Phillip Merling,

[napsndreds]

Originally Posted by ZachThomas76

LOL. I hear that. I hope Merling looks good, but Im more interested in how they progress as the season goes on. Im more concerned with 09 and 2010, thats when these players should pay dividends if we have drafted the right ones. To take Merling at 33, Parcells obviously sees something in him. Merling was a consensus top 15 pick before his hernia surgery.

here we go now witht his 09, 010 talk.. what kind of fan are you man? So you dont want to win this year?

[ZachThomas76]

Originally Posted by napsndreds

here we go now witht his 09, 010 talk.. what kind of fan are you man? So you dont want to win this year?

We are rebuilding. I dont really know what some people expect. Of course I want Jake Long, Henne, Merling and Langford to be All Pros. Will it happen? Probably not. Will it happen from day 1 ? Unlikely. I want to see progress as I stated, and a team being built the right way, which I believe is finally happening. If some fans like to sign Cris Carter, Culpepper, Thurman Thomas or any other past his prime vet to try and win more games, so be it. I personally am sick of that backwards thinking.

[hooshoops]

Originally Posted by napsndreds

then again, he might show up to camp ready...and in shape......

wait a minute. how long ago was he 290??? i thought it was meant recently

maybe he's the next levon kirkland. they sure are few and far between

[ZachThomas76]

Originally Posted by napsndreds

then again, he might show up to camp ready...and in shape......

Ya, I wouldnt get too worried about his weight. Ronnie Brown was said to be overweight at camp last year, and he did fine. If Merling is out of shape by pre season, then Id be a bit put off.

[BobDole]

Originally Posted by hooshoops

wait a minute. how long ago was he 290??? i thought it was meant recently

maybe he's the next levon kirkland. they sure are few and far between

recently.

this pick is the only one that confuses me. thought for sure he was gonna be a 3-4 OLB. just didn't seem to have the mass and body type that the typical 3-4 ends have. langford has that to the T. i know with the injury he put on some pounds, but was that intentional? we seem to be loaded at DE ( starks is a DE - if we put him at NT that was not the plan ), and we are certainly short at the LB position - so what now?

it's not like DE is an important position in the 3-4. it isn't. linebacker is far and away the priority. so how is it that we are maxed out at DE (langford, roth, starks, holliday, wright, maybe dotson) and so short at LB? we have 2 proven guys (i am counting crowder as proven - in your face) to fill 4 spots at the most quintessential position on the defense. how is that supposed to work exactly?

i think he might shed some pounds and work on his edge rushing a bit more, but that's just me.

[ZachThomas76]

I would argue that 3-4 DE is a very important position. You need those guys to occupy blockers, be stout at the POA, and then that allows your linebackers to swarm to the ball and make plays.

[BobDole]

Originally Posted by ZachThomas76

I would argue that 3-4 DE is a very important position. You need those guys to occupy blockers, be stout at the POA, and then that allows your linebackers to swarm to the ball and make plays.

as far as the 3-4 goes, it is probably the least important position on the field.

linebackers
safety
nose tackle
corner
end

i think that is how it goes. i'm not saying it isn't an important position - they all are. but as far as the 3-4 goes, it's at the bottom of the list. occupying blockers isn't exactly the most important, you know?

[hooshoops]

Originally Posted by BobDole

recently.

this pick is the only one that confuses me. thought for sure he was gonna be a 3-4 OLB. just didn't seem to have the mass and body type that the typical 3-4 ends have. langford has that to the T. i know with the injury he put on some pounds, but was that intentional? we seem to be loaded at DE ( starks is a DE - if we put him at NT that was not the plan ), and we are certainly short at the LB position - so what now?

it's not like DE is an important position in the 3-4. it isn't. linebacker is far and away the priority. so how is it that we are maxed out at DE (langford, roth, starks, holliday, wright, maybe dotson) and so short at LB? we have 2 proven guys (i am counting crowder as proven - in your face) to fill 4 spots at the most quintessential position on the defense. how is that supposed to work exactly?

i think he might shed some pounds and work on his edge rushing a bit more, but that's just me.

i agree. the pick confused me also. after we drafted langford i was more confused. if he's recently 290 lb has got to be out.

i wanted quentin groves with that pick. we'd have a replacement for jt right now.

[hooshoops]

Originally Posted by ZachThomas76

I would argue that 3-4 DE is a very important position. You need those guys to occupy blockers, be stout at the POA, and then that allows your linebackers to swarm to the ball and make plays.

i agree with this also. the lbs in a 3-4 are only as good as the front 3 makes them

[ZachThomas76]

Originally Posted by BobDole

as far as the 3-4 goes, it is probably the least important position on the field.

linebackers
safety
nose tackle
corner
end

i think that is how it goes. i'm not saying it isn't an important position - they all are. but as far as the 3-4 goes, it's at the bottom of the list. occupying blockers isn't exactly the most important, you know?

if your 3-4 ends cant hold their own at the POA, that means the O Line can consistently get to the 2nd level and get their hands on lb's. if that happens, you are in big trouble. IMO, corners are the least important in a 3-4. If you can create pressure, and constantly keep the Offense guessing with your blitz packages, the corners dont need to be All Pros. We can agree to disagree I suppose. Aaron Smith in Pitt, Canty in Dallas, Seymour in NE. I d say 3-4 end is pretty important. Just my take though.

[vinivedivichi]

Although I think from a value perspective it was a good pick, I questioned from the start whether he was a good fit for our system. However, I've got to think that BP and Co. have a plan for him...they used an awfully valuable pick to snag him.

I did see (I forget where) an article about Merling which said that he's a far better athlete than people realize. Although he was heralded as a run stopper, his athletic ability on paper is similar to that of successful 3-4 OLBs. So I'm not yet convinced that the long term plan for him is to stay a defensive end. Maybe this year he is a situational 4-3 end and rotational 3-4 end, but don't be surprised if he develops into a strong side OLB next year.

[hooshoops]

Originally Posted by vinivedivichi

Although I think from a value perspective it was a good pick, I questioned from the start whether he was a good fit for our system. However, I've got to think that BP and Co. have a plan for him...they used an awfully valuable pick to snag him.

I did see (I forget where) an article about Merling which said that he's a far better athlete than people realize. Although he was heralded as a run stopper, his athletic ability on paper is similar to that of successful 3-4 OLBs. So I'm not yet convinced that the long term plan for him is to stay a defensive end. Maybe this year he is a situational 4-3 end and rotational 3-4 end, but don't be surprised if he develops into a strong side OLB next year.

did the guy workout at the combine or anything??? i don't think so. i'd feel better about him at lb maybe if i could get some #s on him in some drills. i've seen nothing which adds to my questions.

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by BobDole

as far as the 3-4 goes, it is probably the least important position on the field.

linebackers
safety
nose tackle
corner
end

i think that is how it goes. i'm not saying it isn't an important position - they all are. but as far as the 3-4 goes, it's at the bottom of the list. occupying blockers isn't exactly the most important, you know?

Occupying blockers isn't exactly the most important? If those defensive linemen do not occupy blockers, how do you think the linebackers will be able to make plays? Without those DEs taking care of their 2-gap responsibilities, the OLBs will not be able to make enough plays to be effective. The OLBs will spend too much time either taking on or avoiding offensive linemen thus nullifying what they do best. Just look at what happened to the defense last year without one of the best 3-4 DEs, Kevin Carter.

Defensive linemen do the dirty work in 3-4
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1946758

Indeed, for 3-4 linemen, the action in the playmaking department rarely is fast and furious. All 3-4 teams use some style of the "two-gap" technique, which calls for the nose tackle to fill the "A" gaps on either side of the center and for the ends to take care of the "B" and "C" gaps between the guards and tackles and outside the tackle, respectively. The idea is to fill both gaps and delay, if not prevent, blockers from reaching the second level, thereby creating open lanes to the football for the inside linebackers.

Pittsburgh's linemen do lots of stunting (looping) and penetrating, forcing the ballcarrier to commit to a hole. The Patriots linemen, on the other hand, are asked to simply hold their positions and tie up blockers. In general, linemen in the 3-4 often aren't in the best position to make tackles, hence their typically low totals. And since they aren't shooting through gaps like 4-3 linemen, they don't make very many stops behind the line of scrimmage, either. That's particularly true for the nose tackles, who deal with more of a variety of double teams than their 4-3 counterparts, who are already aligned in gaps.

[hooshoops]

Originally Posted by ZachThomas76

if your 3-4 ends cant hold their own at the POA, that means the O Line can consistently get to the 2nd level and get their hands on lb's. if that happens, you are in big trouble. IMO, corners are the least important in a 3-4. If you can create pressure, and constantly keep the Offense guessing with your blitz packages, the corners dont need to be All Pros. We can agree to disagree I suppose. Aaron Smith in Pitt, Canty in Dallas, Seymour in NE. I d say 3-4 end is pretty important. Just my take though.

yes indeed

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by hooshoops

did the guy workout at the combine or anything??? i don't think so. i'd feel better about him at lb maybe if i could get some #s on him in some drills. i've seen nothing which adds to my questions.

Merling wasn't able to workout because of the sports hernia that was discovered at the combine. You won't get any solid numbers on him because of this.