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View Full Version : Raiders: Moss says Collins is better than Daunte



byroan
06-10-2005, 02:30 PM
Kerry has pocket presence and knows how to read defenses. So Kerry has a slight step over Daunte."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-raidersmosssayscolli&prov=fanball&type=lgns

:shakeno: Talk about being a homer to your QB.

Martel
06-10-2005, 02:39 PM
Him and Daunte are not cool right now, so he's taking little jabs. I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone else on planet Earth that would take Collins over Culpepper.

DonShula84
06-10-2005, 02:49 PM
He is just talking up his new QB, no way he even believes that crap. Kerry Collins is saying thanks Randy but you are full of ****.

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 02:50 PM
I don't disagree w/ him, I think Daunte Culpepper is highly overrated. He is a pure fantasy QB who puts up great #s and folds in big games and his #s were so good mainly b/c of #84. Any QB they put back there in the Moss era produced, even Todd Bouman had some success a few years ago when Daune was benched. Daunte Culpepper might be the most overrated player in the league.

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 02:50 PM
Him and Daunte are not cool right now, so he's taking little jabs. I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone else on planet Earth that would take Collins over Culpepper.

The only reason I'd take Culpepper over Collins is b/c of age.

By the way, even when he and Daunte were cool he said the best QB he ever played w/ was Chad Pennington.

DonShula84
06-10-2005, 02:53 PM
I don't disagree w/ him, I think Daunte Culpepper is highly overrated. He is a pure fantasy QB who puts up great #s and folds in big games and his #s were so good mainly b/c of #84. Any QB they put back there in the Moss era produced, even Todd Bouman had some success a few years ago when Daune was benched. Daunte Culpepper might be the most overrated player in the league.

But Collins doesnt put up big numbers and what big games as he ever won? Moss missed several games this year and Culpepper still had a great season so I dont think you can give Moss all the credit for Culpepper being great. I think he is one of the best QBs in the league, guess we'll see how he does with no Moss for a whole season this year, but I have the Vikings going to the Super Bowl this year so I have faith in them.

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 03:00 PM
But Collins doesnt put up big numbers and what big games as he ever won? Moss missed several games this year and Culpepper still had a great season so I dont think you can give Moss all the credit for Culpepper being great. I think he is one of the best QBs in the league, guess we'll see how he does with no Moss for a whole season this year, but I have the Vikings going to the Super Bowl this year so I have faith in them.

Collins thrashed Culpepper's Vikings and led his team to a SB. No Collins isn't a great QB either but I'd take him over Daunte to win a game now.

Culpepper played in 5 games where Randy was either out or in and hurt and didn't catch a pass. In those 5 games he:

-threw for 183 yds but the D held Ten to 3 points and they won.
-lost to the Giants throwing for 231 yds on 41 attempts and had 2 picks.
-lost at Indy but played well even though nhis yardage #s were down, he was 16 of 19 which is damn good w/ no INTs.
-played well against GB in close loss, threw 4 TDs and 0 INTs
-Medicore against Det but they won, 233 yards and an INt w/ 2 Tds


In those 5 games they played 2 playoff teams and lost to them both, also lost to dreadful Giants playing horribly. Beat Det & Ten. This is not proof he can produce w/o #84. Daunte and the Vikes are in trouble, I just don't get all the hype around them.

Martel
06-10-2005, 04:05 PM
By the way, even when he and Daunte were cool he said the best QB he ever played w/ was Chad Pennington.

How convenient for you. Regardless, I don't think that Pennington in college was better than Culpepper is now. Just not buying it.

Martel
06-10-2005, 04:11 PM
Collins thrashed Culpepper's Vikings and led his team to a SB. No Collins isn't a great QB either but I'd take him over Daunte to win a game now.



That was Culpeppers second year in the league I might add. Colliins is probably the most inconsistent QB in the league. 5 TD's one game, 5 picks the next. What about Dauntes rushing ability? He's a weapon. I think you are playing Devils Advocate. No way you take Collins over Daunte if it really came down to it.

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 04:12 PM
How convenient for you. Regardless, I don't think that Pennington in college was better than Culpepper is now. Just not buying it.


Pennington was a better college QB than Daunte is a pro(and he's a better Pro than Daunte) and I think randy was saying that more the way they throw the ball, command respect in the huddle and lead the team. Daunte just throws it up for Randy while Chad is a precision passer.

Martel
06-10-2005, 04:14 PM
:shakeno: Talk about being a homer to your QB.

See above post....

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 04:15 PM
That was Culpeppers second year in the league I might add. Colliins is probably the most inconsistent QB in the league. 5 TD's one game, 5 picks the next. What about Dauntes rushing ability? He's a weapon. I think you are playing Devils Advocate. No way you take Collins over Daunte if it really came down to it.

He was also great most of the year and had Cris Carter & Randy Moss to throw to w/ Robert Smith running the ball. He faded down the strech and was an embarrassment in the Championship Game. I don't think Kerry is a great QB and he's had his failures too but he has come through in the clutch a few times leading his undermanned Panther squad to an NFC Title Game and losing a much closer game to a Packer team that was a thousand times better than that Giant team and then leading the Giants to the SB. If I had a game to win I'd pick Kerry especially now that he has Randy and Daunte does not.

Prime
06-10-2005, 04:18 PM
Daunte is a much better QB then what Kerry is. Kerry is getting old and he throws to many INT. Daunte proved last year that he could still be a great QB even without Moss. Their offense was still clicking whenever Moss was hurt during them 5 or so games.

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 04:22 PM
Daunte is a much better QB then what Kerry is. Kerry is getting old and he throws to many INT. Daunte proved last year that he could still be a great QB even without Moss. Their offense was still clicking whenever Moss was hurt during them 5 or so games.

Did you see the info I posted about those 5 games? The O wasn't "clicking", he had a couple of good games(against BAD D's) but a couple of pathetic games as well.

Prime
06-10-2005, 04:27 PM
Did you see the info I posted about those 5 games? The O wasn't "clicking", he had a couple of good games(against BAD D's) but a couple of pathetic games as well.


Yes i read them, but i still think that Daunte will be a better QB then Kerry. I do believe that Kerry will put up some big numbers because of Moss being there. I guess we will have to wait and see on if Daunte still can be better QB then Kerry.

Martel
06-10-2005, 04:27 PM
Ok well we will see who puts up better numbers out of ALL THREE this year. I know who is coming in third, Chad!!

byroan
06-10-2005, 04:30 PM
By the way, even when he and Daunte were cool he said the best QB he ever played w/ was Chad Pennington.

Yeah and he said Jason Williams was a good QB. :rolleyes:

nyjunc
06-10-2005, 04:33 PM
Ok well we will see who puts up better numbers out of ALL THREE this year. I know who is coming in third, Chad!!

Daunte will always put up more TDs & Yards b/c he throws ALOT more than Chad but Chad has been more efficient and throws alot less INTs and wins more. Chad has led the NFL in passing, Daunte has not and Chad plays in a MUCH tougher division and a MUCH tougher conference.

Martel
06-10-2005, 04:44 PM
Daunte will always put up more TDs & Yards b/c he throws ALOT more than Chad but Chad has been more efficient and throws alot less INTs and wins more. Chad has led the NFL in passing, Daunte has not and Chad plays in a MUCH tougher division and a MUCH tougher conference.


First off, Daunte has played only one more season, but has played nearly twice the games and Chad out rates him only 93.7 to 93.2.

You don't even want to look at the sheer numbers.

painnotpleasure
06-10-2005, 06:16 PM
:roflmao: Moss is such a a$$ it's hilarious. He also said on Total Access that he told his agent Drew Rosenhaus, he couldn't figure out how he got traded to the Oakland Raiders for a guy he's never even heard of (Napolean Harris). :rofl: What a a$$.

byroan
06-10-2005, 06:52 PM
Now Moss is talking crap on ESPN. Someone is a bit cocky.

Prime
06-10-2005, 07:55 PM
Moss is one of the biggest jerks to play the game. I cant wait for Madison to show him who his daddy is.

nyjunc
06-11-2005, 09:28 AM
First off, Daunte has played only one more season, but has played nearly twice the games and Chad out rates him only 93.7 to 93.2.

You don't even want to look at the sheer numbers.

Daunte is all about #s, he's a fantasy QB who chokes in big games. Chad played last year w/ a torn rotator cuff on his throwing shoulder and still had a 93.7 rating while leading his team to double digit wins while Daunte had a high rating he choked the playoffs away losing 4 of 5 but luckily the NFC was so bad they got in at 8-8. Daunte is all about #s but #s don't make the QB, Daunte has better #s than Brady and you'd agree that isn't close, right? Let's se how Daunte does w/ #84 this year.


Moss is one of the biggest jerks to play the game. I cant wait for Madison to show him who his daddy is.

When Keyshawn was a Jet he owned Madison(even w/ Ray Lucas at QB), when Coles was a Jet he owned Madison. Those guys aren't close to Randy Moss, I have a feeling Madison won't be owning him.

Predaphin
06-11-2005, 01:12 PM
Him and Daunte are not cool right now, so he's taking little jabs. I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone else on planet Earth that would take Collins over Culpepper.


i think you're right, however I also think the reason he said this was because Moss likes the fact that he will get the ball more often. Daunte ran when no one was open, Kollins will be forced to throw or take a sack.

_dan24
06-12-2005, 05:50 PM
I don't disagree w/ him, I think Daunte Culpepper is highly overrated. He is a pure fantasy QB who puts up great #s and folds in big games and his #s were so good mainly b/c of #84. Any QB they put back there in the Moss era produced, even Todd Bouman had some success a few years ago when Daune was benched. Daunte Culpepper might be the most overrated player in the league.

He doesnt choke... His defense does... Look at his game break down.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4659

Only 2 games he had a QB rating below 80. The rest are GREAT. Daunte is a great QB; he has nothing to do with some of their losses.

Now look at the damn scores. ALL of them are 21 points or more that their opponents scored - Even their wins the defense gave up a lot.

Oh and that Moss comment, Randy was out a lot this year. He still tore it up. I'm not saying Moss doesn’t help. I think he's one of the best WR's in the league.

Hopefully this changes your mind about Daunte, he's NOT overrated. That's thinking with poo in your head. :)

_dan24
06-12-2005, 05:58 PM
The only reason I'd take Culpepper over Collins is b/c of age.

By the way, even when he and Daunte were cool he said the best QB he ever played w/ was Chad Pennington.

... Even if Collins was 21 I wouldn't take him.

What has he done? Yeah he got to the SB, but he choked! Saying you would take him over Culpepper is silly dude...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?statsId=3115

nyjunc
06-13-2005, 06:20 AM
He doesnt choke... His defense does... Look at his game break down.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4659

Only 2 games he had a QB rating below 80. The rest are GREAT. Daunte is a great QB; he has nothing to do with some of their losses.

Now look at the damn scores. ALL of them are 21 points or more that their opponents scored - Even their wins the defense gave up a lot.

Oh and that Moss comment, Randy was out a lot this year. He still tore it up. I'm not saying Moss doesn’t help. I think he's one of the best WR's in the league.

Hopefully this changes your mind about Daunte, he's NOT overrated. That's thinking with poo in your head. :)

Rating can be subjective, he led them to scores after the games were decided and padded his fantasy #s.

I guess you didn't see my post on page 1 detailing the game's Randy was out, they went 2-3 and he had a couple pf good games but wasn't great and coincidentally it was against 2 brutal defenses.


... Even if Collins was 21 I wouldn't take him.

What has he done? Yeah he got to the SB, but he choked! Saying you would take him over Culpepper is silly dude...


What he has done is take an underdog Panther team in year 2 tot he NFC Title Game and played a competitive game and taken a mediocre Giant team to the SB and oh by the way he thrashed Daunte's team in the NFC Title Game in '00. Daunte w/ Moss, Carter, Smith, ... couldn't score a poitn against the Giants. This was not the '86 Giants D either, this was a mediocre team in a bad conference and Daunte still couldn't score a point.

If they were similar ages I wouldn't even have to think about taking Collins over Culpepper.

_dan24
06-13-2005, 11:21 AM
Rating can be subjective, he led them to scores after the games were decided and padded his fantasy #s.

I guess you didn't see my post on page 1 detailing the game's Randy was out, they went 2-3 and he had a couple pf good games but wasn't great and coincidentally it was against 2 brutal defenses.

Rating can be subjective my ***... Why your sugar coating his sucess i have no idea....

You're right I didn't see your Moss comment.



If they were similar ages I wouldn't even have to think about taking Collins over Culpepper.

I guess thats what opinions are for.

nyjunc
06-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Rating can be subjective my ***... Why your sugar coating his sucess i have no idea....

You're right I didn't see your Moss comment.



I guess thats what opinions are for.
Sugar coating his success? He plays well in meaningless situations but falls in crunch time. I just think he is highly overrated, I can think of at least 10-15 QBs I'd rather have who put up worse #s but are better when it counts.

sn9ke.eyes
06-13-2005, 02:30 PM
Sugar coating his success? He plays well in meaningless situations but falls in crunch time. I just think he is highly overrated, I can think of at least 10-15 QBs I'd rather have who put up worse #s but are better when it counts.

Hey I think Daunte is overrated at times too, but I'd like you to name 15 current QB's you'd rather have starting for your team. Just because someone else overrates Daunte doesn't mean you need to underrate him to compensate. Lot's of good QB's have trouble in the big games.

nyjunc
06-13-2005, 02:38 PM
Hey I think Daunte is overrated at times too, but I'd like you to name 15 current QB's you'd rather have starting for your team. Just because someone else overrates Daunte doesn't mean you need to underrate him to compensate. Lot's of good QB's have trouble in the big games.


(in no particluar order)
-Brady
-Manning
-Vick
-Delhomme
-Pennington
-McNair
-Green
-Brees
-McNabb
-Favre
-Bulger
-Brad Johnson
-Collins(for this year at least)

That's 12 and I said I could name 10-15.

#84Fan4Life
06-13-2005, 03:11 PM
(in no particluar order)
-Brady
-Manning
-Vick
-Delhomme
-Pennington
-McNair
-Green
-Brees
-McNabb
-Favre
-Bulger
-Brad Johnson
-Collins(for this year at least)

That's 12 and I said I could name 10-15.

Brad Johnson over Culpepper?:rofl3: Now I've seen everything.

I could also put some question marks up for several of the other QBs you listed such as Vick, Pennington, Collins, and Favre (Favre is not the great player he once was, just look at his last 5 years in the playoffs).

nyjunc
06-13-2005, 03:18 PM
Brad Johnson over Culpepper?:rofl3: Now I've seen everything.

I could also put some question marks up for several of the other QBs you listed such as Vick, Pennington, Collins, and Favre (Favre is not the great player he once was, just look at his last 5 years in the playoffs).

Brad doesn't put up hugre numbers but he wins alot and has come through in big games unlike Daunte. Favre is not what he once was but I'd still trust him in a big spot before Daunte even though Bret hasn't fared well lately, Vivk isn't a great dropback passer yet but when he's on the field his team wins and Chad also just wins and he plays in a much tougher conference and a much tougher division.

Culpepper is purely a fantasy QB, he's just about #s and that's it. He's not a winner and now w/o Moss let's see if he can put up those #s again. If he does and if Minny goes to the NFC Title Game I might change my mind but until then he is vastly overrated and I would not want him as my QB.

#84Fan4Life
06-13-2005, 03:45 PM
Brad doesn't put up hugre numbers but he wins alot and has come through in big games unlike Daunte. Favre is not what he once was but I'd still trust him in a big spot before Daunte even though Bret hasn't fared well lately, Vivk isn't a great dropback passer yet but when he's on the field his team wins and Chad also just wins and he plays in a much tougher conference and a much tougher division.

Culpepper is purely a fantasy QB, he's just about #s and that's it. He's not a winner and now w/o Moss let's see if he can put up those #s again. If he does and if Minny goes to the NFC Title Game I might change my mind but until then he is vastly overrated and I would not want him as my QB.

While I do agree that Culpepper hasn't done a lot in the postseason he is still a great QB in my mind. If I recall correctly he hasn't had the benefit of a stellar defense which would greatly improve the overall team. Culpepper does what he can on his side of the ball (4000+ yards, 25+ TDs). It's the defense that has let him down. I remember 2 years ago when the Vikes were ahead and Josh McCown threw that TD pass to Nate Poole to win the game which knocked the Vikes out of the playoffs. That play was typical of what the defense has done much of Culpepper's career thus far. If the defense is better this year (which they should be) I can see the Vikings making a serious playoff run with Culpepper as their main reason.

nyjunc
06-13-2005, 03:52 PM
While I do agree that Culpepper hasn't done a lot in the postseason he is still a great QB in my mind. If I recall correctly he hasn't had the benefit of a stellar defense which would greatly improve the overall team. Culpepper does what he can on his side of the ball (4000+ yards, 25+ TDs). It's the defense that has let him down. I remember 2 years ago when the Vikes were ahead and Josh McCown threw that TD pass to Nate Poole to win the game which knocked the Vikes out of the playoffs. That play was typical of what the defense has done much of Culpepper's career thus far. If the defense is better this year (which they should be) I can see the Vikings making a serious playoff run with Culpepper as their main reason.

It's not just the playoffs, all they needed was 1 win the past 2 years to get into the playoffs and he couldn't deliver. He got lucky that the NFC was so bad and 2 8-8 teams got in.

yeah you can blame the Minny D for giving up the las second TD but Daunte only led Minny to 17 points against an atrocious Cardinal D that had given up 28, 44, 30, 28, 50, 20 & 28 the previous 7 weeks. On average they gave up 33 PPG going into that game and they held Daunte & Co. to 17.

This year they were in complete control of the division entering Dec yet lost 4 of 5 including falling to an awful Redskins team in Week 17 where once again he only led them to 18 points and they scored a TD and 2 pt conversion w/ 2 secs left so in reality he only led them to 10 points when it mattered.

Martel
06-13-2005, 09:26 PM
It's not just the playoffs, all they needed was 1 win the past 2 years to get into the playoffs and he couldn't deliver. He got lucky that the NFC was so bad and 2 8-8 teams got in.

yeah you can blame the Minny D for giving up the las second TD but Daunte only led Minny to 17 points against an atrocious Cardinal D that had given up 28, 44, 30, 28, 50, 20 & 28 the previous 7 weeks. On average they gave up 33 PPG going into that game and they held Daunte & Co. to 17.

This year they were in complete control of the division entering Dec yet lost 4 of 5 including falling to an awful Redskins team in Week 17 where once again he only led them to 18 points and they scored a TD and 2 pt conversion w/ 2 secs left so in reality he only led them to 10 points when it mattered.


So what is your point after all of this? Do you really think that Culpepper is just going to fall apart and have a terrible career now that Moss is gone? That ain't happening man. You put McNabb way up on the list, and I could sit and argue that he wasn't any good until T.O. got there and that he can't win the big one. So you take Kerry Collins and I'll take Culpepper.



KERRY COLLINS CAREER RATING IS 73.3

Culpepper is like 93.2. Collins has about 20 more TD's than Culpepper...

IN 5 MORE SEASONS.

But go ahead you can have him.

wazzy
06-13-2005, 09:30 PM
Collins is getting to be washed up and I think if he can't revive his career with Moss and Porter hes done and he will get the final ax which I think he deserved after he left the Giants.

Great veteran backup but still throws to many picks to be a constant starter

nyjunc
06-14-2005, 06:17 AM
So what is your point after all of this? Do you really think that Culpepper is just going to fall apart and have a terrible career now that Moss is gone? That ain't happening man. You put McNabb way up on the list, and I could sit and argue that he wasn't any good until T.O. got there and that he can't win the big one. So you take Kerry Collins and I'll take Culpepper.



KERRY COLLINS CAREER RATING IS 73.3

Culpepper is like 93.2. Collins has about 20 more TD's than Culpepper...

IN 5 MORE SEASONS.

But go ahead you can have him.


I think his #s go drastically down and he continues his choking in bigger games. This game is NOT about #s, it's about winning so yuo can give mne rating all you want but when Culpepper gets shutout by a Giant D that was not that good when he had Carter, Moss & Smith you know something is wrong. When he can't beat the Arizona Cardinals and Washington redskins in Week 17's to get into the playoffs you know something is wrong. Blame the D all you want but it starts w/ #11.