Who will finish last in the AFC East - Page 5

John from Hemet · 07-31-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyjunc

He was playing, he just wasn't starting and when he played he played alot better than Pozluzny.

Mitchell had it easy w/ the pass rushers the giants had and even w/ that huge advantage he had 1 sack in 2 games. The guys up front were applying the constant pressure that helped the Giants win. The giants would have won w/ or w/o Mitchell which is why he wasn't a priority to re-sign.

Everything you are saying here is your opinion and is not based upon fact.

You are saying that a BACKUP MLB in Harris (at the time) was outplaying the STARTING MLB at the time in Poz. that makes no sense whatsoever. Poz was racking up huge tackle numbers and was thrown right into the fire rather then brought along more slowly like a rookie normally would UNLESS THEY WERE A STUD LIKE POZ.

As for Mitchell.....what you say is correct in that a team with great pass rushing DL would be able to take a loss of a Kavika Mitchell because they are so strong in that area....this should not discount the fact that Mitchell played very well last year at the OLB spot. He fills a big need on the bills with his physical play and size and the guys who are playing in front of him are not exactly chopped liver in Pro Bowlers Marcus Stroud and Aaron Schrobel.

nyjunc · 07-31-2008, 07:02 AM

Huge tackle #s? You sound like the dolphin fans w/ Zach Thomas. there's more to the game than tackles and the tackle stat can be very subjective. Where are these tackles taking place? at or neat the LOS or 5-10 yds downfield?

By the way he had 26 tackles in 3 games, that's not exactly a tackling machine. He had no sacks, no PDs, no INTs, no game changing plays. Harris was much better than him.

Not only "studs" get thrown into the fire, we had a former pro bowler occupying his position, the Captain of our Defense. We didn't have room at that time to start him unlike you guys who needed a MLB.

Mitchell is nothing more than an average player, it's why he's on his 3rd team in 3 years. Good players don't get away from teams for 3 straight years.

John from Hemet · 07-31-2008, 02:08 PM

So an average of over 8 tackles (behind a really REALLY crappy DL) is not good numbers?

They did not Blitz Poz much because that was not in our defensive scheme. AND lets not forget that he was playing as a rookie STARTNG right off the bat...he was brought along more slowly AND had the benefit of playing the whole year for a reference.

You still did not address my question of if Harris was such a immediate stud why was Vilma not moved over to get your best linebackers on the field? Vilma can play OLB and the jets defense wasn't a great defense last year.

I guess this is pretty much it....you wont come off your stance and neither will I.....take it back up again when we see what our teams look like this season?

nyjunc · 07-31-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John from Hemet

So an average of over 8 tackles (behind a really REALLY crappy DL) is not good numbers?

They did not Blitz Poz much because that was not in our defensive scheme. AND lets not forget that he was playing as a rookie STARTNG right off the bat...he was brought along more slowly AND had the benefit of playing the whole year for a reference.

You still did not address my question of if Harris was such a immediate stud why was Vilma not moved over to get your best linebackers on the field? Vilma can play OLB and the jets defense wasn't a great defense last year.

I guess this is pretty much it....you wont come off your stance and neither will I.....take it back up again when we see what our teams look like this season?

When you are drafted to an area of stregnth sometimes you don't start riht away. Buf lost London Fletcher, they had an opening at MLB and that's why they drafted Poz. Harris was drfated to eventually take over for Vilma as they knew Vilma wasn't a good fit in the scheme, Harris waas seeing PT just not enough. When Vilma was lost for the year he slid over to an every down LB and took off.

Prorate those tackles and he has similar tackle #s to Harris w/o the sacks or PDs and the biggest differnce btw the 2:

Buf's D w/ Poz starting: 26 PPG
Buf's D w/o Poz starting: 21 PPG

NYJ D w/ Harris starting: 18 PPG
NYJ D w/o harris starting: 27 PPG

Vertical Limit · 07-31-2008, 02:50 PM

Why are the Patriots even on this poll? Did Brady die?

John from Hemet · 08-01-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyjunc

When you are drafted to an area of stregnth sometimes you don't start riht away. Buf lost London Fletcher, they had an opening at MLB and that's why they drafted Poz. Harris was drfated to eventually take over for Vilma as they knew Vilma wasn't a good fit in the scheme, Harris waas seeing PT just not enough. When Vilma was lost for the year he slid over to an every down LB and took off.

Prorate those tackles and he has similar tackle #s to Harris w/o the sacks or PDs and the biggest differnce btw the 2:

Buf's D w/ Poz starting: 26 PPG
Buf's D w/o Poz starting: 21 PPG

NYJ D w/ Harris starting: 18 PPG
NYJ D w/o harris starting: 27 PPG

These numbers are interesting but they dont tell the whole story. You have to factor in opponents and and the DL that was starting in front of the two (along with other factors)

I think it best to just see how this year plays out. Poz will have Marcus Stroud and Jon McCargo starting in front of him to keep him clean to make tackles as opposed to OL getting through and putting a hat on LB's every play last year......when you cant get offenses in 3rd and longs to be able to send blitzes for fear of giving up big plays you are just not going to get the opportunity to MAKE big plays.

You guys had some quality on your DL last year....that has to be factored into the success of a LB.

nyjunc · 08-02-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John from Hemet

These numbers are interesting but they dont tell the whole story. You have to factor in opponents and and the DL that was starting in front of the two (along with other factors)

I think it best to just see how this year plays out. Poz will have Marcus Stroud and Jon McCargo starting in front of him to keep him clean to make tackles as opposed to OL getting through and putting a hat on LB's every play last year......when you cant get offenses in 3rd and longs to be able to send blitzes for fear of giving up big plays you are just not going to get the opportunity to MAKE big plays.

You guys had some quality on your DL last year....that has to be factored into the success of a LB.

Robertson was not a nose tackle, he was good in the 4-3. Harris didn't have alot of help up front and the D instantly got better when he became the starter. Shaun Ellis wasn't great last year either and the other DE was kenyon Coleman so let's not act like he had great help in front of him.

The only bad game the D had w/ Harris starting was Dallas and the D wasn't as bad as the 34 points they allowed b/c the O was horrendous and gave up an INT return for a TD and while the D tried to keep the team in the game the O couldn't do anything all game long.

We played some of the same teams w/ and w/o harris:

W/o Harris starting:

NE: lost 38-14, D allowed 31 points
Mia: won 31-28
at Buf: lost 17-14

W/ Harris starting:

at NE: lost 20-10, D allowed 13 points
at Mia: won 40-13
Buf: Lost 13-3

You can seethe improvement, Vilam's last game starting the Jets lost 38-31 w/ the D giving up 31 points, the following week w/ Harris starting the Jets D allowed 13 points. He's a difference maker and we finally have ther pieces for the 3-4, our D should be much improved this year and it starts w/ #52.

I think both players are going to be really good but Poz is in catch up mode going into the season. he could pass him but Harris has proven himself whiole Poz hasn't yet b/c of the injury.

John from Hemet · 08-02-2008, 04:13 PM

Just FYI....those losses at Buffalo in close games should not be testimate to your defense as we were last in the league on offense or something to that affect.

Our offense was horrible last year. And while Robertson my not be a pro bowler in tha scheme he was better then anything we had.

Roman529 · 08-03-2008, 05:05 AM

I can't believe all you folks who picked our Phins to finish last. It should be:

1. Patriots 13-3
2. Bills 9-7
3. Phins 7-9
4. Jets 5-11

nyjunc · 08-03-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John from Hemet

Just FYI....those losses at Buffalo in close games should not be testimate to your defense as we were last in the league on offense or something to that affect.

Our offense was horrible last year. And while Robertson my not be a pro bowler in tha scheme he was better then anything we had.

The Buf games were irrelavnt since you didn't score much in either game and it was only a 4 point difference. The Pats games the D gave up 18 less and the Dolphins game the D gave up 25 less points(I forgot Miami scored their only TD defensively).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman529

I can't believe all you folks who picked our Phins to finish last. It should be:

1. Patriots 13-3
2. Bills 9-7
3. Phins 7-9
4. Jets 5-11

5 wins.

Vertical Limit · 09-08-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertical Limit

Why are the Patriots even on this poll? Did Brady die?

Quoting myself. Damn, I hope he recovers well. I never wish injury on any player, even if it's a division rival. Injuries like the one Brady has can effect him for the rest of his real life outside of football.

djfresh47 · 09-08-2008, 04:24 PM

I don't believe the Pats are going to turn into a 4-12 team without Brady. Though I think for the first time in a long time the division title isn't just automatically going to them. Around the AFC just after 1 week it looks like their will be opportunities for new teams to make a push for the playoffs. For all the talk of parity it seems like the same teams are in the playoffs every year. Though the thing that i'm not looking forward to is hearing about Favre and the Jets.

I'm not ruling out the Pats cause they've still got alot of talent. Though I think they're going to have to go back to the forumla they used in Brady's first year with stellar defense.

JetsFanNY · 09-08-2008, 06:59 PM

god look at all the predictions from before the jet game what were you thinking picking the jets last.

feelthepain · 09-08-2008, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyjunc

You guys have sucked since 2004, we went 9-3 against you from '98-'03 when you had good teams.

We went 9-7 in 05, I don't think the qualifies as a team that "sucks".

Brassmonki14120 · 09-10-2008, 10:49 AM

I have to say that I'm pretty confused. In trying to reply to your posts and carry on with the discussion I feel that it is important to clarify just how you come up with what makes a team good or bad. As much as you tell fans there team is bad I feel this may be for the greater good of all.

I'm not trying to cause trouble, I just see His point.

In order to interact and communicate with you in the way that message boards are intended and to help ensure that there is at least one less arguement would you please enlighten us?

View Poll Results: Who will finish last in the AFC East
Dolphins	65	57.02%
Patriots	9	7.89%
Jets	27	23.68%
Bills	13	11.40%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

07-31-2008, 07:02 AM	#62
nyjunc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,676 Credits: 1,839 Thanks: 185 Thanked 274 Times in 158 Posts	Huge tackle #s? You sound like the dolphin fans w/ Zach Thomas. there's more to the game than tackles and the tackle stat can be very subjective. Where are these tackles taking place? at or neat the LOS or 5-10 yds downfield? By the way he had 26 tackles in 3 games, that's not exactly a tackling machine. He had no sacks, no PDs, no INTs, no game changing plays. Harris was much better than him. Not only "studs" get thrown into the fire, we had a former pro bowler occupying his position, the Captain of our Defense. We didn't have room at that time to start him unlike you guys who needed a MLB. Mitchell is nothing more than an average player, it's why he's on his 3rd team in 3 years. Good players don't get away from teams for 3 straight years. __________________

07-31-2008, 02:50 PM	#65
Vertical Limit Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Miami, FL Age: 21 Posts: 5,711 Credits: 2,402 Thanks: 153 Thanked 152 Times in 104 Posts	Why are the Patriots even on this poll? Did Brady die? __________________ * Ronnie Brown's lack of production NOT HIS FAULT.

08-03-2008, 05:05 AM	#69
Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 24,469 Credits: 243 Thanks: 57 Thanked 240 Times in 179 Posts	I can't believe all you folks who picked our Phins to finish last. It should be: 1. Patriots 13-3 2. Bills 9-7 3. Phins 7-9 4. Jets 5-11 __________________ WELCOME TO MIAMI JAKE

07-31-2008, 02:08 PM	#63
John from Hemet Starter Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 222 Credits: 1,054 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	So an average of over 8 tackles (behind a really REALLY crappy DL) is not good numbers? They did not Blitz Poz much because that was not in our defensive scheme. AND lets not forget that he was playing as a rookie STARTNG right off the bat...he was brought along more slowly AND had the benefit of playing the whole year for a reference. You still did not address my question of if Harris was such a immediate stud why was Vilma not moved over to get your best linebackers on the field? Vilma can play OLB and the jets defense wasn't a great defense last year. I guess this is pretty much it....you wont come off your stance and neither will I.....take it back up again when we see what our teams look like this season?

08-02-2008, 04:13 PM	#68
John from Hemet Starter Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 222 Credits: 1,054 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	Just FYI....those losses at Buffalo in close games should not be testimate to your defense as we were last in the league on offense or something to that affect. Our offense was horrible last year. And while Robertson my not be a pro bowler in tha scheme he was better then anything we had.

09-08-2008, 04:24 PM	#72
djfresh47 Non-hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: 716 Posts: 4,660 Credits: 1,390 Thanks: 1 Thanked 57 Times in 42 Posts	I don't believe the Pats are going to turn into a 4-12 team without Brady. Though I think for the first time in a long time the division title isn't just automatically going to them. Around the AFC just after 1 week it looks like their will be opportunities for new teams to make a push for the playoffs. For all the talk of parity it seems like the same teams are in the playoffs every year. Though the thing that i'm not looking forward to is hearing about Favre and the Jets. I'm not ruling out the Pats cause they've still got alot of talent. Though I think they're going to have to go back to the forumla they used in Brady's first year with stellar defense.

09-08-2008, 06:59 PM	#73
JetsFanNY Rookie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 58 Credits: 1,158 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	god look at all the predictions from before the jet game what were you thinking picking the jets last.

09-10-2008, 10:49 AM	#75
Brassmonki14120 Ο πόνος αισθήματος καταπίνει το πέος Join Date: Aug 2006 Age: 32 Posts: 753 Credits: 138 Thanks: 234 Thanked 90 Times in 74 Posts	I have to say that I'm pretty confused. In trying to reply to your posts and carry on with the discussion I feel that it is important to clarify just how you come up with what makes a team good or bad. As much as you tell fans there team is bad I feel this may be for the greater good of all. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I just see His point. In order to interact and communicate with you in the way that message boards are intended and to help ensure that there is at least one less arguement would you please enlighten us?