less than that will re-injure it.

DeathStar
05-09-2005, 06:25 AM
why should jets fans worry if chad goes down, they have a great backup ready to lead them to victory.

nyjunc
05-09-2005, 06:25 AM
why should jets fans worry if chad goes down, they have a great backup ready to lead them to victory.

We have a backup that is better than your starter so i feel pretty good we'd still be ok even if Chad went down for a little while.

BBsuck
05-09-2005, 12:03 PM
why should jets fans worry if chad goes down, they have a great backup ready to lead them to victory.

One mans twinkie is another mans turd..Enjoy all that cream filling in your A**:wink:
Maybe you can find a Jets FELTCHER in your stands to suck out the cream for ya!!... you will not be short for volunteers..:lol:

Mike13
05-09-2005, 05:03 PM
How long do you guys think Herm will be the HC for the Jets?

nyjunc
05-10-2005, 06:29 AM
How long do you guys think Herm will be the HC for the Jets?

Hopefully a very long time, at the worst I would say at least another 2-3 years.

TerryTate
05-10-2005, 06:31 AM
We have a backup that is better than your starter so i feel pretty good we'd still be ok even if Chad went down for a little while.

I wouldnt go that far :lol:

It was a toss-up last year...both were awful

nyjunc
05-10-2005, 06:49 AM
I wouldnt go that far :lol:

It was a toss-up last year...both were awful

yeah but at least surrounded by talent(like Fiedler will be) he has proven he can guide teams to the playoffs.

BleedinGreenNC
05-10-2005, 10:42 AM
I wouldnt go that far :lol:

It was a toss-up last year...both were awfulI think that both of them were awful due to the fact that your O-line was horrible. Under a good o-line, then either of them would have done ok.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Elite teams do not fold the bigger the games get.

I beg to differ..... refer to Buffalo Bills 1990 - 1993.....

Or maybe they weren't an elite team after all? Lets see you squirm you way out of this one....

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 01:04 PM
What does this say about Dolphin and/or Jets fans?



NYJ ( under Edwards - 39W) = .609
2001: 10-6
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6
2004: 10-6

MIA ( under Wanny - 41W) = .641
2000: 11-5
2001: 11-5
2002: 9-7
2003: 10-6


Jet fans like Edwards, Dolphin fans hated Wanny......

BBsuck
05-11-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Justasportsfan
Elite teams do not fold the bigger the games get

.
I beg to differ..... refer to Buffalo Bills 1990 - 1993.....


Or maybe they weren't an elite team after all? Lets see you squirm you way out of this one....


How much bigger could they get?? would you like something to drink or are you goin to eat your words raw:roflmao: :roflmao: ....FinFan you just made my day ...Copy.. paste..save :D

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 02:06 PM
What does this say about Dolphin and/or Jets fans?



Jet fans like Edwards, Dolphin fans hated Wanny......

First off Herm is not as beloved as you might think, I am a big fan and think he's done a very good job but that is not what alot of Jet fans think, Secondly, the Jets have made 3 PO appearances in Herm's 4 years while Miami made 2 in Wanny's 4 1/2 years and the Jets are a team that has been on the rise while the past few years Miami was on the decline. That is the reason Herm is viewed positively and Wannstedt negatively. Also, dolphin fans like to think all their problems were coaching related. They think they had this incredibly talented team that should have won a SB when in reality they have had good, not great, talent and the coaching was not ther only reason they were horrible last year.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 02:38 PM
First off Herm is not as beloved as you might think, I am a big fan and think he's done a very good job but that is not what alot of Jet fans think, Secondly, the Jets have made 3 PO appearances in Herm's 4 years while Miami made 2 in Wanny's 4 1/2 years and the Jets are a team that has been on the rise while the past few years Miami was on the decline. That is the reason Herm is viewed positively and Wannstedt negatively. Also, dolphin fans like to think all their problems were coaching related. They think they had this incredibly talented team that should have won a SB when in reality they have had good, not great, talent and the coaching was not ther only reason they were horrible last year.

The playoff misses in 2002 & 2003 were by tie breakers. In fact, they were tied with the Jets and the Pats in 2002. In 2003 they were the first team in a decade to miss the playoffs at 10-6. The sad part is that the Fin's record in 2003 equalled the best record that the Jets have had in the Edwards era. It was equal to or better than any year the Jets have had in their history except three (1998, 1985, and 1968).

Take a look at Herm's first three years in NY:

2001 - 10-6
2002 - 9-7
2003 - 6-10

Dolphins fans would have been rioting in the streets.....

I agree with your assessment that many Dolphin fans overestimated the team's talent in 2000 - 2004. 2002 was their best chance and that chance was ruined due to an injury to the only other person that gets blamed as much as Wanny - Jay Fiedler.

None of this is meant as a knock against the Jets. I just don't think many Dolphin fans realize how difficult it is to win in the NFL.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 02:40 PM
First off Herm is not as beloved as you might think, I am a big fan and think he's done a very good job but that is not what alot of Jet fans think, Secondly, the Jets have made 3 PO appearances in Herm's 4 years while Miami made 2 in Wanny's 4 1/2 years and the Jets are a team that has been on the rise while the past few years Miami was on the decline. That is the reason Herm is viewed positively and Wannstedt negatively. Also, dolphin fans like to think all their problems were coaching related. They think they had this incredibly talented team that should have won a SB when in reality they have had good, not great, talent and the coaching was not ther only reason they were horrible last year.

I just noticed that the post by Philter25 had a mistake in the Jets record in 2003. It should have been 6-10 not 10-6.

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 02:46 PM
The playoff misses in 2002 & 2003 were by tie breakers.

So they don't count? They didn't win the games they had to win to make the playoffs.


The sad part is that the Fin's record in 2003 equalled the best record that the Jets have had in the Edwards era.

That's great but our '02 and '04 teams were both better than the '03 Miami team. Last I checked you guys haven't even been to the postseason since 2001(good for you b/c of all the embarrassing defeats you were getting handed to you annually).


Take a look at Herm's first three years in NY:

2001 - 10-6
2002 - 9-7
2003 - 6-10

Dolphins fans would have been rioting in the streets.....
:

So let me get this straight, the dolphin fans who haven't seen the postseason since 2001 and were 4-12 last year would be upset w/ those 3 years 2 of which we made the playoffs and once a division Champion?


In 2003 they were the first team in a decade to miss the playoffs at 10-6. The sad part is that the Fin's record in 2003 equalled the best record that the Jets have had in the Edwards era. It was equal to or better than any year the Jets have had in their history except three (1998, 1985, and 1968).

Not really b/c you didn't even make the playoffs. By the way in '68 we went 11-3 and then won the Super Bowl- was your non-playoff 10-6 season betetr than that? In '69 we were 10-4 and made the playoffs, in '85 we were 11-5 and made the playoffs, in '86 we were 10-6 and lost in 2 OTs in the div rd, in '98 we went 12-4, in '01 and '04 we went 10-6. Those were all playoff seasons and all better than going 10-6 and missing the playoffs.

Are you trying to tell me the Jets haven't been very god most of our existence? Tell me something I don't know but what I do know is we've been as good or better(in most years better) than Miami for almost a decade now.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 03:07 PM
That's great but our '02 and '04 teams were both better than the '03 Miami team.

?????

2003: Miami - 10-6

2002: Jets - 9-7
2003: Jets - 10-6




Last I checked you guys haven't even been to the postseason since 2001(good for you b/c of all the embarrassing defeats you were getting handed to you annually).

Like I tell the Bills fans, it is arbitrary to draw the line at making the playoffs but not winning it all. You cannot discount a solid 10-6 season just because they didn't make the playoffs.


So let me get this straight, the dolphin fans who haven't seen the postseason since 2001 and were 4-12 last year would be upset w/ those 3 years 2 of which we made the playoffs and once a division Champion?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

The same Dolphin fans were calling for Wanny's head after 2003. That was after 2 trips to the playoffs out of three and a division crown and no losing records. BTW, this was my point in this whole post. You seemed to have missed that.




Not really b/c you didn't even make the playoffs. By the way in '68 we went 11-3 and then won the Super Bowl- was your non-playoff 10-6 season betetr than that?

Did you miss the fact that I pointed out that 1968 was one of the years where the Jets exceeded the 10-6 record?


In '69 we were 10-4 and made the playoffs, in '85 we were 11-5 and made the playoffs, in '86 we were 10-6 and lost in 2 OTs in the div rd, in '98 we went 12-4, in '01 and '04 we went 10-6. Those were all playoff seasons and all better than going 10-6 and missing the playoffs.

10-6 is 10-6..... In fact, if a team goes 10-6 and doesn't make the playoffs, the competion must have been tougher that year and that makes the 10-6 record even more impressive.


Are you trying to tell me the Jets haven't been very god most of our existence? Tell me something I don't know but what I do know is we've been as good or better(in most years better) than Miami for almost a decade now.

Year Fins Jets
2004 4-12-0 10-6-0
2003 10-6-0 6-10-0
2002 9-7-0 9-7-0
2001 11-5-0 10-6-0
2000 11-5-0 9-7-0
1999 9-7-0 8-8-0
1998 10-6-0 12-4-0
1997 9-7-0 9-7-0
1996 8-8-0 1-15-0
1995 9-7-0 3-13-0

By my math, the Fins have had the better record 6 times in the last 10, the Jets had the better record twice, and twice they were tied.

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 03:20 PM
?????

2003: Miami - 10-6

2002: Jets - 9-7
2003: Jets - 10-6


Record alone doesn't make a team better, our 9-7 team in '[02 was only 9-7 b/c of early injuries. This team was the LAST team to go into Foxboro and win a game and that was on a Sun Night w/ the division on the line for the Pats and we beatq them up. Then we mauled 12-3 GB playing for homefiled and Indy in the playoffs before losing a tough game at Oak(I know it was a 30-10 score but it got away late, it wasn't like a 62-7 game or anything like that).


Like I tell the Bills fans, it is arbitrary to draw the line at making the playoffs but not winning it all. You cannot discount a solid 10-6 season just because they didn't make the playoffs.

Miami was eliminated w/ 2 weeks left, had they still been in it who knows of they win 1 or both of those last 2 games. When they were alive they blew it and by the way they barely squeaked by a 6-10 Jets team at home in the final game(thanks in large part to a blown 2 pt conversion call and a horrible offensive PI call).


!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

The same Dolphin fans were calling for Wanny's head after 2003. That was after 2 trips to the playoffs out of three and a division crown and no losing records. BTW, this was my point in this whole post. You seemed to have missed that.


That's b/c you MISSED the playoffs in '03 and '02 and from '97-'01 you were embarrassed in the playoffs every year.


Did you miss the fact that I pointed out that 1968 was one of the years where the Jets exceeded the 10-6 record?

Well you missed '69 when we were 10-4.


10-6 is 10-6..... In fact, if a team goes 10-6 and doesn't make the playoffs, the competion must have been tougher that year and that makes the 10-6 record even more impressive.

Not necessarily, the fact you were 10-6 was due in large part to the AFC East having 2 bad teams(something it hadn't had in years). The Jets in '02 that went 9-7 was more impressive than the dolphins 10-6, in '02 all 4 teams were w/in a game of each other while in '03 the Pats ran away w/ it and the Jets and Bills were bad.


By my math, the Fins have had the better record 6 times in the last 10, the Jets had the better record twice, and twice they were tied.

I said almost a decade, since Parcells came here in '97

-'97, it was close but since the Phins swept the Jets the Phins get the egde. MIA

-'98, the Jets were by far better. NYJ

-'99, I give the edge to the Jets. We battled through a ton of injuries to come back and pull w/in a game of Miami and we swept them. NYJ

-'00, Jets sweep again but Mia wins division. MIA

-'01, teams were even but Jets swept yet again so edge Jets. NYJ

-'02, same record, split games but Jets win division. NYJ

-'03, Miami was better, MIA

-'04, huge edge Jets. NYJ

NYJ-5 MIA- 3

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 03:35 PM
Record alone doesn't make a team better, our 9-7 team in '[02 was only 9-7 b/c of early injuries. This team was the LAST team to go into Foxboro and win a game and that was on a Sun Night w/ the division on the line for the Pats and we beatq them up. Then we mauled 12-3 GB playing for homefiled and Indy in the playoffs before losing a tough game at Oak(I know it was a 30-10 score but it got away late, it wasn't like a 62-7 game or anything like that).



Miami was eliminated w/ 2 weeks left, had they still been in it who knows of they win 1 or both of those last 2 games. When they were alive they blew it and by the way they barely squeaked by a 6-10 Jets team at home in the final game(thanks in large part to a blown 2 pt conversion call and a horrible offensive PI call).



That's b/c you MISSED the playoffs in '03 and '02 and from '97-'01 you were embarrassed in the playoffs every year.



Well you missed '69 when we were 10-4.



Not necessarily, the fact you were 10-6 was due in large part to the AFC East having 2 bad teams(something it hadn't had in years). The Jets in '02 that went 9-7 was more impressive than the dolphins 10-6, in '02 all 4 teams were w/in a game of each other while in '03 the Pats ran away w/ it and the Jets and Bills were bad.



I said almost a decade, since Parcells came here in '97

-'97, it was close but since the Phins swept the Jets the Phins get the egde. MIA

-'98, the Jets were by far better. NYJ

-'99, I give the edge to the Jets. We battled through a ton of injuries to come back and pull w/in a game of Miami and we swept them. NYJ

-'00, Jets sweep again but Mia wins division. MIA

-'01, teams were even but Jets swept yet again so edge Jets. NYJ

-'02, same record, split games but Jets win division. NYJ

-'03, Miami was better, MIA

-'04, huge edge Jets. NYJ

NYJ-5 MIA- 3


:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Your team in '02 was only 9-7 because of injuries. Didn't the Fins lose their starting QB and both starting WRs in the same game?

Your qualifying blowout losses in the playoffs? 30-10 is a blowout....

You are taking wins away from the Fins because they were out of the playoff race? You can't be serious.

You "give" 1999 to the Jets???? Come on, give me a break.
In 2001, the Fins had the better record but you give the nod to the Jets? :shakeno: You're killing me.... You give the nod to the Jets twice when the Fins had a better record? Reverse those two and you get:

MIA-5, NYJ-3..... Nice try.

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 03:41 PM
Your team in '02 was only 9-7 because of injuries. Didn't the Fins lose their starting QB and both starting WRs in the same game?

Miami would have been 2-3 games better as well but we stil would have won the division. Our team was decimated early on which was the main reason we started 1-4, 2-5.


Your qualifying blowout losses in the playoffs? 30-10 is a blowout....

It was 10-10 near the edn of the 3rd, it got away late. This wasn't a down 24-0 at the end of the 1st qtr like Miami against jax. We were in the game, it was a tough, hard fought game.


You are taking wins away from the Fins because they were out of the playoff race? You can't be serious.

We know how they perfrom under pressure and if they weree still in it the pressure would have been high, they might have won but I'd bet on a choke.


You "give" 1999 to the Jets???? Come on, give me a break.

We finished 1 game behind, we swept you and you needed us to beat Seattle in Wk 17 to get in then you got in and were thrashed by Jax. We were definitely better in '99.


In 2001, the Fins had the better record but you give the nod to the Jets? You're killing me.... You give the nod to the Jets twice when the Fins had a better record? Reverse those two and you get:

They were better records by a game and we SWEPT you in both years plus in '01 you git tharshed at home by Bal in the playoffs while we played a tough game AT Oak.


MIA-5, NYJ-3..... Nice try.

It's the other way around.

By the way in that same span the Jets are 11-5 against Miami and 11-3 in the last 14.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 03:48 PM
We finished 1 game behind, we swept you and you needed us to beat Seattle in Wk 17 to get in then you got in and were thrashed by Jax. We were definitely better in '99.



They were better records by a game and we SWEPT you in both years plus in '01 you git tharshed at home by Bal in the playoffs while we played a tough game AT Oak.



It's the other way around.



The Jets did have the Fins number for a few years, but I think the NFL would disagree that the Jets were better that the Fins in 1999 and 2001. Unfortunately, ALL the games count, not just the ones you win.

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 03:57 PM
The Jets did have the Fins number for a few years, but I think the NFL would disagree that the Jets were better that the Fins in 1999 and 2001. Unfortunately, ALL the games count, not just the ones you win.


I don't think so, in '99 we were one of the hottest teams in the league late in the year and a 1 game difference doesn't make Miami better. In '01 it was once again a one game difference and we once again ended our season w/ more dignity than Miami. At worst you could call those seasons even.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 04:08 PM
I don't think so, in '99 we were one of the hottest teams in the league late in the year and a 1 game difference doesn't make Miami better. In '01 it was once again a one game difference and we once again ended our season w/ more dignity than Miami. At worst you could call those seasons even.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I guess I'll have to review the NFL rules for determining the standings. I know I'll be pissed when the Fins finish ahead of the Jets, but the Jets get awarded the playoff spot because they were "hotter at the end of the year" or finished the regular season with "more dignity". :shakeno:

nyjunc
05-11-2005, 04:24 PM
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I guess I'll have to review the NFL rules for determining the standings. I know I'll be pissed when the Fins finish ahead of the Jets, but the Jets get awarded the playoff spot because they were "hotter at the end of the year" or finished the regular season with "more dignity". :shakeno:

Sometimes the better team does not make the playoffs, it was only a game difference and we swept you both years and you were thrashed in your final game while we played tough. Back in 1991 the Niners and Eagles were both 10-6 and missed the playoffs, I guess the 8-8 Jets who did make the playoffs were better than them :shakeno: Last year, do you think teams like Buf and Bal were worse than SL and Minny?

FinfanInBuffalo
05-11-2005, 04:30 PM
Sometimes the better team does not make the playoffs, it was only a game difference and we swept you both years and you were thrashed in your final game while we played tough. Back in 1991 the Niners and Eagles were both 10-6 and missed the playoffs, I guess the 8-8 Jets who did make the playoffs were better than them :shakeno: Last year, do you think teams like Buf and Bal were worse than SL and Minny?

Like I said, ALL of the games count. When determing DIVISION STANDINGS and WILDCARD seedings, it is customary for the team with the better record to "get the nod".....

In 2002 the Fins were clearly the best team in the AFC before the injury bug hit. I don't recall the NFL giving them any special consideration....

Mike13
05-11-2005, 07:25 PM
Lets get back to the subject every1, IMO BB might have a tough time handlingThe Pats offense since he is a defensive minded coach. He doesn't have experience handling the offense. He will probably take a conservative approach in calling plays, some defensive minded HCs have been conserative with offense in the past, and I wouldn't be surprised If Billichick takes a conservative approach.

nyjunc
05-12-2005, 07:51 AM
In 2002 the Fins were clearly the best team in the AFC before the injury bug hit. I don't recall the NFL giving them any special consideration....

We don;'t know that, how many years did the dolphins start out great only to fade down the stretch? They might have had the best record at the time but the swoon was soming regardless. The way they were constructed they could noy compete in big games. That core of players just always folded when the games got bigger down the stretch.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 08:30 AM
We don;'t know that, how many years did the dolphins start out great only to fade down the stretch?

Slightly less often than the Jets start the year with a slump. You sound proud that the Jets enter so many Decembers with nothing at stake other than the opportunity to screw up another early draft pick.

1983 Ken O'Brien over Dan Marino
1985 Al Toon over Jerry Rice
1990 Blair Thomas over Emmitt Smith

The Jets passed on the alltime leaders in passing yards, passing TD, receiving yards, receving TDs, rushing yards, and rushing TDs AND SELECTED BUSTS AT THE SAME POSITION!!!!!!!!!

:roflmao: :roflmao:



They might have had the best record at the time but the swoon was soming regardless. The way they were constructed they could noy compete in big games. That core of players just always folded when the games got bigger down the stretch.

:shakeno:

All this nonsense from a Jets fan... Your beloved Jets started 6-1 last yeat and then went 4-5, including 1-3 to close the regular season. Over the last two years, the Jets are 2-6 in the last 4 weeks of the regular season. Hello kettle, your black...

The Jets have a glorious tradition of losing. Their fans need to keep the smack to themselves. How ridiculous and sad at the same time.

nyjunc
05-12-2005, 08:46 AM
Slightly less often than the Jets start the year with a slump. You sound proud that the Jets enter so many Decembers with nothing at stake other than the opportunity to screw up another early draft pick.

It's been a long time since we were consistently bad, the only bad year we've had since '97 was in '03 when cap issues forced us to lose some guys and then we lost our QN for half the year.

You act like this is the 70s and the dolphins are still a premiere team.



1983 Ken O'Brien over Dan Marino
1985 Al Toon over Jerry Rice
1990 Blair Thomas over Emmitt Smith


Toon was on his way to the HOF before his career was cut short(obviously you aren't very knowledgable if you think Toon was a bust) and Jimmy Johnson said he would have taken Blair Thomas over Emmitt if he had the choice. Sometimes high draft picks don't work out like:

'95 Biller Milner
'97 Yatil Green
'98 John Avery
'99 JJ Johnson
'00 Todd Wade
'01 Jamar Fletcher

I'll cut you some slack on the last few choices and give them some time to develop.


All this nonsense from a Jets fan... Your beloved Jets started 6-1 last yeat and then went 4-5, including 1-3 to close the regular season.

We were far enough behind NE but we had things basically wrapped up and we were missing our QB then he played hurt and we were also missing our best defensive player. It wasn't like the annual Miami swoons where they blow the division, the former annual Miami swoons. They haven't been close to a div title in a few years.


Over the last two years, the Jets are 2-6 in the last 4 weeks of the regular season. Hello kettle, your black...

2 years ago we were 6-10, those #s are irrelevant. In important games we have done well unlike Miami who always loses important games.


The Jets have a glorious tradition of losing.

We used to but that's long in the past. All I know is w/ our history of losing we have the series lead over the "great" Miami Dolphins and we have just ONE less SB. The problem is Miami fans like to think they are in the class of teams like Dallas, SF and Pitt when they are far from it. The bottom line is I wasn't alive for any of the Jets or dolphin SB wins.

Oh and we are 11-3 against you in the last 14 games and we have at least been to a Championship Game in the last decade and we have more div titles than you in the last decade and we have been in the postseason 3 of the past 4 years while Miami hasn't reached the postseason(for their old annual spanking) since 2001. Stop living in the 70s and join us today.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 09:29 AM
Toon was on his way to the HOF before his career was cut short(obviously you aren't very knowledgable if you think Toon was a bust) and Jimmy Johnson said he would have taken Blair Thomas over Emmitt if he had the choice.

Al Toon HOF? :roflmao:

This can ONLY be said about the Jets:
The Jets passed on the alltime leaders in passing yards, passing TD, receiving yards, receving TDs, rushing yards, and rushing TDs AND SELECTED BUSTS AT THE SAME POSITION!!!!!!!!!

Everything else about the draft history pales in comparison!


We were far enough behind NE but we had things basically wrapped up and we were missing our QB then he played hurt and we were also missing our best defensive player. It wasn't like the annual Miami swoons where they blow the division, the former annual Miami swoons.

Do they give courses in excuse making to Jets fans?



2 years ago we were 6-10, those #s are irrelevant. In important games we have done well unlike Miami who always loses important games.

You are great at rationalization. When discussing Miami's victories near the end of 2003, you claimed they didn't matter because things were already decided.

Um, how did your season end last year? WITH A LOSS


We used to but that's long in the past.

Dude, they have 4 seasons at .500 or below in the last decade, Including one just 2 years ago. You have a serious case of selective memory.



All I know is w/ our history of losing we have the series lead over the "great" Miami Dolphins and we have just ONE less SB.

Answer this - how many losing seasons have the Jets made their fans suffer through? There has not been a single decade in the club's history where they have had more winning seasons than losing seasons. That trend tells me that you have 4 - 5 losing seasons coming the rest of this decade.


The problem is Miami fans like to think they are in the class of teams like Dallas, SF and Pitt when they are far from it.

No, the problem is that the Jets fans like to pretend that they are not like the Cardinals and the Bengals.



The bottom line is I wasn't alive for any of the Jets or dolphin SB wins.


Well that explains the ignorance. Until the Jets win another, they will just be a pathetic franchise.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 09:45 AM
Oh and we are 11-3 against you in the last 14 games and we have at least been to a Championship Game in the last decade and we have more div titles than you in the last decade and we have been in the postseason 3 of the past 4 years while Miami hasn't reached the postseason(for their old annual spanking) since 2001. .

You also have more last place finishes in the last decade.

Last 5 Years:
Miami - 45-35, 2 playoffs (should have been 4)
Jets - 44-36, 3 playoffs

Last 10 years:
Miami - 90-70, 6 playoffs (should have been 8), 2 seasons at .500 or below
Jets - 77-83, 4 playoffs, 4 seasons at .500 or below

You really should do your research. The Jets had a better record that the Fins only twice in the last decade. Get a grip.

nyjunc
05-12-2005, 09:46 AM
Al Toon HOF?

I said he was ON HIS WAY, he was one of the best WRS in the NFL for many years.


This can ONLY be said about the Jets:
The Jets passed on the alltime leaders in passing yards, passing TD, receiving yards, receving TDs, rushing yards, and rushing TDs AND SELECTED BUSTS AT THE SAME POSITION!!!!!!!!!:

They made mistakes that most teams make. Marino was a crackhead and nearly everyone passed him, Toon was a great WR and had his career cut short due to injury that wasn't the Jets fault and it wasn't the Jets fault that Blair Thomas was a bust. EVERY TEAM including the team that drafted Emmitt had Blair rated higher.




Do they give courses in excuse making to Jets fans?

The division was out of reach, it makes a HUGE difference. It bwasn't like choking away the playoffs in '03, the div in '02 and '01 like Miami has in recent years.


You are great at rationalization. When discussing Miami's victories near the end of 2003, you claimed they didn't matter because things were already decided.

Um, how did your season end last year? WITH A LOSS


Again it was irrelevant, had we won we still would have played next week in SD. Had we won the final 2 games we STILL would have played at SD the following week.


Dude, they have 4 seasons at .500 or below in the last decade, Including one just 2 years ago. You have a serious case of selective memory.

We have had ONE losing season since 1997.


No, the problem is that the Jets fans like to pretend that they are not like the Cardinals and the Bengals.

As of right now the dolphins are worse than both of those teams.


Well that explains the ignorance. Until the Jets win another, they will just be a pathetic franchise.

What will the dolphins be? You guys have just 2 more than us and it was 32 years ago.

Since 1998:

Head to Head: NYJ 11 Mia 3
div titles: NYJ 2 Mia 1
AFC Title Game Apperances: NYJ 1 Mia 0
Humiliating Playoff Losses: NYJ 0 Mia 6


Last Playoff appearance: NYJ 2004 Mia 2001
Last div title: NYJ 2002 Mia 2000
Last AFC Title Game: NYJ 1998 Mia 1992

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 12:41 PM
Since 1998:
Humiliating Playoff Losses: NYJ 0 Mia 6


Since Mia has only been in the playoffs 4 times since 1998 (exactly the same number as the Jets), I'm not sure how this is possible. More NYJ fan math?

Rationalize all you want but these losses are nothing to be proud of:

30-10
38-24
23-10

Since 1998:
Playoff records: NYJ 3-4, Mia 3-4
Reg season records: NYJ 64-48, Mia 64-48

You might also want to compare the team histories from 1990 - 1997....then again, maybe you don't ....

You keep pitching and I'll keep knocking them out of the park.....

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 12:55 PM
I said he was ON HIS WAY, he was one of the best WRS in the NFL for many years.

He had TWO seasons where he exceeded 1000 yds receiving. Pro bowl appearances - ZERO

Sure, on his way to the HOF with a ticket that he had to buy, like the rest of us.....


They made mistakes that most teams make. Marino was a crackhead and nearly everyone passed him, Toon was a great WR and had his career cut short due to injury that wasn't the Jets fault and it wasn't the Jets fault that Blair Thomas was a bust. EVERY TEAM including the team that drafted Emmitt had Blair rated higher.


You have no way of knowing who had Blair Thomas rated highly. All we know is the Jets picked an alltime bust.

Ken O'Brien over Marino? That is criminally stupid. Jets fans should get money back.

ONLY THE JETS MADE ALL THREE MISTAKES

nyjunc
05-12-2005, 02:45 PM
Since Mia has only been in the playoffs 4 times since 1998 (exactly the same number as the Jets), I'm not sure how this is possible. More NYJ fan math?

-In 1998 in the AFC Championship Game we lost 23-10, it was not a humiliation. What was a humiliation was the week before when denver beat Miami 38-3.

-In 2001 we lost at Oakland 38-24, the game was cemented away until the final 2 minutes when Chrlie Garner broke a long run and put it out of reach. A humiliation would be like the year before wehn Miami lost at Oakland 27-0.

-in 2002 we lost 30-10 but it was a 10-10 game late in the 3rd, it was broken open midway through the 4th. It wasn't like it was 24-0 like Miami at Jax a few years earlier.

Those were not humiliating losses, humiliating losses are when you lose 5 playoff games by a combined score of 164-16. THAT'S Humiliating! When the games are over by the end of the 1st qtr or by the half- THAT'S Humiliating!



You might also want to compare the team histories from 1990 - 1997....then again, maybe you don't ....

You keep pitching and I'll keep knocking them out of the park.........

:roflmao: :roflmao: Yeah you are hitting them out of the park :roflmao: :roflmao: All you are doing is ignoring facts but I used to do that when we sucked too.


He had TWO seasons where he exceeded 1000 yds receiving. Pro bowl appearances - ZERO

If by ZERO you mean 3 then you are correct. He had concussions problems for a few years which slowed him down. The man was one of the best in the game before the concussions.


You have no way of knowing who had Blair Thomas rated highly. All we know is the Jets picked an alltime bust.

Jimmy Johnson himself said had he had a choice btw the 2 he would have picked Blair Thomas. That's the man who selected Emmitt.


Ken O'Brien over Marino? That is criminally stupid. Jets fans should get money back

Obviously that was dumb but Kenny had a few great years including leading the league in passing but it quickly faded. Obviously that was the huge mistake but almost every other team made the same mistake.


ONLY THE JETS MADE ALL THREE MISTAKES

Only 1 was a mistake at the time. We can look back at every draft and figure out who made mistakes after the fact. You guys think Ronnie Brown is going to be a HOFer well we though Blair Thomas would be great too and w/ the dolphins track record of 1st rd picks in the last decade I wouldn't get those Brown jerseys made up just yet.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 04:08 PM
-In 1998 in the AFC Championship Game we lost 23-10, it was not a humiliation. What was a humiliation was the week before when denver beat Miami 38-3.

-In 2001 we lost at Oakland 38-24, the game was cemented away until the final 2 minutes when Chrlie Garner broke a long run and put it out of reach. A humiliation would be like the year before wehn Miami lost at Oakland 27-0.

-in 2002 we lost 30-10 but it was a 10-10 game late in the 3rd, it was broken open midway through the 4th. It wasn't like it was 24-0 like Miami at Jax a few years earlier.

Those were not humiliating losses, humiliating losses are when you lose 5 playoff games by a combined score of 164-16. THAT'S Humiliating! When the games are over by the end of the 1st qtr or by the half- THAT'S Humiliating!


I'm glad your happy with your losses by 2 TDs. Jets fans really don't have any other choice.



Yeah you are hitting them out of the park All you are doing is ignoring facts but I used to do that when we sucked too.

Last time I checked, these were facts:

Since 1998:
Playoff records: NYJ 3-4, Mia 3-4
Reg season records: NYJ 64-48, Mia 64-48

You cannot get any closer than that.


So are these:

You also have more last place finishes in the last decade.

Last 5 Years:
Miami - 45-35, 2 playoffs (should have been 4)
Jets - 44-36, 3 playoffs

Last 10 years:
Miami - 90-70, 6 playoffs (should have been 8), 2 seasons at .500 or below
Jets - 77-83, 4 playoffs, 4 seasons at .500 or below

The Jets had a better record that the Fins only twice in the last decade.

The Dolphins have had one horrible year. I know its is commonplace for the Jets, but Dolphin fans aren't used to this.


If by ZERO you mean 3 then you are correct. He had concussions problems for a few years which slowed him down. The man was one of the best in the game before the concussions.

Give me a break. TWO 1000 yd season out of eight......The point is that they passed on JERRY RICE. How can you not call that a mistake? Al Toon was a good WR, but Jerry 'Friggin' Rice.



Jimmy Johnson himself said had he had a choice btw the 2 he would have picked Blair Thomas. That's the man who selected Emmitt.

Quote please.



Obviously that was dumb but Kenny had a few great years including leading the league in passing but it quickly faded. Obviously that was the huge mistake but almost every other team made the same mistake.

No. Only the Jets, Pats, and Chiefs. Elway and Kelly also turned out to be HOF QBs. Nobody else selected a QB ahead of Marino.


Only 1 was a mistake at the time. We can look back at every draft and figure out who made mistakes after the fact. You guys think Ronnie Brown is going to be a HOFer well we though Blair Thomas would be great too and w/ the dolphins track record of 1st rd picks in the last decade I wouldn't get those Brown jerseys made up just yet.

You cannot escape the fact that they passed on three of the greatest offensive players of all time for three lesser players at the same position. Don't you want to cry when you think that the Jets could have had Marino, Rice, and Smith? It boggles the mind.

Face it, with the exception of 2003 (in favor of the Fins) and 2004 (in favor of the Jets), the Jets and the Fins have been pretty even over the last 7 or 8 seasons. Since 1998, their records are identical. You want to focus on 4 or 5 individual games, but overall, the facts support my argument.

nyjunc
05-12-2005, 04:24 PM
I'm glad your happy with your losses by 2 TDs. Jets fans really don't have any other choice.

I wasn't happy but I wasn't completely humiliated either.


Last time I checked, these were facts:

Since 1998:

Head to Head: NYJ 11 Mia 3
div titles: NYJ 2 Mia 1
AFC Title Game Apperances: NYJ 1 Mia 0
Humiliating Playoff Losses: NYJ 0 Mia 6


Last Playoff appearance: NYJ 2004 Mia 2001
Last div title: NYJ 2002 Mia 2000
Last AFC Title Game: NYJ 1998 Mia 1992


Since 1998:
Playoff records: NYJ 3-4, Mia 3-4
Reg season records: NYJ 64-48, Mia 64-48

You cannot get any closer than that.
:

Don't you think the 11-3 head to head results in favor of the Jets swing the tide in our favor?


The Dolphins have had one horrible year. I know its is commonplace for the Jets, but Dolphin fans aren't used to this.

it used to be commonplace but not anymore. What is commonplace now is the Jets making the playoffs and the dolphins missing the playoffs.


Give me a break. TWO 1000 yd season out of eight......The point is that they passed on JERRY RICE. How can you not call that a mistake? Al Toon was a good WR, but Jerry 'Friggin' Rice.

Jerry Rice would not have been Jerry Rice here, he would not have been nearly as good as after Toons first 4 years or so the team went downhill and we had no QBs, Rice would not be the all-time great Jerry Rice had he been here. Toon was a fine pick, it's not like we picked Lam Jones over Rice.


Quote please.

I saw it a long time ago, you'll have to give me time to dig it up but that is an absolute fact.


Face it, with the exception of 2003 (in favor of the Fins) and 2004 (in favor of the Jets), the Jets and the Fins have been pretty even over the last 7 or 8 seasons. Since 1998, their records are identical. You want to focus on 4 or 5 individual games, but overall, the facts support my argument.

That is true BUT we have been trending up and you guys down. We have dominated you winning 11 of 14 and we have been to the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years while you have missed the last 3 years.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-12-2005, 04:32 PM
Jerry Rice would not have been Jerry Rice here, he would not have been nearly as good as after Toons first 4 years or so the team went downhill and we had no QBs, Rice would not be the all-time great Jerry Rice had he been here. Toon was a fine pick, it's not like we picked Lam Jones over Rice.

No, you picked Lam Jones over Art Monk :roflmao:

I realize you set that one up for me, thanks.



That is true BUT we have been trending up and you guys down. We have dominated you winning 11 of 14 and we have been to the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years while you have missed the last 3 years.

You have recent history on your side and have had our number in head to head for way too long. I cannot deny that. Of course, it could all change in a season.

BTW, you seem like a pretty level headed Jets fan. Didn't mean for this to turn to smack, but with Fins and Jets it just seems to happen....

nyjunc
05-13-2005, 06:22 AM
No, you picked Lam Jones over Art Monk

We got both since signed Art 14 years later :D


BTW, you seem like a pretty level headed Jets fan. Didn't mean for this to turn to smack, but with Fins and Jets it just seems to happen....

It's all in fun.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-13-2005, 10:25 AM
We got both since signed Art 14 years later :D

:lol:



It's all in fun.

:up:

I look forward to future debates with someone who knows their stuff:

Justasportsfan
05-13-2005, 11:03 AM
I beg to differ..... refer to Buffalo Bills 1990 - 1993.....

Or maybe they weren't an elite team after all? Lets see you squirm you way out of this one....they were elite but they did get beat by better teams.

Oaklandraider
05-13-2005, 12:30 PM
I really like herm edwards he seems like a stand up guy even if he is the coach for the jets someone I would not mind coaching for my team.

FinfanInBuffalo
05-13-2005, 02:14 PM
they were elite but they did get beat by better teams.

Hmmm.....

So when Miami losses a playoff game by a wide margin, they folded. When the Bills lose the SB by a wide margin, they simply got beat by a better team?

A little biased?

The Bills folded like a cheap suit.......especially the last three SBs.

Justasportsfan
05-13-2005, 04:53 PM
Hmmm.....

So when Miami losses a playoff game by a wide margin, they folded. .when did I say that?

BleedinGreenNC
05-14-2005, 01:24 PM
they were elite but they did get beat by better teams.I agree with that, they were definitely an elite team, but the fact that the Cowboys, Giants and Skins all had great teams, that took away from the fact that the Bills had a great team.