It's now time. (merged)

[Kamikaze]

I'm not here to debate, just make some brief remarks.

I remain steadfast in my opposition to this war. My avvy and title reflect this. Given America's track record in "installing democracy" I've no reason to feel we'll do the same here. However, I'm holding out hope that somehow, as few people as possible die, that we actually make Iraq a democratic nation, and that terrorism is greatly subdued. IMO there is a 99.9% chance that WON'T happen, but if it does, I promise to take back most of the nasty things I've said about Shrub. Right now, let's plan for the worst-case scenario and hope for the best-case scenario.

I will always support our young men and women serving (they're my peers after all) and I hope they all come home safe and sound. I also support the people of Iraq and their fighting men as well, they don't deserve to die either. I will never support Bush nor Hussein for once again proving the world is run by greedy old men, and using our young people to fight their battles.

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by iceblizzard69
That is a myth. This war won't help our economy, it will really raise gas prices, the only companies who benefit are the ones who provide to the military. The only war that really ever helped the economy was WW2.

Actually heres the facts. With regards to oil, only a very tiny portion of Iraqi oil is out in the market right now. A successful war will result in a dropping of the blockade, and allowing Iraq to place it's oil back into the market.

Economics 101: What happens when supply increases? Thats right, prices go down.

And The uncertainty over the war is the driving factor of many (note, many, not all) of the negative economic statistics that we have seen recently. (allthough an incompetant President has alot to do with it as well). With the coming and relative quick ending of the war, those fears and uncertainty will be eased, thus freeing up people to get back to buisiness as normal. (the other problem we will have to wait untill the next election to take care of.
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I support the war, but I don't think the short term effects on the economy will be good, in this case it may help the long term because of oil.

It depends on what your definition of short term is... over the next month? Your probably right. But over the next 3-6 months I would say that there should be a significant positive effect.

[dolfan87]

Too support your theory Barbarian, if everyone will notice, with the President announcing we are going to war, the DOW jumped 283 points.

Something to ponder.

87

[Jaj]

I support every man and woman who will serve in the war against Iraq. I think this is the only option left. I am so sick and tired of the French and their dealings with Iraq. They have a lot of oil contracts with them. Time to go is what I say.

Won't take long. I say two weeks with a less than a thousand casualties. Slightly more than the Gulf War, but not too much. Note I have nothing against the French people themselves...

The U.N. is bull****. A sad attempt at keeping peace.

Nato on the other hand is what I see as the meaning of power. You just can't have peace without some sort of fear of being disobedient.

I think we will be seeing gas price around 90 cents or so a gallon soon.

Godspeed to those who will fight against Iraq.:patriot:

[HofCityFan]

I agree with you Jaj on the reason France is so opposed and Russia and Germany to a less degree is who do you think has been selling the the things that Iraq needs to them.

[dolfan06]

Originally posted by HofCityFan
I agree with you Jaj on the reason France is so opposed and Russia and Germany to a less degree is who do you think has been selling the the things that Iraq needs to them.

of course france is worried, france helped build iraq's power plants, if a new regime takes over, they don't have to recognize that debt! FRANCE LOSES! not that saddam will pay them anyway!
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[Jaj]

I can't stand this bull****. I just can't. We helped the French twice. They were in deep **** two times. When they helped us in the Revolution we kept making fair deals with them and supporting them. We still think of them as heros in the American Revolution in some ways.

Germany to me is a strange one. I love their work ethic. They really are very intelligent people, but are just really afraid of another big war. They were crushed economically after both wars(more in the first offcourse).

Russia is the animal. Sounds strange now, but I see them changing their view once their oil deals are kept and prices are lowered in their country.

I see them as our greatest ally twenty years from now. Sounds strange? What would George Washington think of our greatest ally being the British?

This thing about allies bugs me. They are just their to garner support. The only one who could help us a little with their air force is Britain.

[Ducken]

Originally posted by Adphinistrator87
Too support your theory Barbarian, if everyone will notice, with the President announcing we are going to war, the DOW jumped 283 points.

Something to ponder.

87

I agree with this whole theory also. and I would think the market will be up 125- 180 today. And Iraq has the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world. so that oil can be used to rebuild iraq, thus lessoning the cost dramaticly, to the U.S.





Oh almost forgot, that big whooosh you all heard lastnight alittle after 8 pm eastern, was the sound of Sadam's A$$ sucking in air as his pucker factor blew off the charts.:evil:

Also keep in mind that his troops have alrready started surrendering to the Brits last week.

[DeDolfan]

Originally posted by Adphinistrator87
:hitself: Well, now I am starting to wonder if it was...lol

I would like to throw a few things in here.

First of all, to me this thing has to do with Saddam, and not OBL. Saddam also backs terrorist groups, and in fact has said (as an earlier poster commented on) that he will take this war around the world. That's terrorism.

Now if he doesn't have chemical, and biological weapons, then why is he as of right now (my source is fox news network) arming his elite fighters with chemical weapons? He has in fact brought almost all of his best army troops into Bahgdad (sp?).

This is either because he is going to release some serious stuff farther to the north in order to try and stop us there, and further protecting his troops (while also killing more Kurds much to his delight) or he is going to go out in a blaze of glory right there in his capital.

I sure hope it's the latter.

He had 12 years to disarm. Didn't do it, and only now after the threat of force does he even begin to show some token disarming. He invaded another country, killed 5000 of his own people with chemical gas, did not allow a single inspector in for years, and now it has come to this.

Anyone with children will understand how you deal with a bratty kid. Telling them you are going to punish them, over and over, and over again, does not get them to stop. It's only when you back your words with actual punishment, that the child learns you mean business.

Time for Saddam to get a spankin.
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87

87, as I said before, I now support a war with Iraq because "Sadom" has all but used the words that he supports terrorism. IMO, that's enought to go in. However, it doesn't mean that we couldn't fight "fire with fire" and use terrorists tactics to take him out. The only difference would be S"adom" that is terrorized and not the innocents. A few well trained sniper teams in a covert operation could do possible wonders. The end result would be the same, ie rid of the bastard plus we save the billions spent blowing the joint up and then use those funds to help build their infrastructure w/o having to aquire additional billions. That would be the biggest win/win scenario of all. plus terrorists groups may think twice in knowing that we'll use their same tactics.........against THEM tho.
Anyway, IMO, the timing is bad. If Boy George started this a year ago then we may be doing this with the rest of the world's "blessing" perhaps. Granted, he has botched up the diplomatic means but then again, I've not ever been much of a diplomatic type anyway. IMO, it's just usually a kiss ass approach anyway and at least W has the gonads to not back down from his convictions. he [finally] set a deadline and stuck to it !!

stay tuned for part II............time and place to be determined later !!!
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DD..............................................

[iceblizzard69]

Originally posted by Barbarian
Actually heres the facts. With regards to oil, only a very tiny portion of Iraqi oil is out in the market right now. A successful war will result in a dropping of the blockade, and allowing Iraq to place it's oil back into the market.

Economics 101: What happens when supply increases? Thats right, prices go down.

And The uncertainty over the war is the driving factor of many (note, many, not all) of the negative economic statistics that we have seen recently. (allthough an incompetant President has alot to do with it as well). With the coming and relative quick ending of the war, those fears and uncertainty will be eased, thus freeing up people to get back to buisiness as normal. (the other problem we will have to wait untill the next election to take care of.
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It depends on what your definition of short term is... over the next month? Your probably right. But over the next 3-6 months I would say that there should be a significant positive effect.

I think the short-term effects on the economy will last one month or even less, mainly because I think this war will be extremely short and after that the oil prices will stay up for a while. After that, the oil prices will signifigantly drop, which will really help the economy. Opening up Iraqi oil to the world will really help Europe more than us, however, because they get more of their oil from the Middle East than we do. However, I think after this war, we will start to get more oil out of Iraq to help their new government.