What a bunch of BS. It's not class size that's the problem. A motivated student will learn in any setting. We have a culture that feels entitled to success. Why work hard? There will be a way to get by without putting in the effort.
How many parents are actively engaged in their kids homework? Do these same parents keep their kids from playing xbox or whatever system they are on until their grades are a certain level? Or do they use those systems as babysitters?
Kids learn from their parents. If their parents don't show an appreciation for education at home, they won't value it themselves. Nobody wants to admit this, because the problem is staring at most of us in the mirror. It's a far easier answer to blame things you can just throw money at like class size and resources in the schools. Far smarter people were far more learned with far fewer resources.
when will teachers start to take responsabiliy for some of this. i understand smaller class rooms would help. but lets face it teachers arent as good as they use to be. there are to many useless teachers out there. and the problem is that its hard to get rid of them.
if were going to grade the students then we should also grade the teachers. if there kids get bad scores or if they pass kids who shouldnt get passed then they should be gone.
in any other job people are measured by results. if your a coach and you lose you get replaced, if your a boss in a factory and your crew does poorly your replaced. why is it so different for teachers?
That's all well and good... but we teach the kids that society sends us... unmotivated, lazy, bored, bad homes, good homes, involved parents, no parents, love school, or hate it... we teach them all... and giant classes, ridiculously too big classes, are the biggest problem teachers have in being successful... it is the biggest factor in teacher retention, and it is the hardest obstacle to work with... I don't need tons of technology, or a raise... I need a class with 20 students...
The preceeding message was brought to you by the National Educational Association - teachers unionized to support and protect teachers.
The report card shows that only 34 percent of 8th graders are proficient in math, 29 percent in science and 33 percent in reading.
Jumping in the class size debate...anyone know if the reported failure of our public schools is worse/better/same comparably to when we started reducing 25+ student/teacher class sizes from 40 years ago to the national average around 16 now?
__________________ I just need to hear truth spoken aloud, need to be able to testify to future generations that it was stated in black and white somewhere in the midst of the maelstrom of mendacity, of lies and damned lies, that now dominates the political debate. -Leonard Pitts Jr.
Jumping in the class size debate...anyone know if the reported failure of our public schools is worse/better/same comparably to when we started reducing 25+ student/teacher class sizes from 40 years ago to the national average around 16 now?
This is an extremely misleading number... 40 years ago we educated a much smaller percentage of children... in a general education classroom the student to teacher ratio is the highest it has ever been...
__________________
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
The preceeding message was brought to you by the National Educational Association - teachers unionized to support and protect teachers.
First of all... how am I protecting teachers with any comment I made? Next, what am I protecting them from? Lastly, I don't belong to a union... so play your guess around on someone else....
__________________
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
when will teachers start to take responsabiliy for some of this. i understand smaller class rooms would help. but lets face it teachers arent as good as they use to be. there are to many useless teachers out there. and the problem is that its hard to get rid of them.
if were going to grade the students then we should also grade the teachers. if there kids get bad scores or if they pass kids who shouldnt get passed then they should be gone.
in any other job people are measured by results. if your a coach and you lose you get replaced, if your a boss in a factory and your crew does poorly your replaced. why is it so different for teachers?
Teachers are far superior to any time in our nations history... I would like to know where you get this crazy idea from? My teachers were horrible and had no accountability... they died in their jobs... it was part of my motivation...
Next.. what makes you think teachers are not accountable? The layers of teacher accountability are forceful and immediate... I don't even get where you would get the idea that my profession is any different...
__________________
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
Teachers are far superior to any time in our nations history... I would like to know where you get this crazy idea from?
if thats true then its no wonder were in such bad shape. what makes you think that bad teachers from the past can turn out good teachers now. didnt they learn of to teach from watching how their teachers did it.
Quote:
My teachers were horrible and had no accountability... they died in their jobs... it was part of my motivation...
Next.. what makes you think teachers are not accountable? The layers of teacher accountability are forceful and immediate... I don't even get where you would get the idea that my profession is any different...
how can you question me saying teachers have no accountability then you turn around and say the same thing?
union teachers and teachers with tenure are just like anyone else who has no fear of losing their jobs, they let their job suffer. if they didnt have that job security they might put alittle more effort into their students, instead of taking it easy.
I never meant to imply this as negatively as you took it... I agree that society needs to reprioritize... and we do as well as possible with the resources we are gives... but for every $1.00 spent on education, like .20 makes it to the classroom.... I am not saying increase funds... realign funds.. I would fore go that raise SG is so convinced that teachers don't deserve for an opportunity to hire more teachers... A classroom at this level needs 20-24 students maximum...
Nate can you please explain to me what else I think and tell me why I think it and how I came to my conclussions. Thanks in advance.
__________________ "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
if thats true then its no wonder were in such bad shape. what makes you think that bad teachers from the past can turn out good teachers now. didnt they learn of to teach from watching how their teachers did it.
I guess all hope is lost...
Quote:
how can you question me saying teachers have no accountability then you turn around and say the same thing?
I didn't say that...
Quote:
union teachers and teachers with tenure are just like anyone else who has no fear of losing their jobs, they let their job suffer. if they didnt have that job security they might put alittle more effort into their students, instead of taking it easy.
All teachers can lose their job... that means tenured and non-tenured, union and non-union, for non-performance... we actually had a rare case of a mid year firing this year... union, tenured, and gone... what teachers do you know who are taking it easy? What do you directly know about teachers and schools? Why are you so sure you are correct in what you say?
__________________
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
yes you did go back and read the post where you say
My teachers were horrible and had no accountability... they died in their jobs... it was part of my motivation...
Next.. what makes you think teachers are not accountable? The layers of teacher accountability are forceful and immediate
Quote:
All teachers can lose their job... that means tenured and non-tenured, union and non-union, for non-performance... we actually had a rare case of a mid year firing this year... union, tenured, and gone... what teachers do you know who are taking it easy? What do you directly know about teachers and schools? Why are you so sure you are correct in what you say?
first off i have 4 friends who are current teachers in the school district in which i live. while they are my friends, its a shame for what passes for a teacher these days. im sorry to say but the standards you seem to apply to teachers isnt really there.
heres a true example of how hard it is to get a teacher repremanded.
i have a sixteen your old daughter who does very well in school. she has one class where she kept getting bad grades. well i dont put it with that so after her second nineweeks grades came out and she did poor in that class again i started to ask more questions, and she kept blaming the teacher, she told me he refused to help her. needless to say i didnt believe her. so i sent her to class with a small recorder and sure enough she goes to the teacher after class and asks for help and he says and i quote " i only explain things once, its not my fault you didnt get it" so i took the recorder to the principle and he told me theres nothing he could do and he didnt know what to tell me.
so like a good father i started asking around to find out where he went after school hours and sure enough i found out what club he likes to visit. so with this information i decieded to go up to the school and have a meeting with him. so i let him tell me all the typical bs and that he was always there if she needed help. so after he was done i pulled out the recorder and played it back to him. he didnt have much to say after that. then i kindly left him know that i knew he liked to hang out at shaft club and that if this stuff continued that i would see him there and it wouldnt be a very nice discussion. then i got up and left the room. the next day i walked in to the club, shock hands with the bar tender and sent the teacher over a drink. 2 minutes later i got up and walked over to the teacher and told him this is the last friendly meeting we will have and that i hope he understands what will happen if things dont get resolved.
needless to say the grade in that class went back up with the rest of them and he was answering all her questions with no problem
now if i didnt get involved my daughter and others would of suffered because he didnt want to be bothered. i was lucky i was able to find something that he didnt want to lose while it may not have been his job it was something that motivated him
yes you did go back and read the post where you say
My teachers were horrible and had no accountability... they died in their jobs... it was part of my motivation...
Next.. what makes you think teachers are not accountable? The layers of teacher accountability are forceful and immediate
first off i have 4 friends who are current teachers in the school district in which i live. while they are my friends, its a shame for what passes for a teacher these days. im sorry to say but the standards you seem to apply to teachers isnt really there.
heres a true example of how hard it is to get a teacher repremanded.
i have a sixteen your old daughter who does very well in school. she has one class where she kept getting bad grades. well i dont put it with that so after her second nineweeks grades came out and she did poor in that class again i started to ask more questions, and she kept blaming the teacher, she told me he refused to help her. needless to say i didnt believe her. so i sent her to class with a small recorder and sure enough she goes to the teacher after class and asks for help and he says and i quote " i only explain things once, its not my fault you didnt get it" so i took the recorder to the principle and he told me theres nothing he could do and he didnt know what to tell me.
so like a good father i started asking around to find out where he went after school hours and sure enough i found out what club he likes to visit. so with this information i decieded to go up to the school and have a meeting with him. so i let him tell me all the typical bs and that he was always there if she needed help. so after he was done i pulled out the recorder and played it back to him. he didnt have much to say after that. then i kindly left him know that i knew he liked to hang out at shaft club and that if this stuff continued that i would see him there and it wouldnt be a very nice discussion. then i got up and left the room. the next day i walked in to the club, shock hands with the bar tender and sent the teacher over a drink. 2 minutes later i got up and walked over to the teacher and told him this is the last friendly meeting we will have and that i hope he understands what will happen if things dont get resolved.
needless to say the grade in that class went back up with the rest of them and he was answering all her questions with no problem
now if i didnt get involved my daughter and others would of suffered because he didnt want to be bothered. i was lucky i was able to find something that he didnt want to lose while it may not have been his job it was something that motivated him
Is that a true story? If so..cudos to you for doing the extra credit. LOL
__________________ Players come and go, but I will always be a Miami Dolphins Fan first and foremost.
Always make sure your Thanks is greater than your Thanked!
yes you did go back and read the post where you say
My teachers were horrible and had no accountability... they died in their jobs... it was part of my motivation...
Next.. what makes you think teachers are not accountable? The layers of teacher accountability are forceful and immediate
first off i have 4 friends who are current teachers in the school district in which i live. while they are my friends, its a shame for what passes for a teacher these days. im sorry to say but the standards you seem to apply to teachers isnt really there.
heres a true example of how hard it is to get a teacher repremanded.
i have a sixteen your old daughter who does very well in school. she has one class where she kept getting bad grades. well i dont put it with that so after her second nineweeks grades came out and she did poor in that class again i started to ask more questions, and she kept blaming the teacher, she told me he refused to help her. needless to say i didnt believe her. so i sent her to class with a small recorder and sure enough she goes to the teacher after class and asks for help and he says and i quote " i only explain things once, its not my fault you didnt get it" so i took the recorder to the principle and he told me theres nothing he could do and he didnt know what to tell me.
so like a good father i started asking around to find out where he went after school hours and sure enough i found out what club he likes to visit. so with this information i decieded to go up to the school and have a meeting with him. so i let him tell me all the typical bs and that he was always there if she needed help. so after he was done i pulled out the recorder and played it back to him. he didnt have much to say after that. then i kindly left him know that i knew he liked to hang out at shaft club and that if this stuff continued that i would see him there and it wouldnt be a very nice discussion. then i got up and left the room. the next day i walked in to the club, shock hands with the bar tender and sent the teacher over a drink. 2 minutes later i got up and walked over to the teacher and told him this is the last friendly meeting we will have and that i hope he understands what will happen if things dont get resolved.
needless to say the grade in that class went back up with the rest of them and he was answering all her questions with no problem
now if i didnt get involved my daughter and others would of suffered because he didnt want to be bothered. i was lucky i was able to find something that he didnt want to lose while it may not have been his job it was something that motivated him
The laws and practices that pertained to teachers when i was in school and the laws and practices now are not the same... so again, I never said that....
I will say that as Pennsylvania resident your teachers and the conditions of your schools are fairly unique... but how Pennsylvania is doesn't reflect the majority of the nation... Washington DC, New York, Illinois, California, and Pennsylvania kind of operate under a different code... as to your story... I'll take it with a grain of salt, but tell you that the situation you had is such a bizarre outlier as to be almost hard to address... Teachers in most places would be put on immediate leave in that situation... so don't let your tale affect your broader opinions of schools...
__________________
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."
The laws and practices that pertained to teachers when i was in school and the laws and practices now are not the same... so again, I never said that....
I will say that as Pennsylvania resident your teachers and the conditions of your schools are fairly unique... but how Pennsylvania is doesn't reflect the majority of the nation... Washington DC, New York, Illinois, California, and Pennsylvania kind of operate under a different code... as to your story... I'll take it with a grain of salt, but tell you that the situation you had is such a bizarre outlier as to be almost hard to address... Teachers in most places would be put on immediate leave in that situation... so don't let your tale affect your broader opinions of schools...
i cant comment on the conditions of teachers in another state or if they operate under different rules, because i dont know about all the other states.
teaching is no different than any other profession in regards to the fact that you have some good teachers and some bad teachers, but most are just average at best.
you claim that todays teachers are better and i ask how. today a college degree is pretty common. years ago it wasnt, you got a better college student because they wanted to be there, they respected the school and what that degree ment to them.now its nothing more than the next grade after high school. the standards dropped and we are seeing it in the finished product.
its asinine to think that teachers arent a big part of the problem when it comes to poor students. i do think alot of others factors come into play but teaching is also one of them
First of all... how am I protecting teachers with any comment I made? Next, what am I protecting them from? Lastly, I don't belong to a union... so play your guess around on someone else....
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