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View Full Version : The injustice that is the Heisman



Dajesus
11-24-2002, 01:58 AM
How can you give the heisman to anyone other than Larry Johnson? When did the heisman get so mixed up with the national title race? Banks is right now the leader, but has average stats compared to what has been done in the past by college football QBs. Dorsey and McGahee are in the same boat, but all 3 are on teams that will go to a BCS bowl game.

What Larry Johnson has done this year not only blows away everyone else in college football at RB, but is among the top 5 RB seasons in the past 20 years. All 5 RBs that have rushed for 2000 yards in the past 20 years have won the heisman, but none of them came any where near the ypc that Larry has this season. Larry Johnson has an 8+ ypc, the closest to him of 2000 yard backs was Barry Sanders who had a 7.6 ypc.

He is also on a team that had a sub .500 season last year, and has pretty much singlehandley lead Penn St to a 9 win season. Dorsey and McGahee in all fairness can't even be considered since they have each other, and one of the best defenses and o-lines in college football. Banks would be the only other canadate in my eyes, but he is not doing anything others haven't done in the past. You can easily compare Larry Johnson's season to the best of all time, you can't do that to Banks.

baccarat
11-24-2002, 03:00 AM
The Heisman's always been unfair, b/c half the players have 0 chance at getting it. No predominantly defensive player has ever won it. Tell me w/ a straight face that Julius Peppers did not have the best year last year.

He was also the most talented player in the draft, not that this should affect who gets the Hiesman.

Dajesus
11-24-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by booyeah_
The Heisman's always been unfair, b/c half the players have 0 chance at getting it. No predominantly defensive player has ever won it. Tell me w/ a straight face that Julius Peppers did not have the best year last year.

He was also the most talented player in the draft, not that this should affect who gets the Hiesman.

Agreed the Heisman should be changed to the best offensive college football player. The fact still remains that Larry Johnson is haveing a year that be compared to the best ever at his postion, the other players in the race can't be looked at out side of the realm of this season. You can compare what Larry Johnson is doing this year to what Barry Sanders did his senior year(argueably the best year a RB has ever had at the colligate level.) Can you compare what Banks or Dorsey are doing to what David Klingler or Ty Detmer did in college? Or even what McMahon or Young did in college? The answer is no! Their number don't compete with what the elite at qb did in this era. Larry Johnson's number not only compete with the elite, but in a few areas by pass what has been done at RB in this era.

iceblizzard69
11-24-2002, 10:25 AM
I also agree with you about Johnson. It would be a shame if he didn't get it. He broke the single game rushing record at PSU like 3 times this year, and after a 300 yard game, he has 279 yards, and didn't even play in the second half. He is amazing, and I am hearing that he may be a top 10 pick in the NFL Draft now.

minus
11-24-2002, 11:03 AM
IMO either Larry Johnson or Brad banks should receive the award but neither will win it as of right now.

Angneli
11-24-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Dajesus
All 5 RBs that have rushed for 2000 yards in the past 20 years have won the heisman, but none of them came any where near the ypc that Larry has this season. Larry Johnson has an 8+ ypc, the closest to him of 2000 yard backs was Barry Sanders who had a 7.6 ypc.


Byron Hanspard and Troy Davis both went over 2000 yards and did not win the heisman.


That is not to say that Johnson should not win it, but it (going over 2000 and not winning the Heisman) has happened before.

Dajesus
11-25-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Angneli
Byron Hanspard and Troy Davis both went over 2000 yards and did not win the heisman.


That is not to say that Johnson should not win it, but it (going over 2000 and not winning the Heisman) has happened before.

Where did they go to school? Maybe I missed a line on ESPN when they were going over the last D1 players to go over 2000. Here was their list:
Alonzo Highsmith
Barry Sanders
Kijauna Carter
Rahshad Sallam
Larry Johnson

Maybe they said players who played in a major conference.

Angneli
11-25-2002, 07:48 AM
Both were in the Big XII

Troy Davis was at Iowa St.
Hanspard was at Texas Tech

Didn't LaDanian Tomlinson go over 2000 also.

Going over 2000 yards is not the trump card that it should be if I had to pick the best 4 college football players this season it would be:

Johnson - Penn ST
Terrell Suggs - Arizona ST
Klingsbury - Texas Tech
Willis McGahee - Miami

Angneli
11-25-2002, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by booyeah_
The Heisman's always been unfair, b/c half the players have 0 chance at getting it. No predominantly defensive player has ever won it. Tell me w/ a straight face that Julius Peppers did not have the best year last year.

He was also the most talented player in the draft, not that this should affect who gets the Hiesman.

Charles Woodson was mostly Defense when he won it. I could see Peppers having a case for the Heisman, but Roy Williams should have won it.

baccarat
11-30-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Angneli
Charles Woodson was mostly Defense when he won it. I could see Peppers having a case for the Heisman, but Roy Williams should have won it.

If it weren't for him playing WR and returning, no way Woodson would have won it. Let's just say, for the sake of arguement, Woodson played only defense. In +60 years of giving out the award, shouldn't there be a better balance between defense and offense?

Dajesus
12-03-2002, 05:03 AM
i think where they are killing the award is to have a legitame shot you have to be in the top 10. This is just in the past 3 years, but it sucks. The award is given to the best college football player, not the best college football player on a top 10 team. I am curious if Barry Sanders or Ricky Williams would still have won the award since they did not play for great teams.

Angneli
12-05-2002, 12:10 AM
Barry Sander's team was ranked as High as # 4 and finished the season at # 10. I agree with you on williams though.

SMadison29
12-19-2002, 03:43 AM
Kingsbury is garbage, I wish you people would quit regarding him as a top not player. If it weren't for that dink & dunk offense of Texas Tech's his #'s wouldn't be note worthy.

Heisman justice was served. Palmer played the toughest schedule in the nation, & lit up everyone. Palmer's stats his past 6 games for comp-att-yards-comp%-TDs were better than Banks' for the entire year, so that took Banks out of the equation.

Johnson had 2000 yards, big deal. Must be nice to play scrubs in 8 of those games to do so.

Dajesus
12-19-2002, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by SMadison29
Kingsbury is garbage, I wish you people would quit regarding him as a top not player. If it weren't for that dink & dunk offense of Texas Tech's his #'s wouldn't be note worthy.

Heisman justice was served. Palmer played the toughest schedule in the nation, & lit up everyone. Palmer's stats his past 6 games for comp-att-yards-comp%-TDs were better than Banks' for the entire year, so that took Banks out of the equation.

Johnson had 2000 yards, big deal. Must be nice to play scrubs in 8 of those games to do so.

Seriously how can you say 4600 yards and 42 TDS isn't note worthy. He played a very very very tough schedule. Tex, Oaklahoma, Ohio St, Col, Iwoa St and the rest of the big 12. He hit up Ohio st for 300 yards and 3 tds. That is the best defense in college football we are talking about. He killed Texas for 500 yards and 6 tds.

Palmer played some high ranked teams, but didn't put up the numbers against the big teams. You said it your self he passed for 3/4 of his stats in the last 6 games. A schedule that included UCLA, Az, Standford, Oregon(worst D in college football), and Wash. Where were his stats against the ranked teams he played early on? They weren't there! He started the season against 3 ranked opponets. He threw for 300 against Aub, but had 1 td 2 ints. 180 yards against Col 1 td 1int. Forget the other game, but his stats were 200 yards 2 tds 2 ints. Yes he killed Notre Dame, but that team almost lost to the 2 win team from Navy 2 weeks prior, and got toasted by the power house that is BC. I just don't think a PAC 10 QB throwing for the exact same stats 4 other QBs in the conference passed for is very impressive.

SMadison29
12-19-2002, 03:25 PM
<<Seriously how can you say 4600 yards and 42 TDS isn't note worthy.>>

I didnt say that. I said that if it weren't for that dink & dunk offense of Texas Tech's his #'s wouldn't be note worthy. Big difference. His #'s are note worthy, which is why everyone makes a big fuss about him, but he isn't that good. I must commend him on his decision making though.

Dajesus
12-20-2002, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by SMadison29
<<Seriously how can you say 4600 yards and 42 TDS isn't note worthy.>>

I didnt say that. I said that if it weren't for that dink & dunk offense of Texas Tech's his #'s wouldn't be note worthy. Big difference. His #'s are note worthy, which is why everyone makes a big fuss about him, but he isn't that good. I must commend him on his decision making though.

So, Gannon's season shouldn't be taken to seriously? That is the biggest lode of crap i have ever heard. 4600 yards and 42 TDs is amazing no matter what type of offense you run. Even more when you have no other talent around you while playing in 1 of the toughest conferences in college football.

SMadison29
12-20-2002, 03:06 PM
<<So, Gannon's season shouldn't be taken to seriously? That is the biggest lode of crap i have ever heard. >>

Did I ever say that? You need to quit putting words in my mouth & comprehend what I type. Also there's a big difference between Gannon & Kingsbury, Gannon can throw deep. It's obvious that you've never seen Kingsbury play or you would know that.

Dajesus
12-20-2002, 03:34 PM
You have been saying a dink and dunk QB shouldn't be taken seriously. Gannon is a dink and dunk QB. I fail to see how that is putting words in your mouth.