Some hope for our CBs? - Page 2

FinaticalOne · 07-23-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinsFan74

Randy Moss absolutely obliterated our db's to the point of it being laughable. Hopefully the new regime can correct this otherwise he will have a field day for at least 2 games this season

Moss embarassed a bunch of quality DBs last year....not trying to take anything away from him because he had a great year; but the player he "obliterated" last year was Cameron Worrell. Worrell was never supposed to see the field as a starter, but our secondary was injury-plagued and naturally they took advantage of that match-up.

dolpns13 · 07-23-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooshoops

will allen pro bowl??? come on now. .

So what your saying is 9 interceptions, 2 sacks, 62 tackles and 13 passes defensed is not pro bowl worthy??? Come on now.

hooshoops · 07-23-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolpns13

So what your saying is 9 interceptions, 2 sacks, 62 tackles and 13 passes defensed is not pro bowl worthy??? Come on now.

will allen will never have 9 ints. his ints come when the ball gets lodged in his facemask. playmakers make the pro bowl. will allen isn't a playmaker.

good cover guy with wheels. not very physical. that's will allen

dolpns13 · 07-23-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooshoops

will allen will never have 9 ints. his ints come when the ball gets lodged in his facemask. playmakers make the pro bowl. will allen isn't a playmaker.

good cover guy with wheels. not very physical. that's will allen

He put himself in position to pick off 8 balls that he dropped...
your saying had he caught those 8, 9 int's isnt good enough for pro bowl

Not very physical? Have you seen him blitz? Ranked 5b of 8 players tied for 5th in the league in QB sacks. He's a deadly blitzer and deadly blitzing proves physicality

Well your bias for Will Allen shines through like blasts of rays from the sun..

X-Pacolypse · 07-23-2008, 10:39 AM

The fact that I just read that Will Allen dropped 8 potential INT's is the exact reason why I'm hesitant to re-sign him. 2009 Draft Class should be pretty deep with CB help.

chillwill3000 · 07-23-2008, 10:47 AM

We need to worry about he will play saftey, because our saftey last season after all the injuries were a complete joke. Worrell made me cringe in fear every time a pass was thrown his way.

chillwill3000 · 07-23-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolpns13

So what your saying is 9 interceptions, 2 sacks, 62 tackles and 13 passes defensed is not pro bowl worthy??? Come on now.

Will Allen couldn't catch a cold buck naked in a snowstorm

dolpns13 · 07-23-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillwill3000

Will Allen couldn't catch a cold buck naked in a snowstorm

I said "IF"... IF he caught the 8 interceptions... Wow, finheaven at its best.. take something someone said and twist it around to some fake form of discredit

Did anyone miss the 2nd grade when they taught people how to read?

hooshoops · 07-23-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolpns13

He put himself in position to pick off 8 balls that he dropped...
your saying had he caught those 8, 9 int's isnt good enough for pro bowl

Not very physical? Have you seen him blitz? Ranked 5b of 8 players tied for 5th in the league in QB sacks. He's a deadly blitzer and deadly blitzing proves physicality

Well your bias for Will Allen shines through like blasts of rays from the sun..

did he catch those 8 ints you keep referring to??? no, he didn't. he dropped them.

what is with the "ifs"...if we had tom brady at qb our wrs may look good...if we had demarcus ware at olb our pass rush would be good...on and on.

reality is will allen didn't catch those 8 balls you keep referring to just like tom brady and demarcus ware don't play for the phins.

as far as physical, i guy who can blitz unimpeded to the qb with the element of surprise on his side does not prove he is physical.

will allen is not a jam or bump and run corner where he gets his hands on you and disrupts routes. he's not a guy who comes up in run support and lays the wood. he's never going to blow anybody up after the catch. he's not physical.

he's a guy who uses his elite speed to stay with wrs and catch up when he's beat and has the quickness and agility to make sharp cuts. ball skills wise he's lost.

once again a very good cover corner.

dolpns13 · 07-23-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooshoops

did he catch those 8 ints you keep referring to??? no, he didn't. he dropped them.

thats 100% true and im not arguing about that, nor did my post even mention he had caught them, I simply stated hypothetically if he had caught them he would be pro bowl bound, your the one who seems to think 9 INT's in a season is not worthy of the pro bowl.

Quote:

reality is will allen didn't catch those 8 balls you keep referring to just like tom brady and demarcus ware don't play for the phins.

you want to talke about reality, fine, I agree 100% with this.. but again, not my point to my original post...

Quote:

as far as physical, i guy who can blitz unimpeded to the qb with the element of surprise on his side does not prove he is physical.

will allen is not a jam or bump and run corner where he gets his hands on you and disrupts routes. he's not a guy who comes up in run support and lays the wood. he's never going to blow anybody up after the catch. he's not physical.

In reality, i can agree with this. I never said he was going to be on jacked up anytime soon or even ever. He's not a Bob Sanders type of physical coming up the middle to stuff a runner, but he can tackle.

Quote:

he's a guy who uses his elite speed to stay with wrs and catch up when he's beat and has the quickness and agility to make sharp cuts. ball skills wise he's lost.

once again a very good cover corner.

I can agree with this...

If you wanna talk reality, fine, there is nothing wrong with speaking about hypothetical "if" situations, people (our government, global business's) use whats called a "what if" situation all the time.

Geforce · 07-23-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooshoops

will allen pro bowl??? come on now.

will allen is a solid #2 cb on most teams. we don't have a true #1 cb.
goodman and lehan are better suited as nickle and dime cbs but due to our lack of talent are asked to play 1 skill level up from where they should be.

daniels should be working a 9 to 5

will allen did have a very good year last year.

cb is in dire need of talent upgrades next offseason.

I think Sports Illustrated Dr. Z and even Football Outsiders would disagree with you on this. Dr. Z had Will Allen as one of his All-Pros and Football Outsiders charted Allen's stats and showed that he had a 60% success rate (12th among the top 75 cornerbacks) and allowed only 5.6 yards per pass which placed him 10th.

Dr. Z's All-Pros
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ll.pros/3.html

Football Outsiders Mailbag: Will Allen
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...a-points/6046/

moonman · 07-23-2008, 11:33 AM

Will Allen isn't a number 1 CB? That's BS, sorry. Will Allen was a great pickup for this team.

Geforce · 07-23-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooshoops

the knock on will allen his entire career other than not an always willing tackler has been stone hands.

it's not gonna change at plus 30.

I really think you are getting Will Allen confused with someone else. Being physical is one of the reason Saban brought Allen in and let Sam Madison go.

Geforce · 07-23-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillwill3000

We need to worry about he will play saftey, because our saftey last season after all the injuries were a complete joke. Worrell made me cringe in fear every time a pass was thrown his way.

This would be true for every other team in the NFL. Look what happened to the Colts defense when they lost just Bob Sanders for a couple of games. The same with the Patriots without Harrison and Pittsburgh without Polamalu. Their secondaries were not nearly as good but atleast they had a consistent pass rush to help them out.

hooshoops · 07-23-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geforce

I think Sports Illustrated Dr. Z and even Football Outsiders would disagree with you on this. Dr. Z had Will Allen as one of his All-Pros and Football Outsiders charted Allen's stats and showed that he had a 60% success rate (12th among the top 75 cornerbacks) and allowed only 5.6 yards per pass which placed him 10th.

Dr. Z's All-Pros
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ll.pros/3.html

Football Outsiders Mailbag: Will Allen
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...a-points/6046/

i've seen that. i said he was a good cover corner thus the low success rate on passes thrown his way.

i said he wasn't a playmaker and not very physical and i stand behind it. pro bowl cornerbacks are playmakers. will allen isn't a playmaker.

i personally could care less who dr z feels is pro bowl worthy. he's always on some kick.

my take

07-23-2008, 10:39 AM	#20
X-Pacolypse Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,545 Credits: 14,649 Thanks: 139 Thanked 836 Times in 494 Posts	The fact that I just read that Will Allen dropped 8 potential INT's is the exact reason why I'm hesitant to re-sign him. 2009 Draft Class should be pretty deep with CB help. __________________ SAVE_US.RB23 LAUNCH_7/26/2008 2ND_COMING IS_HERE http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80afaa1c

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07-23-2008, 10:47 AM	#21
chillwill3000 True Phinfan Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas Age: 32 Posts: 1,172 Credits: 8,808 Thanks: 40 Thanked 53 Times in 31 Posts	We need to worry about he will play saftey, because our saftey last season after all the injuries were a complete joke. Worrell made me cringe in fear every time a pass was thrown his way.

07-23-2008, 11:33 AM	#27
moonman Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 405 Credits: 2,622 Thanks: 91 Thanked 108 Times in 52 Posts	Will Allen isn't a number 1 CB? That's BS, sorry. Will Allen was a great pickup for this team.