Dolphins beat Jets in the draft's first round

[dolpns13]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

You haven't followed the FL long, have you? He wasn't drafted to be a career backup but again he is a bit of a project and they are bringing him along slowly. Some players are ready to start day 1, some aren't, some are forced to play day 1. Ted Ginn was a top pick last year, he didn;t start from day 1, jason Allen was your 1st rd pick 2 years ago and didn't start at all in his rookie year, Vernon Carey was your 1st rd pick in '04 and didn't start as a rookie. Some players are ready to go from day 1 and others aren't. We had 2 starters at OLB when we drafted him, he was not drafted to be the starter this year.

All due respect, (aside from injury) if the 6th overall pick isnt starting day 1, you got some problems. Every top 10 pick should be a starter.

Jake Long, starting
Chris Long, Starting
Matt Ryan, Starting
Darren McFadden, Starting
Glenn Dorsey, Would be starting had it been for an injury. Should starting week 2
Gholston, Nope
Sedrick Ellis, Starting
Derrick Harvey, Who knows (but only because of a holdout)
Keith Rivers, Starting
Jerrod Mayo, Now that NE released Hobson, Starting

Others, Johnathon Stewart is starting, Ryan Clady is starting, Chris Williams is starting, Joe Flacco is starting... Even 3rd rd pick Kevin Smith is starting.

Just admit that Gholston cant hack it yet

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by dolpns13

All due respect, (aside from injury) if the 6th overall pick isnt starting day 1, you got some problems. Every top 10 pick should be a starter.

Jake Long, starting
Chris Long, Starting
Matt Ryan, Starting
Darren McFadden, Starting
Glenn Dorsey, Would be starting had it been for an injury. Should starting week 2
Gholston, Nope
Sedrick Ellis, Starting
Derrick Harvey, Who knows (but only because of a holdout)
Keith Rivers, Starting
Jerrod Mayo, Now that NE released Hobson, Starting

Others, Johnathon Stewart is starting, Ryan Clady is starting, Chris Williams is starting, Joe Flacco is starting... Even 3rd rd pick Kevin Smith is starting.

Just admit that Gholston cant hack it yet

We have 2 starters who are good players. This guy is changing schemes and positions, what do you want out of him? Ronnie Brown wouldn't have been starting in '05 if Ricky wasn't suspended and he was a top 5 pick.

In '07 Russell didn't start day 1 and neither did Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams and Ted Ginn.

In '06 reggie Bush didn't start day 1 and neither did Vince Young, Donte Whitner and Matt Leinart.

Just b/c most of the too 10 guys are starting this year doesn't mean anything. We shouldn't rush a guy b/c other top 10 picks are starting. Not every player develops at the same rate. We didn't draft him for need, we drafted what they felt was the best available player and that's a good situation to be in.

[dolpns13]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

We have 2 starters who are good players. This guy is changing schemes and positions, what do you want out of him? Ronnie Brown wouldn't have been starting in '05 if Ricky wasn't suspended and he was a top 5 pick.

Ronnie Brown did start, thats the point, and had ricky not retired and gotten suspended, its safe to say we wouldnt have drafted Ronnie.

In '07 Russell didn't start day 1 and neither did Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams and Ted Ginn. In '06 reggie Bush didn't start day 1 and neither did Vince Young, Donte Whitner and Matt Leinart.

• Your right about Gaines Adams
• Russel didnt start because he was a 6 month hold out, and he still looks like he could turn out to be a bust.
• Johnson didnt start week 1 but he started week 2. Do you forsee Gholston starting week 2? I dont.
• Ted Ginn started at KR and PR
• Reggie Bush also started week 2 and thereafter.
• Leinart didnt start because he couldnt beat out Kurt Warner. Look at lienart now, 3 years later, quickly turning into a bust.

[nyjunc]

There's no such thing as starting as a KR or PR, Ginn didn't start until you traded Chambers.

I can keep going back yar after year. Some players are ready, some aren't and some are forced into action b/c they were top picks. I'm glad wqe aren't forcing him there and making him earn it. Our 4th rd pick, Dwight Lowery, earned his starting position but Gholston ahsn't yet and I don't expect he will until next year. Look at all those indivuals drafted and see if they had good players already in front of them that they leapfrogged over? I don't think so and Gholston is behind 2 guys who recently signed lareg, long term deals. Gholston was NOT drafted to start THIS YEAR, he will be a situational pass rusher this year and if he's not ready to start by next year they we have a scoop.

[dolpns13]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

There's no such thing as starting as a KR or PR, Ginn didn't start until you traded Chambers.

I can keep going back yar after year. Some players are ready, some aren't and some are forced into action b/c they were top picks. I'm glad wqe aren't forcing him there and making him earn it. Our 4th rd pick, Dwight Lowery, earned his starting position but Gholston ahsn't yet and I don't expect he will until next year. Look at all those indivuals drafted and see if they had good players already in front of them that they leapfrogged over? I don't think so and Gholston is behind 2 guys who recently signed lareg, long term deals. Gholston was NOT drafted to start THIS YEAR, he will be a situational pass rusher this year and if he's not ready to start by next year they we have a scoop.

Agree to disagree then.. And no bias involved. I believe if a top ten pick cant get on the field theres a bigger chance for a bust.

Im still pissed our 16th pick from 2006 isnt starting. Im still pissed our 82nd pick from 2006 isnt starting either.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by dolpns13

Agree to disagree then.. And no bias involved. I believe if a top ten pick cant get on the field theres a bigger chance for a bust.

Im still pissed our 16th pick from 2006 isnt starting. Im still pissed our 82nd pick from 2006 isnt starting either.

There's absolutely a chance he'll be a bust and we knew that on draft day. We'll see what happens, I'm not worried YET b/c he's about where I expected him to be.

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Gholston was NOT drafted to start THIS YEAR,

Do you have any evidence to support this or is it pure speculation and rationalization? Can I see a quote from Mangini on draft day:

"Now Jet's fans, let's not get all excited about the pick of Gholston. We have NO PLANS to start Vernon this season. You will have to wait until at least next year to watch him start....."

Please, show me the quote.

[PeepinTom]

Look at how long it took B. Edwards, and he was a top 5 pick, I'm just saying he better show some signs of brilliance this year to avoid the bust label. Ginn looked good in the preseason, but that is all it is. I am praying for him to do better this year.

[Canadianfishfan]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

He has't played a regular season game yet, he wasn't expected to be a starter this year. He has not had a good camp or preseason but that was to be expected. Not every rookie is ready to start day 1. 2 years ago Mario Williams was called a bust before he played a down. Let's be a little patient w/ the guy, I know if he was a dolphin you would be.

I would have to agree with you on this point. I've read the reports coming out of NY and the GG forum about Gholston and selfishly I was happy about his slow development. development being the key word. Sometimes we dolphin fans forget the patience we show with our own rookies and players.

I like to look to the 3rd seasons. If he is still in the same form by then, then he doesn't finish his contract. But to be honest, you would think that most 1st rd players, and top 10 players are expect to make immediate contributions to your team. Thats got to be a little concerning for you guys right?

[kingjust30]

vernon ghoulston is a bust straight up. tedd ginn has a ton of talent and is athletic and wr is 1 of the hardest positions 2 get down. u cant compare a bust de who is just strong and has no athletisism 2 a wr. i understand why your defendind vg cause your a jets fan and i would defend him 2 if i was a jets fan but u will soon see that he is a bust

[kingjust30]

even in college vg would get a sack and than he would turn into a ghost, invisible. for example look at the ohio st vs lsu championship game, i was looking for vg the whole game cause i knew he was a top 10 pick and i couldnt find him. can some 1 who saw that championship game tell me if he was even playing or was he injured and for the jets sake i hope he was injured cause if he was playing he was the invisiblle man .

[kingjust30]

goulston the ghost we call him. i also think he was a product of laurinitus . thats the real stud on that defense. teams most likely forgot about vg and they were thinking how 2 stop the best guy on the d and vg was not him

[K-Ro25]

Originally Posted by kingjust30

vernon ghoulston is a bust straight up. tedd ginn has a ton of talent and is athletic and wr is 1 of the hardest positions 2 get down. u cant compare a bust de who is just strong and has no athletisism 2 a wr. i understand why your defendind vg cause your a jets fan and i would defend him 2 if i was a jets fan but u will soon see that he is a bust

so a WR coming to the NFL is harder then an college DE learning to play OLB in the 3-4 and stand for the first time primarily in his career? The man has yet to play a regular season game but he already is a bust when Ted Ginn who has not done anything notable for a top ten pick is still learning? When we took him he was raw, everyone knew that. Mayock said it, Kiper said it, NFL draftcountdown.com said it. He was a project with great measureables and upside. I want to give the kid more then one preseason but I actually have common sense

[K-Ro25]

Originally Posted by kingjust30

even in college vg would get a sack and than he would turn into a ghost, invisible. for example look at the ohio st vs lsu championship game, i was looking for vg the whole game cause i knew he was a top 10 pick and i couldnt find him. can some 1 who saw that championship game tell me if he was even playing or was he injured and for the jets sake i hope he was injured cause if he was playing he was the invisiblle man .

actually its the opposite of what you say. Many including Tressell say he played good he just was being doubled and tripled all game. KNock him for disappearing but the Title game was not one. Stats dont always tell the story b/c he got numerous QB pressures.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FinfanInBuffalo

Do you have any evidence to support this or is it pure speculation and rationalization? Can I see a quote from Mangini on draft day:

"Now Jet's fans, let's not get all excited about the pick of Gholston. We have NO PLANS to start Vernon this season. You will have to wait until at least next year to watch him start....."

Please, show me the quote.

My evidence is common sense, he's a project switching positions and schemes at a position where we just signed a big FA and re-signed one of our own a year earlier. if he was great in camp he would have had a chance to start but he was not drafted to start day 1. We drafted best available player not on need, if we drafted for need then McKelvin would probably be here right now.