Jets sign both 1st rounders

[Dors156]

i think the bills will finish last this year.the jets in my mind had probably the best draft.after the draft was over i was scared thinking about the future of the jets.the jets will be third but the future will be the jets trying to take it from the fins

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by miaD5499

say what you want but the scenarios were and are very different, first off how can you call you qb situation stable? you still have no idea who will be the #1 qb on your team so to me thats clearly unstable

We have multiple candidates. Again we have a former top QB who, if healthy, can be again. we have a quality backup who was ok in limited time starting and we have a QB of the future. We have all bases covered.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

and are you really willing to say you have confidence in chad pennington?

No i do not have confidence in him ONLy b?c of health. if he was close to halthy i'd feel great so we'll see.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

and bad mouth culpepper all you want its not really going to have any affect on how he tears apart the jets, and not to mention that daunte has taken his team further into the playoffs than chad so i dont know where again you were going with all the chad playoff numbers.

daunte has 2 playoff wins in 5 years as a starter, Chad has 2 playoff wins in his only 2 years that he was close to playing 16 games. yes he took them to the NFC Title game int he weak NFC then posted a 13 rating against a team that was far from great. In a MUCH tougher div and conf Chad has been mroe successful in his limited time.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

and not to mention at the time the nfc north was a pretty strong division with the packers and the vikings battling it out every year for the division title.

You don't watch alot of football, do you? The NFC North has been one of the, if not the, worst divisions in football for years.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

OK Junc... tell me why is Chad 3-14 (or 18%)when his defense has allowed 20 points or more??? His great record as you say" the jets win with Chad" is because he has had a good defense playing with him...and you can check out the team records with this link... or any link that gives out players stats...
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpag.../gamelogs/2002

What's the point? In alot of his games he got his team out in front and his D playing w/ a lead. It wasn't like we were winning 16-13 games, look at that '02 season he led us to 44, 31, 31, 30, 42, 41 in wins. We won 2 low scoring games and he put up over 20 in 3 of our losses. it's similar the next couple opf years. I'm not really sure what that proves? I know what you are trying to get at but if you examine the #s more closely it's really irrelevant. If we were winning 20-17 then I could buy that argument. The 2 games in '04(vs. Cincy, at SD) we were winning big and the opponents scored some late points to go over 20. Does Chad get a medal b/c the D gave up 20? Plenty of tims the D gave up close to 20 and again alot of times Chad led us to alot more than 20 so it wasn't close and therefore irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Amazing, you gauge Daunte when he loses game where his D has given up over 20 ppg, but Chad has a worst winning % than Daunte (16-38 or 30%) in this area...again follow the stats link for Daunte just like you would for Chad, and add this one for Daunte in 2000, he played all 16 games...

It doesn't matter, alot of times daunte's O struggles early and puits the D in a bad spot and daunte always does w/ his ill time TOs. A major reason why the Jets D didn't let up 20 alot was b/c Chad protected the ball and didn't kill them w/ TOs.

To me when i see that Minnesota has a BETTER record when daunte doesn't play and the Jets have a MUCH worse record when Chad doesn't play that tells me a little about their value to their teams.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

I agree with you that the Jets win with Chad, but not when Chad has to provide over 20 points to make up for the Defensive deficite to win games...

W/ Chad out in '03 the D held Wash to 16 pts and we lost, the D held Dal to 17 and we lost, in '04 they held the ravens to 17 in regulation and we lost, last year we held Bal to 13 and lost, held NE to 16 and lost, we also won a game where the D gave up 26. What does this mean? That we'd rather have Chad not playing? the record shows how much better we are w/ him.

Also, Minny's D hasn't been great but a big problem for the D has been DAUNTE CULPEPPER. His TO's have killed them.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

The 2 years that Chad played in the Post Season, all 4 games. In 02 PS...Jets 41-Indi 0, and Jets 10- Pit 30. In 04 PS... Jets 20-SD 17, and Jets 17- Pit 20... See the trend, both loses to a team that scored more than 20 points...Now in 02 the jets won the "tie-breaker to win their Division, and lost to the AFC competitor in the SB.

The trend is we beat the teams we were better than and lost to the teams that were better than us and we lost tough games on the road. In '02 Chad was still a 1st yr playing QB and we didnt' match up well w/ Oak but we were in the game in the 4th qtr. in '04 he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder and still if our Kicker makes ONE of 2 MAKEABLE kicks we win.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

With Daunte's 2 year Post season showing, all 4 games. In 00 PS...Minny 34-NO 16, and Minny 0-NYG 41. In 04 PS...Minny 31- GB 17, and Minny 14- Phili 27... See the same trend? Now mind you Minny won their Division in 02 and also lost to the team from the NFC that played in the SB in 2004.

The trend is Minny beat horrible teams and lost to ok teams(Philly was good the Giants were average).

Now we are getting into the diff of AFC vs. NFC. The '00 Giants were nowhere near the '02 Raiders and we were actually in the game against the raiders whereas minny was beaten up from the start and their O w/ 2 future HOF WRs and a great RB couldn't score a point and Daunte posted a 13 rating.

put the Jets in the NFC and we have at least 1 SB trip and multiple conf title games. If the jets played in the NFC North since '02 we'd have 3 div titles, in that span Daunte led Minny to ZERO.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

So to sum it up, both QBs:
Won 1 Division Championship...
Are 2-2 in the PS...
Lost one PS game to the team representing their Conference in the SB...
Have trouble beating opponets when their D gives up over 20 PPG...

They look alike but our div was MUCH tougher to win, our last place team was 8-8. 2-2 in the postseason but never did Daunte face a team the caliber of oak '02 or Pitt '04. The Jets are MUCH worse when Chad does not start, Minny is BETTER when Daunte does not start.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Point is, it took a "tie-breaker" to win the Division in 02 with a tremendous 9-7 record...

Chad led us back from 1-4, 2-5 in a div w/ the defending SB Champ, 3 teams w/ winning records and the 4th was at 8-8. A div that was thge best in football that year and by far better than any year of the NFC Cent/North that Daunte competed in.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Maybe this will give you a clearer picture... The Jets D have not given up more than 17 points in 19 of the 35 games (.54%) Chad has started...

Again that has alot to do w/ Chad b/c Chad doesn't turn it over at bad times and kill his D. These are nice #s but don't really show anything. Once again if most of our wins were 20-17 then i might agree but they aren't.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Daunte's D has not given up less than 17 points in only 22 of the 73 games (.30%) Daunte has started...

last year when Daunte started the D gave up 28 PPG yet when Brad started they gave up 17. Is that a coincidence? Nope, it has to do w/ the ill-time Daunte TOs that set his D up to fail.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

You are absolutely right, but come back and re post after Chad has had 5 full seasons of playing... it might take him another 10 years...

Maybe that's true, maybe he never starts full time again. It sucks b/c he was a top QB but that's life in the NFL.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

My math tells me in five years Daunte started 73 games and was 36-37, 1 game below .500, and his replacements was 3-4, also 1 game below .500...

2005 doesn't count?

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Of course I choose to neglect 05' because among other issues, DC was working with new OC, new WRs and a patch work of an OL, but of course you would choose only 05 in basing your case... but you know, you need more than 16 games to prove a point, I gave you 73 of them...

you can't ignore 2005, it was a new OC but not a new system. He lost the biggest reason he was successful, Moss, but that's life. Chad lost his best player after '02 then led us back to the div rd in '04.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Now, he has not been able to take his team under his arm consistantly and bail his Defense out.

of course he has, he has gievn his teams leads and not turned it over whoch always bails out a D. By the way in '02 our D was terrible at the start of the year but as Cahd began to play and cut down on mistakes and put points on the board early our D began to play alot better.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Of course "Chad wins games," specifically those that are tied with a great Defensive performance...

Keep ignoring the role the QB ahs on the points the D gives up but you are only fooling yourself.

[Mike13]

must disagree with your comment abot chad. if it were not for two missed field goals by doug brien in the playoffs two years ago, The jets are in the AFC title game against the Pats.

And you still would have lost, the Jets have a habit of choking against the Pats, no offense.

last year when Daunte started the D gave up 28 PPG yet when Brad started they gave up 17. Is that a coincidence? Nope, it has to do w/ the ill-time Daunte TOs that set his D up to fail.

Maybe it had to do with the fact that The Vikes didnt have a team around him, and Brad played against weak teams.

We have multiple candidates. Again we have a former top QB who, if healthy, can be again. we have a quality backup who was ok in limited time starting and we have a QB of the future. We have all bases covered.

Those are the key words, but keep in mind if he is healthy he may not be the same QB he once was, his shoulder is really f'ed up. As for Clemens he may or may not be your QB of the future we have to see what he can do which may take a few years.

[miaD5499]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

We have multiple candidates. Again we have a former top QB who, if healthy, can be again. we have a quality backup who was ok in limited time starting and we have a QB of the future. We have all bases covered.




No i do not have confidence in him ONLy b?c of health. if he was close to halthy i'd feel great so we'll see.



daunte has 2 playoff wins in 5 years as a starter, Chad has 2 playoff wins in his only 2 years that he was close to playing 16 games. yes he took them to the NFC Title game int he weak NFC then posted a 13 rating against a team that was far from great. In a MUCH tougher div and conf Chad has been mroe successful in his limited time.



You don't watch alot of football, do you? The NFC North has been one of the, if not the, worst divisions in football for years.



What's the point? In alot of his games he got his team out in front and his D playing w/ a lead. It wasn't like we were winning 16-13 games, look at that '02 season he led us to 44, 31, 31, 30, 42, 41 in wins. We won 2 low scoring games and he put up over 20 in 3 of our losses. it's similar the next couple opf years. I'm not really sure what that proves? I know what you are trying to get at but if you examine the #s more closely it's really irrelevant. If we were winning 20-17 then I could buy that argument. The 2 games in '04(vs. Cincy, at SD) we were winning big and the opponents scored some late points to go over 20. Does Chad get a medal b/c the D gave up 20? Plenty of tims the D gave up close to 20 and again alot of times Chad led us to alot more than 20 so it wasn't close and therefore irrelevant.



It doesn't matter, alot of times daunte's O struggles early and puits the D in a bad spot and daunte always does w/ his ill time TOs. A major reason why the Jets D didn't let up 20 alot was b/c Chad protected the ball and didn't kill them w/ TOs.

To me when i see that Minnesota has a BETTER record when daunte doesn't play and the Jets have a MUCH worse record when Chad doesn't play that tells me a little about their value to their teams.




W/ Chad out in '03 the D held Wash to 16 pts and we lost, the D held Dal to 17 and we lost, in '04 they held the ravens to 17 in regulation and we lost, last year we held Bal to 13 and lost, held NE to 16 and lost, we also won a game where the D gave up 26. What does this mean? That we'd rather have Chad not playing? the record shows how much better we are w/ him.

Also, Minny's D hasn't been great but a big problem for the D has been DAUNTE CULPEPPER. His TO's have killed them.




The trend is we beat the teams we were better than and lost to the teams that were better than us and we lost tough games on the road. In '02 Chad was still a 1st yr playing QB and we didnt' match up well w/ Oak but we were in the game in the 4th qtr. in '04 he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder and still if our Kicker makes ONE of 2 MAKEABLE kicks we win.



The trend is Minny beat horrible teams and lost to ok teams(Philly was good the Giants were average).

Now we are getting into the diff of AFC vs. NFC. The '00 Giants were nowhere near the '02 Raiders and we were actually in the game against the raiders whereas minny was beaten up from the start and their O w/ 2 future HOF WRs and a great RB couldn't score a point and Daunte posted a 13 rating.

put the Jets in the NFC and we have at least 1 SB trip and multiple conf title games. If the jets played in the NFC North since '02 we'd have 3 div titles, in that span Daunte led Minny to ZERO.



They look alike but our div was MUCH tougher to win, our last place team was 8-8. 2-2 in the postseason but never did Daunte face a team the caliber of oak '02 or Pitt '04. The Jets are MUCH worse when Chad does not start, Minny is BETTER when Daunte does not start.



Chad led us back from 1-4, 2-5 in a div w/ the defending SB Champ, 3 teams w/ winning records and the 4th was at 8-8. A div that was thge best in football that year and by far better than any year of the NFC Cent/North that Daunte competed in.



Again that has alot to do w/ Chad b/c Chad doesn't turn it over at bad times and kill his D. These are nice #s but don't really show anything. Once again if most of our wins were 20-17 then i might agree but they aren't.




last year when Daunte started the D gave up 28 PPG yet when Brad started they gave up 17. Is that a coincidence? Nope, it has to do w/ the ill-time Daunte TOs that set his D up to fail.



Maybe that's true, maybe he never starts full time again. It sucks b/c he was a top QB but that's life in the NFL.



2005 doesn't count?



you can't ignore 2005, it was a new OC but not a new system. He lost the biggest reason he was successful, Moss, but that's life. Chad lost his best player after '02 then led us back to the div rd in '04.



of course he has, he has gievn his teams leads and not turned it over whoch always bails out a D. By the way in '02 our D was terrible at the start of the year but as Cahd began to play and cut down on mistakes and put points on the board early our D began to play alot better.



Keep ignoring the role the QB ahs on the points the D gives up but you are only fooling yourself.

wow ur pretty stupid, first off the nfc north does suck now but a few years back when daunte was still on the vikings the division would always be between the packers and the vikings, i guess your the one who really hasnt paid much attention......if you really are banking on the jets season to be determined by a bunch of ifs and maybes then good luck but buddy face reality the jets are going nowhere in a hurry, have fun watching your mess...and another thing how are you still going about that their is no qb problem its a complete merry go round, you can have 3 different canidates starting opening day at qb and not because they are good but because there just isnt anyone better or one that clearly sticks out trust me im a dolphins fan ive endured plently of qb situations and yours is clearly a mess, and once again there is no such thing as a healthy chad so just get over that idea, the guys done and he doesnt even have a sorounding cast around him that would be able to lift him up even if he was healthy, curtis martin is wayy over his prime and none of your wrs are any real threat


Edit- just a fun fact but in the latest SI fantasy football edition on the qb rankings the jets dont even have one qb on the list while some other teams have 2, haha pretty sad

Edit #2- not to mention that the year the jets lost to the steelers in the playoffs they had a completely different team that they will put on the field this year, and not to mention a much better one...curtis martin was playing his best football (led the league in rushing that year), the deffense was ranked top 10, and you had a different coach...much has changed

[Disnardo]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Also, Minny's D hasn't been great but a big problem for the D has been DAUNTE CULPEPPER. His TO's have killed them.

I totally agree with you here.... Daunte has never had a D that can make up fore his mistakes, unlike other teams, which I proven you in prior posts... Hell even when he does not make them his D still struggles...

Again that has alot to do w/ Chad b/c Chad doesn't turn it over at bad times and kill his D. These are nice #s but don't really show anything. Once again if most of our wins were 20-17 then i might agree but they aren't.

.

Then how about adding these numbers to those other...

Those games won with Chad a a stater (02-04), with the D giving less than 17 PPG, and gathering a total of 42 TOS (INTS, FUM); 16 (38%) of them in the 1st half.

You still think that the Jets D had nothing to do with the win??? If you still believe this you are not being rational but biased...

Chad seemed to have hurt his team in winning this PS game against Pit, placing the ball inside the NY 25...
2-6-NYJ32(4:27) C.Pennington pass intended for S.Moss INTERCEPTED by T.Polamalu at NYJ 39. T.Polamalu to NYJ 25 for 14 yards (S.Moss, C.Pennington). Pressure on Pennington by #50 FootePittsburgh Steelers at 04:161-10-NYJ25(4:16) J.Bettis up the middle to NYJ 21 for 4 yards (J.Vilma).2-6-NYJ21(3:33) B.Roethlisberger pass to H.Ward to NYJ 12 for 9 yards (J.Vilma).1-10-NYJ12(2:51) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete to P.Burress. Coverage by #29 Abraham; fade pass thrown in end zone2-10-NYJ12(2:48) J.Bettis right end to NYJ 3 for 9 yards (E.Barton; R.Tongue).3-1-NYJ3(2:01) #78 Starks is an eligible receiver J.Bettis up the middle for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

last year when Daunte started the D gave up 28 PPG yet when Brad started they gave up 17. Is that a coincidence? Nope, it has to do w/ the ill-time Daunte TOs that set his D up to fail.

We already discused this area before, I showed you where the media and analyst proved this to be more of the team D gelling together than Brad being the catalyst. Even the players admited it...Till the last game of the season, Tice was still fumbling with the OL to improve it...

2005 doesn't count?

No I did not count it, as stated in my prior post, it would not help Chad as well as Daunte...

Keep ignoring the role the QB ahs on the points the D gives up but you are only fooling yourself

We are not ignoring the QB, after 6 years we have another good one under the helm, wait and see... and we will be discussing this at the end of the 2006 season...

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by miaD5499

wow ur pretty stupid, first off the nfc north does suck now but a few years back when daunte was still on the vikings the division would always be between the packers and the vikings

Before you call someone stupid you might want to check yuor facts. The NFC north has been a complete joke. Not 1 team has advanced past the div rd, the div only has 2 playoff wins in that time(1 was a head to head b/c the NFC was so pathetic in '04 they let in 2 8-8 teams). From '02-'04 the NFC North was 114-142 while the AFC east was 138-118.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

i guess your the one who really hasnt paid much attention......if you really are banking on the jets season to be determined by a bunch of ifs and maybes then good luck but buddy face reality the jets are going nowhere in a hurry, have fun watching your mess..

I'm not banking on anything, I am expecting 6-7 wins but I guess you missed the point about the NFL today being so unpredictable as teams can go from 4-12 to playof teams the next year and vice versa.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

Edit- just a fun fact but in the latest SI fantasy football edition on the qb rankings the jets dont even have one qb on the list while some other teams have 2, haha pretty sad

last time I checked the Jets weren't playing fantasy football. This is why you guys think daunte is great b/c he puts up big fantasy #s but the game is nto about fantasy #s it's about winning and daunte is not a winner.

Originally Posted by miaD5499

Edit #2- not to mention that the year the jets lost to the steelers in the playoffs they had a completely different team that they will put on the field this year, and not to mention a much better one...curtis martin was playing his best football (led the league in rushing that year), the deffense was ranked top 10, and you had a different coach...much has changed

of course we were better, I didn't say we'd be better than that team. that team was very close to doing something special. I don't know what your point is?

Originally Posted by Disnardo

I totally agree with you here.... Daunte has never had a D that can make up fore his mistakes, unlike other teams, which I proven you in prior posts... Hell even when he does not make them his D still struggles...

Isn't it interesting though that the D gave up 28 PPg when Daunte started and just 17 when Brad started?

Originally Posted by Disnardo

You still think that the Jets D had nothing to do with the win??? If you still believe this you are not being rational but biased...

When did I ever say the D had nothing to do w/ us winning? of course they had something to do w/ it but the D. in '02 it was more Chad and the O, the D got the benefit of playing w/ a lead in most games and they played well w/ a lead. in '04 the D carried us after Chad got hurt.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

Chad seemed to have hurt his team in winning this PS game against Pit, placing the ball inside the NY 25...

He did, he was playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder and our O did very little that day but he did get us in position to win the game and our K missed 2 makeable FGs.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

We already discused this area before, I showed you where the media and analyst proved this to be more of the team D gelling together than Brad being the catalyst. Even the players admited it...Till the last game of the season, Tice was still fumbling with the OL to improve it...

So in all of daunte's years the D stinks and all of a sudden they get it as soon as he goes down? Come on, just look at the TO's from Daunte and the points they led to. i'll copy and paste the info from the other thread:

Game 1 D gives up 24 but 7 were the result of Daunte TO so D gave up 17Game 2 D gives up 37 but 17 pts came off Daunte TOs so D gave up 20
Game 4 D gives up 30 but 3 are result of Daunte fumble so D gave up 27.
Game 5 D gives up 28 pts but 7 are a result of Daunte TO so D gave up 21.
Game 6 D gives up 20 but 7 are a rsult of daunte fumble so D gave up 13.

Actual points allowed per game: 27.8
Taking away TOs from daunte leading to points: 19.6
It's interesting that w/ Brad as QB the D gave up 17 pts a game very close to the # it would have been w/o Daunte TOs in the 5 games above.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

No I did not count it, as stated in my prior post, it would not help Chad as well as Daunte...

It does count.

Originally Posted by Disnardo

We are not ignoring the QB, after 6 years we have another good one under the helm, wait and see... and we will be discussing this at the end of the 2006 season...

We'll be discussing this for years unless of course the impossible happens and Daunte leads you to a SB this year then it will shut me up.

[BwanaZulia]

Originally Posted by miaD5499

yea many jet and bills fans refer to last years excitement and like to aware us finfans but in reality the situations are soo different.....chad pennington IMO was never good enough to get the jets anywhere and still isnt and another year obviously didnt help curtis martin, injuries plagued the team but many of the players that were hurt are no longer on the team and neither is their best Dline man john abraham...they jets had a decent draft and helped build their oline but they really didnt get any standouts at key positions, the whole qb situation is a mess and eric mangini is a bit of a risk taker IMO, hes too young and doesnt seem to have the ability to control the whole team like that certain spunk IMO...........as a dolphins fan i feel confident that things will go right this season and im not worried about what happened to the bills or jets last year

You kidding? The Dolphins went from 4-12 with no hope to 9-7 in one season with a brand new coach (no NFL experience) and no QB. Chad, with a broken wing is better than Scrub1 and Scrub2 playing for the Phins last year.

As for standouts? I think Vilma, Dyson, Miller and Graham are all standouts.

BZ

[Disnardo]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

We'll be discussing this for years unless of course the impossible happens and Daunte leads you to a SB this year then it will shut me up.

Naw, I would never let that happen... I mean what is the point of not chatting with an opponents fan? Good luck this year, except when you play us...

[Disnardo]

Originally Posted by BwanaZulia

Chad, with a broken wing is better than Scrub1 and Scrub2 playing for the Phins last year.

As for standouts? I think Vilma, Dyson, Miller and Graham are all standouts.

BZ

I tend to agree with BZ here...

[The New Guy]

Originally Posted by nyjunc

But Daunte Culpepper is? In a MUCH tougher div in only 2 near full seasons Chad has led us to a div title(the only QB besids Brady to lead his team to an AFC East title since '01) and 2 trips to the div rd of the playoffs. daunte has made the playoffs twice in5 full years in a pathetic div and conf. Oh and Minny was 4 game sunder .500 when Daunte started and 4 games OVER .500 when he did not while the Jets were 5 games over w/ Chad and 11 games undre w/o him.

Those numbers are really skewed by the opposite seasons the Jets and Vikings had in 05. If you look at the numbers when each team had comparable backups from 01 to 04, both teams are 2 games under .500 without the starters.

In 2001 Culpepper started 11 games and was 4-7. Todd Bouman started three games and was 1-2, and Spergon Wynn started 3 games and was 0-3 for a combined 1-5 performance. Not so good without Culpepper.

In 2003 Culpepper started 14 games and was 7-7. Four of those 7 wins came against teams that were 10-6 or better.
(Packers 10-6, Seattle 10-6, Broncos 10-6, Chiefs 13-3)



Gus Frerotte started 2 games that season and was 2-0, but both of those wins came against teams that had losing records. (San Fransisco 7-9, and Atlanta 5-11)


In 2002 Chad played 13 games and was 8-5. Vinny played 3 games and was 1-2.

In 2003 Chad was 4-7, and Vinny was 2-4.

In 2004 Chad was 8-5, and Carter was 2-1.

So, from 2000 to 2004 the Vikings went 3-5 without Culpepper.
From 2002 to 2004 the Jets went 5-7 without Pennington.

A lot of things went wrong in 05 for both teams, but the situations were completely different. The Vikings were 7-3 in 05 without Culpepper, but they had Brad Johnson (A 2 time pro bowler, and former Super Bowl winner) as the backup, and still only beat 1 team that was over .500.

The Jets went 3-10 without Pennington, but they had Brooks Bollinger (A guy who had never started an NFL game, and had only attempted 9 passes in his career) as the backup. The Jets also had a tougher schedule than the Vikings did. (5 games with teams that were above .500 after Bollinger took over.)

Chad started out 1-2, and looked pretty bad in the 3 games he played in before he got injured. I really do not believe that the Jets would have had a much better season than they did even if Pennington had not gotten injured in week 3. I do believe that the Jets are worse off without Pennington, but not as much as it showed last season. I also believe that the Vikings are much better off with Culpepper at QB. Do you really think that the Vikings were better with Bouman, Wynn, Frerotte, or Johnson?

It will be fun to see who has a better record leading their teams in 06. I am guessing it will be Culpepper.

[nyjunc]

Originally Posted by Disnardo