ESPN continues to hammer Fins’ talent level

[aleta]

Originally Posted by Lappy

I don't believe in Luck. I believe it's preparedness meeting opportunity.

Losing all those close games last year made me question how prepared this team was to playing.

Football is the ultimate team game and you can take any group of guys if they are prepared enough they come out with those close ones.

In this same site, 2 years ago, guys make me beleive in Santa and the 3 magic Kings again. Even the whise didn't came true, but the las thing thing that you loss in anything is HOPE!! and part of the hope is been lucky. Even though you don't beleive in luck, people outnumber you by playing in the casinos or the horses or whatever gambling is on(even fantasy). Luck is part of the every day thing. You can make everything the same way and you, defenitly, will have a different outcome(maybe a huga diff or a tihy diff, but definetly a diff outcome). Went that outcome is better for you, that is what you enjoy, cause it could been gone both ways and it went YOUR way. That , my friend is call luck.
I will bet all i have, that the SP cash made by the Giant receiver at the end of the game is not preparation, because i asure you, they never pratices cashes like that, that is call agility and YES a little bit of LUCK!!, cause if somebody put a hand a couple of inches away, the outcome would diff, A LOT DIFF.

[Brassmonki14120]

Originally Posted by evenflow58

Just because a QB is drafted in the second round does not mean he can't play. BP's last QB wasn't even drafted, yet won the starting spot. I don't think Henne was picked to sit on the on the bench, but rather compete with 2 other QBs for the starting spot. I'm a bit unclear as to why you seem to be discounting Beck because he was taken in the 2nd round, but you claim Henne will be the starter next year, or the year after, when he was taken in the 2nd round.

I never said a QB taken in the second round couldn't play. I think that passing on Quinn in the first round and then taking beck in the second was a huge mistake.

I will say however that from what Beck has shown on a pro football field that he is not worthy of being a #1 QB. BP is going to let him have a shot behind an O-line just learning to play together. If Beck gets slaughtered it's no big deal because he's still keeping his QB of the future, Henne, safe on the sideline where he can watch and learn from a safe vantage point.

Beck will be lucky to be the Phins #2 3 years from now.

[evenflow58]

Originally Posted by Brassmonki14120

I never said a QB taken in the second round couldn't play. I think that passing on Quinn in the first round and then taking beck in the second was a huge mistake.

I will say however that from what Beck has shown on a pro football field that he is not worthy of being a #1 QB. BP is going to let him have a shot behind an O-line just learning to play together. If Beck gets slaughtered it's no big deal because he's still keeping his QB of the future, Henne, safe on the sideline where he can watch and learn from a safe vantage point.

Beck will be lucky to be the Phins #2 3 years from now.

I read this:

Originally Posted by Brassmonki14120

The offense is being created around Beck not for him. Beck was drafted in the 2nd round of last years draft. If I were BP I would look at it as someone elses mistake and let Beck and McCown be the backfield tackling dummies this season while the offense learns so play together as a unit.

and came to the conclusion that you were using the fact that Beck picked in the 2nd round that he was no good. I couldn't figure out another reason for that sentence.

I would not say that Beck has proven he is not a capable QB, I would say he's proven that he can't carry a team as bad as the Dolphins in his rookie year and I don't think you'd find many QBs that could do so. The fact of the matter is that every QB needs help from an offensive line and WR and Beck got little help in those areas. I would like to see him in a few games this year assuming the OLine has improved enough where he is not running for his life. Then you can get an accurate estimate of what he brings to the table. If he can't get the job done by all means find somebody who can, I just don't like the fact that people have completely made up their mind about him after playing 4 games in rotten conditions, and I'm not referring to the weather.

You're also assuming Henne will be good when we've seen nothing of him at a pro level. He did well at Michigan, but then again he always had plenty of time and some of the best athletes on the field along with him. Couple that with the fact that he played in a weak Big 10 and it's easy to see that his stats could be inflated. Hopefully that's not the case, but it's entirely possible that Henne is not a good QB.

I think everybody would be wise to wait and see how these players do for a year or so before making decisions. See Ronnie Brown and (as it is looking) Jason Allen.

[Brassmonki14120]

Originally Posted by evenflow58

I read this:



and came to the conclusion that you were using the fact that Beck picked in the 2nd round that he was no good. I couldn't figure out another reason for that sentence.

I would not say that Beck has proven he is not a capable QB, I would say he's proven that he can't carry a team as bad as the Dolphins in his rookie year and I don't think you'd find many QBs that could do so. The fact of the matter is that every QB needs help from an offensive line and WR and Beck got little help in those areas. I would like to see him in a few games this year assuming the OLine has improved enough where he is not running for his life. Then you can get an accurate estimate of what he brings to the table. If he can't get the job done by all means find somebody who can, I just don't like the fact that people have completely made up their mind about him after playing 4 games in rotten conditions, and I'm not referring to the weather.

You're also assuming Henne will be good when we've seen nothing of him at a pro level. He did well at Michigan, but then again he always had plenty of time and some of the best athletes on the field along with him. Couple that with the fact that he played in a weak Big 10 and it's easy to see that his stats could be inflated. Hopefully that's not the case, but it's entirely possible that Henne is not a good QB.

I think everybody would be wise to wait and see how these players do for a year or so before making decisions. See Ronnie Brown and (as it is looking) Jason Allen.

My bad, I was just thinking that BP could start last years 2nd round pick @ QB because everyone wants to see him on the field. If he plays horribly then it's no sweat for BP because Beck wasn't HIS pick. Let him play and take a beating while the New O-line learns to play together.

The O-line wont shine early in the season, it's not that they suck but because they wont have any real game experience as a unit.

This years O-Line may look allot like last years for the first part of the season. Whoever the QB is he will take a pretty good beating early on.

I wasn't impressed with anything Beck did last year. I didn't see any confidence in his play. The gamed look too fast for him. Now, one year later, I don't think he can gain any confidence behind a line that will struggle as they develop.

[Brassmonki14120]

BP brought in some talent. Not big name but real football players. Right now they are teammates but it will take a little while before they become a team.

Schedule-

Home vs Jets: Loss. Jets O-line will own Phins D-line. Phins playing catch-up all day.

@ Arizona: Loss. Phins run well but Zona airs it to victory.

@ Pats: Loss.

Home vs San Diego: Loss.

@ Houston: Even. Below average secondary will be missing Derrick Robinson (still rehabbing), Ronning & Ricky will eat them up as Houstons Linbackers are forced to play honest.

Home vs Baltimore:Loss. Ravens Defense will cause Phin injuries, Ravens D will put points on the board.

Home vs Buffalo: Loss. I'm a Bills fan and I'll just leave it at that.

@ Denver: Win. Ground game kills the Broncos.

Home vs Seattle: Loss. Defense Shuts Phins down.

Home vs Oakland: Win. McCown leads the Phins to victory.

Home vs Pats: Loss

@ St. Louis: Win. Rams Defense crumbles.

@ Bills: Loss. See above.

Home vs San Fran: Loss. Close game. 49ers special teams win the game.

@ KC: Win. KC sucks.

@ Jets: Loss. Jets possibly playing for Wild Card spot.


4-12 maybe 5-11

3 or 4 years before the phins are in Wild Card contention.

[Tigers2003]

Originally Posted by dlockz

We were 1-15 last year, so the only thing they can judge us on is last year. We have not added anysurefire free agents that makes us that much better at least on paper. Starks career underachiever, loads of talent but has barely made a blip, Torbor career backup that may become Larry Brown of this superbowl, Smiley coming off a major injury and SF did not want to keep him, Wilford was replaced by Joey Porter, Nate Jones horrible coverage guy who is good on special teams, Keith Davis a poor man's Roy williams who cannot cover either.

Not saying that any of these guys will not be good, sometimes a change of scenary helps. I wanted Starks, Smiley and wilford as free agents but admit was suprised how much we gave them. Torbor seems a good pickup so many of these guys will do well here but from what they have done in past there is no reason for the media to get overhyped.

I do think they are quite wrong on our linebackers which should be the strength of the defense this year. A foursome of Crowder, Torbor, Porter and Taylor should be pretty damn solid especially with Akinoyle(too lazy to look it up), Anderson and Moses as backups.

Yes, our LBs should not be rated that low. More like hight teens to low 20s. I like the Torbot pick up too.

[MiaDolph99]

Wow there's a Bills fan hammering our QBs? Dont you need to go worry about Marshawn Lynch not hitting you with his SUV?

Just leave our QB position to the people who get paid to worry about it, and I think that John Beck has proven more then Trent Edwards. Also, our O-line unlike years passed, is pretty much set going into preseason for once, so we will play atleast mostly cohesively at the beginning of the season.

[Brassmonki14120]

Originally Posted by MiaDolph99

Wow there's a Bills fan hammering our QBs? Dont you need to go worry about Marshawn Lynch not hitting you with his SUV?

Just leave our QB position to the people who get paid to worry about it, and I think that John Beck has proven more then Trent Edwards. Also, our O-line unlike years passed, is pretty much set going into preseason for once, so we will play atleast mostly cohesively at the beginning of the season.

Was just giving an opinion.

I'm not sure why you would bring up Marshawn Lynch and Trent Edwards in the discuss the Dolphins form.

[INPHINITY]

Dude we won one game last year, BARELY... What should they say?? Be real.

[AK Tinajero]

It casue espn is all with big names and ****

[MikeO]

I'm shocked they ranked us that high.......we have little talent anywhere

[Bill C]

Originally Posted by evenflow58

I don't think Cameron took Ginn as a project player. He took him as a returner after watching what Hester did in Chicago. It should be noted that the Texans wanted to take Ginn a few spots later, which would reinforce Cameron's value of Ginn. Also, BP is taking a very similar tact in rebuilding this team. He has focused very much on special teams through most of his pickups. The difference between the two is that Cameron would have gotten slaughtered for coming out and saying he wants to rebuild while BP has the clout to be fine by saying that.

I discount WR for the first two years or so because it is the biggest jump at any position, besides QB, from college to the pros. In college a WR can get by solely on his athletic ability while route running and blocking are more crucial in the pros. I believe Ginn has the work ethic to refine his technique and be a legit threat for this team, but that's just conjecture at this point. Only time will tell.

I respectfully disagree with you here. No one from the Texans organization has EVER said they were going to pick Ginn. If you look at it, the Texans were in desperate need of defense - and that is exactly what they drafted. Cam reached HUGE for Ginn. At the #9 pick, on a horrible team, unless it is a franchise QB, the pick had better be an impact player that is at the franchise level - and Ginn isn't. Look at how much better shape we would have been in this season with Willis at MLB or Landry at S. Instead, we have Ginn at WR and that is not considered a position of strength on this team - that's not a good use of the #9 pick.

[evenflow58]

Originally Posted by Bill C

I respectfully disagree with you here. No one from the Texans organization has EVER said they were going to pick Ginn. If you look at it, the Texans were in desperate need of defense - and that is exactly what they drafted. Cam reached HUGE for Ginn. At the #9 pick, on a horrible team, unless it is a franchise QB, the pick had better be an impact player that is at the franchise level - and Ginn isn't. Look at how much better shape we would have been in this season with Willis at MLB or Landry at S. Instead, we have Ginn at WR and that is not considered a position of strength on this team - that's not a good use of the #9 pick.

I had heard stories that the Texans were looking at drafting Ginn. Unfortunately all these stories were on the TV, and mostly from Cam himself, so I can't find a link to them.

Either way I think it's too early to decide how good a pick Ginn was. Willis and Landry are both good, but how much do they have to do on their own? They have good players around them to take off some of the heat. Ginn doesn't. I think you'll see a lot more of Ginn being an impact player if he keeps returning punts for us. Parcell's is hell bent on improving special teams. Ginn has shown that he can do some damage if he gets some down field blocking. He got basically none of it last year, but should get more this year.

Landry was picked before Ginn at the #6 spots and we weren't exactly hurting for defense the year before. Cam was trying to put together a respectable offense before the defense got old. Unfortunatly it got old that year.

Ginn wasn't a franchise pick based on his first year, but his career will be longer than that.

[Bumrush]

The Ginn pick was horrible and if Quinn turns out to be an All Pro QB like I think he will be, then it will look even worse. Ginn is a serviceable return man and has some decent potential, but to pass on a franchise QB is inexcusable and set this team back years. Funny how a lot of people have VERY short memories, how can you guys forget the elation we all felt when the Phins were on the clock, people were chanting Quinn, he fell right in to our laps and after around 14.5 minutes we realized that something was up.... How about Cameron talking about what a good family Ginn came from to the smattering of boos and mockery? This is what that regime will be remembered for. A bunch of buffoons looking for a short term fix because of a hard on they had for what Hester had done the year before.

[KTOWNFINFAN]

Originally Posted by Tigers2003

Yes, our LBs should not be rated that low. More like hight teens to low 20s. I like the Torbot pick up too.

OK, I am a bit lost here. We lose Zack and JT from our LBs and replace them with backups and we are going to be low teens mid 20s?? Wow is someone drinking the coolaid or what. I feel it was a total gift rating us 31. No way we are better than the Rams at LB. We are not better than the canes for that matter. Give it time guys we have lots of holes to fill and Bill and co. will get it done but lets not fool ourselves into thinking we are only a player or two away from contention. We were 1-15 for a reason. Well a couple of reasons. Lousy coaching and lack of decent drafting for the last decade.
We are not a 7-9 team this year if things go unbelievably well. We will have a top 3-4 pick in next years draft.