ESPN continues to hammer Fins’ talent level - Page 2

SpurzN703 · 07-16-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMAPHIN 22

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/c...e_the_dolphins

Isn't the point to win the Super Bowl rather then having the so called number 1 WRs core and DL in the league?

I mean, how did the NY Giants "rank" on this list last year? I guarantee you that they weren't ranked Top 10 in QBs, WRs or OL.

Enough of these power polls, season predictions and so called league's best BS. It is all irrelevant

SR 7 · 07-16-2008, 03:27 PM

HOW ARE THEY HAMMERING OUR TALENT LEVEL? STOP BEING A HOMER! ITS THE TRUTH!!!!

WOw man look at the damn roster do you see more then 15 players or 15 players that wuold be starters on a diff team or even VERY GOOD 2nd stringers? NO! at most u got 10. Our "AVERAGE" players are the ones being put into starter spots or VERY oftenly used back ups. usualy your GOOD avg players do that not ur "avg jo's" that no one picks up when u let them go in FA. u guys were on hadnots jock like he was the next coming of faneca and when i said the man blows no one listend and FA hit u guys were like "omg no one picked him up does he suck that bad" NO **** he does. he plays good 1 play then 5 players he gives up stupid *** lDlinmen penetration.

jsut b/c ur a miami fan it doenst mean we are number 1 in reality when we erally did come off a 1 adn 15 season with a bunch of FA pick up thats were for POTENTIAL based reasons.

SR 7 · 07-16-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpurzN703

Isn't the point to win the Super Bowl rather then having the so called number 1 WRs core and DL in the league?

I mean, how did the NY Giants "rank" on this list last year? I guarantee you that they weren't ranked Top 10 in QBs, WRs or OL.

Enough of these power polls, season predictions and so called league's best BS. It is all irrelevant

manning is a top 10-15 Qb for sure and they do have a good o line. ur trippin.

Shamboubou · 07-16-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR 7

HOW ARE THEY HAMMERING OUR TALENT LEVEL? STOP BEING A HOMER! ITS THE TRUTH!!!!

WOw man look at the damn roster do you see more then 15 players or 15 players that wuold be starters on a diff team or even VERY GOOD 2nd stringers? NO! at most u got 10. Our "AVERAGE" players are the ones being put into starter spots or VERY oftenly used back ups. usualy your GOOD avg players do that not ur "avg jo's" that no one picks up when u let them go in FA. u guys were on hadnots jock like he was the next coming of faneca and when i said the man blows no one listend and FA hit u guys were like "omg no one picked him up does he suck that bad" NO **** he does. he plays good 1 play then 5 players he gives up stupid *** lDlinmen penetration.

jsut b/c ur a miami fan it doenst mean we are number 1 in reality when we erally did come off a 1 adn 15 season with a bunch of FA pick up thats were for POTENTIAL based reasons.

I'm not sure that anybody is saying that we should be number one, I'm just thinking that people are looking at the fact they ranked our LB's 31 out of 32. I'm not saying our LB's are the best, but dang. You have JT and JP and that at least should be like 20 at worst. I'm usually in agreeance with you for the most part on a lot of stuff, but I do see some people's gripe with some of our rankings. Not that it really matters where we are ranked before the season starts. Its where we are once the season starts.

ih8brady · 07-16-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMountain16

I thought all ESPN did was talk about Brett Favre on Favrecenter

Awsi Dooger · 07-16-2008, 10:29 PM

The talent level is terrible. Sites like this are homer prone by definition but sometimes it's absurd.

Prior to last season I remember looking at one of the preseason books with our full roster. It was like a comedy act. I was thinking back to the years I was worried about jettisoning good players in the next to last cut. Now you've got Parcells conceding he's going to use the top slot in the waiver order maybe 4 times. So how does that threaten to equate to our talent level being swell, if the brain trust -- closed mouth by any standard -- is already looking forward to other teams' castoffs?

All you have to do is look at the devastating stats of our recent drafts, going back to 2000 or whatever, the paltry number of remaining players, the guys who should be in their prime. That alone screams the talent level has to stink. Sometimes this isn't too complicated.

It's no different with the Canes. Both teams more or less mirrored each other with personnel collapse. Fans thrilled to blame the coaching. In fact, I'm still waiting for Kyle Wright to surge to star status via improved coaching. There must have been 400 related threads on Canes message boards over the last 3 seasons.

Once Shannon brought in the great freshman class this year, many from Miami Northwestern plus guys like Arthur Brown, Canes fans almost instantly turned the page and looked forward to the upswing in talent level. I don't see the absurd threads insisting the personnel was fine all along. Heck, you can check the decline in number of top draft picks as a direct reference point.

Dolphin fans similarly need to toss the rose colored glasses. The tiny number of Pro Bowlers or even Pro Bowl threats, and the low ranking in unit ranking or individual player ranking, that's pure merit. Enjoy the upturn but don't pretend we're starting from a point alongside everyone else.

phinphan4life · 07-16-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamboubou

I'll give you that coaching may have been 35% of the problem here, injuries probably about another 25% because much of our young talent was injured last year. QB play and O-Line was about 20% of our problem, Age of our players 15%, and just the pure lack of talent around about 10%. We have some talent on this team, that needs the opportunity to shine. I do agree its more about having a team than it is about having talent. We have young talent on the O-Line, WR, QB, and RB. Our defensive side of the ball still leaves some to be wanting for, but I think they are a solid group, they arn't going to be great this year, but they will be solid.

I think we are a little better than the rankings we scored, but on the same hand you cant give a team that just went 1-15 great rankings.

Umm... that's 105%. Sorry, couldn't resist.

FinHopeful · 07-16-2008, 11:54 PM

All great coaches and GMs agree that the NFL is a talent acquisition business. The talent level for a team is very important. All great coaches understand that games are won by taking advantage of mismatches. The Giants beat the Patriots, a team with a better roster, because the defensive line rotation for the Giants was vastly superior to the offensive line for the Patriots. The most talented team is not assured of a win.

The reason that rankings like the ESPN one are not good predictors of the 4-12 to the 10-6 team is that they do not address functional talent of a roster with respect to the team's identity. We do not have a talent filled roster, but it does meet the functional talent criteria of a 8-8 team.

Our offense has an identity of smash mouth football. The offensive line looks capable of delivering on this strategy. Wilford is a better than average run blocker for a WR. Also, he was one of the best in the NFL last year at converting 3rd downs under tight coverage. This is very important for a run first offense. Ted Ginn has the potential to make opponents pay big time if they load the box against the run. I am confident that the new defensive alignment and talent will plug our porous run defense. This was the fatal flaw with the defense last year. Our secondary is vastly underrated, so we could surprise some teams early in the season. I am looking forward to the season.

evenflow58 · 07-17-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlockz

I do think they are quite wrong on our linebackers which should be the strength of the defense this year. A foursome of Crowder, Torbor, Porter and Taylor should be pretty damn solid especially with Akinoyle(too lazy to look it up), Anderson and Moses as backups.

Can you assume we'll have JT this year? He hasn't exactly been Mr. Miami this offseason. Also, how is he going to do at the LB position? He played it a bit under Saban, but he also played most of the time on the line. It sounds like we are going with a 3-4 rather than the 3-4/4-3 Saban ran. How will that expose JT? How much is he going to give if this is his last year and he's playing for a team that won't make the playoffs? At this point I think the only LB that isn't a question mark is Porter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelthepain

Are there any coaches in your world? It seems you think it's all about talent.

The article was about talent, not coaching. Yes, better coaching helps, but to use an overused phrase, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****".

Shamboubou · 07-17-2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phinphan4life

Umm... that's 105%. Sorry, couldn't resist.

By Golly your correct!!!

Wildbill3 · 07-17-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamboubou

By Golly your correct!!!

I was like surely he had out his calculator.... Lol you're forgiven tho because of your awesome avatar.

SR 7 · 07-17-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamboubou

By Golly your correct!!!

who is that chick? looks like a remix of of jessica alba

z0eboy · 07-18-2008, 02:55 AM

theres not much consistantcy to build off and we had the worst record in the nfl last season, give me a break

Brassmonki14120 · 07-23-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Are there any coaches in your world? It seems you think it's all about talent. I think it's more about coaching. The Ginats didn't win the SB because they were more talented then the Pats, they won because thye out coached the Pats.

BB is a great HC, smart, detail oriented, disciplined to an extent. However he's also extremely arrogant. The Pats lost the SB because BB thought they were so much better then the Giants that the Pats didn't need to show the Giants the respect they deserved. Classic example of being over confident costing them the championship. That's clearly the coaching.

Miami was 1-15 due the worst coaching job I've ever seen, not because the talent level. We still managed to finish better then several teams statistically even though we had the worst record. Miami's defense was in some sort of flux, trying things they shouldn't have been trying. Playing players out of position, playing between the 3-4 and 4-3. We were ill prepared for the season, players out of shape, player no prepared to start...like Beck. We get rid of ST players we should have kept especially since we made such drastic changes to the coaching staff and need to be as strong as we could be in all aspects of our team. Cam just came in and made changes that left this team in disarray.

Miami was 1-15 due to the coaching decisions more then any other reason in 07. Teams that go from worst to first in one season do so more from structure and good coaching, then player talent. Bring in a stable atmosphere and a focus with good work ethic and you'll see almost instant improvements. Most of the players in the NFL can play at this level, it's up to the coaches to use that talent efficiently to maximize the winning

The Giants won the Super Bowl because their D-Line was deep and they kept sending fresh guys in to blitz brady all game. They also ate up the clock to keep the ball out of the Bradys hands. No genius coaching at all.

Miami was 1-15 but coaching was just a small part of it. The Phins have been passing good players and picking up the cream of the crap for the past few years. That helped lead to the dismal 2007 season.

Two words, Brady Quinn. An offense could have been built around him.

Instead the phins picked up Ted Ginn jr. with the 9th overall pick in the draft. A player in possibly the worst Wide Reciever corps is the league and he isn't even good enough to be the #1.

evenflow58 · 07-23-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brassmonki14120

Two words, Brady Quinn. An offense could have been built around him.

Instead the phins picked up Ted Ginn jr. with the 9th overall pick in the draft. A player in possibly the worst Wide Reciever corps is the league and he isn't even good enough to be the #1.

You don't know that. Quinn could be just as bad as any QB we had last year behind that line.

Also, conventional thought is that WR have about 3 years to show what they're worth.

How you can judge a player after one year, especially on a team as bad as Miami is, is beyond me.

07-16-2008, 03:27 PM	#17
SR 7 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,799 Credits: 9,087 Thanks: 461 Thanked 253 Times in 160 Posts	HOW ARE THEY HAMMERING OUR TALENT LEVEL? STOP BEING A HOMER! ITS THE TRUTH!!!! WOw man look at the damn roster do you see more then 15 players or 15 players that wuold be starters on a diff team or even VERY GOOD 2nd stringers? NO! at most u got 10. Our "AVERAGE" players are the ones being put into starter spots or VERY oftenly used back ups. usualy your GOOD avg players do that not ur "avg jo's" that no one picks up when u let them go in FA. u guys were on hadnots jock like he was the next coming of faneca and when i said the man blows no one listend and FA hit u guys were like "omg no one picked him up does he suck that bad" NO ** he does. he plays good 1 play then 5 players he gives up stupid * lDlinmen penetration. jsut b/c ur a miami fan it doenst mean we are number 1 in reality when we erally did come off a 1 adn 15 season with a bunch of FA pick up thats were for POTENTIAL based reasons. __________________ Die Hard Miami Dolphins and Los Angeles Lakers Fan. Quick Wishlist: FA - Mcfadden, Dunta Robinson (If Aso or Gamble are out) Draft - Curry, Sintim, Johnson (FS), Cody. "Joe Montana was a product of a system, Dan Marino was a system." -- Bill Walsh

07-18-2008, 02:55 AM	#28
z0eboy Rookie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: miami, fl Posts: 16 Credits: 1,102 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	theres not much consistantcy to build off and we had the worst record in the nfl last season, give me a break __________________ www.myspace.com/sportmyblog

07-16-2008, 10:29 PM	#21
Awsi Dooger Haig Ultra Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,419 Credits: 7,190 Thanks: 86 Thanked 102 Times in 72 Posts	The talent level is terrible. Sites like this are homer prone by definition but sometimes it's absurd. Prior to last season I remember looking at one of the preseason books with our full roster. It was like a comedy act. I was thinking back to the years I was worried about jettisoning good players in the next to last cut. Now you've got Parcells conceding he's going to use the top slot in the waiver order maybe 4 times. So how does that threaten to equate to our talent level being swell, if the brain trust -- closed mouth by any standard -- is already looking forward to other teams' castoffs? All you have to do is look at the devastating stats of our recent drafts, going back to 2000 or whatever, the paltry number of remaining players, the guys who should be in their prime. That alone screams the talent level has to stink. Sometimes this isn't too complicated. It's no different with the Canes. Both teams more or less mirrored each other with personnel collapse. Fans thrilled to blame the coaching. In fact, I'm still waiting for Kyle Wright to surge to star status via improved coaching. There must have been 400 related threads on Canes message boards over the last 3 seasons. Once Shannon brought in the great freshman class this year, many from Miami Northwestern plus guys like Arthur Brown, Canes fans almost instantly turned the page and looked forward to the upswing in talent level. I don't see the absurd threads insisting the personnel was fine all along. Heck, you can check the decline in number of top draft picks as a direct reference point. Dolphin fans similarly need to toss the rose colored glasses. The tiny number of Pro Bowlers or even Pro Bowl threats, and the low ranking in unit ranking or individual player ranking, that's pure merit. Enjoy the upturn but don't pretend we're starting from a point alongside everyone else.

07-16-2008, 11:54 PM	#23
FinHopeful Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 345 Credits: 1,190 Thanks: 111 Thanked 76 Times in 32 Posts	All great coaches and GMs agree that the NFL is a talent acquisition business. The talent level for a team is very important. All great coaches understand that games are won by taking advantage of mismatches. The Giants beat the Patriots, a team with a better roster, because the defensive line rotation for the Giants was vastly superior to the offensive line for the Patriots. The most talented team is not assured of a win. The reason that rankings like the ESPN one are not good predictors of the 4-12 to the 10-6 team is that they do not address functional talent of a roster with respect to the team's identity. We do not have a talent filled roster, but it does meet the functional talent criteria of a 8-8 team. Our offense has an identity of smash mouth football. The offensive line looks capable of delivering on this strategy. Wilford is a better than average run blocker for a WR. Also, he was one of the best in the NFL last year at converting 3rd downs under tight coverage. This is very important for a run first offense. Ted Ginn has the potential to make opponents pay big time if they load the box against the run. I am confident that the new defensive alignment and talent will plug our porous run defense. This was the fatal flaw with the defense last year. Our secondary is vastly underrated, so we could surprise some teams early in the season. I am looking forward to the season.