Many options may be coming

[Rich22]

Originally Posted by Coral Reefer

But they're both white DE's and are basically the same height and weight dangit, what more do you need to prove they're the same?

All good stuff you posted to shed some light on this silly comparison I've seen way too much of.

Lets not even get into how different they are as prospects that can be seen on film watching their actual "football talent".

Moderator's Warning:

stop getting personal, follow tos

- show me how many DE's in a 3-4 line up at 270lbs?? How many?? I compare hijm to Roth not because they are the same talent but because they are both out of position in a 3-4. Roth has a very high motor and is VERY strong. What good does it do when he gets manhandled by 330+lb OT's. You want to play DE in a 3-4 you better be big at 300lbs and quick to either bull rush or blow by a guy. Long is closer to a LB size and since he is not a superstar there how can you justify the #1 overall pick on a guy who you have to teach a new position and you have no track record of dominant performance. Makes no sense - sort of like your argument. Go buy your Long jersey and come back when he is picked outside the top 5.

[Spartan 117]

Nothing like trying to prove your pick by bashing everyone else with obnoxious overtones. Way to win people over.

I think Gholston will be a great player. I still pick Chris Long every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

See what I did there?

[FIUDolphinsFan]

good arguements all around. nice to see. but guys guys, i dont understand how anyone would even THINK about drafting gholston at #1 overall. Long is the clear cut better player. I read somewhere someone said that gholston has more upside? i fail to see how that is the case. leading up to the combine i was not sold on chris long. I didnt see how people were considering him a #1 overall talent. and although the combine is over-rated, i think this just bolsters his already high expectations.

although he is a bit undersized for a DE in a 3-4, i dont believe that is enough to justify passing on him simply because of that. at 6-4 275 I believe he can still be a very effective as a 3-4 DE. and if he just bulked up an extra 10 lbs, i dont think that would even be an issue. He is great all-around, the guy has the work ethic, the personality to be a leader, and for petes sake he has the genetic make up of a great football player. his father is a HOFer and its clear that he has all it takes to become great. and even if he just came close to being as good as his father i think we can all agree we would take that. I believe the guy has all of the entangibles to become a perrenial pro-bowler and one of the best DE's of his era.

as for gholston i think he is going to be great as well, but long is obviously more talented, a better fit for the dolphins immediately, has more charisma and more upside than gholston. with that said, i would not mind taking gholston but only if it involved a trade down where we could get him somewhere in the 6-10 range.

[Roman529]

Originally Posted by Tureo

Long is not slow by no means. There are few questions about both Long and Gholston. They both performed well today. I would rather Jake Long because we need immediate help on the OL with the departures we have had.

I second this.

[jdang307]

Originally Posted by Rich22

You conveniently left out 2 big one's

Gholston 37 reps on bench - tied big Jake Long!

vertical jump - which is one measurement of explosion

Gholston - 35.5
Long - 34

And the 40 Gholston was 4.67 to Long's 4.75 although when I was watching yesterday I thought it showed 4.55 for Gholston.

He left those out because you were arguing Long wasn't quick enough to drop back. Those two you left have nothing to do with quickness. That was a quick flip flop (esp because you just said 40 yard time has nothing to do with quickness)

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by fishypete

At his weight...C. Long is 20 lbs too heavy to play OLB...he could play a ILB in a 3-4...but do you pay 30-35 mil for a OLB/ILB? I don't think so.

20 lbs too heavy? Perhaps you should the following players they are too heavy to play OLB in the 3-4.
Greg Ellis, Dallas 6'6" 265
Junior Glymph, Dallas 6'6" 268 (Recently signed by the Dolphins)
Shawne Merriman, San Diego 6'4" 272
Calvin Pace, Arizona 6'4" 270

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by fishypete

Just curious...you say he played in a Parcells 3-4...can you tell me what player on the Dallas roster would be Long?

Here's Dallas roster;

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamRoster?statsId=6

The only player that is big as a linebacker is Greg Ellis...he wasn't a Parcells player...he was already on the roster...plus he's larger than Long by 3 inches.

The DL is far bigger and heavier than Long...so Long playing at DE..is not an option...in a Parcells defense.

Parcells and Co did bring in Junior Glymph (6-6 268) when Bill was in Dallas and they signed him again last month to the Dolphins roster.

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by Rich22

You guys make me laugh ! Did you hear who they said was the D guy of the day today at the combine? Long was ...... NOT ..... that's right Gholston was! Long is NOT a LB - are you guys high as Merriman? He is 275lbs. He is NOT a LB! He may have played as a DE in a 3-4 in COLLEGE but we are talking the NFL folks! Do you realize there is a difference here?? You think the speed of the game is the same - you know zip about football. Long will get blown away if he tries and play OLB in the NFL. I could see him trying to cover an RB out of the backfield - which way did he go - which way did he go. He is best suited for DE in a 4-3. That is why I compared him to Roth. If he goes to a 3-4 D in the NFL then IMO he makes the same impact as Roth has - maybe just a bit more. He becomes a tweaner in a 3-4 - no real impact position. High motor, strong dude, out of position.

By the way - how many reps did Long do in the bench? Oh that is right - Mr. High Motor High Intensity Never Stop had a bad thumb from awhile back. Are you kidding me? He could have at least made himself useful and sat on the bar and given Gholsten a challenge. 37 reps - out did any other position player - WOW!!!!!!!

So you are saying that Shawne Merriman (272 lbs), Willie McGinest (270 lbs) and Mike Vrabel (261 lbs) are not OLBs in the 3-4 defense?

[fishypete]

Originally Posted by Geforce

20 lbs too heavy? Perhaps you should the following players they are too heavy to play OLB in the 3-4.
Greg Ellis, Dallas 6'6" 265
Junior Glymph, Dallas 6'6" 268 (Recently signed by the Dolphins)
Shawne Merriman, San Diego 6'4" 272
Calvin Pace, Arizona 6'4" 270

As I wrote...Ellis is 6'6" and wasn't a player that Parcells drafted...he was already on the team...Arizona runs a 3-4? I not sure about that...Merriman is a freak of nature...even thou there were rumors of him using steriods...he's slighly over 6'4" 273...and had a 41 inch vert leap....and even with that he wasn't the top pick in the draft....he was the 12th.

[fishypete]

Originally Posted by Geforce

Parcells and Co did bring in Junior Glymph (6-6 268) when Bill was in Dallas and they signed him again last month to the Dolphins roster.

Yes...but there's a big difference between a 6'3" 272 player and a 6'6" 268....The 6'6" player more than likely has the longer arm span....he can add weight....because his frame is larger....at 6'3" Long only has so much frame to add weight. And another difference...one alot more important...Glymph didn't cost 35 mil...to sign.

[Ghetti13]

If memory serves me, Merriman went later in the draft because of concern about work ethic and on field performance. In essence, while in college he was not as good a player on tape as he should have been.

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by Rich22

- show me how many DE's in a 3-4 line up at 270lbs?? How many?? I compare hijm to Roth not because they are the same talent but because they are both out of position in a 3-4. Roth has a very high motor and is VERY strong. What good does it do when he gets manhandled by 330+lb OT's. You want to play DE in a 3-4 you better be big at 300lbs and quick to either bull rush or blow by a guy. Long is closer to a LB size and since he is not a superstar there how can you justify the #1 overall pick on a guy who you have to teach a new position and you have no track record of dominant performance. Makes no sense - sort of like your argument. Go buy your Long jersey and come back when he is picked outside the top 5.

Since Gholston weighed in at 266, does that mean we should pass on him as well since he is close to 270 lbs and would be playing out of position if we drafted him and ran the 3-4 defense?

Long doesn't have a track record of dominant performances? Okay...you need to stop. I almost lost my breakfast on that one.

[Coral Reefer]

Originally Posted by Rich22

- show me how many DE's in a 3-4 line up at 270lbs?? How many?? I compare hijm to Roth not because they are the same talent but because they are both out of position in a 3-4. Roth has a very high motor and is VERY strong. What good does it do when he gets manhandled by 330+lb OT's. You want to play DE in a 3-4 you better be big at 300lbs and quick to either bull rush or blow by a guy. Long is closer to a LB size and since he is not a superstar there how can you justify the #1 overall pick on a guy who you have to teach a new position and you have no track record of dominant performance. Makes no sense - sort of like your argument. Go buy your Long jersey and come back when he is picked outside the top 5.

YOU keep backtracking trying desperately to retreat to some point where your initial posts will actually show some thought was put into them.

Sorry but backtrack all you want, it's not going to hide how idiotic those first posts were.

You compared Long to Roth simply because he shares a few traits with in heart, motor, height, weight and color.

You said he's clearly too slow to drop off the line and play the 3-4 OLB spot.
Well people gave you information to show thats flat out false with the numbers he produced.

Secondly and even more silly was that you said he was too slow to play DE and rush from the perimiter. He's in the leaders in every category that would determine quickness and leads Ghoulston in the ones that matter most for quickness needed during a play. The 3 cone and shuttle.

His size being too big for him to play as a stand up OLB spot in situations has already been flattened by posters in this very thread which you ignore.

It's been very well posted on here how Miami will use Long.
In different positions during different situations.
Why? Because he's already shown he can handle all of them while at Virginia.

Now your harping on his lift numbers which he didn't produce yet as an argument? Pathetic.

Obviously you think Ghoulston is a better prospect and that's fine.

Your problem is where you think you have to make Long out to be an overhypted bust waiting to happen to try and prove your point.

Clearly, the personnel departments and scouts will completely disagree with you here as I've yet to hear anyone rip Long as not worthy of being taken at the top of the draft.

Keep backtracking though to try and make those initial posts seem a little more sensible.

[Geforce]

Originally Posted by fishypete

Yes...but there's a big difference between a 6'3" 272 player and a 6'6" 268....The 6'6" player more than likely has the longer arm span....he can add weight....because his frame is larger....at 6'3" Long only has so much frame to add weight. And another difference...one alot more important...Glymph didn't cost 35 mil...to sign.

One's height has very little to do with one's frame and if they can or cannot gain weight. The taller player more than likely but not necessarily means longer arms as Joe Thomas proved last year Xavier Adibi proved this year.

Joe Thomas 6'6" with 33" arms
Xavier Adibi 6'0" with 35" arms.

[fishypete]

Originally Posted by Ghetti13

If memory serves me, Merriman went later in the draft because of concern about work ethic and on field performance. In essence, while in college he was not as good a player on tape as he should have been.

Merriman was the second rated DE coming out...some had him first. So I don't know where you came up with his work ethic and on the field performance from? D. Ware was right behind him..6'4" 250 ran a 4.65 38 1/2 vert...he was the 11th pick in the draft.