Fiedler-Feeley air speed...the dreaded OUT PATTERN (warning: in-depth)

[ckparrothead]

BTW I'm watching some more tape and I just saw on one of Feeley's subsequent throws (the one nearly intercepted/broken up by Mario Edwards) he threw it EXACTLY 10 yards vertically (easy to spot), pass took exactly half a second from release to deflection (15 frames), and the horizontal placement was a lot easier to spot this time because it was right by the number marks. In total he threw the ball in a straight line about 40 feet and the speed comes down to almost exactly 55 mph which supports my guess as far as how fast his out route pass was.

[MrClean]

Excellent CK! You are da man! This post of yours should be placed in the finheaven posts hall of fame.

[VJ1252]

nice work

[Phinsfan1980]

Wow, How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

[yankeehillbilly]

excellent job CK.

So, since you are so good with velocities, trajectories, A(sq) + B(sq)= C(sq), etc., tell me....was there another shooter on the grassy knoll ?

just kidding man....great job and great dedication.

[67Stang]

If they ran 40 yard dashes with their helmets off, would Jay's big dumbo ears be figured into the final time?
:roflmao:

[ZOD]

Originally Posted by yankeehillbilly

was there another shooter on the grassy knoll ?

I've read the evidence. I've stood on the tracks, the grassy knoll, the underpass, and I've been as close as they will allow you to the encased window. It was a turkey shoot.

[Ozzy]

That was some seriously superb breakdowns!!

First of all thanks for taking the time to do it!

Secondly, is there an even way to pin point the times of the release?

I was thinking about this during the game when Feeley completed that pass to Chambers. I thought that Feeley's release was a tad slow, which if worked on, would greatly increase the percentage rate of that pass, and greatly decrease the near Int. Especially with that kind of MPH....

[ckparrothead]

Thanks guys. Didn't actually take much more than a half hours looking, and heck I would have done that just to watch the gameplay again.

BTW keep in mind that the bigger the distance, the lower the average speed is going to end up being because the ball is slowing down considerably as it gets to the last 20 feet of its path, and also the greater the distance the bigger the arc the QB will tend to put on his pass. One thing I tend to notice is that Feeley will generally throw over the middle at about a 50 mph speed in intermediate sized passes, but when he needs to get it to the sidelines, he guns that sucker fast as fast can be.

As an example of how the average speed slows down over distance, that long 20+ yard pass to Chambers over the middle where the Bucs also got called for roughing the passer, to set up our TD, the ball traveled about 100 feet and averaged about 45 mph which is about the same speed as a Fiedler quick out pass lol. I think one thing to take away is, as fans and because of the camera angles, we really don't see how far out wide these QBs have to throw the ball on quick outs to get the ball racing to the sidelines.

I mean all these passes over the middle that I've mentioned, they went for 10+ yards or so, and yet the ball traveled as little as half the distance that the quick-out ball needed to travel to gain about 5 or 6 yards. Its no wonder though that the quick out has been a much-dreaded pass in Miami since the Fiedler era started.

[ckparrothead]

That was some seriously superb breakdowns!!

First of all thanks for taking the time to do it!

Secondly, is there an even way to pin point the times of the release?

I was thinking about this during the game when Feeley completed that pass to Chambers. I thought that Feeley's release was a tad slow, which if worked on, would greatly increase the percentage rate of that pass, and greatly decrease the near Int. Especially with that kind of MPH....

On that particular play, Feeley dropped back about two yards further than Fiedler did, because I think it was a 7 step drop. So, Feeley waited longer than Fiedler to get the ball out, comparatively. But there was a reason. On the play that Fiedler threw, Booker was split out wide, and his CB pulled back to cover deep because Chambers was split out just inside of Booker and Chambers' CB was playing close to the LOS (classic zone). Chambers peeled off and took his man with, opening up Booker for the "easy" quick out pass. In the Feeley version, Chambers was split wide, but then he went in motion all the way to the slot, then turned round and hung around where Booker was, so that CB Brian Kelly and the other CB (maybe Barber?) actually collided a little bit, slowing Brian Kelly down just enough to get Chambers (and the ball) the extra step.

Kelly though, really was expecting the quick out (and was expecting it later in the game too) and was really trying to jump on the quick out routes. He just managed to keep excellent coverage the whole time...it wasn't a situation where Chambers got open going horizontal then the delay allowed Kelly to catch up. He was there step for step the whole time, Feeley just pelted it fast enough and accurate enough that the step that Chambers had on Kelly ensured that Kelly had no chance on it.

[VJ1252]

so does this mean we now have mathmatical evidece that jay sucks?

[fins4o8]

very nice...........

[ckparrothead]

About AJ's release, he's got a full wind-up on a lot of throws, makes his release look a little slow, but I think he's got a quick release in general...quicker than Jay's. No stat evidence to back it up tho. A wind-up is so fast that I would be comparing like 3 frames to 2 frames or 3 frames to 3 frames etc.

I do know that on the long 100 foot pass down the field to Chambers where he dropped it over a few defenders, it seemed like he took a 3/4 delivery off his back foot because there was a defender running straight for him head on (the guy actually laid the hit and got called for roughing the passer), and the ball still zipped down the field faster than what I found Jay Fiedler's "fastball" to be traveling...take from that what you will...

[Ozzy]

Originally Posted by ckparrothead

On that particular play, Feeley dropped back about two yards further than Fiedler did, because I think it was a 7 step drop. So, Feeley waited longer than Fiedler to get the ball out, comparatively. But there was a reason. On the play that Fiedler threw, Booker was split out wide, and his CB pulled back to cover deep because Chambers was split out just inside of Booker and Chambers' CB was playing close to the LOS (classic zone). Chambers peeled off and took his man with, opening up Booker for the "easy" quick out pass. In the Feeley version, Chambers was split wide, but then he went in motion all the way to the slot, then turned round and hung around where Booker was, so that CB Brian Kelly and the other CB (maybe Barber?) actually collided a little bit, slowing Brian Kelly down just enough to get Chambers (and the ball) the extra step.

Kelly though, really was expecting the quick out (and was expecting it later in the game too) and was really trying to jump on the quick out routes. He just managed to keep excellent coverage the whole time...it wasn't a situation where Chambers got open going horizontal then the delay allowed Kelly to catch up. He was there step for step the whole time, Feeley just pelted it fast enough and accurate enough that the step that Chambers had on Kelly ensured that Kelly had no chance on it.

Thanks again, I don't have the resources you have so it's appreciated.

When a Qb has a quick release, and some zip on the ball, you want the corner to expect that route. That's what it's all about! Making him go for the ball, not the wide out, which in Chambers/Kelly's case he didnt. I thought that was an all around good play by the Qb, Wr, and the Corner.

Although I really hate that pattern, but if everything goes right, it can lead to a long gain, or a TD, that includes the other receivers taking their men to right spot, and boxing them out. Especially the Safety on the side of the play.

[Ozzy]

Originally Posted by ckparrothead

About AJ's release, he's got a full wind-up on a lot of throws, makes his release look a little slow, but I think he's got a quick release in general...quicker than Jay's. No stat evidence to back it up tho. A wind-up is so fast that I would be comparing like 3 frames to 2 frames or 3 frames to 3 frames etc.

I do know that on the long 100 foot pass down the field to Chambers where he dropped it over a few defenders, it seemed like he took a 3/4 delivery off his back foot because there was a defender running straight for him head on (the guy actually laid the hit and got called for roughing the passer), and the ball still zipped down the field faster than what I found Jay Fiedler's "fastball" to be traveling...take from that what you will...

It's really hard to gauge how quick the Qb's release is in practices, so I was looking for someone elses perspective on it now that we've seen him in a few games.