Saban's Defense

[CVass]

Who should I contact about a column or something of that nature and do you think they would be interested?

[rafael]

Originally Posted by CVass

That is not true. 4-3 Lineman are given one gap, hence why they are shaded. 3-4 Lineman are lined head-up on the lineman so they can go to either gap. In our system, the DTs didn't get much penetration because we had Taylor, Ogunleye, etc, and it had more to do with personnel. However, in many 4-3 systems, the Tackles get just as much penetration... I.E. Why Sapp was the sack master in Tampa with the one gap scheme and did nothing (stats wise) with the Raiders playing two-gap.

I have many playbooks and in none of them do a 4-3 lineman have a two gap responsibility. They are ALWAYS shaded to a gap. The only time one could stretch and say that they have a 2 gap responsibility is on Flow to and away. But even there, you penetrate your gap and if the play goes to the other side, you push your way into that area. This is also why 4-3 lines are considered attacking lines, where 3-4 lines are "read and react." You don't need to read and react in the 4-3; you read on the move fighting your way through the block.

Thanks. I was hoping you'd chime in with some confirmation. Although I thought the defense under Olividotti (sp?) was a 4-3 and considered a read and react.

[BigDogsHunt]

Originally Posted by CVass

Who should I contact about a column or something of that nature and do you think they would be interested?

I suspect the Mods could point you in the right direction especially for this site. They maybe able to get you in touch with the team from a more official capacity too.

But not sure if the Team would really want you to post actual plays and give to much away.....I wonder how protective they are about stuff like this. Certainly, as history shows, many folks in command and control positions are overly-anal about letting secrets out (regardless if they are really secrets or not....hahahahaa). Getting this stuff on eBay cracks me up. Friggin internet world always amazes me. Love it.

good luck, its been a pleasure to read the insight and the posting of the 2 front page scans really helps me understand the base scheme. Very very cool.

[arsenal]

well in a standard 4-3 usually each lineman has a 1 gap assignment and are told to shoot there gap off the snap (unless stunting or something) and really aren't considered to be in a read and react position... but with how complex some defenses are im sure there are systems where thats switched up...

[CVass]

Originally Posted by rafael

Thanks. I was hoping you'd chime in with some confirmation. Although I thought the defense under Olividotti (sp?) was a 4-3 and considered a read and react.

I don't know much about the details of the Olivadotti defense to be honest. Most defenses are read and react as a whole. However, I am speaking about the line. If you have 1 gap, and only 1 gap, the advantage is you can be aggressive. As a lineman, you only have to worry about one gap so you can attack and read on the run. However, with two gap, you can't commit to either gap until you know where the play is going (hence why the counter and cut back lanes are more worried about in the 3-4). Olivadotti could have been a read and react front, but I think most 4-3 coaches realize now that an aggressive front with one gap responsbilities is the advantage of the 4-3. That defense is all about getting up field, forcing the play, and letting the LBs cover their backs. This is why you hear why the draws or screens can defeat an aggressive 4-3 team.

From what I have read, most, if not all read and react schemes are 3-4 and 5-2 fronts.

Anyone out there who may know better than I that can tell me otherwise? I'm always all ears!

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by CVass

Who should I contact about a column or something of that nature and do you think they would be interested?

maybe using tape of certain plays from the game you can write out whats going on about it or something... i think it would be a good idea, and i love defense and analyzing the plays they run and the formations, etc... if you need a hand let me know...

[BigDogsHunt]

Originally Posted by CVass

Close, we have a 2 Gap NT, and a 2 Gap End who plays the Heavy 5 technique. The Heavy 5 is a 4 technique but slightly shaded. However, you're still playing a 2 gap technique.

Ok, so again, did Saban create his own scheme? Is this revoluntary the way the Ryan 46 defense was?

I just wonder again....How different is this 3-4 scheme than what NE uses, or Pittsburgh?

(with Saban and BB having such a close relationship, this has to be known to BB correct? Or did Saban create it and not share it with BB? If so, that would crack me up.)

How different is this 3-4 approach to old-time 3-4 defenses? Did "traditional" 3-4 all have 2 gap roles vs. this hybrid mix?

Is it strickly unique because the NT is 2 gap, and he uses a 2 gap End, but all others are 1 gappers. Is thats what unigue in that its an either or and a mix of 2 gap and 1 gap assingments?

Also, are the DB's simply playing a zone, cover 2 or Man-to-Man regardless of the over/under front used? I quess what I am saying, are they just all on their own regardless of the the lines and LB gap assingments?

Lastly, (sorry I know I have several questions already) in general how does the 1 gap guy know which gap the 2 gapper is going to take? Is there a key or a tell they watch so they both dont hit the same gap and leave one wide open?

thanks again -

[CVass]

Originally Posted by Dolphins_SR66

I suspect the Mods could point you in the right direction especially for this site. They maybe able to get you in touch with the team from a more official capacity too.

But not sure if the Team would really want you to post actual plays and give to much away.....I wonder how protective they are about stuff like this. Certainly, as history shows, many folks in command and control positions are overly-anal about letting secrets out (regardless if they are really secrets or not....hahahahaa). Getting this stuff on eBay cracks me up. Friggin internet world always amazes me. Love it.

good luck, its been a pleasure to read the insight and the posting of the 2 front page scans really helps me understand the base scheme. Very very cool.

Hey thanks for the direction. Yeah, I am sure they wouldn't encourage me to post the pictures and stuff like that. I almost didn't say that I had the playbooks for fear of some angry staffers being like "HE'S RELEASING SECRETS!!!" But I thought about it and thought that (a) this stuff is on EBAY! and (b) if you're a defensive coordinator, you can deduce this stuff from watching film. Alignments and gap responsibilities can be determined on sight.

Anyway, I am so glad that people actually took the time to figure this stuff out and that I was able to explain it in some pseudo-understandable way. I thought people would see the length and Crash 6, Heavy 5, all the flip flopping, and be like "SCREW THIS!" Anyway, y'all have been great and I am definitely glad I began posting here!

[BigDogsHunt]

Originally Posted by CVass

Hey thanks for the direction. Yeah, I am sure they wouldn't encourage me to post the pictures and stuff like that. I almost didn't say that I had the playbooks for fear of some angry staffers being like "HE'S RELEASING SECRETS!!!" But I thought about it and thought that (a) this stuff is on EBAY! and (b) if you're a defensive coordinator, you can deduce this stuff from watching film. Alignments and gap responsibilities can be determined on sight.

Anyway, I am so glad that people actually took the time to figure this stuff out and that I was able to explain it in some pseudo-understandable way. I thought people would see the length and Crash 6, Heavy 5, all the flip flopping, and be like "SCREW THIS!" Anyway, y'all have been great and I am definitely glad I began posting here!

LOL....would be wild if this was sniffed out and you were approached from other teams trying to defeat or match what Saban has created.

You will of course turn those offers down, correct? :rofl3: :rofl3:

[CVass]

Originally Posted by Dolphins_SR66

LOL....would be wild if this was sniffed out and you were approached from other teams trying to defeat or match what Saban has created.

You will of course turn those offers down, correct? :rofl3: :rofl3:

HAHA! I just thought some super-intense fans that didn't know that these coordinators, with a lot of knowledge and some NFL film can break this down. (Or even an EBAY account!) I just thought they would get super pissed for some reason or another.

Oh, and if that's not the case.. I would turn down the offers! Maybe...

Heh, I'll get to your questions ASAP because I am working on a test!

[CVass]

QUESTIONS FROM Dolphins_SR66
1) Ok, so again, did Saban create his own scheme? Is this revoluntary the way the Ryan 46 defense was?

I do not think so. I have seen something very similar to this defense in Madden 06. The Over/Under options in the 3-4 are almost identical to these two defenses.

2) I just wonder again....How different is this 3-4 scheme than what NE uses, or Pittsburgh?

Different in alignments up front. The Ends are aligned by direction not techniques. In NE, Seymour is the RE and Warren is the LE. (Pit van Oelhoffen on the right, Aaron Smith on the left). In our system, Holliday could be on the right or left depending on the Over/Under call. He doesn't play a position, but technique. Look at the fronts and he would play where ver the 3 technique is. To prove this, look at most 3-4 teams and their alignment on NFL.com. Pit and NE don't have an Outside End; their "OE" is usually their ROLB which would be Vrabel and Porter.

Their fronts also line-up in a strictly even technique (as their base). Their NT lines up over the Center and their Ends line up over the tackles (4 technique). Their OLBs generally line up in the 9 technique and MLB's in a 30. (I also have an old Belichick playbook from when he was with the Jets in 97).

3) with Saban and BB having such a close relationship, this has to be known to BB correct? Or did Saban create it and not share it with BB? If so, that would crack me up.

I am sure they have shared this. Apparently Bill and Nick meet every off-season, drink tea, and talk about feelings. Apparently Nick was showing Bill some of his coverages and Bill was stunned since these types of coverages weren't even run in the NFL.

4) How different is this 3-4 approach to old-time 3-4 defenses? Did "traditional" 3-4 all have 2 gap roles vs. this hybrid mix?

The differences are explained in Question 2. The "traditional" 3-4 has 2 gap roles across the front 3.

5) Is it strickly unique because the NT is 2 gap, and he uses a 2 gap End, but all others are 1 gappers. Is thats what unigue in that its an either or and a mix of 2 gap and 1 gap assingments?

Yes, that is where the unique part lies. Also, as I have said before, the OLBs flip-flops compared to the traditional 3-4.

6) Also, are the DB's simply playing a zone, cover 2 or Man-to-Man regardless of the over/under front used? I quess what I am saying, are they just all on their own regardless of the the lines and LB gap assingments?

Yes and No... Only certain coverages are played in each front. If you look in the pictures, it has the coverages that can be played out of each front. (EX. Cover 8/3) The DBs alignment is dictated by the coverage, not the front... However, only certain coverages can be used with certain fronts, so in a way, the front does dictate the availability of a coverage (confusing ehhh?). Interestingly enough, Saban's book is laid out in pieces and for Fall practice so he can teach the defense in order of importance. Most of the focus is taught on Cover 3, Cover 1, and Sub-Cover 6 (which is a check coverage for Twin WRs). There is a great deal of man to man as most coaches teach their DBs man-to-man first. This is to build confidence.

7) Lastly, (sorry I know I have several questions already) in general how does the 1 gap guy know which gap the 2 gapper is going to take? Is there a key or a tell they watch so they both dont hit the same gap and leave one wide open?

The nature of their alignment would prevent them from colliding. If you look at the diagram, there is no way that the 2 gappers would collide. The End (5 tech) is responsible for the B (between G and T) and C (between T and TE) gap to their side, and the NT is responsible for both A gaps (between C and G). The 2 gapper takes the gap where the action is coming from. The 1 gapper is not worried about where the 2 goes per say. They have their one gap and their job is to get up-field or just clog their gap. They are doing their job and they need to stay there. They stay in their lanes because of the threat of the cut-back. Unless there is a stunt, this remains true.

Hope that shed some light for ya...

[alexwr4]

Cvass, You are The MAN!! thanks so much

[CVass]

Originally Posted by arsenal

maybe using tape of certain plays from the game you can write out whats going on about it or something... i think it would be a good idea, and i love defense and analyzing the plays they run and the formations, etc... if you need a hand let me know...

The only thing I can think of that would help me is if someone can find a way to take still images from the game and put them on the net and send them to me. If I could get some still images from behind (preferably) the defense, I could do alot of analysis. My roomate has a TIVO-like device, but I can't get it rigged to do the still image thing.

So I guess, to anyone who would like to help me, next time you're going through a game, pause any shots from behind the defense and capture them as images and e-mail them to me (if this is even possible). Thanks guys and I will do whatever I can to share the knowledge. When I break this stuff down for you all, I learn nuances of the D that I didn't see before.

I love this D so much, I will probably cop it if I ever get to coach and have the personnel

[CVass]

Originally Posted by alexwr4

Cvass, You are The MAN!! thanks so much

How can I be the man, when you're the man?

[finmann]

CVass...This is got to be the best post this year by far, talk about reading something different and learning as well. I won't pretend to know that I get all of it, but I seem to understand the jist of what you are saying. Again....great post.