LeBron James...PROOF that Loyalty DOESN'T MATTER...

[nyjunc]

Big names = Stars

You know the Lakers won three titles with Shaq, right? Phil Jackson (another star coming to Los Angeles) shows up and it was all over for the Western Conference.

San Antonio, again, quite possibly the best run organization in basketball. San Antonio never had to rebuild since they lucked out with Duncan. Very similar to the Colts with Andrew Luck. Colts don't exactly have to rebuild now that they have a franchise QB for the next 12 years. If Duncan isn't draft by the Spurs, no way in hell does he volunteer to go their via free agency. Jason Kidd was a superstar. Dude was charmed by San Antonio when he was a free agent. Charmed by the same team that beat him. Not interested in San Antonio. Spurs have simply drafted incredibly well because they're so smart. Not to mention they have one of the best coaches in the history of the league.

Big names do not equal stars, stars are the games greatest players. 'melo is a great offensive player, he's not a great overall player.

Yep, you know they didn't win the first 3 years he was there, right? you know they made it as far as the Conf Finals once, right? you know they lost 4-1, 4-0 and 4-0 in those 3 postseasons, right?

San Antonio won 2 titles while Shaq was a Laker so they didn't run away.


SA became this great run organization after they got Duncan, last I checked they weren't competing for titles pre Duncan.

Kidd chose to play in NEW JERSEY, NJ is NOT NY. The Nets were one of the worst franchises the sport has ever seen playing in front of no fans every night(much like Miami prior to Shaq and post Shaq until Lebron got there). No one cared about the Nets even when they made back to back Finals apps, Kidd re-signed b/c he made more money and the nets were his team rather than trying to hop on the back of Duncan for a title.

Guys go where they think they can win and Cle had the ability to win titles w/ Lebron there.

[Vaark]

LeBron "slinked" out of Cleveland?? Yeah unlike Dwight Howard, he kept his lip zipped, and didn't become a drama queen. Even then, while he handled the actual departure a bit clumsily, he still earned the Boys and Girls Clubs of America some $2.5million. Lets see what the self-serving, manipulative, coach-firing Dwight Howard ends up doing!

What's worse: LeBron leaving Cleveland after giving them a second chance to be responsible but still ending up with a toasted Shaq and a HC who'd be mediocre if he wasn't on the team? .. or an organization such as the Sonics being permitted to slink out of Seattle leaving their long-suffering fans high and dry (including folks like my GF's cousin who'd come down most weeks from Vancouver) soon after drafting Durant and having high hopes the light was finally getting brighter and the tunnel shorter? Sheesh.

[nyjunc]

You just opened yourself up for junk's rant about how Antwan Jamison was a two time all-star. Not to mention he had Shaq.

LULZ. Dan Gilbert went to LeBron and asked him who he wanted him to go get lol. The top dawg asking a 21 year-old kid how to run the business. LeBron didn't even go to college. You think Dr. Jerry Buss goes to Kobe and asks him what to do? No lol. Dan Gilbert is every bit as clueless as nyjunc.

he didn't go to him, lebron demanded it and lebron held all the cards just like Spoelstra would have been fired(the scapegoat) ahd they not won this year.

If memory serves me, a deadly serious Kobe threatened to go to the Clippers or the Bulls in FA if the Lakers didn't pull a rabbit out of their azzes like they did by stealing Pau. What more could LeBron do than re up and hope for the best.. which didn't happen?

he did and that would have been bad for the league but he wouldn't have been doing so to hop on the back of another player to win a title.

Pau is a good player, he's not a great player.

---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 AM ----------

LeBron "slinked" out of Cleveland?? Yeah unlike Dwight Howard, he kept his lip zipped, and didn't become a drama queen. Even then, while he handled the actual departure a bit clumsily, he still earned the Boys and Girls Clubs of America some $2.5million. Lets see what the self-serving, manipulative, coach-firing Dwight Howard ends up doing!

What's worse: LeBron leaving Cleveland after giving them a second chance to be responsible but still ending up with a toasted Shaq and a HC who'd be mediocre if he wasn't on the team? .. or an organization such as the Sonics being permitted to slink out of Seattle leaving their long-suffering fans high and dry (including folks like my GF's cousin who'd come down most weeks from Vancouver) soon after drafting Durant and having high hopes the light was finally getting brighter and the tunnel shorter? Sheesh.

Where did I praise Dwight Howard? and again Dwight Howard is nowhere near Lebron.

I think they are both equally bad for the game.

[JCane]

Since basketball players don't have "normal" jobs, the way I see it, they have roughly 10-12 prime years to win titles and make their money. So there's no real margin do error. LeBron was seven year in and feeling the heat. He could either explore other options, and continue to waste the potential of a great NBA career in Cleveland where he would have never won anything.

LeBron leaves Cleveland, Cleveland wins 12 games. Jordan leaves Chicago, Chicago is a playoff team still. That right there tells you that even without Jordan, Chicago was a pretty good basketball team. Chicago put the pieces around Jordan. Cleveland stuck thumbs ups their butts in the morning and then spent the afternoon hours smelling it. LeBron was never going to win in Cleveland.

I firmly believe nyjunc will easily survive the zombie apocalypse.

[JCane]

Dan Gilbert definitely went to LeBron. Ask Cleveland fans. Anytime you point out to them that Cleveland didn't put any pieces around LeBron they immediately let you know that Dan Gilbert went out and got the players that LeBron wanted.

[Vaark]

he didn't go to him, lebron demanded it and lebron held all the cards just like Spoelstra would have been fired(the scapegoat) ahd they not won this year.



he did and that would have been bad for the league but he wouldn't have been doing so to hop on the back of another player to win a title.

Pau is a good player, he's not a great player.

---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 AM ----------



Where did I praise Dwight Howard? and again Dwight Howard is nowhere near Lebron.

I think they are both equally bad for the game.

To you there are different levels of "elite" when it comes to a LeBron vs the likes of Wade, Howard, Pippin or Shaq, but only one inflexible level of "elite" when it comes to QBs or teams with only one out of three legitimate winning seasons that beat opponents with combined sub .400 winning percentages and had to be gifted into the playoffs. Funny but again typical of how you form a subjective opinion based on your pro or anti biases and then parse your arguments to form-fit. If you were around in Spain near the start of the 16th century and believed past popular opinion you'd be arguing with Chris Columbus that the world was flat despite his first hand perceptions.

Oh and far Pau is better than any player LeBron played with up until last season.

[JCane]

Of course Cleveland had the ability to win titles there. Break out another one of your genius wisdoms for us this morning lol. Good grief.

Any team in the league has the ability to win if LeBron is on your team. Unfortunately Cleveland didn't have the brains to win with LeBron and that's why he left. They kept sticking JJ Hickson with LeBron. Antwan Jamisonand other scrub players.

[MarshallFin1]

To you there are different levels of "elite" when it comes to a LeBron vs the likes of Wade, Howard, Pippin or Shaq, but only one inflexible level of "elite" when it comes to QBs or teams with only one out of three legitimate winning seasons that beat opponents with combined sub .400 winning percentages and had to be gifted into the playoffs. Funny but again typical of how you form a subjective opinion based on your pro or anti biases and then parse your arguments to form-fit. If you were around in Spain near the start of the 16th century and believed past popular opinion you'd be arguing with Chris Columbus that the world was flat despite his first hand perceptions.

Oh and far Pau is better than any player LeBron played with up until last season.

parade on sun sports in at 11 a.m for the ones who cant be there. (me) cant wait!!!!

omg junc, you still in here arguing about this dude? lmfao, junc is persistant il give him that. The facts are, nobody wanted to play in cleveland, period. DOesnt matter if they had lebron or not, cleveland is known as a losing town in whatever sport there in, with or without lebron, it doesnt matter, they suck. They could not get any legit free agent stars like paul pierce/stoudamaire/ray allen/bosh. They had to settle for mo williams/antwan jamisson type players, decent players at best. shaq was over the hill when he got there.

[JCane]

To you there are different levels of "elite" when it comes to a LeBron vs the likes of Wade, Howard, Pippin or Shaq, but only one inflexible level of "elite" when it comes to QBs or teams with only one out of three legitimate winning seasons that beat opponents with combined sub .400 winning percentages and had to be gifted into the playoffs. Funny but again typical of how you form a subjective opinion based on your pro or anti biases and then parse your arguments to form-fit. If you were around in Spain near the start of the 16th century and believed past popular opinion you'd be arguing with Chris Columbus that the world was flat despite his first hand perceptions.

Oh and far Pau is better than any player LeBron played with up until last season.

Bingo.

Dude has no real idea of "elite."

Elite levels are defined in his eyes by a combination of who is good and who he likes as a player.

[nyjunc]

Since basketball players don't have "normal" jobs, the way I see it, they have roughly 10-12 prime years to win titles and make their money. So there's no real margin do error. LeBron was seven year in and feeling the heat. He could either explore other options, and continue to waste the potential of a great NBA career in Cleveland where he would have never won anything.

LeBron leaves Cleveland, Cleveland wins 12 games. Jordan leaves Chicago, Chicago is a playoff team still. That right there tells you that even without Jordan, Chicago was a pretty good basketball team. Chicago put the pieces around Jordan. Cleveland stuck thumbs ups their butts in the morning and then spent the afternoon hours smelling it. LeBron was never going to win in Cleveland.

I firmly believe nyjunc will easily survive the zombie apocalypse.

The starting lineup in Chi had 4 guys from the year before, 4 guys who had won championships alongside Michael plus they added Tony Kukoc, Steve Kerr & Luc Longley.

who did Cle pick up? by the end of the year they didn't have a single starter from the previous year starting for them, not a single starter from '10 was even playing later in the '11 season.

it wasn't all Lebron, if they had all the pieces around him starting when he left they would have won a lot of games.

and now Cle is building a pretty good team and can add a nice piece this week to team up w/ Irving.