If the FO starts anyone other than Beck, they are MORONS. - Page 2

BLITZKRIEG · 07-16-2008, 04:42 PM

It should be a close battle in training camp, but once pre-season starts, I think we'll begin to see McCown emerge as the best / most comfortable QB out of the current bunch. His experience should give him a distinct advantage over the other QB's, and although I have no true preference, I think McCown is the safest choice, and will ultimately win the job....

IN TUNA WE TRUST....

MarinoFishHead · 07-16-2008, 04:52 PM

Lets not forget the dude just had stitches in his hand for almost chopping his finger off. I'm anxious to see what all 3 will do to be honest. I am biased towards Beck, but intrigued by Henne's learning ability. It will be fun to watch that's for sure. I really like Henne's drop back and setup before he throws. That stuck out a lot when I watched the highlights from his days in MI.

Marino613 · 07-16-2008, 05:14 PM

This whole train of thought assumes that none of the 3 QBs will actually clearly win the starting job through solid play. If only one of our QBs plays well, I think it would be moronic to start someone else. It is not like we have invested the house on one of our QBs. While it would be nicer if one of the younger QBs stepped up, if McCown actually steps up (as unlikely as that may be -- it's not like brought it in training camp at oakland last year), of course you start him.

Then, in the season, if he doesn't pan out, you bench him for one of the other two. But of course start a guy if he is playing well.

Marino613 · 07-16-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geforce

You should start a rookie QB only if they have players around them to take off some of the pressure of being a starting QB in the NFL.

I agree.

Part of the problem in my humble and perhaps misinformed opinion is that QB is too important a linchpin position to experiment with on a team with so many question marks. You put in the guy that gives you the best chance to run the offense smoothly so that your young WRs, OL, questionable RBs (injury/focus/rookies) have a chance to learn the system and develop. If the QB play isn't adequate, you not only have question marks at that position, but potentially at every other position on the offense because you never had the chance to see them play. Therefore you put the QB that played best in this offense out there, and that can only be based on the limited information of TC and pre-season at this point. If that QB doesn't play well, you switch down the line.

If that happens to be McCown, I would rather give the young guys (and Beck is still young) a chance to learn the new system and watch while the team gels before putting them in rather than start day 1 with someone who has showed they are not fully prepared. Assuming McCown doesn't pull a rich gannon on us (although that would be awesome if highly unlikely), We will probably see one of the other potentials go in later in the game anyway.

If everyone plays equally well, or equally poorly (God I hope not), than that is a different conversation. Perhaps McCown because his experience may make a difference and because it gives the young guys a chance to study more. I would probably go with Beck to see what he has got.

dreamwalker · 07-16-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Wilson

No you don't play who gives us the best chance to win. I don't care if McCown edges out John Beck in the preseason, it's pretty obvious he's not our QB.

I know it's been said already, but we need to see what John Beck has. If he looks like a complete idiot a couple games in throw in Henne. What is McCown going to do for us realistaclly.

And somebody answer me this cause I hear it all the time: how the hell does is stunt your growth as a player to start as a rookie? If anything that should give you a feel for the game no?

Just so you know that is a page straight out of the dave wannstedt school of coaching.

It isnt about the player that gives us the best chance of winning.
It isnt about being the so called future of the franchise.
and it definatly isnt about who was whose hand picked baby.

Whoever is the best in camp
should win the job....

and if its not done that way then you can start the justified complaining.

FriendofBill · 07-16-2008, 06:05 PM

Ah yes, the classic "Just throw him out there and see what he has" argument. I can't think of a philosophy that has ruined more young QB's and has kept more bad franchises in perpetual rebuilding mode.

WVdolphan · 07-16-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlockz

People you do realize we start off the season with the same record as anybody else. We need to start the qb that performs best in preseason and training camp, we dont need to just give away games early in the year to see what somebody has. If our coaches start Beck and he did not outplay the other two qb's than they are definately morons but they have stated from the beginning that all three qb's have a chance so they seem to be much smarter than given credit for.

Seriously. Its like people cant get enough of starting off a season so poorly that the last 10 games are meaningless. Im sick of it. 2 years in a row is 2 more than I needed to see. No more total garbage to start the season. If Beck dosent give any indications that he can go out there and win games then there is no way they should put him out there "just to see what they have." Im tired of that STUPID ****ing argument. Its the worst.

You put guys out there TO WIN GAMES not "just to see what they have". Thats why you have preseason and thats what camps and games in the regular season if you are unfortunate enough to be mathematically eliminated before the season is over are for. Besides, didnt we already do that last season with Beck? We were totally out of it so we thought we would take a look and see what we had. Well we saw it. He's garbage. NEXT!!! Jesus ****ing christ with this ****. See what we have. Get the **** outta here.

Start the QB that gives us the best chance to WIN. If its Beck, Henne, or McCown it dosent matter. The goal is to win games and persue a title just like everyone else. Everyone is 0-0. If we get mathematically eliminated......then lets go ahead and "see what we have." Those type of games are better for that anyway because you often play teams who are still playing for something, whereas in preseason no one really gives a **** other than guys trying to make rosters.

We saw Beck start 4 games last year against teams giving it their best. He looked like pure ****. We can look at him some more later on in the year if we get ousted or if the guy chosen to start completely blows. If that happens we will probably be out of it anyway. The only time Beck looked any good was when we played another team with nothing to play for that was ready to go home in the final week and he didnt even look good really then.

Im really sick of hearing this horse**** about Beck. If he goes out there and knocks everyones socks off in camp and preseason then by all means start him. Otherwise hand him the clip board and we will see ya if were eliminated.

WVdolphan · 07-16-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rev kev

"Moron" is a strong word and if anyone thinks that Beck had not been scrutinized at nausea prior to the Henne drafting they are a fool... The FO knows what they have in Beck... Has he floored hell no but..., likely a career back-up mop up guy... Bill is looking for MOJO... Beck lacks that... prof is in the pudding they drafted appeals to me as a physical favre clone instead of a CB or WR... FO ain't as stupid as the finheaven clones think...

Nice post.

sn9ke.eyes · 07-16-2008, 06:18 PM

The best player in camp / pre-seasion needs to start. If you start the other guy and he doesn't pan out, your whole team will buck up on you because you are playing favorites.

I do hope that the Beck outplays the other 2 and wins the job because I think he's the logical starting point for developing a legit QB for this team. IMO McCown doesn't have what it takes to be good or great in the NFL. Henne I would think probably isn't ready yet, but if he outplays Beck and McCown, then start him.

outlawd2u · 07-16-2008, 06:28 PM

I agree with the original poster to a certain extent. I think it should basically be Becks job to lose. If Beck does horrible then he should not play but if it's even or real close then BEck should get the edge over McCown. I just do not see any kind of future in Miami for McCown and IMO it makes little sense to let him play if he is just slightly better than one of our young guns. Afterall If Mccown is only slightly better then that's more of a discredit to McCown than it is to Beck. McCown has been in the league long enough where he probably has reached his potential, if either Beck or Henne come in and are almost on McCown's level then they will almost undoubtably surpass him because neither are anywhere near their prime.

FriendofBill · 07-16-2008, 06:34 PM

The problem with the "just throw him out there and see what you have" philosophy is that usually you're throwing a quarterback out there who has no business seeing the field, and it's usually done by bad franchises who don't have the ability to surround their QBs with much of a supporting cast in the first place. When predictably he looks completely clueless, it's hard to unsee what has been seen and he's unfairly evaluated by fans and the organization. Parcells didn't start Tony Romo until year 4, and he s has stated over and over again that he would have ruined him if he forced him out there any sooner.

Beck played in a spread offense in college. QB's that played in that kind of system need one year of just riding the bench just to get down the fundamentals. By year 2, they need another year of riding the bench just to adjust to the speed of the game and the complexities of an NFL offense. They shouldn't even compete for a starting job until Year 3. Yes, he may be old for a 2nd year player and he may have been a high draft pick, but its neither Beck or the current Dolphins FO's problem that the previous regime overdrafted him.

cowboy82nd · 07-16-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Wilson

All I'm saying is if McCown couldn't get it done in the weak *** NFC with that supporting cast, you think he's going to get it done here? Maybe he'll make me eat my words but I don't see that happening.

Some of you dudes who are saying, "we should start whoever gives us the best chance to win" are the same dudes saying "just say no to favre" and favre gives us a better chance to win then anyone on the roster.

But Favre is NOT on our roster. What do you want to give up to get him, a first round draft pick? I say, let's say what we have. Let's start training camp and see if we have anybody that can play quarterback.

X-Pacolypse · 07-16-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Wilson

All I'm saying is if McCown couldn't get it done in the weak *** NFC with that supporting cast, you think he's going to get it done here? Maybe he'll make me eat my words but I don't see that happening.

Look, I don't think anybody with a straight face can honestly say that Josh "OUCH, my finger!" McClown is the answer at quarterback for the Miami Dolphins. If John Beck is unable to win the starting job, then McClown is pretty much just a seat warmer until Chad Henne is ready to take control of the offense.

Ross · 07-16-2008, 07:57 PM

I think the FO has already made the decision. They took a QB with their third pick instead of their first pick and picked up a struggling jorneyman bench-sitting QB in the offseason. That doesn't sound like a FO staff trying to find a QB with the MoJo. That sounds like a FO trying to build depth at the position.

They already feel they have their QB with the MoJo...

JsBaugh · 07-16-2008, 08:30 PM

The only think Im sure of is if its a tie between Beck and McCown in camp/preseason then Beck will get the start. No reason not to.
If Henne can come in and Beat out both Beck and McCown then he deserves to start. The odds of that happening are a million to one. One reason I say that is Henne was third in OTA's and Minicamp and unless he has figured out his accuracy issues I dont see him as a factor this year.

07-16-2008, 04:52 PM	#17
MarinoFishHead Pro Bowler Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Age: 26 Posts: 125 Credits: 1,219 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Lets not forget the dude just had stitches in his hand for almost chopping his finger off. I'm anxious to see what all 3 will do to be honest. I am biased towards Beck, but intrigued by Henne's learning ability. It will be fun to watch that's for sure. I really like Henne's drop back and setup before he throws. That stuck out a lot when I watched the highlights from his days in MI. __________________ “Once I see that end zone and nobody's in front of me, I've got to go,” -Ted Ginn

07-16-2008, 06:18 PM	#24
sn9ke.eyes Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 578 Credits: 1,089 Thanks: 24 Thanked 38 Times in 27 Posts	The best player in camp / pre-seasion needs to start. If you start the other guy and he doesn't pan out, your whole team will buck up on you because you are playing favorites. I do hope that the Beck outplays the other 2 and wins the job because I think he's the logical starting point for developing a legit QB for this team. IMO McCown doesn't have what it takes to be good or great in the NFL. Henne I would think probably isn't ready yet, but if he outplays Beck and McCown, then start him. __________________

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07-16-2008, 05:14 PM	#18
Marino613 FinHeaven VIP Join Date: May 2008 Location: New York Posts: 937 Credits: 6,151 Thanks: 378 Thanked 223 Times in 130 Posts	This whole train of thought assumes that none of the 3 QBs will actually clearly win the starting job through solid play. If only one of our QBs plays well, I think it would be moronic to start someone else. It is not like we have invested the house on one of our QBs. While it would be nicer if one of the younger QBs stepped up, if McCown actually steps up (as unlikely as that may be -- it's not like brought it in training camp at oakland last year), of course you start him. Then, in the season, if he doesn't pan out, you bench him for one of the other two. But of course start a guy if he is playing well.

07-16-2008, 06:05 PM	#21
FriendofBill Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 223 Credits: 1,065 Thanks: 0 Thanked 100 Times in 56 Posts	Ah yes, the classic "Just throw him out there and see what he has" argument. I can't think of a philosophy that has ruined more young QB's and has kept more bad franchises in perpetual rebuilding mode.

07-16-2008, 06:28 PM	#25
outlawd2u Pro Bowler Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,046 Credits: 1,620 Thanks: 125 Thanked 73 Times in 40 Posts	I agree with the original poster to a certain extent. I think it should basically be Becks job to lose. If Beck does horrible then he should not play but if it's even or real close then BEck should get the edge over McCown. I just do not see any kind of future in Miami for McCown and IMO it makes little sense to let him play if he is just slightly better than one of our young guns. Afterall If Mccown is only slightly better then that's more of a discredit to McCown than it is to Beck. McCown has been in the league long enough where he probably has reached his potential, if either Beck or Henne come in and are almost on McCown's level then they will almost undoubtably surpass him because neither are anywhere near their prime.

07-16-2008, 06:34 PM	#26
FriendofBill Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 223 Credits: 1,065 Thanks: 0 Thanked 100 Times in 56 Posts	The problem with the "just throw him out there and see what you have" philosophy is that usually you're throwing a quarterback out there who has no business seeing the field, and it's usually done by bad franchises who don't have the ability to surround their QBs with much of a supporting cast in the first place. When predictably he looks completely clueless, it's hard to unsee what has been seen and he's unfairly evaluated by fans and the organization. Parcells didn't start Tony Romo until year 4, and he s has stated over and over again that he would have ruined him if he forced him out there any sooner. Beck played in a spread offense in college. QB's that played in that kind of system need one year of just riding the bench just to get down the fundamentals. By year 2, they need another year of riding the bench just to adjust to the speed of the game and the complexities of an NFL offense. They shouldn't even compete for a starting job until Year 3. Yes, he may be old for a 2nd year player and he may have been a high draft pick, but its neither Beck or the current Dolphins FO's problem that the previous regime overdrafted him.

07-16-2008, 07:57 PM	#29
Ross Trouble Shooter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Copperhead Road Blackwater Swamp, Va.... Age: 44 Posts: 2,172 Credits: 5,287 Thanks: 51 Thanked 33 Times in 26 Posts	I think the FO has already made the decision. They took a QB with their third pick instead of their first pick and picked up a struggling jorneyman bench-sitting QB in the offseason. That doesn't sound like a FO staff trying to find a QB with the MoJo. That sounds like a FO trying to build depth at the position. They already feel they have their QB with the MoJo...

07-16-2008, 08:30 PM	#30
JsBaugh Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 327 Credits: 1,227 Thanks: 2 Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts	The only think Im sure of is if its a tie between Beck and McCown in camp/preseason then Beck will get the start. No reason not to. If Henne can come in and Beat out both Beck and McCown then he deserves to start. The odds of that happening are a million to one. One reason I say that is Henne was third in OTA's and Minicamp and unless he has figured out his accuracy issues I dont see him as a factor this year.