Grading the AFCE draft

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by dob72

lol yea ok

1 playoff appearance since 2001(w/ an 8-8 record) in a weak div and conf.- yeah he's a winner!

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

If you think Allen is better than madison(even a declining madison) then you haven't watched Allen play. Neither is very good at this point but Sam is still alot better.

Sorry but I'll trust Nick Saban's judgement over yours in all football matters.....

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Wagon Circler

I was quite pleased with our draft. All the players we drafted filled obvious needs and we got some real good talent.

It doesn't matter to me that the goons at espn chose the bills to do a "what were they thinking" on. I'll tell you what we were thinking...fix the defense and grab some O-line. I'll tell you what we weren't thinking...."Boy I wonder if Mel Kiper will think this pick is a reach?"

Listen, I know more about my bills and our team needs a lot better than Mr. Mel Kiper, or Sean Salisbery, or Mike Golic, or Mark Schlerith, or Trey Wingo. So I'm not about to let those fools or any other divisional fan tell me what we need or what was a reach. Dwight Freeney was considered a big reach when Indy took him a while ago, look how that worked out for them.

Sorry draft grades and gurus aren't end all be all. I loved Marv's first draft and I'm still counting my lucky stars we got him back. Afterall, the bills could have went through another TD draft...

Are you the same wagoncircler that is posting on the Buffalo Range?

[Wagon Circler]

Originally Posted by FinfanInBuffalo

Are you the same wagoncircler that is posting on the Buffalo Range?

No. I post here and on BZ.

[Phin-o-rama]

what happened to your post count WC?

[BillsCA]

4. Bills(they are the laughing stock of the draft by many places and they know it too)[/quote]

Keeping an objective mind on the draft, here's how bad it 'sucked' according to NFL.com writers...
QUOTE

Vic Carucci's first-round mock...


26. Chicago: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
At nearly 6-0 and 189 pounds, Youboty figures to have the size the Bears want from a cornerback in their Cover 2 scheme. He also has enough speed and athleticism to carve out an outstanding NFL career.

31. Seattle: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State
The Seahawks fill a need with a solid player who does a nice job in zone coverage and can hold his own in man-to-man in nickel and dime schemes.

32. Pittsburgh: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
White could be here, and perhaps the Steelers would make him the power back replacement for Jerome Bettis. But Simpson, who offers an impressive combination of size (6-1 and 203 pounds) and playmaking ability, also would address a need and perhaps with less risk.


Kirwan's first mock

Second Round:

42. Buffalo: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
44. Baltimore: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina

Kirwan's second mock

31. Seattle: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State
Last week, I felt the Seahawks would take offensive guard Davin Joseph here, but two line coaches convinced me he spends too much time in a two-point stance. Whitner is at a need position and he ran 4.38 at his Pro Day. Seattle takes a guard in the second round.

SECOND ROUND

42. Buffalo: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
43. Cleveland: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
56. N.Y. Giants: John McCargo, DT, N.C. State

Pat Kirwan's final mock

21. New England: Donte Whitner, DB, Ohio State

32. Pittsburgh: Ko Simpson, DB, South Carolina

"Keep in mind, there are still a number of players who could go in the first round. Cornerback Johnathan Joseph (South Carolina), guard Davin Joseph (Oklahoma), defensive tackle John McCargo (N.C. State), running backs LenDale White (USC) and Joseph Addai (LSU) and defensive end Mathais Kiwanuka (Boston College) all have first-round grades on at least one draft board out there and it would not surprise me to hear their names called. " ~ Pat Kirwan

Gil Brant's "Top-5 Defense" by position...

Top-5 DT's
1 Brodrick Bunkley Florida State 6-2¾ 306 4.95
2 Haloti Ngata Oregon 6-4 1/8 338 5.18
3 John McCargo N.C. State 6-1½ 302 5.19
4 Gabe Watson Michigan 6-3½ 338 5.30
5 Claude Wroten LSU 6-2 302 no time

Top-5 Safeties
1 Donte Whitner Ohio State 5-10 1/8 204 4.45
2 Daniel Bullocks Nebraska 6-0½ 212 4.40
3 Darnell Bing Southern Cal 6-2 225 4.58
4 Ko Simpson South Carolina 6-1 209 4.44
5 Anthony Smith Syracuse 6-0 1/8 194 4.73

For comparision:

Michael Huff was listed number one as a CB, where he'll probably play in Oakland...



Mike Mayock's first-round mock draft...

8. Buffalo: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State



Pretty much the 'experts' on NFL.COM had our first four picks valued in the first and second rounds...

[miaD5499]

Originally Posted by MillerTime

exactly, we got the right guys for our cover 2 defense, it calls for quick players and McCargo is real quick and same with Whitner(4.38). We got the guys we needed and the right guys for our system, I could care less where Mel Kiper had them going.

who cares about reaches? are you serious you probably lost your self a few million dollars there taking him in the top 10 rather than trading down and drafting him in the mid to late teens, yea i agree you got the player you wanted but at a hefty price and when you could of obtained more draft picks but we're talking about the bills here and this kind of stuff is to complicated for your owner

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by FinfanInBuffalo

Sorry but I'll trust Nick Saban's judgement over yours in all football matters.....

I would too but we'll see what happens.

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Originally Posted by BillsCA

Keeping an objective mind on the draft, here's how bad it 'sucked' according to NFL.com writers...

I noticed that you conveniently ignored the fact that Carucci's latest mock draft had Jason Allen going before Donte Whitner. He projected 3 safeties near the end of round 1. That is the point that everyone who has criticized Buffalo's picks have made, they could have gotten Whitner plus at least one extra first day pick. Also He didn't show McCargo going in the first round. So, according to a source that you brought up, they paid too much for McCargo also.

You also forgot Mike Mayock's ranking of the safeties:

1. Jason Allen, Tennessee
2. Donte Whitner, Ohio State

I saw one ranking where Jason Allen was ranked as the #1 CB and the #1 safety.

Thank you for validating my opinion of Buffalo's first rwo picks.....

[BE GOOD]

My Grades:
Jets:A-
Bills:C
Dolphins:B
Patriots:B-

[Mike13]

Dr.Z also said Allen was the best safety in the draft.

[nick1]

Originally Posted by PatsSuck456

Dr.Z also said Allen was the best safety in the draft.

and Kiper said Hagan was the best WR in the draft, we got the best safety and the best WR in the draft. not bad at all

[Wagon Circler]

Originally Posted by nick1

and Kiper said Hagan was the best WR in the draft, we got the best safety and the best WR in the draft. not bad at all

Yeah, because if Mel Kiper says so then it must be true.

Please. Whitner at 8 was fine. Our guys didn't want to watch him go a few spots later and miss him. I'm fine with it and support the decision.

Then everybody talks about the "reach" in McCargo even though the Giants probably would have gone for him at 32, but were forced to take the end instead.

Want to know what else Kiper said? If we had gotten Youboty in the second and McCargo in the third nobody would be saying ****. We would still have the same damn players but it would have "looked better".

We got the players we wanted. Simple as that.

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Wagon Circler

Yeah, because if Mel Kiper says so then it must be true.

Please. Whitner at 8 was fine. Our guys didn't want to watch him go a few spots later and miss him. I'm fine with it and support the decision.

Then everybody talks about the "reach" in McCargo even though the Giants probably would have gone for him at 32, but were forced to take the end instead.

Want to know what else Kiper said? If we had gotten Youboty in the second and McCargo in the third nobody would be saying ****. We would still have the same damn players but it would have "looked better".

We got the players we wanted. Simple as that.

????

So IF Houston had taken David Anderson with the 1st pick, and Mario Williams with the 251st pick, that would make taking David Anderson at #1 okay?????

WTF kind of logic is that?

Whitner at #8 was a reach. This is what happens when a rookie GM falls in love with one player. The #8 pick was worth at least a pick at 15 and a second round pick to go with it. IMO, Whitner would still have been there. The Bills get a pick, pay him less money, and lose nothing.

If not, Allen would have been there. The question is whether Allen + another good player would be worth more than Whitner. IMO, yes.

The Bills should have gotten Whitner, McCargo, another 2nd round pick, and another 3rd round pick. The team has way too many holes to lock on to two players in a deep draft. Very poor strategy. If concern over the lack of DTs was so big, they should have drafted Bunkley first and gotten a safety later. Levy panicked. The team needs help at LB, OL, QB, and WR. Their pass rush is a mess. They have no one who can get to the passer at crunchtime without blitzing. A pass rushing DE would have helped.

The irony is that I could probably find 100 posts by Bills fans claiming that taking Eddie Moore in the 2nd was a reach. They even argued that even if he works out, it wouldn't matter because he would have been available later.

You got the players you wanted, but missed out on two more. It's as simple as that.

[Wagon Circler]

Originally Posted by FinfanInBuffalo

????

So IF Houston had taken David Anderson with the 1st pick, and Mario Williams with the 251st pick, that would make taking David Anderson at #1 okay?????

WTF kind of logic is that?

Whitner at #8 was a reach. This is what happens when a rookie GM falls in love with one player. The #8 pick was worth at least a pick at 15 and a second round pick to go with it. IMO, Whitner would still have been there. The Bills get a pick, pay him less money, and lose nothing.

If not, Allen would have been there. The question is whether Allen + another good player would be worth more than Whitner. IMO, yes.

The Bills should have gotten Whitner, McCargo, another 2nd round pick, and another 3rd round pick. The team has way too many holes to lock on to two players in a deep draft. Very poor strategy. If concern over the lack of DTs was so big, they should have drafted Bunkley first and gotten a safety later. Levy panicked. The team needs help at LB, OL, QB, and WR. Their pass rush is a mess. They have no one who can get to the passer at crunchtime without blitzing. A pass rushing DE would have helped.

The irony is that I could probably find 100 posts by Bills fans claiming that taking Eddie Moore in the 2nd was a reach. They even argued that even if he works out, it wouldn't matter because he would have been available later.

You got the players you wanted, but missed out on two more. It's as simple as that.

Maybe in a perfect world. it takes two teams to trade down.

I also had a dream draft scenario...we took Brick. That didn't happen.

You can bash our draft all you want, but as a bills fan I can honestly say I was quite pleased with the draft and that's all that matters.