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NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 02:55 PM
With all the same types of threads going around (Ricky, Fins vs. Bills, etc.), I thought it would be nice to open the bashing to the entire NFL, rather than limit it to just the AFC East. :)

What player(s) do you feel is(are) washed up, and should just call it quits?

I'll throw out a few big names:


Brett Favre
Jerry Rice
Rice was an easy one, but I'll probably take some flack for saying Favre. First off, I'd like to say that Favre was an EXCELLENT QB... but I think his time has passed. He still has talent, and has decent games once in a while, but he's been making more and more mistakes in the past few years. I mean, seriously, how many playoff games in a row have ended with a Favre INT?

Anyway, that's my opinion. Feel free to throw the dirt, fellas!

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 02:57 PM
bledsoe

FuturePhin
05-27-2005, 02:58 PM
Gannon

Agua
05-27-2005, 02:58 PM
Is Testicles still playing? He's been done for 3+ years.

PhillyDolfan
05-27-2005, 02:59 PM
I sort of agree about Favre......for some reason the media has a HUGE man crush on him and he somehow he gets a free pass for all his mistakes. I don't know if it's time to retire ....But his window is closing QUICKLY

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 02:59 PM
amani toomer

Agua
05-27-2005, 02:59 PM
Flutie

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:00 PM
Is Testicles still playing? He's been done for 3+ years.

Oh yeah! I forgot all about TesticleVertebrae! Good call, Agua!

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:00 PM
marcelus wiley

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:01 PM
Flutie

As a starter, I agree, but I really like him in his backup role. He was pretty good with the Chargers last year.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:02 PM
I sort of agree about Favre......for some reason the media has a HUGE man crush on him and he somehow he gets a free pass for all his mistakes. I don't know if it's time to retire ....But his window is closing QUICKLY

hahaha... I hear that! They do act as if there is some sort of gay love affair! hahaha

nyjunc
05-27-2005, 03:03 PM
bledsoe


Bledsoe has been washed up since last Century.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:03 PM
bledsoe

Definitely. He needs a wall of steel around him to be effective.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:04 PM
brunell

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:04 PM
Gannon

I don't understand that guy... he was amazing one year, and just bit the big one the next! What the heck happened?!?

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:05 PM
this is judgment year for Mcnair imo.

nyjunc
05-27-2005, 03:05 PM
I don't understand that guy... he was amazing one year, and just bit the big one the next! What the heck happened?!?

He got hurt in '03 and hasn't been the same since.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:06 PM
warren sapp

Scrap
05-27-2005, 03:09 PM
Warner

popularwar
05-27-2005, 03:09 PM
Eddie George. I thought someone would have said it by now.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:09 PM
kyle turley

nyjunc
05-27-2005, 03:10 PM
Junior Seau(missing last year was the final nail, could becme decent again b/c of his work ethic but I wouldn't bet on it)
Mark Brunell
jake Plummer(he never was a good player so is he really washed up?)
Warren Sapp
Sam Cowart
Keyshawn Johnson
Kurt Warner

thedayafter
05-27-2005, 03:11 PM
We should all be so lucky to ..."washed up" and still playing in the NFL....

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:12 PM
i wouldnt bet against seau.

nyjunc
05-27-2005, 03:13 PM
Eddie George. I thought someone would have said it by now.
Is he even on a roster? I don't think he's playing this year.

Scrap
05-27-2005, 03:13 PM
Tom Brady

























Hey, it's nice to dream.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:13 PM
this is judgment year for Mcnair imo.

That's a good one! I was wondering why they didn't go with Volek earlier last year.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:14 PM
charlie garner

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:15 PM
Warner

I thought about that one when someone brought up Bledsoe. We'll find out for sure this year!

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:16 PM
warren sapp

I really expected him to make more of a difference on the Raiders' D last year. Between him and Ted Washington, I really thought they'd be better. Man, did they suck!

nyjunc
05-27-2005, 03:16 PM
We should all be so lucky to ..."washed up" and still playing in the NFL....

That goes w/o saying.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:17 PM
Eddie George. I thought someone would have said it by now.

Amen to that! Last year was embarrassing.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:17 PM
That's a good one! I was wondering why they didn't go with Volek earlier last year.


i guess they feel its not diminishing skill, just a bothersome sternum. supposedly he had an effective surgery on it and should be back to mormal. we shall see.

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:19 PM
With all the same types of threads going around (Ricky, Fins vs. Bills, etc.), I thought it would be nice to open the bashing to the entire NFL, rather than limit it to just the AFC East. :)

What player(s) do you feel is(are) washed up, and should just call it quits?

I'll throw out a few big names:


Brett Favre
Jerry Rice
Rice was an easy one, but I'll probably take some flack for saying Favre. First off, I'd like to say that Favre was an EXCELLENT QB... but I think his time has passed. He still has talent, and has decent games once in a while, but he's been making more and more mistakes in the past few years. I mean, seriously, how many playoff games in a row have ended with a Favre INT?

Anyway, that's my opinion. Feel free to throw the dirt, fellas!

I agree 100% with you on Favre. Packer fans still cut him slack because of the mid-90's. He has been one of the biggest choke artists in the NFL since '97-'98. I don't know why more people don't realize this.

Scrap
05-27-2005, 03:19 PM
Timbo.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:20 PM
Junior Seau(missing last year was the final nail, could becme decent again b/c of his work ethic but I wouldn't bet on it)
Mark Brunell
jake Plummer(he never was a good player so is he really washed up?)
Warren Sapp
Sam Cowart
Keyshawn Johnson
Kurt Warner

Plummer was good in Arizona. He's had okay games, but been a bit letdown overall in Denver.

I'm not sure about Keyshawn... that offense has been miserable in Dallas. I like Jones and Witten, but they had TesticleVertebrae throwing, and a pretty poor O-line.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:21 PM
We should all be so lucky to ..."washed up" and still playing in the NFL....

It's about comparing the players to the rest of the NFL, not to our jobs. :)

finmann
05-27-2005, 03:22 PM
Keyshawn Johnson

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:22 PM
Tom Brady
Hey, it's nice to dream.

I wish, man.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:23 PM
i guess they feel its not diminishing skill, just a bothersome sternum. supposedly he had an effective surgery on it and should be back to mormal. we shall see.

Yeah, I heard that on ESPN I think... I'm not sold, but like you said... we'll see.

#84Fan4Life
05-27-2005, 03:23 PM
I'm glad someone said Favre. I'm so sick of the media sucking up to him even though he is the direct reason that the team has been bounced from the playoffs in the past 4 or 5 seasons due to his interceptions.


Marshall Faulk (He was the best player in football for a few years but he won't even be the starter in St. Louis anymore)
John Lynch (He went to the Pro Bowl off of his rep and not numbers)
Charles Woodson (bigger mouth than numbers)
Deion Sanders (lives off of rep)

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:24 PM
I agree 100% with you on Favre. Packer fans still cut him slack because of the mid-90's. He has been one of the biggest choke artists in the NFL since '97-'98. I don't know why more people don't realize this.

Yep, yep.

Does anyone remember how many playoff games in a row have ended with him throwing an INT? I'm pretty sure the past two years fit into that category.

mercury 40
05-27-2005, 03:26 PM
here is who i think is washed up.

eddie george, keyshaun johnson, drew bledsoe, jake plummer, jery rice,and ron dayne mike alstott .

Fins 34,Bills 3
05-27-2005, 03:26 PM
Gannon
^^ already announced retirement last week.

Fins 34,Bills 3
05-27-2005, 03:27 PM
mcnair for sure. maybe bledsoe.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:28 PM
ted washington is getting old

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:29 PM
I'm glad someone said Favre. I'm so sick of the media sucking up to him even though he is the direct reason that the team has been bounced from the playoffs in the past 4 or 5 seasons due to his interceptions.


Marshall Faulk (He was the best player in football for a few years but he won't even be the starter in St. Louis anymore)
John Lynch (He went to the Pro Bowl off of his rep and not numbers)
Charles Woodson (bigger mouth than numbers)
Deion Sanders (lives off of rep)

Is it that many years? Wow... I remembered the last two, but wasn't sure how many more.

Faulk is a good call on your part. I didn't know why they took so long to put Steven Jackson in there... that kid has skill.

I haven't paid enough attention to Lynch to answer that one... although, as I haven't heard anything about him in the past few years, that could be the answer right there. :) hehe

Yeah, Woodson is seriously overhyped. He's okay, but gets burned quite often (or so my brother, the Raiders fan, tells me).

Deion is just trying to relive the glory years. :)

Agua
05-27-2005, 03:29 PM
Good God almighty, I didn't realize some of these guys y'all are listing were even playing anymore.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:30 PM
brock marion

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:30 PM
here is who i think is washed up.

eddie george, keyshaun johnson, drew bledsoe, jake plummer, jery rice,and ron dayne mike alstott .

Dayne was never really good enough to be washed up. :) hehe

Alstott has been nonexistent for the past few years, so yeah.

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:30 PM
Yep, yep.

Does anyone remember how many playoff games in a row have ended with him throwing an INT? I'm pretty sure the past two years fit into that category.

I don't know, but he's had some classic goof ups. I'm talkin '04 AJ Feeley type goof ups. (6 INT's at STL a few years back, 2 season's ago-desperation over throw by 20 yards vs. Philly, last year's underhand flip at the 3 yard line when he was 5 yards past the line of scrimmage that cost GB a score and throwing 4 INT's in that game.....I could go on)

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:31 PM
gary and morten anderson

ch19079
05-27-2005, 03:32 PM
Junior Seau(missing last year was the final nail, could becme decent again b/c of his work ethic but I wouldn't bet on it)
Mark Brunell
jake Plummer(he never was a good player so is he really washed up?)
Warren Sapp
Sam Cowart
Keyshawn Johnson
Kurt Warner

Cowart is still good, if he can stay healthy, and he gets to play MLB.

i wish K. Johnson would just get punched in the face by former NFL LB Romanowski (sp?) and never play football again. :yes:

Agua
05-27-2005, 03:34 PM
Yeah, Woodson is seriously overhyped. He's okay, but gets burned quite often (or so my brother, the Raiders fan, tells me).


He's ALWAYS been waaaay over hyped.

ch19079
05-27-2005, 03:35 PM
Marshall Faulk (He was the best player in football for a few years but he won't even be the starter in St. Louis anymore)
Faulk does need to go. he wasnt really the starter last season. it was more of a "honorary" title.

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:35 PM
lol...i was just thinking. Jerry Rice made his NFL debut when I was 3. I just turned 24 two days ago. He needs to learn when to hang 'em up. Seriously.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:36 PM
t-buck

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:44 PM
lol...i was just thinking. Jerry Rice made his NFL debut when I was 3. I just turned 24 two days ago. He needs to learn when to hang 'em up. Seriously.

Absolutely. I mean, what other records could he possibly be looking for?

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:45 PM
Wade Smith

ryancall32
05-27-2005, 03:45 PM
mark higgs

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:45 PM
Absolutely. I mean, what other records could he possibly be looking for?

He's looking for 200 TD's (he only needs 3 more)

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:46 PM
Wade Smith


he has only played 2 years. cmon man

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 03:46 PM
he has only played 2 years. cmon man

I stand by my statement :wink:

ryancall32
05-27-2005, 03:47 PM
Absolutely. I mean, what other records could he possibly be looking for?


maybe he's not looking for records -- he truly LOVES the game. i just wish more players were like this. and why should he quit doing something he loves, if he can still (somewhat) produce?

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:47 PM
I stand by my statement :wink:


as I alone by Live plays in the background :)

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-27-2005, 03:56 PM
Peyton Manning.

He had an OK season last year, but seriously... give it up! The Colts should just trade him to... say, the Dolphins, for a 7th rounder. Peyton should take a vet. min. contract, too.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/05/breecherdream1-1.gif
hehe

I'm out of here for the weekend. See you all on Tuesday... have a good Memorial Day, everyone!

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 03:58 PM
lets see if stephen davis can bounce back from injury this time

BrazForPhins
05-27-2005, 04:01 PM
hum....Fiedler?

popularwar
05-27-2005, 04:01 PM
Steve McNair may not be washed up. The guy's a soldier and he was MVP two seasons ago. He just got hurt, we don't know that he'll be washed up.

NathanHunt
05-27-2005, 04:01 PM
That's a good one! I was wondering why they didn't go with Volek earlier last year.

Posterity.

But, honestly, McNair needs to get on that horse and look for the sunset.

In respect to the franchise, Volek's time is now. He's capable of gawdy numbers, he just needs to tweak his mental game.

I.E. McNair = Tutor.

NathanHunt
05-27-2005, 04:02 PM
lets see if stephen davis can bounce back from injury this time

AND Deshaun Foster.

MarinoEqualsGod
05-27-2005, 04:03 PM
AND Deshaun Foster.

AND Steve Smith

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 04:04 PM
AND Deshaun Foster.


dudes made of glass. its a shame because he has shown that he can play

Agua
05-27-2005, 04:08 PM
hum....Fiedler?

Yeah, Jay's been on a downhill slide since Denver 2003. Well, he never was at any height to really go downhill, but his development ceased and he regressed from there.

BrazForPhins
05-27-2005, 04:25 PM
Yeah, Jay's been on a downhill slide since Denver 2003. Well, he never was at any height to really go downhill, but his development ceased and he regressed from there.

:D what i thought

Boik14
05-27-2005, 04:28 PM
I definitely agree what seem to be the public sentiment with guys like Faulk, Garner, Favre, Tim Bo, Rice, Sapp, Woodson, Vinny, etc.

I dont agree on Keyshawn or McNair. McNair played last season when he shouldnt have been playing much at all. he had a busted sternum that required offseason surgery and took away from his ability to throw the ball; he threw in games in constant pain but toughed his way as far as he could go. Aside from the fact I love the dude's guts Hes only 31 or 32 and Qbs often play well into their mid-late 30's. hes easily got another 2-3 years in him.

Keyshawn was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and a poor qb. I think he could easily be an effective possession wr (which is all he ever was since he never had deep speed). Chambers stats were garbage too cause of the same issues and no one is calling him washed up. I dont like him but he is far from done imo.

I dont agree on Toomer for similar reasons to Keyshawn. Rookie Qb learning how to play @ this level.

Also gannon retired a few days ago. I feel bad cause these last 5-6 years were the best of his career. Nothing was expected of him coming out and he managed to make an effective career from his work ethic, study habits and accuracy. If he hadnt been a raider I would have liked him more.

Now Ill add a few to the list:
Jon Ogden; his pass blocking skills have slipped dramatically. Maybe hes not entirely done but hes not what he once was either.
Jerome Bettis (cant believe no one said him yet)
Jimmy Smith
Wayne Chrebet
Peter Boulware
Rod Smith

BennyVW
05-27-2005, 04:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1715009

Wow the keyshawn off the feild matches the keyshawn on the feild.
1. To slow to run away
2. Can't Separate
3. Gets "Mugged in Double coverage"
4. Probably did some sort of dance afterward.

Fins 34,Bills 3
05-27-2005, 04:31 PM
I definitely agree what seem to be the public sentiment with guys like Faulk, Garner, Favre, Tim Bo, Rice, Sapp, Woodson, Vinny, etc.

I dont agree on Keyshawn or McNair. McNair played last season when he shouldnt have been playing much at all. he had a busted sternum that required offseason surgery and took away from his ability to throw the ball; he threw in games in constant pain but toughed his way as far as he could go. Aside from the fact I love the dude's guts Hes only 31 or 32 and Qbs often play well into their mid-late 30's. hes easily got another 2-3 years in him.

Keyshawn was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and a poor qb. I think he could easily be an effective possession wr (which is all he ever was since he never had deep speed). Chambers stats were garbage too cause of the same issues and no one is calling him washed up. I dont like him but he is far from done imo.

I dont agree on Toomer for similar reasons to Keyshawn. Rookie Qb learning how to play @ this level.

Also gannon retired a few days ago. I feel bad cause these last 5-6 years were the best of his career. Nothing was expected of him coming out and he managed to make an effective career from his work ethic, study habits and accuracy. If he hadnt been a raider I would have liked him more.

Now Ill add a few to the list:
Jon Ogden; his pass blocking skills have slipped dramatically. Maybe hes not entirely done but hes not what he once was either.
Jerome Bettis (cant believe no one said him yet)
Jimmy Smith
Wayne Chrebet
Peter Boulware
Rod Smith
No way to Rod Smith and Jimmy Smith. They have great hands and both had SOLID years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 04:32 PM
jimmy smith is still the man

zackattack54
05-27-2005, 04:33 PM
The patriots.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 04:34 PM
dan wilkinson

WitheringPlant
05-27-2005, 04:35 PM
I sort of agree about Favre......for some reason the media has a HUGE man crush on him and he somehow he gets a free pass for all his mistakes. I don't know if it's time to retire ....But his window is closing QUICKLY
Its a hard subject there. Favre is losing it, but they NEED him to stick around and show Rogers the ropes. If they made him backup, I'd have a feeling he would retire, so keeping him starter is pretty much the only option.

WitheringPlant
05-27-2005, 04:40 PM
I definitely agree what seem to be the public sentiment with guys like Faulk, Garner, Favre, Tim Bo, Rice, Sapp, Woodson, Vinny, etc.

I dont agree on Keyshawn or McNair. McNair played last season when he shouldnt have been playing much at all. he had a busted sternum that required offseason surgery and took away from his ability to throw the ball; he threw in games in constant pain but toughed his way as far as he could go. Aside from the fact I love the dude's guts Hes only 31 or 32 and Qbs often play well into their mid-late 30's. hes easily got another 2-3 years in him.

Keyshawn was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and a poor qb. I think he could easily be an effective possession wr (which is all he ever was since he never had deep speed). Chambers stats were garbage too cause of the same issues and no one is calling him washed up. I dont like him but he is far from done imo.

I dont agree on Toomer for similar reasons to Keyshawn. Rookie Qb learning how to play @ this level.

Also gannon retired a few days ago. I feel bad cause these last 5-6 years were the best of his career. Nothing was expected of him coming out and he managed to make an effective career from his work ethic, study habits and accuracy. If he hadnt been a raider I would have liked him more.

Now Ill add a few to the list:
Jon Ogden; his pass blocking skills have slipped dramatically. Maybe hes not entirely done but hes not what he once was either.
Jerome Bettis (cant believe no one said him yet)
Jimmy Smith
Wayne Chrebet
Peter Boulware
Rod Smith
Bettis... are you crazy? He almost got 1k yards as a BACKUP. Maybe by himself he would be slowin down, but with Staley in the backfield with him, he has some time left.

SwimminInIndy
05-27-2005, 04:54 PM
you wanna talk about man crushes on favre? what about his biggest fan, john madden. in the midst of doing something he loves like eating a duck stuffed into a chicken stuffed in a turkey he will stop eating and bring up favre. he would be talking about something totally different and bring up his cream dream brett.

"you know something, i like to eat, and im fat....but speaking of that, have you ever seen brett favre throw a football? the man is out of this world, he just goes back, and BOOM! touchdown. i love him."

Boik14
05-27-2005, 04:55 PM
No way to Rod Smith and Jimmy Smith. They have great hands and both had SOLID years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1sorry i should have made that clear that those 2 were predictions that this will be their decline year.

Boik14
05-27-2005, 04:59 PM
Bettis... are you crazy? He almost got 1k yards as a BACKUP. Maybe by himself he would be slowin down, but with Staley in the backfield with him, he has some time left.He also only averaged 3.8ypc behind 1 of the best run blocking OL's in the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2354&out

KPDolfan424
05-27-2005, 05:02 PM
Brad Johnson

BennyVW
05-27-2005, 05:05 PM
trent dilfer

Dolfan99
05-27-2005, 05:12 PM
lol...i was just thinking. Jerry Rice made his NFL debut when I was 3. I just turned 24 two days ago. He needs to learn when to hang 'em up. Seriously.

Jerry Rice is an example of what an NFL player should be. He plays because he loves the game not because he loves the money. Im not ripping on any of the players that do do it for the money because the NFL is a business but i would rather have a player who loves the game than some one who is holding out because you won't redo their contract.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 05:14 PM
trent dilfer

hes not a bad back up

SwimminInIndy
05-27-2005, 05:16 PM
hes not a bad back up

you should call cleveland and let them know that.

MelbournePhin
05-27-2005, 05:17 PM
you should call cleveland and let them know that.


did i miss something? is he starting for them? oh boy

SwimminInIndy
05-27-2005, 05:24 PM
yeah who else would? they named trent the starter. if i was romeo i would start the mccown kid. he did ok against a tough dolphin D last year. just start him and cross your fingers. cleveland is a joke. i will be there this year to cheer on the dolphins to victory.

Boik14
05-27-2005, 05:28 PM
did i miss something? is he starting for them? oh boyeither he or Luke McCown will be starting for them.

Maybe they'd give us a 7th for Feeley. Id take it :lol:

phinsforever
05-27-2005, 05:30 PM
M Faulk

SwimminInIndy
05-27-2005, 05:33 PM
7th for feely? yeah right. feely is gonna be around for a while. sorry. the kid is growing.

ryancall32
05-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Jerry Rice is an example of what an NFL player should be. He plays because he loves the game not because he loves the money. Im not ripping on any of the players that do do it for the money because the NFL is a business but i would rather have a player who loves the game than some one who is holding out because you won't redo their contract.


completely agree!

#84Fan4Life
05-27-2005, 07:43 PM
Is it that many years? Wow... I remembered the last two, but wasn't sure how many more.



Yeah, because I still remember in 2000 that favre threw 6 or 7 picks against the Rams, then in 2001 I think they lost to the Falcons and Favre had 3 or 4 picks in that game.

boik14 I would disagree with Bettis and Jimmy Smith. Last year Bettis had almost 1000 yards and 13 Tds and he only started for 6 games. He did only have a 3.8 YPC but he was still productive none the less. Bettis has slipped but he isn't washed up yet IMO.

Jimmy Smith had a great season last year. He had 1172 yards and 6 TDs with a young Byron Leftwich at QB so I would say hes not washed up yet.

fishfan34
05-27-2005, 08:03 PM
Bledoe and Gannon are the first two that come to mind!

gofins
05-27-2005, 08:40 PM
Surprised nobody said Zack Thomas:shakeno:

Predaphin
05-27-2005, 09:02 PM
Is he even on a roster? I don't think he's playing this year.

last I heard there was a chance he may sign with Tennesse again.

Predaphin
05-27-2005, 09:03 PM
Eddie George are Jerry Rice are done.

WitheringPlant
05-28-2005, 12:50 AM
He also only averaged 3.8ypc behind 1 of the best run blocking OL's in the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2354&out
That because he was used as an endzone back for the beggining of the year. He was at something like 3/4 in the first 3 games.

THOMAS_54
05-28-2005, 01:53 AM
Terry Glenn
Troy Vincent
Bobby Taylor

I'm really surprised no one say those names

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:00 AM
[QUOTE=SwimminInIndy]7th for feely? yeah right. feely is gonna be around for a while. sorry. the kid is growing.[/QUOTE/] Growing in regression maybe

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:01 AM
That because he was used as an endzone back for the beggining of the year. He was at something like 3/4 in the first 3 games.But he also only had a handful of carries in those first few games so it would only weigh down his YPC accordingly

Goin` Deep
05-28-2005, 02:17 AM
Jerry Rice...he should have quit before the `04 season, he did nothing for the Raiders or Seaducks last year.
Kurt Warner
Eddie George...is he even on a roster still.
Wayne Chrebet
Rob Konrad...wait, he already quit.
Drew Bledsoe
Kordell Stewart...see Eddie George.
Junior Seau...he`s got ALOT to prove to Miami in `05.
Troy Brown...not a starter anymore, can he make it as DB? No!
Charles Rogers...we`re still waiting to see him play half of one season.
Tim Couch...again, is he even on a roster somewhere?

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:22 AM
couch is a FA.

Wildbill3
05-28-2005, 02:23 AM
Jerome Bettis (cant believe no one said him yet)
I couldn't believe how well he did as a part time starter last seaon, dude only started 6 games and still nearly gained a 1000 yards. He may not be the starter, but I don't think he can be considered to be washed up either, he'll be more productive in a back up role than probably 1/4 of this years starters.

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:27 AM
I couldn't believe how well he did as a part time starter last seaon, dude only started 6 games and still nearly gained a 1000 yards. He may not be the starter, but I don't think he can be considered to be washed up either, he'll be more productive in a back up role than probably 1/4 of this years starters.True but hes effective because hes a backup. Duce Staley is nothing spectacular yet he took Bettis' spot cause hes old and cant start anymore for a full season.

DeeAy3000
05-28-2005, 02:31 AM
Brian F'ing Griese, he shows a glimpse of brilliance every where he goes but lets face it, he will never be anything more than a flash in the pan type QB where ever he goes. Guranteed TB will pick top 5 next year.

Hines Ward has seen his zenith and his pitfall is imminent, I may catch some flack for this one but this guy is OLD.

a few more....

- Trent Green (how god do you have to be to run this offense? oh well he still sucks)
- Edgerrin James
- Terrel Owens
- Matt Hassellbeck
- Tiki Barber

I just tried to name the ones that come to mind that no one else has mentioned (as far as i know)

Wildbill3
05-28-2005, 02:34 AM
He also only averaged 3.8ypc behind 1 of the best run blocking OL's in the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2354&out only 3.8? hmmm, so every time he touched the ball 3 times he got a first down right? Oh, and you are factoring in the whole season, where in the beginning before duce went down, bettis only got the rock on short yardage situation. IN his back-up role he would have something like 6 carris for 5 yards and 2 or 3 touchdowns. :lol:

well, lets look up his stats shall we?

CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st
SEPTEMBER GAMES 3 12 13 1.1 4 3 3
OCTOBER GAMES 4 40 116 2.9 29 5 8
NOVEMBER GAMES 4 122 481 3.9 24 3 21
DECEMBER GAMES 4 76 331 4.4 23 2 18

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:37 AM
only 3.8? hmmm, so every time he touched the ball 3 times he got a first down right? Oh, and you are factoring in the whole season, where in the beginning before duce went down, bettis only got the rock on short yardage situation. IN his back-up role he would have something like 6 carris for 5 yards and 2 or 3 touchdowns. :lol:

well, lets look up his stats shall we?


SEPTEMBER GAMES 3 12 13 1.1 4 3 3
OCTOBER GAMES 4 40 116 2.9 29 5 8
NOVEMBER GAMES 4 122 481 3.9 24 3 21
DECEMBER GAMES 4 76 331 4.4 23 2 18He was unproductive as a back up. The 6 carries weighs no differently then his 6 longest runs of the year. Maybe if he had played better the year before as starter he wouldnt have been demoted.

Wildbill3
05-28-2005, 02:39 AM
He was unproductive as a back up. The 6 carries weighs no differently then his 6 longest runs of the year. Maybe if he had played better the year before as starter he wouldnt have been demoted.So, sorry you don't agree, if you look at his stats last year you would have to be a moron to think he was in decline, if you were to go by the year before or the year before that... (devil stats...666) then yeah I could see where you would get that opinion. Sorry but you just threw his name out there without doing any research, or were you making another prediction?:shakeno:

Boik14
05-28-2005, 02:45 AM
So, sorry you don't agree, if you look at his stats last year you would have to be a moron to think he was in decline, if you were to go by the year before or the year before that... (devil stats...666) then yeah I could see where you would get that opinion. Sorry but you just threw his name out there without doing any research, or were you making another prediction?:shakeno:I put that out there having done research. You go from all pro to back up? Thats severe decline regardless of how you spin it. And its nothing to be ashamed of; it happens to older players and especially RBs. he happens to be one of my fave players but to deny that hes not nearly the player he was in disturbing. During his better years Duce Staley would have seen 5 carries a game at best.

Wildbill3
05-28-2005, 02:56 AM
I put that out there having done research. You go from all pro to back up? Thats severe decline regardless of how you spin it. And its nothing to be ashamed of; it happens to older players and especially RBs. he happens to be one of my fave players but to deny that hes not nearly the player he was in disturbing. During his better years Duce Staley would have seen 5 carries a game at best.I think Duce was a bad choice for them personally, he has never shown himself to be all that durable, unlike bettis, I really think Pitt should've looked somewhere else for a starter if they have no faith in bettis, I am willing to bet Bill was doing his best homer impression when bettis tore it up at the end of the year...

Predaphin
05-28-2005, 02:10 PM
How could anyone forget....Kurt Warner!!

he was done 1 year before he left the Rams...actually he only had 2 or 3 good years.

Dolfan73
05-28-2005, 02:24 PM
Rickey Henderson

Predaphin
05-28-2005, 04:47 PM
I forgot, the man with more Touchdowns than yards.... Jerome Bettis!!!! He was a fluke last year.

painnotpleasure
05-28-2005, 07:15 PM
Here's the list of almost all of the players mention:

Brett Favre, Jerry Rice, Vinny Testaverde, Rich Gannon, Steve McNair, Drew Bledsoe, Amani Toomer, Doug Flutie, Marcellus Wiley, Warren Sapp, Kurt Warner, Eddie George, Mark Brunell, Jake Plummer, Sam Cowart, Keyshawn Johnson, Kyle Turley, Tim Bowens, Junior Seau, Marshall Faulk, John Lynch, Charles Woodson, Deion Sanders, Rod Dayne (Bust?), Mike Alstott, Gary Andersen, Morten Andersen, Brock Marion, Ted Washington, Terrell Buckley, Wade Smith, Jerome Bettis, Jimmy Smith, Wayne Chrebet, Peter Boulware, Rod Smith, Dan Wilkerson, Jonathon Ogden, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Terry Glenn, Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Kordell Stewart, Troy Brown, Charles Rogers, Tim Couch (not sure if I would call it washed up... probably just a BUST but he's done regardless.)

Also one I'd like to add that I'm surprised I didn't see mentioned... Tim Brown

The ones I agree with and feel are washed up are in BOLD

Predaphin
05-28-2005, 07:32 PM
Wade Smith or Ron Dayne can't be washed up, they would just be considered a bust.

WitheringPlant
05-28-2005, 07:54 PM
Brian F'ing Griese, he shows a glimpse of brilliance every where he goes but lets face it, he will never be anything more than a flash in the pan type QB where ever he goes. Guranteed TB will pick top 5 next year.

Hines Ward has seen his zenith and his pitfall is imminent, I may catch some flack for this one but this guy is OLD.

a few more....

- Trent Green (how god do you have to be to run this offense? oh well he still sucks)
- Edgerrin James
- Terrel Owens
- Matt Hassellbeck
- Tiki Barber

I just tried to name the ones that come to mind that no one else has mentioned (as far as i know)
Edge- 1548 yards, 4.6 AVG. Not even close to dead.
Owens- 1200 Yards, 15.6 AVG. I'd love for one of our receivers to have those #s.
Hasselbeck-3382 Yards, 22 TD, 15 INT. And remember, his receivers have a habbit of dropping the Ball
Barber- 1518 Yards, 4.7 AVG. Morris and Minor together had 911...
I don't care much for Green, so I'll leave that. So then, who are you going to say next, Michael Vick :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:.

painnotpleasure
05-28-2005, 08:10 PM
Brian F'ing Griese, he shows a glimpse of brilliance every where he goes but lets face it, he will never be anything more than a flash in the pan type QB where ever he goes. Guranteed TB will pick top 5 next year.

Hines Ward has seen his zenith and his pitfall is imminent, I may catch some flack for this one but this guy is OLD.

a few more....

- Trent Green (how god do you have to be to run this offense? oh well he still sucks)
- Edgerrin James
- Terrel Owens
- Matt Hassellbeck
- Tiki Barber

I just tried to name the ones that come to mind that no one else has mentioned (as far as i know) I hope you're kidding.

Trent Green- Yeah sure their O-line is the best in the NFL and they have the best rushing attack in the NFL in my honest opinion. But other than Tony Gonzales they don't necessarily have OUTSTANDING AMAZING WR's... Johnnie Morton and Eddie Kennison.... STARTING. :rolleyes: Trent Green isn't washed up and has backed it up with stats the past few seasons.

Edge- You're kidding, right? After last season... 1548 yards.. 4.6 AVG, his highest rushing average ever in his career and 9 rushing touchdowns. Also 51 catches for 483 yards and he played and started all 16 games last season.

TO- No... Just no. No need to prove anything...

Matt Hasselbeck- I'll give you some leeway, it's still undetermined though if he was just a one hit wonder or just had a bad season last year.

Tiki Barber- I'm beginning to think this might be a joke but the fact you threw Hasselbeck in concerns me. Tiki had the best season of his career last year and led Giants to a 4-1 record until Coughlin eventually threw Eli in too early... 1581 yards (career high) 4.7 Average, 13 Rushing Touchdowns (career high), 77 First downs (career high), 52 receptions for 578 yards.

I wouldn't call Trent Green, Edgerrin James, Terrell Owens, or Tiki Barber "WASHED UP" and as for Matt Hasselbeck, I wouldn't say he is washed up... I would say that he is on the hot seat this season and has A LOT to prove.

WitheringPlant
05-28-2005, 10:07 PM
I don't think Matt is on the hot seat. Holmgren loves him too much. Holmgren may be on the hot seat though, and if he goes I think Matt would too.

WeVie
05-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Year Gm Att Cmp Cmp% Yds Yd/A TD Int Sacked Rating
2001 16 510 314 61.6 3921 7.7 32 15 22 94.1
2002 16 551 341 61.9 3658 6.6 27 16 26 85.6
2003 16 471 308 65.4 3361 7.1 32 21 19 90.4
2004 16 540 346 64.1 4088 7.6 30 17 12 92.4


Sorry guys. Say what you will but that is Brett's numbers from the last four seasons and that is not from someone that is washed up. Sure he makes mistakes and some very bad mistakes but come on. He may be the reason they lost in the playoffs but he is the reason they were in the playoffs also. Favre still has it. He passed for over 4000 yards last year.

Year Gm Comp. Att. Cmp% Yds Yd/A TD INT Rat.
1996 13 221 373 59.2 2795 7.49 17 9 87.8
1997 16 319 548 58.2 3780 6.90 16 11 80.7
1998 16 310 537 57.7 3497 6.51 23 15 80.0
1999 11 204 369 55.3 2448 6.63 12 17 67.4

That my friends is Marino's last four years. Now be honest. How many of you defended Dan when someone said he is washed up and needs to retire. I was one of them. I will bet at least 97% of you that are saying Brett should retire thought it was a shame Dan retired. That he still had a couple of good years left and maybe he did but I can admit it now that more than likely he did not.

You guys can bash me and say what you will. I suppose I have a man crush on Favre like Madden does but I am proud of it and love to watch Brett play. The Packers are my second favorite team because of him.

Before I stop I want to throw one more number at you guys. 45. That my friends is how many touchdowns Brett needs to break Dan's touchdown record. That is only two seasons worth or even one if he has a magical year.

Heck he only needs 11628 to break the yardage record. It's a little harder to reach but not impossible in three years.

Dolphin North
05-28-2005, 10:47 PM
With all the same types of threads going around (Ricky, Fins vs. Bills, etc.), I thought it would be nice to open the bashing to the entire NFL, rather than limit it to just the AFC East. :)

What player(s) do you feel is(are) washed up, and should just call it quits?

I'll throw out a few big names:


Brett Favre
Jerry Rice
Rice was an easy one, but I'll probably take some flack for saying Favre. First off, I'd like to say that Favre was an EXCELLENT QB... but I think his time has passed. He still has talent, and has decent games once in a while, but he's been making more and more mistakes in the past few years. I mean, seriously, how many playoff games in a row have ended with a Favre INT?

Anyway, that's my opinion. Feel free to throw the dirt, fellas!

The thing is he needs to see it through. A competitive guy like Marino was. Some guys need to go til they just don't have a thing left. Favre is still ok and has a role with his team. Especially now that he has a young QB to help. The only problem is the Oline is bad and his legs won't save him like they could years ago.

Is Tesaverde still playing? He could be one. Eddie GEorge?

PhinFan0202
05-28-2005, 11:43 PM
did i miss something? is he starting for them? oh boy

Yes he is, but he won't be the starter for too much longer. Crennel got Charlie Frye to be the guy who's going to hopefully blossom to the franchise QB.

WeVie
05-29-2005, 10:01 AM
Jerry Rice is an example of what an NFL player should be. He plays because he loves the game not because he loves the money. Im not ripping on any of the players that do do it for the money because the NFL is a business but i would rather have a player who loves the game than some one who is holding out because you won't redo their contract.




The NFL would be a much better game if there were more players like Rice.

TarHeelFinFan
05-29-2005, 10:02 AM
Ricky Williams. In 2003 he averaged a scant 3.5 yards per carry and scored only 9 rushing TDs as a featured back in a rushing-oriented offense. Following that season he abandoned his team to leave the game for a year burning out. He's as washed up as they come.

WeVie
05-29-2005, 12:28 PM
Ricky Williams. In 2003 he averaged a scant 3.5 yards per carry and scored only 9 rushing TDs as a featured back in a rushing-oriented offense. Following that season he abandoned his team to leave the game for a year burning out. He's as washed up as they come.


Last time I checked 3.5 YPC was pretty good.

MelbournePhin
05-29-2005, 12:31 PM
Ricky Williams. In 2003 he averaged a scant 3.5 yards per carry and scored only 9 rushing TDs as a featured back in a rushing-oriented offense. Following that season he abandoned his team to leave the game for a year burning out. He's as washed up as they come.


washed up? question. were you pi$$ed when he quit the team?? seeing that hes "washed up," you should have been happy that he abandoned the team. btw, if Saban doesnt think hes washed up, what merit does your argument hold?

FinNasty
05-29-2005, 02:30 PM
QBs -
Jeff Garcia
Kurt Warner
Brad Johnson
Testeverde
Flutie
Gannon

RBs -
Eddie George
Marshall Faulk
Charlie Gardner
The Bus (I thought this last year too, and i was wrong, but at this stage in his career he has to prove me wrong every season)

Nasty

nyjunc
05-31-2005, 05:58 AM
Last time I checked 3.5 YPC was pretty good.

Pretty good? 3.5 YPC is not good at all, the bare minimum you need to have a "good" season is 4.0 and that's a 1/2 yard less.

finsnchips
05-31-2005, 06:37 AM
deion sanders

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 10:56 AM
Posterity.

But, honestly, McNair needs to get on that horse and look for the sunset.

In respect to the franchise, Volek's time is now. He's capable of gawdy numbers, he just needs to tweak his mental game.

I.E. McNair = Tutor.

I agree... I think Volek could be great. He's got a lot of talent, but needs a bit of coaching.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 10:57 AM
AND Deshaun Foster.

That guy's a force, when healthy.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:05 AM
I definitely agree what seem to be the public sentiment with guys like Faulk, Garner, Favre, Tim Bo, Rice, Sapp, Woodson, Vinny, etc.

I dont agree on Keyshawn or McNair. McNair played last season when he shouldnt have been playing much at all. he had a busted sternum that required offseason surgery and took away from his ability to throw the ball; he threw in games in constant pain but toughed his way as far as he could go. Aside from the fact I love the dude's guts Hes only 31 or 32 and Qbs often play well into their mid-late 30's. hes easily got another 2-3 years in him.

Keyshawn was victimized by a poor surrounding cast and a poor qb. I think he could easily be an effective possession wr (which is all he ever was since he never had deep speed). Chambers stats were garbage too cause of the same issues and no one is calling him washed up. I dont like him but he is far from done imo.

I dont agree on Toomer for similar reasons to Keyshawn. Rookie Qb learning how to play @ this level.

Also gannon retired a few days ago. I feel bad cause these last 5-6 years were the best of his career. Nothing was expected of him coming out and he managed to make an effective career from his work ethic, study habits and accuracy. If he hadnt been a raider I would have liked him more.

Now Ill add a few to the list:
Jon Ogden; his pass blocking skills have slipped dramatically. Maybe hes not entirely done but hes not what he once was either.
Jerome Bettis (cant believe no one said him yet)
Jimmy Smith
Wayne Chrebet
Peter Boulware
Rod Smith

I disagree on Ogden (he was injured last year), Bettis (I know it was a great O-line, but he played very well last year), and the Smiths to a degree (they each had some big games, but suffered a bit due to injury (Jimmy) and poor QB play at times (Rod from Plummer)).

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:07 AM
Bettis... are you crazy? He almost got 1k yards as a BACKUP. Maybe by himself he would be slowin down, but with Staley in the backfield with him, he has some time left.

That's what I'm saying... he really stepped up as a starter, when he wasn't supposed to have that much of a load to carry.

wazzy
05-31-2005, 11:09 AM
Larry Chester and Tim Bowens should both retire and live a healthier life then they will if they keep playing with these injuries. Plus I dont think they will ever be the same if they play another down.

SORRY if someone has already posted this

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:16 AM
you wanna talk about man crushes on favre? what about his biggest fan, john madden. in the midst of doing something he loves like eating a duck stuffed into a chicken stuffed in a turkey he will stop eating and bring up favre. he would be talking about something totally different and bring up his cream dream brett.

"you know something, i like to eat, and im fat....but speaking of that, have you ever seen brett favre throw a football? the man is out of this world, he just goes back, and BOOM! touchdown. i love him."

That reminds me... I'd like to extend the range of this thread to NFL commentators as well... I think Berman and Madden are both washed up.

The two of them use the same lines over and over. Berman's "He could...go...all...the...way" was my favorite, until I heard it for the 100 billionth time.

Madden, on the other hand, needs to stick to video games. He comes up with the most asinine comments I've ever heard. I call him "Captain Obvious", due to the brilliant pregame analysis he gives:

"To win this game, the Giants have to score more points than they allow the Eagles to score".

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:18 AM
trent dilfer

Dillhole was never good enough to be achieve washed up status now. :) hehe

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:22 AM
Jerry Rice...he should have quit before the `04 season, he did nothing for the Raiders or Seaducks last year.
Kurt Warner
Eddie George...is he even on a roster still.
Wayne Chrebet
Rob Konrad...wait, he already quit.
Drew Bledsoe
Kordell Stewart...see Eddie George.
Junior Seau...he`s got ALOT to prove to Miami in `05.
Troy Brown...not a starter anymore, can he make it as DB? No!
Charles Rogers...we`re still waiting to see him play half of one season.
Tim Couch...again, is he even on a roster somewhere?

I really can't agree with Charles Rogers... he was hurt, and he's seriously talented.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:27 AM
Brian F'ing Griese, he shows a glimpse of brilliance every where he goes but lets face it, he will never be anything more than a flash in the pan type QB where ever he goes. Guranteed TB will pick top 5 next year.

Hines Ward has seen his zenith and his pitfall is imminent, I may catch some flack for this one but this guy is OLD.

a few more....

- Trent Green (how god do you have to be to run this offense? oh well he still sucks)
- Edgerrin James
- Terrel Owens
- Matt Hassellbeck
- Tiki Barber

I just tried to name the ones that come to mind that no one else has mentioned (as far as i know)

Holy cr@p, I hope you're joking about some of these!


Hines Ward is one of the absolute best WRs in the NFL!!! Did you watch him play at all last year?
Edgerrin James is one of the top RBs in the league... he is back in full form, and proved it with his well-rounded performance last year.
TO was arguably the #1 receiver in the league last year
Tiki was 5th in the league in rushing, behind a bad O-line!
Trent Green is overrated, and possibly on the verge of being washed up.

Hasselbeck - I'm not sure on him yet.

CD13
05-31-2005, 11:28 AM
I sort of agree about Favre......for some reason the media has a HUGE man crush on him and he somehow he gets a free pass for all his mistakes. I don't know if it's time to retire ....But his window is closing QUICKLY


Favre should not retire, nor is he washed up. If Green Bay cut him, do you really think his agent would have to send a memo to all 32 teams to get him a job ?!!! He would be our starter in a second. Rice on the other hand should retire...

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:30 AM
Here's the list of almost all of the players mention:

Brett Favre, Jerry Rice, Vinny Testaverde, Rich Gannon, Steve McNair, Drew Bledsoe, Amani Toomer, Doug Flutie, Marcellus Wiley, Warren Sapp, Kurt Warner, Eddie George, Mark Brunell, Jake Plummer, Sam Cowart, Keyshawn Johnson, Kyle Turley, Tim Bowens, Junior Seau, Marshall Faulk, John Lynch, Charles Woodson, Deion Sanders, Rod Dayne (Bust?), Mike Alstott, Gary Andersen, Morten Andersen, Brock Marion, Ted Washington, Terrell Buckley, Wade Smith, Jerome Bettis, Jimmy Smith, Wayne Chrebet, Peter Boulware, Rod Smith, Dan Wilkerson, Jonathon Ogden, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Terry Glenn, Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Kordell Stewart, Troy Brown, Charles Rogers, Tim Couch (not sure if I would call it washed up... probably just a BUST but he's done regardless.)

Also one I'd like to add that I'm surprised I didn't see mentioned... Tim Brown

The ones I agree with and feel are washed up are in BOLD

Nice summary! Also, good addition with Brown... he definitely fits the bill.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:33 AM
Edge- 1548 yards, 4.6 AVG. Not even close to dead.
Owens- 1200 Yards, 15.6 AVG. I'd love for one of our receivers to have those #s.
Hasselbeck-3382 Yards, 22 TD, 15 INT. And remember, his receivers have a habbit of dropping the Ball
Barber- 1518 Yards, 4.7 AVG. Morris and Minor together had 911...
I don't care much for Green, so I'll leave that. So then, who are you going to say next, Michael Vick :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:.

Yeah, I really didn't understand those!

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:34 AM
I hope you're kidding.

Trent Green- Yeah sure their O-line is the best in the NFL and they have the best rushing attack in the NFL in my honest opinion. But other than Tony Gonzales they don't necessarily have OUTSTANDING AMAZING WR's... Johnnie Morton and Eddie Kennison.... STARTING. :rolleyes: Trent Green isn't washed up and has backed it up with stats the past few seasons.

Edge- You're kidding, right? After last season... 1548 yards.. 4.6 AVG, his highest rushing average ever in his career and 9 rushing touchdowns. Also 51 catches for 483 yards and he played and started all 16 games last season.

TO- No... Just no. No need to prove anything...

Matt Hasselbeck- I'll give you some leeway, it's still undetermined though if he was just a one hit wonder or just had a bad season last year.

Tiki Barber- I'm beginning to think this might be a joke but the fact you threw Hasselbeck in concerns me. Tiki had the best season of his career last year and led Giants to a 4-1 record until Coughlin eventually threw Eli in too early... 1581 yards (career high) 4.7 Average, 13 Rushing Touchdowns (career high), 77 First downs (career high), 52 receptions for 578 yards.

I wouldn't call Trent Green, Edgerrin James, Terrell Owens, or Tiki Barber "WASHED UP" and as for Matt Hasselbeck, I wouldn't say he is washed up... I would say that he is on the hot seat this season and has A LOT to prove.

Well said, man.

NJ_Fin_Fan
05-31-2005, 11:40 AM
[QUOTE=TarHeelFinFan]Ricky Williams. In 2003 he averaged a scant 3.5 yards per carry and scored only 9 rushing TDs as a featured back in a rushing-oriented offense. Following that season he abandoned his team to leave

Any educated NFL fan would realize that:


His 2003 numbers were decent (you forgot to mention his yardage)
The real reason he didn't do better was Dave Wannstedt's lack of a system.

painnotpleasure
05-31-2005, 01:13 PM
Nice summary! Also, good addition with Brown... he definitely fits the bill. Thanks. :up:

Oaklandraider
06-01-2005, 10:23 PM
I don't understand that guy... he was amazing one year, and just bit the big one the next! What the heck happened?!?


We got a new coaching staff.