I understand that some of you think your team....

[The Myth]

It is good many of you think your team could make the playoffs and unseat the Three time SB champion Patriots.
It is good to have faith in your team. All of the Teams in the AFC East have made some moves. It is mainly why some think things like the Patriots run to be over. But just stop and take a real look at what the Patriots have this season.
OC and DC The Offense under Weis was set up and run by as many as 4 coaches. This has not changed People who know the players and who the players know are still running the O.
But what has changed is....
O-Line additions Logan Mankins, Nick Kazur and Brian Anderson add size, power, speed, and youth to an already good line.
The one loss from the line is Andruzzi Who was not the strongest link for that line.
Mankins and Kazur are faster,stronger, and more moble than Andruzzi ever was.
The return of Tom Ashworth will greatly improve the Rt spot.

WRs--- David Terrel, and Tim Dwight easily make up for Patten. Even if both of them where bust there is Bethel Johnson, PK Sam, Michael McGrew, and Cedric James ready to step in. That is behind David Givens, Deion Branch, and Troy Brown.

TEs---We all know how good Dan Graham has become. He is a very good Receiver and an outstanding blocker. Add to that Ben Watson a 6'4" 255 TE with great hands, good blocking skills and 4.3/40 speed. Christian Fauria continues to be a solid player.

RBs--- Corey Dillon 1600+ yards behind a weaked beaten up O-Line. Kevin Faulk is still a real solid threat to rip a big run from the outside or after catching a quick screen. Cedric Cobbs finaly healthy after fighting a hamstring injury that was misstreated at Arkansas. His power speed and style is much the same as Dillons.


DC--- Eric Mangini is the new DC and has been with Belichick for 10 years and the Patriots for as long as Belichick and Crennel have been. There is no drop off at all with this move.

D-Line--- Talk about depth Traylor was let go because he was not good enough to hang with these guys. Vince Wilfork became a beast quickly enough to claim the starting DT job as a rookie. The Starting DEs Seymoure and Warren have both been DTs for this team. As has the #1 backup DE Jarvis Green. Ethan Kelly a very powerfull DT who came from a very bad program (Baylor) needed time to develop the pro skills. BB feels he has done that now and is ready to be Wilforks main backup. Then there are DEs Marquise Hill, and Rodney Bailey solid DEs who will prove great help as backups.

LBs--- Yes the possible loss of Teddy Bruschi made many fans worry. But you have got to hand it to Belichick and Pioli they went out and made the LB spot stronger. Adding Ryan Claridge a very good Inside/outside LB in the Draft.
Monty Beisel ILB, and Chad Brown ILB/OLB, in FA plus the real nice development of Tully Banta-Cain OLB, Eric Alexander ILB, and ongoing work of Dan Klecko ILB. This along with the vets Ted Johnson, Willie McGinest, Mike Vrabel, and Rosevelt Colvin the LBs have never been deeper or more talented.

DBs--- Law played only 6 full games last season. So he is hardly a loss.
The additions of Safetys James Sanders, Antuan Edwards, and Raymond Ventrone, along with the return of Guss Scott and the (IMO) move to safety of Chad Scott lets the Patriots move Eugene Wilson back to CB where he really should be.
With the Additions of CBs Ellis Hobbs, and Duane Starks. The oportunity for Hank Poteat to go to TC and learn the system,( Hey for a guy who was pulled out of a college classroom to play right away, He did an outstanding job.) The depth is great.
Patriots have Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Rodney Harrison, Don Davis, and Randall Gay all with starting experiance. I expect Ty Poole and Dexter Reid to be cut. No one has done enough to end the run as of yet. Good luck keep trying.

[Disgustipate]

Originally Posted by The Myth

It is good many of you think your team could make the playoffs and unseat the Three time SB champion Patriots.
It is good to have faith in your team. All of the Teams in the AFC East have made some moves. It is mainly why some think things like the Patriots run to be over. But just stop and take a real look at what the Patriots have this season.

An NFL franchise is like a shark... Keep moving or die. The Patriots, and the rest of the division havent moved much, if at all.

Originally Posted by The Myth

OC and DC The Offense under Weis was set up and run by as many as 4 coaches. This has not changed People who know the players and who the players know are still running the O.
But what has changed is....

It was run by 4 different coaches? Uh, no. It might have had assistance from 4 different coaches, but for the health scare, it was Charlie Weis who was the main force behind the offense. Whether Belichick can run that along with the rest of the team remain to be seen. Whether Brady can in practice run the offense with a greater responsibility remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by The Myth

O-Line additions Logan Mankins, Nick Kazur and Brian Anderson add size, power, speed, and youth to an already good line.
The one loss from the line is Andruzzi Who was not the strongest link for that line.
Mankins and Kazur are faster,stronger, and more moble than Andruzzi ever was.
The return of Tom Ashworth will greatly improve the Rt spot.

Wow, that's a whole lot of nonsense platitudes. Brian Anderson? Who in the hell is Brian Anderson? You are most definately throwing a bunch of crap up against the wall and hoping some of it sticks.

Originally Posted by The Myth

WRs--- David Terrel, and Tim Dwight easily make up for Patten. Even if both of them where bust there is Bethel Johnson, PK Sam, Michael McGrew, and Cedric James ready to step in. That is behind David Givens, Deion Branch, and Troy Brown.

Tim Dwight? He's a roleplayer. David Terrell? He's a bust. Bethel Johnson and PK Sam are both in the teams doghouse. Cedric James? Michael McGrew? Who are these 10 percenters and practice squaders? Troy Brown isnt even on your friggin team anymore.

Originally Posted by The Myth

TEs---We all know how good Dan Graham has become. He is a very good Receiver and an outstanding blocker. Add to that Ben Watson a 6'4" 255 TE with great hands, good blocking skills and 4.3/40 speed. Christian Fauria continues to be a solid player.

Yes, we all know how good Daniel Graham is. Good enough to not be worth a 1st round draft pick. He's a disappointment. You dont draft a blocking TE in the 1st round, and you cant call Graham a "very good" reciever by any stretch.

Ben Watson ran a 4.3 40? Not even remotely close. Please, go buy a clue.

Originally Posted by The Myth

RBs--- Corey Dillon 1600+ yards behind a weaked beaten up O-Line. Kevin Faulk is still a real solid threat to rip a big run from the outside or after catching a quick screen. Cedric Cobbs finaly healthy after fighting a hamstring injury that was misstreated at Arkansas. His power speed and style is much the same as Dillons.

Corey Dillon is also 30 years old, and you cant expect better line play then you got last season by any means? And why are you STILL talking up roleplayers and unproven, unheralded rookies like they mean anything?

Originally Posted by The Myth

DC--- Eric Mangini is the new DC and has been with Belichick for 10 years and the Patriots for as long as Belichick and Crennel have been. There is no drop off at all with this move.

Uhhh, no drop off? You have no clue whether or not there will be any dropoff in terms of coaching, as you dont seem to know anything, much less about the differences between Eric Mangina and Romeo Crennel. Get a grip.

Originally Posted by The Myth

D-Line--- Talk about depth Traylor was let go because he was not good enough to hang with these guys. Vince Wilfork became a beast quickly enough to claim the starting DT job as a rookie. The Starting DEs Seymoure and Warren have both been DTs for this team. As has the #1 backup DE Jarvis Green. Ethan Kelly a very powerfull DT who came from a very bad program (Baylor) needed time to develop the pro skills. BB feels he has done that now and is ready to be Wilforks main backup. Then there are DEs Marquise Hill, and Rodney Bailey solid DEs who will prove great help as backups.

Uhhh, actually, no. Keith Traylor was let go because he wasnt sure he wanted to play anymore. You are making half this stuff up, and believe me, it shows. Marquise Hill is solid? He's yet to even make the field.

Originally Posted by The Myth

LBs--- Yes the possible loss of Teddy Bruschi made many fans worry. But you have got to hand it to Belichick and Pioli they went out and made the LB spot stronger. Adding Ryan Claridge a very good Inside/outside LB in the Draft.
Monty Beisel ILB, and Chad Brown ILB/OLB, in FA plus the real nice development of Tully Banta-Cain OLB, Eric Alexander ILB, and ongoing work of Dan Klecko ILB. This along with the vets Ted Johnson, Willie McGinest, Mike Vrabel, and Rosevelt Colvin the LBs have never been deeper or more talented.

Dan Klecko? He's on the roster because of his name, believe you me. He's a stiff, and is never going to amount to anything besides special teams maybe. I'm real impressed you can name your linebackers depth and manage to put a bunch of glowing platitudes infront of their names, though.

I think the Myth is actually that you know anything other then licky licky Patriots.

[Dirtywater]

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

It was run by 4 different coaches? Uh, no. It might have had assistance from 4 different coaches, but for the health scare, it was Charlie Weis who was the main force behind the offense. Whether Belichick can run that along with the rest of the team remain to be seen. Whether Brady can in practice run the offense with a greater responsibility remains to be seen.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Wow, that's a whole lot of nonsense platitudes. Brian Anderson? Who in the hell is Brian Anderson? You are most definately throwing a bunch of crap up against the wall and hoping some of it sticks.

True, Anderson is not the cream of the crop, but Mankins isn't the dud that has been painted either. Overall, I like how our line is shaping up.

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Tim Dwight? He's a roleplayer. David Terrell? He's a bust. Bethel Johnson and PK Sam are both in the teams doghouse. Cedric James? Michael McGrew? Who are these 10 percenters and practice squaders? Troy Brown isnt even on your friggin team anymore.

I don't think Dwight will make the team. Terrell can only go up, otherwise he's gone. But it wouldn't be the first time a first rounder finds himself on a new team. He's clearly a wait and see though. Johnson, yes, has been in the doghouse, but you're off for PK Sam. He was one of the bright spots at OTA's & mini-camp. Changed his attitude and work ethic. So much so he was the one player everyone was talking about during the camps. Whether he can do that come season time is a wait and see.

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Yes, we all know how good Daniel Graham is. Good enough to not be worth a 1st round draft pick. He's a disappointment. You dont draft a blocking TE in the 1st round, and you cant call Graham a "very good" reciever by any stretch.

Ben Watson ran a 4.3 40? Not even remotely close. Please, go buy a clue.

Graham is not a disapointment. At all. Not sure where that is coming from, other than not living up to a 1st round status. As you'll soon see (assuming your a Fins fan) is that you'll draft players not accoring to all that league mumbo-jumbo. If Saban draft like Piloi & Belichick, it is about who they want, when they want. Your draft this season already looks just as solid.

As for Watson, he ran a 4.46. I agree, that is not remotely close to a 4.3, but not too shabby in it's own right. Watson is a monster. If he can translate that to the pros he's got a heck of a career in front of him.

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Corey Dillon is also 30 years old, and you cant expect better line play then you got last season by any means? And why are you STILL talking up roleplayers and unproven, unheralded rookies like they mean anything?

Hmm, not too sure what to make of this. You are saying our line will be worse? I don't expect any drop-off. Dillon still has a few more years in him. I'd say no more than 2.

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Uhhh, no drop off? You have no clue whether or not there will be any dropoff in terms of coaching, as you dont seem to know anything, much less about the differences between Eric Mangina and Romeo Crennel. Get a grip.

I agree. It is a wait and see situation. But he is not off for assuming Mangini will step right in. He's been ready for 2 years now, even turned down the Raiders job the year before last (Rob Ryan left and took it after) and turned down the Fins & Brown this season. OC is a different story. I am concerned about that. It is not unprecidented to expect a certain level of coaching from someone who hasn't held the job like Mangini (hello Saban.)

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Uhhh, actually, no. Keith Traylor was let go because he wasnt sure he wanted to play anymore. You are making half this stuff up, and believe me, it shows. Marquise Hill is solid? He's yet to even make the field.

Not completely accurate. Patriots were planning on cutting Traylor. He played decent for us, but Wilfork's accent and the arrival of Hill did factor into it. Traylor's attitude was also a part of it though, you are correct there.

In the tone of your article, you seem to make it sound that simply because a player has yet to play, he should be discounted like Hill. Hill should pan out to be a very good player. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL, and I realize that. People around here are pretty excited about Brown & Roth, should they assume they'll be duds too?

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

Dan Klecko? He's on the roster because of his name, believe you me. He's a stiff, and is never going to amount to anything besides special teams maybe. I'm real impressed you can name your linebackers depth and manage to put a bunch of glowing platitudes infront of their names, though.

I think the Myth is actually that you know anything other then licky licky Patriots.

Well, Klecko is no Pro Bowler, but he is certainly not on our team for his name. That kid gives so much on every play, he's earned his spot. I disagree with you on that.

Overall, I do think the original post was a fluff piece, but it wasn't as bad as you retorted either. As is the case with most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[5P1KES]

All I've got to say is that us Bills fans' optimism for this season is justified.

Yeah, we have a weak offensive line (when it comes to pass protection) with a rookie QB, but we've got a bigger, faster, stronger Willis McGahee running behind a nasty physical offensive line that's geared for pounding the ball down Ds throats (that's also how you wear out a teams D - run the ball, keep them on the field, eat the clock, and you keep their O off the field as well making it tougher for your opponent to score). Teams will have to respect the running game which WILL make Losman's job on passing plays much easier. Losman will also have no shortage of weapons downfield at his disposal - the speedy Evans and Parrish and the physical, ball attacking Moulds would make any QB happy. Our O line is actually in great shape on the right side, it's just the left tackle spot that's really suspect, but I have faith that McNally will get each olineman into the respective spot that will allow him to serve this team the best.

Our D was the best fantasy D in the league last year - enough said.

Our Special Teams can hurt you as well - just ask the Pats.

[Dolphan5876]

Not enough M&Ms in the bag. Moulds is gonna get mad cause he's not getting the ball.(hard to get him the ball when Losman is lying on his back from no protection) And aside from being one game away from turning him into a "Lawn Crane" Mcgahee is going to get pretty tired of getting tackled in the backfield from no blocking. I think you got issues you can't even address this year:evil:

[Justasportsfan]

Originally Posted by Dolphan5876

Not enough M&Ms in the bag. Moulds is gonna get mad cause he's not getting the ball.(hard to get him the ball when Losman is lying on his back from no protection) And aside from being one game away from turning him into a "Lawn Crane" Mcgahee is going to get pretty tired of getting tackled in the backfield from no blocking. I think you got issues you can't even address this year:evil:

:rofl3: :rofl3: :rofl3:

Who's your source? National Enquirer ? :rofl3: Moulds has never complained. As a matter of fact he trains the wr's during offseason.

If Willis is gonna get tired from getting tackled in the backfield, it won't be from the fins' joke of a run D.


You were thinking about Mckmike. He's the whiner.

[FinsOwnBrady]

How can you think that the patriots have gotten better in the off season they draftd a guy in the first round that no one has ever heard of. You pick up Monty Beisel any d-player from the chiefs sucks. David Terrel and Tim Dwight you have to be kidding me and those other guys that you mentioned you better just keep on the practice squad. So don't be trying to cover up your ****y ofseason with some scrubs. When they do something or actually play in a game then we will talk.

[FishFryer]

Originally Posted by FinsOwnBrady

How can you think that the patriots have gotten better in the off season they draftd a guy in the first round that no one has ever heard of. You pick up Monty Beisel any d-player from the chiefs sucks. David Terrel and Tim Dwight you have to be kidding me and those other guys that you mentioned you better just keep on the practice squad. So don't be trying to cover up your ****y ofseason with some scrubs. When they do something or actually play in a game then we will talk.

Okay, so maybe the Patriots are not better, at worst they are the same. But lets talk about the dolphins. They have a rookie headcoach straight out of college, a rookie RB and some pretty bad QB's. Add in the fact that most of the team is pissed off at Ricky Williams, like I think Jason Taylor, and that Williams will probably be back ... your dolphins have some big time trouble coming ahead. Have fun, as Buffalo will sweep you all again this season

[Dirtywater]

Originally Posted by FinsOwnBrady

How can you think that the patriots have gotten better in the off season they draftd a guy in the first round that no one has ever heard of. You pick up Monty Beisel any d-player from the chiefs sucks. David Terrel and Tim Dwight you have to be kidding me and those other guys that you mentioned you better just keep on the practice squad. So don't be trying to cover up your ****y ofseason with some scrubs. When they do something or actually play in a game then we will talk.

Not sure if you're refering to Myth's post or mine, but I'll address a couple of points here.

As for Mankins, the 'guy in the first round that no one has ever heard of', he looks to be a good OL. Hearing about a guy means nothing. Not many people heard of Jerry Rice before he started playing. That shouldn't be your measuring stick for talent. Heck, Brady was a 6th rounder.

As for Beisel, if you really believe that kind of generalization, you're not really here to talk football. Your stuff is better suited for the Depths Of The Sea threads where knowledge isn't needed for threads. Look at Vrabel as an example. He was toiling away in Pittsburgh, not getting much playing time. Our coach saw somwthing in him and turned his skills into something we could use. I assume that is where their going with Beisel. If he sucks, he sucks. We signed him as a FA. No harm done.

Though your assessment of our off-season is terrible, I'd put it at decent, not great. Then again, after you've won back to back Super Bowls, the team's needs isn't the same as a rebuilding squad.

And lastly, take it easy man, lol. It's only football talk.

[Dirtywater]

Originally Posted by FishFryer

Okay, so maybe the Patriots are not better, at worst they are the same. But lets talk about the dolphins. They have a rookie headcoach straight out of college, a rookie RB and some pretty bad QB's. Add in the fact that most of the team is pissed off at Ricky Williams, like I think Jason Taylor, and that Williams will probably be back ... your dolphins have some big time trouble coming ahead. Have fun, as Buffalo will sweep you all again this season

You do bring up a good point, and that is that some Fins fans here think it is ok to assume that only their picks and FA's will turn out to be great, but the minute anyone else does, their nuts. Go figure.

[The Myth]

Originally Posted by Disgustipate

An NFL franchise is like a shark... Keep moving or die. The Patriots, and the rest of the division havent moved much, if at all.



It was run by 4 different coaches? Uh, no. It might have had assistance from 4 different coaches, but for the health scare, it was Charlie Weis who was the main force behind the offense. Whether Belichick can run that along with the rest of the team remain to be seen. Whether Brady can in practice run the offense with a greater responsibility remains to be seen.



Wow, that's a whole lot of nonsense platitudes. Brian Anderson? Who in the hell is Brian Anderson? You are most definately throwing a bunch of crap up against the wall and hoping some of it sticks.



Tim Dwight? He's a roleplayer. David Terrell? He's a bust. Bethel Johnson and PK Sam are both in the teams doghouse. Cedric James? Michael McGrew? Who are these 10 percenters and practice squaders? Troy Brown isnt even on your friggin team anymore.



Yes, we all know how good Daniel Graham is. Good enough to not be worth a 1st round draft pick. He's a disappointment. You dont draft a blocking TE in the 1st round, and you cant call Graham a "very good" reciever by any stretch.

Ben Watson ran a 4.3 40? Not even remotely close. Please, go buy a clue.
Corey Dillon is also 30 years old, and you cant expect better line play then you got last season by any means? And why are you STILL talking up roleplayers and unproven, unheralded rookies like they mean anything?

Uhhh, no drop off? You have no clue whether or not there will be any dropoff in terms of coaching, as you dont seem to know anything, much less about the differences between Eric Mangina and Romeo Crennel. Get a grip.

Dan Klecko? He's on the roster because of his name, believe you me. He's a stiff, and is never going to amount to anything besides special teams maybe. I'm real impressed you can name your linebackers depth and manage to put a bunch of glowing platitudes infront of their names, though.

Well your reply proved one thing. You know nothing about other teams in the AFC East. The Patriots O has been run by the combined work of 4 coaches for the last few years That is and likly will always be the way BB sets it up to be. Graham is a very good reciever In spite of the fact he has been used to block out of need.
Career Highlights


Career GP/GS: 40/29 (6/3)

Graham tied for the team lead with a career-high seven touchdown receptions in 2004. His seven touchdown catches tied Christian Fauria’s seven scores in 2002 as the most by a Patriots tight end since Ben Coates recorded eight scores in 1997.

Graham got off to a hot start in 2004 with five touchdown grabs in the first four games.

Graham’s 38 catches for the Patriots in 2003 were the most by a Patriots tight end since Ben Coates led the team in receiving with 67 receptions in 1998.

Graham had the most productive outing of his career against Cleveland (10/26/03), when he grabbed seven passes for 110 yards and was named AFC Offensive Player of the Week for his efforts as the Patriots defeated the Browns, 9-3.

Graham tied for second on the team with four touchdown receptions in 2003.

Graham made nine catches for 20 yards or more in 2003, tying him with David Givens for the team lead in lengthy catches. Busted into the end zone for his first NFL touchdown after making a one-handed 18-yard grab vs. Kansas City (09/22/02). By the way TROY BROWN is on the team he was resigned
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2065723

You can say what ever you like about it but the facts are the Patriots have added to the team some good solid players. You seem to think some one is a bust if they don't make the Probowl. You are the only one here in need of a clue. So enjoy your dream that what I have said is not true. Try not to lose heart when I am proven correct.

[PassRush]

Good points by all. The main reason I believe the Patriots run is over history. All the great dynastys throughout football history have remained dynastys as long as things have stayed the same. The Patriots have had too many changes this offseason to keep that same chemistry they have had the last four years. Not to say that those losses have not been acounted for but they are changes nonetheless and their will be too many new players who need too much coaching without the two coaches who masterminded the system. I am not saying they wont be good, I am just saying another superbowl is nearly impossible.

[byroan]

Originally Posted by FinsOwnBrady

You pick up Monty Beisel any d-player from the chiefs sucks.

Let's think before we post. I guess Vonnie Holliday sucks now. You can't generalize one player with the whole defense.

[Justasportsfan]

Originally Posted by Dirtywater

You do bring up a good point, and that is that some Fins fans here think it is ok to assume that only their picks and FA's will turn out to be great, but the minute anyone else does, their nuts. Go figure.

If they drafted Clarrett, finfans would've called him the next Sanders.