Ahhh, what the hell ... Matt Moore > Mark Sanchez

[Batroc]

The Jets are a solid team and as much as I despise him, Rex Ryan is a very good coach (much better than ours). With that being said, Jets fans who refuse to admit that Sanchez is regressing in much the same fashion Chad Henne did last season are in denial. The Jets were a couple of Stevie Johnson brainfarts away from losing that game to the Bills and Sanchez played a big part in that. That interception out of his own endzone was terrible.

[The New Guy]

They didn't get blown out like Miami did against the Jets where they had no shot int he 2nd half.

Whenever we win it's b/c we get lucky that the other team agve it away but when we lose turning it over it's b/c the other team was better- how does that happen?

That average team is going to win 10-11 games and win their division.

It doesn't matter what the score was at the beginning of the 4th. The Jets lost by 21 points. It was an embarrassing loss. Especially after all of the talk before the game.

I never said when the Jets win it is only because the other team gave it away, and when the Jets lose it is always because the other team played better. Sometimes that is the case, and sometimes it is not. The Jets have lost games to lesser teams by turning it over, but so what. That is just as bad as being outplayed. Turnovers are a part of the game, but it is very different when you have the game won and make critical mistakes in the final minutes of the game. Sanchez threw that pick 6 against Denver in the 3rd, but the Jets were still ahead late in the 4th. The Broncos still had to drive it 95 yards for the win. The Jets D and O still had chances to win it, but failed. That is very different from Dallas giving the Jets 10 points when they didn't have to do anything on offense to get them. Dallas clearly outplayed the Jets and gave the game away.

I'm not so sure Dallas will win the division, but it really doesn't make any difference to me if they do. I can look at who they have played and how they played against them and tell you that they are an average team. KC won 10 games last year and won their division. Does that mean they were better than average?

[nyjunc]

It doesn't matter what the score was at the beginning of the 4th. The Jets lost by 21 points. It was an embarrassing loss. Especially after all of the talk before the game.

I never said when the Jets win it is only because the other team gave it away, and when the Jets lose it is always because the other team played better. Sometimes that is the case, and sometimes it is not. The Jets have lost games to lesser teams by turning it over, but so what. That is just as bad as being outplayed. Turnovers are a part of the game, but it is very different when you have the game won and make critical mistakes in the final minutes of the game. Sanchez threw that pick 6 against Denver in the 3rd, but the Jets were still ahead late in the 4th. The Broncos still had to drive it 95 yards for the win. The Jets D and O still had chances to win it, but failed. That is very different from Dallas giving the Jets 10 points when they didn't have to do anything on offense to get them. Dallas clearly outplayed the Jets and gave the game away.

I'm not so sure Dallas will win the division, but it really doesn't make any difference to me if they do. I can look at who they have played and how they played against them and tell you that they are an average team. KC won 10 games last year and won their division. Does that mean they were better than average?

so when we turn it over and set up Dallas it's a great job by Dallas but when we do the same to them it's Dallas' fault, got it.

What talk leading up to the NE game? I thought our guys were tame that week. Please show examples.

You should have used '08 Miami as your example but either way the NFC East this year is better than the '08 AFC East or '10 NFC West. last I checked only 2 teams beat SF and Dallas was one of them- IN SF

[The New Guy]

so when we turn it over and set up Dallas it's a great job by Dallas but when we do the same to them it's Dallas' fault, got it.

What talk leading up to the NE game? I thought our guys were tame that week. Please show examples.

You should have used '08 Miami as your example but either way the NFC East this year is better than the '08 AFC East or '10 NFC West. last I checked only 2 teams beat SF and Dallas was one of them- IN SF

Apparently, you don't get it. A turnover early in the 4th (when you are already down 7) ,and not in scoring range is different than a turnover on the opponents 2 yardline (when you are up 7) later in the 4th. Add that to a missed blocking assignment that led to a score which allowed the other team to tie the game, and another turnover (which gave the other team the ball in FG range) when the game was tied with 0:50 to go in the game, and then you can call it giving the game away. Dallas doesn't get any credit for outplaying the Jets. They blew it, but it doesn't mean that they didn't outplay the Jets. If you can't see that it took a Dallas meltdown for the Jets to get the win, I can't help you.

I disagree that the '08 AFC East was weaker than the '10 NFC East. The East had (2) 11 win teams and a 9-7 Jets team. Before you give me the weak schedule excuse, please look at all the great teams the Giants, Cowboys and Eagles have beaten. Regardless of which example you want to use, you agree with me that winning your division doesn't mean much. Neither does a win against SF in week 2. We will see if Dallas makes the playoffs and what they do against good teams.

It is really funny the stuff you will debate. The Jets have played bad all year, and have not beaten any good teams, and instead of seeing that, you try to uplift the 1 average team the Jets beat and make it out like they outplayed Dallas when they did not.

[nyjunc]

The Cowboys beat SF, that's better than any win Miami, NE or NYJ had in 2008. is that good enough for you?

We have played like an average team, that doesn't mean every win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better.

[The New Guy]

The Cowboys beat SF, that's better than any win Miami, NE or NYJ had in 2008. is that good enough for you?

We have played like an average team, that doesn't mean every win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better.

No, it is not. 1 win against a good team doesn't make you a good team. Especially if it comes early in the season. The Rams beat the Saints. Is that good enough for you? If the NFC East can produce (2) 11 win teams, and a 9-7 team, then we can talk.

When did I say that every Jet win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better. I only say that when it is the truth.

[nyjunc]

No, it is not. 1 win against a good team doesn't make you a good team. Especially if it comes early in the season. The Rams beat the Saints. Is that good enough for you? If the NFC East can produce (2) 11 win teams, and a 9-7 team, then we can talk.

When did I say that every Jet win is luck thanks to the other team and every loss is b/c the other team was better. I only say that when it is the truth.

You just asked which teams the Cowboys and Giants beat? I give you Dallas' best win and now that's not good enough? I didn't even bring up the Giants beating NE in Foxboro. Any way you slice it those teams are better than the teams at the top of the AFC East in 2008.

You make excuses whenever we win.

[The New Guy]

You just asked which teams the Cowboys and Giants beat? I give you Dallas' best win and now that's not good enough? I didn't even bring up the Giants beating NE in Foxboro. Any way you slice it those teams are better than the teams at the top of the AFC East in 2008.

You make excuses whenever we win.

The Cowboys big win against SF doesn't erase what I've seen during the other games. I don't believe the schedules are much different and the '08 East produced 3 teams with winning records. I still think the '08 East was better than this years NFC East, but the point really wasn't about the 2 different divisions. I'm focusing in on the Cowboys and what kind of team they are. I think they are average, and you think differently. We will see who is right when the playoffs come along.

You call me stating what actually happened in the game excuses. I don't make excuses every time the Jets win. Please quote the excuses I gave after the Jets beat the Jags, Dolphins and Bills. The only game I said the Jets were given was the Cowboy game. The Cowboys outplayed them, but had a meltdown at the end and gave it away.

I have and will point out things that I felt were from the other team making mistakes rather than blindly giving credit to the Jets, but that isn't excuses. It is the truth. The Bills could have won the other day had it not been for a dropped pass by Johnson. Is that an excuse, or is it the truth? Should I credit the Jets D for that drop? Anytime I bring up the mistakes the other team made, you want to talk about the mistakes the Jets made. The Bills don't get a pass for mistakes that lost them the game, and neither do the Jets or Cowboys.

Every team turns the ball over, but not all turnovers happen the same way. The blocked punt the Jets returned for a TD is very different from the interception Lee got and returned to the Jets 1. Both were turnovers that lead to scores, but one was from good D and the other was from a mistake by the lineman.

[nyjunc]

The Cowboys big win against SF doesn't erase what I've seen during the other games. I don't believe the schedules are much different and the '08 East produced 3 teams with winning records. I still think the '08 East was better than this years NFC East, but the point really wasn't about the 2 different divisions. I'm focusing in on the Cowboys and what kind of team they are. I think they are average, and you think differently. We will see who is right when the playoffs come along.

You call me stating what actually happened in the game excuses. I don't make excuses every time the Jets win. Please quote the excuses I gave after the Jets beat the Jags, Dolphins and Bills. The only game I said the Jets were given was the Cowboy game. The Cowboys outplayed them, but had a meltdown at the end and gave it away.

I have and will point out things that I felt were from the other team making mistakes rather than blindly giving credit to the Jets, but that isn't excuses. It is the truth. The Bills could have won the other day had it not been for a dropped pass by Johnson. Is that an excuse, or is it the truth? Should I credit the Jets D for that drop? Anytime I bring up the mistakes the other team made, you want to talk about the mistakes the Jets made. The Bills don't get a pass for mistakes that lost them the game, and neither do the Jets or Cowboys.

Every team turns the ball over, but not all turnovers happen the same way. The blocked punt the Jets returned for a TD is very different from the interception Lee got and returned to the Jets 1. Both were turnovers that lead to scores, but one was from good D and the other was from a mistake by the lineman.

We all had creampuff sches in '08 playing 8 games against the awful AFC & NFC West divisions.

The Cowboys beat SF, whooped the Bills, nearly beat NE, NYJ & Det. That is more impressive than Miami '08 whose best wein was against Matt Cassell led NE.

The Jets could have won in oak if Cromartie doesn't fumble, they clould have won in NE if the Branch fumble is calle dcorrectly, they could have won vs. NE if McKnight doesn't fumble the punt but we didn't just like Dal and Buf didn't beat us.

The Jets don't get any credit for blocking the punt? it's all a Dallas mistake? How come when opponents make plays they get all the credit but when we do it's only b/c an opponent made a mistake?

[The New Guy]

We all had creampuff sches in '08 playing 8 games against the awful AFC & NFC West divisions.

The Cowboys beat SF, whooped the Bills, nearly beat NE, NYJ & Det. That is more impressive than Miami '08 whose best wein was against Matt Cassell led NE.

The Jets could have won in oak if Cromartie doesn't fumble, they clould have won in NE if the Branch fumble is calle dcorrectly, they could have won vs. NE if McKnight doesn't fumble the punt but we didn't just like Dal and Buf didn't beat us.

The Jets don't get any credit for blocking the punt? it's all a Dallas mistake? How come when opponents make plays they get all the credit but when we do it's only b/c an opponent made a mistake?

I know I am not going to convince you that '08 NE and Mia were on par with Dallas this year. I just don't think Dallas is much more than an average team. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see what happens when the playoffs get here.

You brought up a bunch of mistakes the Jets made when they were already losing the game. The Jets did not outplay any of those teams. That is totally different than leading the game in the 4th quarter and having a meltdown when that is the only way the other team was going to win. Again, Dallas gets NO credit for the meltdown. They blew it, which is almost worse than being outplayed.

Why should the Jets get credit on the blocked punt? Yes, they made the play, but the lineman allowed the guy to come through untouched. It wasn't like he made a move, or shed the block. It was a Dallas mistake that had little to do with the Jets. It is similar to the McKnight fumble against NE. The only difference is Dallas was winning against the Jets late in the 4th (The Jets scored a TD on that play), and the Jets were losing to NE early in the 3rd (NE still had to go 15 yards on O and it only led to a FG)

Both of those turnovers had little to do with the ST, and had more to do with the other team making a mistake, so I don't feel like they deserve credit.

Not all turnovers are the same. You have to see what happened and give credit where it is due. Give me some examples of where I didn't give credit to the Jets for a play, but I gave it to another team on the same type of play.