Food for thought

[FinsFan74]

1st off let me say that I am in no way, shape, or form supporting the New England Patriots in this thread. 2nd I have a scenario to ask everyone's opinion on. Given the recent news about the Patriots "spying" fiasco, I'm curious to see what you all would do or like to see happen in the future. We know teams have spied in the past, the Patriots just happened to get caught after trying to make an art out of it. Of course spying will always be illegal, but here is something to ponder.
Would you rather.......
A)have a good run over a decade winning several Super Bowls along the way, only to have them "tarnished" forever because you were singled out and caught spying......or
B) Allow ALL teams to videotape (all in so to speak) so if you win those Super Bowls there won't be any "scandalous" asterisk by it forever?

[trayphin]

You forgot:
C) Win a championship through honesty, hardwork, and dedication.

I wouldn't be surprised if after this is all said and done that we see headsets in defensive captains helmets to eliminate the problem entirely. Yes there are some issues with different players for different defensive sets...but they will find a way around that.

[SpaceMountain16]

The Patriots aren't the only team to have cheated, they were the ones caught, and because they spied on teams doesn't lessen how good of a team they are and have been. Does it tarnish their legacy, certainly. Will they lose their Super Bowls or their place in history as a modern day dynasty, no. 3 of 4 Super Bowls in the Salary Cap era is incredible and will never be duplicated.

I have a bigger issue with the Patriots because they are bunch of classless jerks who cheat, Bill Belichick is a completely classless creep. Tom Brady is still one of the best QB's to ever play the game, and again, the Patriots of this decade surely have to rank right up with the 90's Cowboys and 70's Steelers and 80's 49ers.

[FinsFan74]

Originally Posted by trayphin

You forgot:
C) Win a championship through honesty, hardwork, and dedication.

I wouldn't be surprised if after this is all said and done that we see headsets in defensive captains helmets to eliminate the problem entirely. Yes there are some issues with different players for different defensive sets...but they will find a way around that.

Oh I totally agree with C.....BUT....in this day and age, look at everything that's going on. Everyone is trying to gain the competitive edge whether it's steroid allegations, or spying. Unfortunately I think the days of complete honesty and dedication are over in many different aspects of sports in general

[TomBradyWoot]

Originally Posted by trayphin

You forgot:
C) Win a championship through honesty, hardwork, and dedication.

I wouldn't be surprised if after this is all said and done that we see headsets in defensive captains helmets to eliminate the problem entirely. Yes there are some issues with different players for different defensive sets...but they will find a way around that.

Now wait a minute, are you saying the Patriots didn't work hard and dedicate themselves? Look you can say what you want, but video taping coaches defensive signals doesn't give you any free passes. You will always have to put in hard work and dedication.

[MR NFLFAN]

Originally Posted by FinsFan74

Oh I totally agree with C.....BUT....in this day and age, look at everything that's going on. Everyone is trying to gain the competitive edge whether it's steroid allegations, or spying. Unfortunately I think the days of complete honesty and dedication are over in many different aspects of sports in general

I think the the days of complete honesty were over a long long time ago in the NFL. All the events of spygate have served to do is to take away the naivete and innocense of the Fans.

[Coral Reefer]

Originally Posted by MR NFLFAN

I think the the days of complete honesty were over a long long time ago in the NFL. All the events of spygate have served to do is to take away the naivete and innocense of the Fans.

At least the fans in New England.

Makes "perfect" sense.

[TomBradyWoot]

Originally Posted by Coral Reefer

At least the fans in New England.

Makes "perfect" sense.

Glad to see you make less than "one" point.

[SpaceMountain16]

The reason the Patriots won isn't because of Belichick's tactics. Or him being a classless creep. It's because of Tom Brady, one of the great QB's to ever play the game, the numbers dont lie. Bill Belichick was 41-57 before Tom Brady started a regular season game. Belichick isn't a genius, he didn't magically turn into a genius over night. He had a stroke of luck and came across one of the best Quarterbacks of all-time.

[MR NFLFAN]

Originally Posted by Coral Reefer

At least the fans in New England.

Makes "perfect" sense.

I'm guessing you still believe in Santa Claus too.

[Coral Reefer]

Originally Posted by MR NFLFAN

I'm guessing you still believe in Santa Claus too.

I would have put odds at 18-1 against him but after this last Super Bowl it became perfectly clear that there is a Santa.

[MattM]

Originally Posted by MR NFLFAN

I'm guessing you still believe in Santa Claus too.

I love this line of logic from Pats* fans--"everyone does it, we just got caught". It's usually followed these days by some kind of "ooh, you all better watch out, because Kraft and BB have stuff on all of you, too". I'll be the first to call BS on that idea. Bring on the investigation, full steam ahead. I suspect when it's done, all we'll really learn is that the Pats* found many, many ways to cheat and that this is the tip of the iceberg. Anyone who's watched their games over the last 10 years or so knows that the officiating they often got late in close games was more than a little suspect, for ex. Just ask the Ravens players who got fined this year, or Andre Reed, who overheard a ref say "just give it to them" in a game in the late '90s on a horrible call that helped the Pats* get a victory late in the 4th and who also got fined for reporting this to the press. I have a hunch this might get a whole lot worse for the Pats* and their "fans" (most of whom started watching "their team" about 2002) before it gets better.....

[Coral Reefer]

Originally Posted by MattM

I love this line of logic from Pats* fans--"everyone does it, we just got caught". It's usually followed these days by some kind of "ooh, you all better watch out, because Kraft and BB have stuff on all of you, too". I'll be the first to call BS on that idea. Bring on the investigation, full steam ahead. I suspect when it's done, all we'll really learn is that the Pats* found many, many ways to cheat and that this is the tip of the iceberg. Anyone who's watched their games over the last 10 years or so knows that the officiating they often got late in close games was more than a little suspect, for ex. Just ask the Ravens players who got fined this year, or Andre Reed, who overheard a ref say "just give it to them" in a game in the late '90s on a horrible call that helped the Pats* get a victory late in the 4th and who also got fined for reporting this to the press. I have a hunch this might get a whole lot worse for the Pats* and their "fans" (most of whom started watching "their team" about 2002) before it gets better.....

I love that as well.

There were nothing but full denials that the Pasties were capable of such a thing by Pasty fans just a couple of weeks ago and now, just like you said, it's "Well everyone has been doing it for ages".

Funny how none of the other teams that make the "greatest teams ever lists" never had anything like this come up.

[MR NFLFAN]

Originally Posted by MattM

I love this line of logic from Pats* fans--"everyone does it, we just got caught". It's usually followed these days by some kind of "ooh, you all better watch out, because Kraft and BB have stuff on all of you, too". I'll be the first to call BS on that idea. Bring on the investigation, full steam ahead. I suspect when it's done, all we'll really learn is that the Pats* found many, many ways to cheat and that this is the tip of the iceberg. Anyone who's watched their games over the last 10 years or so knows that the officiating they often got late in close games was more than a little suspect, for ex. Just ask the Ravens players who got fined this year, or Andre Reed, who overheard a ref say "just give it to them" in a game in the late '90s on a horrible call that helped the Pats* get a victory late in the 4th and who also got fined for reporting this to the press. I have a hunch this might get a whole lot worse for the Pats* and their "fans" (most of whom started watching "their team" about 2002) before it gets better.....

As mush as I love your logic of denial
Merry Christmas boys

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...aniels/?page=2
Signal from Johnson

Fox studio analyst Jimmy Johnson reiterated his stance that the NFL's punishment of the Patriots' illegal videotaping procedures this year was overblown. He spoke passionately on the subject.

"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion," Johnson said, reflecting on his coaching tenure with the Cowboys. "That's just part of the game, that's stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long.
"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters - is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'How far can you go without breaking the rules?' When I coached the Cowboys, we didn't have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that."




"There are none so blind as those who will not see"

-Jonathan Swift-

[unluckyluciano]

Originally Posted by MR NFLFAN

He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.

Pushed to the limit as opposed to breaking the rule completely.

“Lovers always think that other people are blind”

Spanish Proverb