Just incase some of you didnt know..... - Page 3

adamprez2003 · 09-02-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlockz

I still think Ryan was the best Qb in the draft but I always said Jake Long was the best overall player.I would have seriously been irked if we had chosen Chris Long over Ryan but Jake was a no brainer. I think Henne will be a good qb though and if we had taken Ryan we would have not been able to get a franchise like tackle. Atlanta was smart and moved up and took Sam Baker whom I think we will be much better than some on this board think.

I agree with that somewhat. I'm not 100% sold on Jake's feet which was my concern with us taking him. Henne's game against New Orleans had me a bit concerned about his pocket presence. That was my biggest gripe with him in Michigan. Still he looked like he had good pocket presence in the first three games so we'll see how that develops. The question really boils down to would we have been able to get a left tackle in next years draft and will Ryan be better than Henne and how much better. The best on the board that was left was someone like Oniel Cousins so if the plan was grabbing a QB AND a LOT the FO made the right decision although they got mahjor lucky on Henne still being available (same for Merling)

So far this looks like what I predicted, one of the strongest QB classes in recent memory. Ryan, Henne, Flacco all look like they have a chance to be very good. Even a guy like Brett Ratliff has shined.

Flacco is probably going to have to have the roughest time of it but you can see that magical arm of his on display and he's way ahead of where I thought he would be coming from Div2

burger13 · 09-02-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

lol...maybe in the NFL because he's been in it longer but his college career doesn't even compare to Ryan's...

Andre Ware, Ty Detmer, David Klingler, Ryan Leaf, Ken Dorsey, etc, etc, etc.....they had pretty good college careers too. How'd they work out?

He's 4 preseason games into his career.....way too early to tell either way.

milldog · 09-02-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15

Might be your record this year!

milldog · 09-02-2008, 09:59 AM

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers (often shortened as the Bucs) are a professional American football team based in Tampa, Florida. They are currently members of the Southern Division of the National Football Conference (NFC) in the National Football League (NFL). The team, along with the Seattle Seahawks, joined the NFL as 1976 expansion teams in the AFC West. The club is currently owned by Malcolm Glazer and coached by head coach Jon Gruden. When the franchise entered the league in 1976, the Buccaneers lost their first 26 games

I don't think you're argument is valid. We've never been as shi**y as you!

Vertical Limit · 09-03-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMountain16

Nah i'm only giving him 4 starts, then he's a bust.

LOL. Yeah, I'm giving him 4 starts too before I label him a bust. That seems to be the fair average on Finheaven.

Gonzo · 09-03-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15 1-15

Pretty funny coming from a fan of a team with 2 winning seasons in 10 years. (and to save you the trouble of checking, we've had 7). And in a later post, you state that you expect to have around the same number of wins as us, which means you believe we've come further than you in one offseason. Thanks, I'll agree with that.

As an organization, I'd take a couple of years in the cellar over an entire history (Falcons).

WVdolphan · 09-03-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =FinTunaWorld=

Goes to show how "WVDOLPHAN" knows his football, he will rate and IMPOSE IN A VERY DICTATIVE MANNER FORESEE a player's career by watching him play in less than 4 games.

BTW, I bet you(WV) havent even seen a falcons preseason game this year and is basing that "ICE' is a helluva demon qb(lol in 3 preseason games and he hasnt even played a full game)!! and is going to be the best qb out of this years qb draft class, based on what some box score stats you read or some highlights in nfl.com, lolol

Yea. I guess you didnt read my earlier post. It has nothing to do with preseason and if you knew anything about me you know I dont give a **** about stats and I dont base how well someone plays off looking at a box score and not even watching the game. Thats what Beck fans do.

EDIT: WHOOPS!!! I got a little carried away a second ago....thought we were in the depths. Can we move this thread to the depths please Mods?

FALCONS24-7-365 · 09-03-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Pretty funny coming from a fan of a team with 2 winning seasons in 10 years. (and to save you the trouble of checking, we've had 7). And in a later post, you state that you expect to have around the same number of wins as us, which means you believe we've come further than you in one offseason. Thanks, I'll agree with that.

As an organization, I'd take a couple of years in the cellar over an entire history (Falcons).

Pretty typical for a fan of a terrible team to bring up it's winning history in an argument...lol...it don't matter how good you've been man...you still went 1-15 do you not understand???...oh and 3 out of the 7 were 9-7 seasons...statistically that is a winning season but I wouldn't count it unless you make the post season...but still that's funny cause i don't know what's worse...going 23 years without making it back to the superbowl or a 1-15 season...of course it could be worse right? All those years Dan Marino could have been running an illegal dog fighting ring!!!

To say you have improved more than us isn't saying much...it's pretty easy to improve on a 1-15 season...well easier than a 4-12 anyways...You guys improved your o-line and that's pretty much it...pennington sucks...ronnie is good if he isn't riding the pine....ricky is the **** wish we had him pot and all...ted ginn will only be good on special teams....te's suck....d-line sucks....lb's all suck but channing(yes porter and roth suck)....cb's are old and couldn't catch a cold...and safeties are average with jason allen still waiting to breakout and yeremiah is the only legit player on d...

now before you guys breakdown my team i will.......

our qb's are ???....rb's are average....turner has alot to prove and norwood is a solid backup having everyone one of his touchdowns being 67 yards or more...wr's a ok with Roddy coming off a great year and mediocre backups....te's blow....o-line is old on the right side but left is good....d-line is looking scary with john abraham the only reliable vet on it....same with linebackers being keith brooking the only bright spot....not looking good for our cb's having all scrubs in the line up....and our safety core is pretty solid with Milloy holding it down at the age of 55....

burger13 · 09-03-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

our qb's are ???....rb's are average....turner has alot to prove and norwood is a solid backup having everyone one of his touchdowns being 67 yards or more...wr's a ok with Roddy coming off a great year and mediocre backups....te's blow....o-line is old on the right side but left is good....d-line is looking scary with john abraham the only reliable vet on it....same with linebackers being keith brooking the only bright spot....not looking good for our cb's having all scrubs in the line up....and our safety core is pretty solid with Milloy holding it down at the age of 55....

sorry, I just find it funny to hear John Abraham and 'reliable' in the same sentence.

Gonzo · 09-03-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

Pretty typical for a fan of a terrible team to bring up it's winning history in an argument...lol...it don't matter how good you've been man...you still went 1-15 do you not understand???...oh and 3 out of the 7 were 9-7 seasons...statistically that is a winning season but I wouldn't count it unless you make the post season...but still that's funny cause i don't know what's worse...going 23 years without making it back to the superbowl or a 1-15 season...of course it could be worse right? All those years Dan Marino could have been running an illegal dog fighting ring!!!

To say you have improved more than us isn't saying much...it's pretty easy to improve on a 1-15 season...well easier than a 4-12 anyways...You guys improved your o-line and that's pretty much it...pennington sucks...ronnie is good if he isn't riding the pine....ricky is the **** wish we had him pot and all...ted ginn will only be good on special teams....te's suck....d-line sucks....lb's all suck but channing(yes porter and roth suck)....cb's are old and couldn't catch a cold...and safeties are average with jason allen still waiting to breakout and yeremiah is the only legit player on d...

now before you guys breakdown my team i will.......

our qb's are ???....rb's are average....turner has alot to prove and norwood is a solid backup having everyone one of his touchdowns being 67 yards or more...wr's a ok with Roddy coming off a great year and mediocre backups....te's blow....o-line is old on the right side but left is good....d-line is looking scary with john abraham the only reliable vet on it....same with linebackers being keith brooking the only bright spot....not looking good for our cb's having all scrubs in the line up....and our safety core is pretty solid with Milloy holding it down at the age of 55....

I'll start with the bolded. Harder for a 4-12 team to improve? You really put that much difference between the two?

Please, tell us how it's easier. While you think about it, feel free to watch how we rebuild, because your team has never been able to do it.

It's from the ground up, starting with the lines. As you noted, our O-line is much improved, but you were way off on the D-line improvements, which got a much needed youth injection in two very promising rookies. Are you basing that solely on the loss of JT?

The LB's are coming together, but that will be addressed more next draft. Mark it down. Until then, Roth is showing far more promise than he ever did on the DL.

Next year, you'll see us pick up LBs, DBs, and probably a WR or TE in the draft while Henne emerges to lead this team. We'll be a contender, but not a real SB threat...yet. Then comes year three. Solidify the skills position, probably pick up another RB depending on how Ronnie comes along. And now we're a legitimate contender, and not just for one year (like your dear inept falcs). The youth injected into the team 2 and 3 years before are now experienced. This is how Parcells works. It's no mystery, he's done it successfully at every team he's been with.

Now for the rest of your post, no, it's not typical for a terrible team to bring up it's history. You certainly wouldn't do it, nor would the Cards (two birds that apparently can't fly). It is, however, typical for historically good teams to fall occasionally, only to rise again. Cowboys, Colts, Packers, etc. True, it's been 23 years, but we were always a contender, which I would take any day over being consistantly at the bottom of the heap with the occasional fluke spike of talent.

So stick with the 1-15 (which isn't even close to the same team that you'll see this year) argument. Keep bringing it up, please, because it's going to make for a hell of a story in a couple of years when sportscasters won't stop talking about the amazing turn around, over and over. You know how that happens: silly sports illustrated books, nfl films music, etc. You've seen them do it for nearly every team, except yours.

FALCONS24-7-365 · 09-03-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I'll start with the bolded. Harder for a 4-12 team to improve? You really put that much difference between the two?

Please, tell us how it's easier. While you think about it, feel free to watch how we rebuild, because your team has never been able to do it.

It's from the ground up, starting with the lines. As you noted, our O-line is much improved, but you were way off on the D-line improvements, which got a much needed youth injection in two very promising rookies. Are you basing that solely on the loss of JT?

The LB's are coming together, but that will be addressed more next draft. Mark it down. Until then, Roth is showing far more promise than he ever did on the DL.

Next year, you'll see us pick up LBs, DBs, and probably a WR or TE in the draft while Henne emerges to lead this team. We'll be a contender, but not a real SB threat...yet. Then comes year three. Solidify the skills position, probably pick up another RB depending on how Ronnie comes along. And now we're a legitimate contender, and not just for one year (like your dear inept falcs). The youth injected into the team 2 and 3 years before are now experienced. This is how Parcells works. It's no mystery, he's done it successfully at every team he's been with.

Now for the rest of your post, no, it's not typical for a terrible team to bring up it's history. You certainly wouldn't do it, nor would the Cards (two birds that apparently can't fly). It is, however, typical for historically good teams to fall occasionally, only to rise again. Cowboys, Colts, Packers, etc. True, it's been 23 years, but we were always a contender, which I would take any day over being consistantly at the bottom of the heap with the occasional fluke spike of talent.

So stick with the 1-15 (which isn't even close to the same team that you'll see this year) argument. Keep bringing it up, please, because it's going to make for a hell of a story in a couple of years when sportscasters won't stop talking about the amazing turn around, over and over. You know how that happens: silly sports illustrated books, nfl films music, etc. You've seen them do it for nearly every team, except yours.

You act like I've never arguedwith another fan before. You say no it's not typical for a fan of a horrible team to brig up it's winning history. Well I hate to burst your bubble but it happens to me al the time. Ravens fans, bucs fans, raiders fans, dolphins fans, anybody who has a nostalgic history or a superbowl ring thinks their team is good like you. You constatnly live in the past and think know matter what your team was once great there for is still great despite the fact of a 1-15 season.

Now I beleive it will be easier to improve on a 1-15 season because of one game. You honestly believe it is gonna be harder for the dolphins to get 2 wins this year than for the falcons to get 5? Probably because yall suck but you should improve on it none the less.

You want to talk about from ground up? Take the 06 falcons and compare them to the 08 falcons. Totally different team beside like 5 players. We released our starting 3 time pro-bowl DT this off-season, our starting 5 time Pro-bowl TE, Our starting RB but he needed to be cut, Traded our Starting 3 time pro-bowl cornerback, we cut our starting 3 time pro-bowl LE the year before that, and the face of our franchise starting 5 time pro-bowl QB goes to prison(I was happy with this one. Never liked him, i wanted schaub to start.).....Hmmm....I wouldn't have approved of some these moves but being a fan you have to accept the choices they make. I have faith in our team to get some wins this year. Our new head coach was Jacksonville's D Coordinator so he has jacked up our defense a little and has made them alittle better. As far as the offense goes we are starting from the ground up. Drafting a all american QB and all american LT to protect his blindside. in the Second round we go defense and draft a highly rated MLB from oklahoma who was so good he was starter the first day of practic. it helped he was the only one with talent too. Third round we go with a small speedy WR good for depth and slot.All the others rounds were just depth mostly on the defensive side. We signed a huge sleeper in Eric Coleman from the jets and before you knock him check his stats. In his rookie season he had 89 tackles, his second season he had 121 and that was with Kerry Rhodes at SS, his third season he had 93 tackles and got injured his fourth which led to his release. Him and lawyer should help with the run dramatically while our LB's improve and get better. Our d-line should be decent with a whale of Grady Jackson filling the middle and a first rounder on the LE and a pro-bowler on the Right. So we are looking much improved. If that isn't rebuilding from the ground up I don't kow what is.........

Kiick72 · 09-03-2008, 08:29 PM

Grabbing a QB with our 1st pick would have been pointless, any QB. We had to have a left tackle 1st. The line had to be fixed 1st. Some advocated waiting till the 2nd to get a left tackle, "there will be plenty of good ones available in the 2nd" they said. No, there weren't. All of them went in 1st, including the ones that should have gone somewhere in the 3rd. Maybe we will end up missing Ryan, maybe we won't, but I can still tell you putting any QB behind that line we would have been staring another 1-15 season right in the face. The fins did the right thing.

Gonzo · 09-03-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONS24-7-365

You act like I've never arguedwith another fan before. You say no it's not typical for a fan of a horrible team to brig up it's winning history. Well I hate to burst your bubble but it happens to me al the time. Ravens fans, bucs fans, raiders fans, dolphins fans, anybody who has a nostalgic history or a superbowl ring thinks their team is good like you. You constatnly live in the past and think know matter what your team was once great there for is still great despite the fact of a 1-15 season.

Now I beleive it will be easier to improve on a 1-15 season because of one game. You honestly believe it is gonna be harder for the dolphins to get 2 wins this year than for the falcons to get 5? Probably because yall suck but you should improve on it none the less.

You want to talk about from ground up? Take the 06 falcons and compare them to the 08 falcons. Totally different team beside like 5 players. We released our starting 3 time pro-bowl DT this off-season, our starting 5 time Pro-bowl TE, Our starting RB but he needed to be cut, Traded our Starting 3 time pro-bowl cornerback, we cut our starting 3 time pro-bowl LE the year before that, and the face of our franchise starting 5 time pro-bowl QB goes to prison(I was happy with this one. Never liked him, i wanted schaub to start.).....Hmmm....I wouldn't have approved of some these moves but being a fan you have to accept the choices they make. I have faith in our team to get some wins this year. Our new head coach was Jacksonville's D Coordinator so he has jacked up our defense a little and has made them alittle better. As far as the offense goes we are starting from the ground up. Drafting a all american QB and all american LT to protect his blindside. in the Second round we go defense and draft a highly rated MLB from oklahoma who was so good he was starter the first day of practic. it helped he was the only one with talent too. Third round we go with a small speedy WR good for depth and slot.All the others rounds were just depth mostly on the defensive side. We signed a huge sleeper in Eric Coleman from the jets and before you knock him check his stats. In his rookie season he had 89 tackles, his second season he had 121 and that was with Kerry Rhodes at SS, his third season he had 93 tackles and got injured his fourth which led to his release. Him and lawyer should help with the run dramatically while our LB's improve and get better. Our d-line should be decent with a whale of Grady Jackson filling the middle and a first rounder on the LE and a pro-bowler on the Right. So we are looking much improved. If that isn't rebuilding from the ground up I don't kow what is.........

You missed my point. I said a terrible team never brings up the past because a truly terrible team has no past, which is why I brought up your falcs and the cardinals, though, to be honest, even they have more history to be proud of. All those teams you just mentioned have a past in which they've won, earning the right to bring it up. However, I can understand your frustration at not having any history to be proud of though, I'm a Coyotes fan.

So 1 more win is improvement to you? I guess thats the mentality one develops with mediocrity. Anything below 6 would be a disappointment. I guess you'll be happy with one win.

However, you guys are finally starting from scratch. The Vick fiasco appears to have forced that, followed by the Petrino disaster that we can actually sympathize with. I think you guys grabbed another overhyped QB, but at least you tried to solidify the position and I really like the pick of Baker and Lofton. Can't root for ya though, I have too good of a time partying with Saints fans at their games.

My main point, however, was that if you insist on riding that 1-15, don't get so pissy about our history being thrown back in your face.

Here's an interesting article that may explain why we're not wallowing in self-loathing over one bad run in our history:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com..._rankings.html

09-02-2008, 09:59 AM	#34
milldog Starter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Palm Beach Age: 35 Posts: 563 Credits: 4,426 Thanks: 101 Thanked 128 Times in 78 Posts	The Tampa Bay Buccaneers (often shortened as the Bucs) are a professional American football team based in Tampa, Florida. They are currently members of the Southern Division of the National Football Conference (NFC) in the National Football League (NFL). The team, along with the Seattle Seahawks, joined the NFL as 1976 expansion teams in the AFC West. The club is currently owned by Malcolm Glazer and coached by head coach Jon Gruden. When the franchise entered the league in 1976, the Buccaneers lost their first 26 games I don't think you're argument is valid. We've never been as shi**y as you!

09-03-2008, 08:29 PM	#42
Kiick72 Starter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Palm Bay, Fla Age: 43 Posts: 388 Credits: 1,554 Thanks: 284 Thanked 74 Times in 50 Posts	Grabbing a QB with our 1st pick would have been pointless, any QB. We had to have a left tackle 1st. The line had to be fixed 1st. Some advocated waiting till the 2nd to get a left tackle, "there will be plenty of good ones available in the 2nd" they said. No, there weren't. All of them went in 1st, including the ones that should have gone somewhere in the 3rd. Maybe we will end up missing Ryan, maybe we won't, but I can still tell you putting any QB behind that line we would have been staring another 1-15 season right in the face. The fins did the right thing.