Is anyone else concerned about our borders?

[LeftCoastPhin]

I eluded to this in the Spoils thread and I'd like to elaborate.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to invade a foreign country but not even sweat protecting our borders? I liken it to chasing down one of the brothers that raped your wife, but not asking your friends to keep an eye at your wife at home while she is recovering from her trauma. It just seems ludicris to me that we aren't looking into closing down our borders. Hmmmmm, what would the benefits of that be? Lets see.....

It would help keep out terrorists
It would help keep out drugs
It would help regulate immigration
It would stifle illegal aliens.

All legit problems that cost lives, and for you economic gurus, trillions of dollars over a short time.

Now, I ask why are the borders open?

Our ideals, as a free country? We could still allow people in at out and checkpoints, while the rest is locked down, what a novel idea.

I would guess money, as in drug money that the govt profits from, we all know or most of us know the war on drugs is complete BULL$HIT. Our prison union lobbies stiffer penalites so they keep jobs, etc, etc, etc, etc..and on down the line. The CIA profits from it by participating in the drug trade in exchange for catching a few here and there. Big fish/ little fish story.

Also, NAFTA goes out the window. Screw Mexico, what do they do for us? Ohhhh thats right, I'm sorry, they provide CHEAP labor to save Corporate America billions, which pass on money to politicans for campaigns. Kick back city.

Not to mention all the freaking special interests group that lobby for illegals to become legas and all that crap.

I probably left stuff out and maybe it could crumble our economy, I dont know. I dont see how though, afterall we still have our precious cheap labor over-sees. I dont have all the answers, if I did, obviously I'd be in power. But at least some reguation of the border is needed, no?

As far as logistical methods, I dont see how it can be more expensive to line our borders with Army divisons than to suffer all the money we spend on the war on drugs, anti terrorism and other stuff. Tell all those a-hole prison guards to join the Army and protect the border, instead of NON VIOLENT drug offenders.

[iceblizzard69]

First of all, the American Government seems a lot more concerned with the Mexican border then the Canadian border. Terrorists could EASILY cross the non-protected Canadian border, which is only marked with a few sticks and there is no border patrol. The Mexican border is a lot more closely watched, but they still do a poor job.

As for Mexican labor, my Dad works with a lot of Mexicans, many of them here illegally. Not only do they work for less, but according to him, they work a lot harder then the Americans. They work to provide for their families, and they tend to work really hard. The thing about Mexicans is not only do they work for cheap, but they also work really really hard. It is a difficult situation, since a lot of hard working Americans lose out.

[LeftCoastPhin]

Originally posted by iceblizzard69
First of all, the American Government seems a lot more concerned with the Mexican border then the Canadian border. Terrorists could EASILY cross the non-protected Canadian border, which is only marked with a few sticks and there is no border patrol. The Mexican border is a lot more closely watched, but they still do a poor job.

As for Mexican labor, my Dad works with a lot of Mexicans, many of them here illegally. Not only do they work for less, but according to him, they work a lot harder then the Americans. They work to provide for their families, and they tend to work really hard. The thing about Mexicans is not only do they work for cheap, but they also work really really hard. It is a difficult situation, since a lot of hard working Americans lose out.

We need to lock up both borders. It's nothing against Mexicans. I'm definately in favor of them immigrating LEGALLY, and doing what they got to do to provide a better life for their familes.

When I was referring to cheap labor, I meant American corporate factories operating in Mexico, on the cheap then shipping products back to U.S to sell.

We could still have a minor NAFTA, just more reguations and checkpoints, which would dramatically slow down transports.

[PhinPhan1227]

Question LCP....if Israel can't keep their borders locked up to terrorists, how do you expect us to do so? They use methods that our Bill of Rights would NEVER allow, but are still unsuccessful. Exactly how do you expect us to really lock up our borders?

[LeftCoastPhin]

Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
Question LCP....if Israel can't keep their borders locked up to terrorists, how do you expect us to do so? They use methods that our Bill of Rights would NEVER allow, but are still unsuccessful. Exactly how do you expect us to really lock up our borders?

Fair enough question. I dont really know the answer. No method could be 100% effective. But I do think more effort and troops is a good start.

Question for you though. It seems 90% of the reasons why the middle east terrorists hate us is because our alliance with Israel and occupation. Should we consider a more swift action with Israel, meaning going to whatever drastic means necessary to protect them i.e building a "wall" around them and stationing troops to guard them. Then, totally withdraw from the rest of the middle east. That may breed more hatred but is there a solution in our future or will the vulnrability of Israel compromise our safety forever? It may sound like it, but I'm NOT blaming Israel.

[ohall]

Originally posted by LeftCoastPhin
Fair enough question. I dont really know the answer. No method could be 100% effective. But I do think more effort and troops is a good start.

Question for you though. It seems 90% of the reasons why the middle east terrorists hate us is because our alliance with Israel and occupation. Should we consider a more swift action with Israel, meaning going to whatever drastic means necessary to protect them i.e building a "wall" around them and stationing troops to guard them. Then, totally withdraw from the rest of the middle east. That may breed more hatred but is there a solution in our future or will the vulnrability of Israel compromise our safety forever? It may sound like it, but I'm NOT blaming Israel.

You can't seal any border and remain free, if we did we would have to basically make a Berlin style wall and man that wall ever so many thosand yards. Personally I don't want to live in a country like that. At that point this would no longer be America IMO.

Oliver...

[Sniper]

Originally posted by LeftCoastPhin
I eluded to this in the Spoils thread and I'd like to elaborate.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to invade a foreign country but not even sweat protecting our borders? I liken it to chasing down one of the brothers that raped your wife, but not asking your friends to keep an eye at your wife at home while she is recovering from her trauma. It just seems ludicris to me that we aren't looking into closing down our borders. Hmmmmm, what would the benefits of that be? Lets see.....

It would help keep out terrorists
It would help keep out drugs
It would help regulate immigration
It would stifle illegal aliens.

All legit problems that cost lives, and for you economic gurus, trillions of dollars over a short time.

Now, I ask why are the borders open?

Our ideals, as a free country? We could still allow people in at out and checkpoints, while the rest is locked down, what a novel idea.

I would guess money, as in drug money that the govt profits from, we all know or most of us know the war on drugs is complete BULL$HIT. Our prison union lobbies stiffer penalites so they keep jobs, etc, etc, etc, etc..and on down the line. The CIA profits from it by participating in the drug trade in exchange for catching a few here and there. Big fish/ little fish story.

Also, NAFTA goes out the window. Screw Mexico, what do they do for us? Ohhhh thats right, I'm sorry, they provide CHEAP labor to save Corporate America billions, which pass on money to politicans for campaigns. Kick back city.

Not to mention all the freaking special interests group that lobby for illegals to become legas and all that crap.

I probably left stuff out and maybe it could crumble our economy, I dont know. I dont see how though, afterall we still have our precious cheap labor over-sees. I dont have all the answers, if I did, obviously I'd be in power. But at least some reguation of the border is needed, no?

As far as logistical methods, I dont see how it can be more expensive to line our borders with Army divisons than to suffer all the money we spend on the war on drugs, anti terrorism and other stuff. Tell all those a-hole prison guards to join the Army and protect the border, instead of NON VIOLENT drug offenders.

I agree 100% with your sentiments.

[PhinPhan1227]

Originally posted by LeftCoastPhin
Fair enough question. I dont really know the answer. No method could be 100% effective. But I do think more effort and troops is a good start.

Question for you though. It seems 90% of the reasons why the middle east terrorists hate us is because our alliance with Israel and occupation. Should we consider a more swift action with Israel, meaning going to whatever drastic means necessary to protect them i.e building a "wall" around them and stationing troops to guard them. Then, totally withdraw from the rest of the middle east. That may breed more hatred but is there a solution in our future or will the vulnrability of Israel compromise our safety forever? It may sound like it, but I'm NOT blaming Israel.

That's the stated position, but it's a crock. Terrorists in Saudi Arabia couldn't care less about the Palestinians. They hate America because, for the most part, they're taught to hate America. Bring decent education to the Middle East, and you'll cut the number of potential terrorsits to a tiny fraction of their present numbers. The reason the people who are teaching them hate us is because we represent a level of power and dominance that they can only look back on. They know that they once influenced world politics, and hate us because we are everything they once were. As for Israel, we DID pressure them to concede to Palestinian demands, and they did so. The only thing they wouldn't do was divide Jerusalem, and I don't blame them one bit. If ANY people in the world have a claim to ANY city, it's the Jews and Jerusalem. Either way, we CAN'T seal ourselves, or anyone else behind a wall, it just doesn't work. We tried it in the 30's, and it's what kept us from dealing with Hilter when he was still weak. As soon as you isolate yourself, you're allowing everyone else to determine YOUR fate. That's the main point with Saddam as well. We could have just left him alone, and allowed HIM to choose the time and place for the conflict. Basic military tactics, allow the other guy to choose the time and place of battle and you're already more than half way to losing.

[t2thejz]

Troops do not belong at the border it is not their job

[LeftCoastPhin]

Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
That's the stated position, but it's a crock. Terrorists in Saudi Arabia couldn't care less about the Palestinians. They hate America because, for the most part, they're taught to hate America. Bring decent education to the Middle East, and you'll cut the number of potential terrorsits to a tiny fraction of their present numbers. The reason the people who are teaching them hate us is because we represent a level of power and dominance that they can only look back on. They know that they once influenced world politics, and hate us because we are everything they once were. As for Israel, we DID pressure them to concede to Palestinian demands, and they did so. The only thing they wouldn't do was divide Jerusalem, and I don't blame them one bit. If ANY people in the world have a claim to ANY city, it's the Jews and Jerusalem. Either way, we CAN'T seal ourselves, or anyone else behind a wall, it just doesn't work. We tried it in the 30's, and it's what kept us from dealing with Hilter when he was still weak. As soon as you isolate yourself, you're allowing everyone else to determine YOUR fate. That's the main point with Saddam as well. We could have just left him alone, and allowed HIM to choose the time and place for the conflict. Basic military tactics, allow the other guy to choose the time and place of battle and you're already more than half way to losing.

Yea, i'm not to crazy on the wall idea either. It's an act of desperation, but these are desparate times. That's why I asked. Good points, I agree.

Good explanation as to why they hate us as well. I can buy into it, but I know our foreign policy has a lot to do with it too. I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with it but it factors. It's definately not a simple matter.

Now, I am in no way a doomsday type of guy but in the back of my mind I could see the Arab nations rising up and coming together to circle us in Iraq and start WWIII. I dont know where that came from, maybe because I was thinking about how our policy ticked them off in the first place. I'm not saying we should give in by any means.

Hell, I dont know what I'm saying now, ha. I just know this is getting to be a bigger situation than a lot of people including myself may have realized.