Whao!! Jets may release santonio holmes wednesday!!

[nyjunc]

It just shows a pattern that Pitt has down years after Super Bowl wins and that a bad Cincy team has swept Pitt before. Sweeping a division opponent (especially when that division opponent has a down year) does not make you a good team. You keep trying to prove that Cincy was a good team because they swept Pitt, but Pitt wasn't very good that year. Pitt also lost to: 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle.


The 08 Dolphins aren't comparable to the 09 Jets?
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Is it because the 09 Jets won 9 whole games and lost to 6 teams that didn't make the playoffs? Is it because they faced 2 teams to end the season that had absolutely no reason to win and allowed them to get to 9-7 instead of 7-9? Maybe it is because they faced Cincy and an overrated SD (that missed 3 FGs in a 3 point loss) to make it to the AFCC game? You can think what you want, but it is just as crazy to me as you thinking that the Jets are an Elite team and that Sanchez is a franchise QB.

1980 has nothing to do w/ the Steelers just like 1975 or 1979 when they won the SB a year after winning it.

That division opponent wouldn't have had a down year if not for Cincy, if they sweep Cincy they win 11 games and easily win the division, even if they split they win the division.

It's b/c they got into the playoffs and won 2 road playoff games vs. a team getting humiliated at home in the WC round. One team was overmatched in the WC rd, the other held a lead int he 2nd half of the title game and backed that season up w/ another trip to the title game in 2010.

[The New Guy]

1980 has nothing to do w/ the Steelers just like 1975 or 1979 when they won the SB a year after winning it.

That division opponent wouldn't have had a down year if not for Cincy, if they sweep Cincy they win 11 games and easily win the division, even if they split they win the division.

It's b/c they got into the playoffs and won 2 road playoff games vs. a team getting humiliated at home in the WC round. One team was overmatched in the WC rd, the other held a lead int he 2nd half of the title game and backed that season up w/ another trip to the title game in 2010.

Yes, it was only Cincy that caused Pitt to have a down year.
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Just forget the fact that Pitt also lost to 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle. I'm sure if Pitt had faced any other 2 teams other than the mighty Bengals twice, they would have won them for sure.

Like I said before, people who are not homers consider the opponents when comparing playoff success. The Dolphins won 11 games to get a division title and only lost to 2 non playoff teams (9-7 Jets and 11-5 NE) Yes, the schedule wasn't that hard, but they beat the teams they had to. The 09 Jets were a joke in the regular season losing to 6 non playoff teams. Without the charity of the Colts, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Had they faced the 08 Ravens (even in NY) they would have gotten their but kicked even worse than Miami did.

[nyjunc]

Yes, it was only Cincy that caused Pitt to have a down year.
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Just forget the fact that Pitt also lost to 7-9 CHi, 4-12 KC, 5-11 Oak, and 5-11 Cle. I'm sure if Pitt had faced any other 2 teams other than the mighty Bengals twice, they would have won them for sure.

Like I said before, people who are not homers consider the opponents when comparing playoff success. The Dolphins won 11 games to get a division title and only lost to 2 non playoff teams (9-7 Jets and 11-5 NE) Yes, the schedule wasn't that hard, but they beat the teams they had to. The 09 Jets were a joke in the regular season losing to 6 non playoff teams. Without the charity of the Colts, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Had they faced the 08 Ravens (even in NY) they would have gotten their but kicked even worse than Miami did.

It wasn't only Cincy but if it wasn't for Cincy they win 11 games.

If it was so easy to beat Pitt why couldn't Miami do it at home? Pitt did beat the Vikings, GB and Baltimore.

I consider the opponents, Miami had a cupcake schedule and didn't have to deal w/ Tom Brady. The Jets lost to 4 non playoff teams(5 games as they lost to Miami twice). Miami lost to 3 non playoff teams unless you think Houston made the playoffs in 2008.

Miami beat ONE playoff bound team and that was 8-8 SD in the midst of starting 3-5, that's more impressive than beating NE? NE was only 10-6 but they "layed down" in week 17, if that applies against the Jets it has to work for them too, right? So using your logic NE really won 11 games and we gave them their first loss of the season and one of two during the first half of the season.

We may have lost to Bal '08 b/c Rex is spooked by the Ravens but the game would have been close, we would not have been humiliated. We lost to 2 much better teams than the '08 Ravens in the '09 and '10 title games and we played very competitive games aginst both teams, we had chances in the 4th qtr against both unlike Miami in the WC rd vs. Baltimore.

[The New Guy]

It wasn't only Cincy but if it wasn't for Cincy they win 11 games.

If it was so easy to beat Pitt why couldn't Miami do it at home? Pitt did beat the Vikings, GB and Baltimore.

I consider the opponents, Miami had a cupcake schedule and didn't have to deal w/ Tom Brady. The Jets lost to 4 non playoff teams(5 games as they lost to Miami twice). Miami lost to 3 non playoff teams unless you think Houston made the playoffs in 2008.

Miami beat ONE playoff bound team and that was 8-8 SD in the midst of starting 3-5, that's more impressive than beating NE? NE was only 10-6 but they "layed down" in week 17, if that applies against the Jets it has to work for them too, right? So using your logic NE really won 11 games and we gave them their first loss of the season and one of two during the first half of the season.

We may have lost to Bal '08 b/c Rex is spooked by the Ravens but the game would have been close, we would not have been humiliated. We lost to 2 much better teams than the '08 Ravens in the '09 and '10 title games and we played very competitive games aginst both teams, we had chances in the 4th qtr against both unlike Miami in the WC rd vs. Baltimore.

Miami probably would have beat Pitt if Henne played in the whole game. We got Pat White in the 3rd and then after he went out with injury Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen played well, but killed us in the end.

Quit trying to spin. Who cares about playoff bound. Just because one team makes the playoffs doesn't make them better than a team that missed the playoffs. Do you think that the 2010 Seahawks (7-9) were better than the Giants (10-6), or the Buccaneers (10-6)?

The 08 Dolphins beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. (11-5 NE, 9-7 NYJ, 8-8 SD, 8-8 Den) I don't care that NE missed the playoffs at 11-5. They made it a year later at 10-6. NE was not a much better team in 09. Especially early in the year with Brady coming off the knee injury. The Bills nearly beat them in week 1 and then they lost to the Jets in week 2. NE only won 10 games that year and only beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Exactly the same amount as the 08 Dolphins. How did NE lay down in week 17? Hoyer came in for 1 series before the half. Brady played the rest of the game. According to you, NE proved what a crappy team they were by losing to the Ravens in the WC round by a larger margin than what the 08 Dolphins did.

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Just look at that ^. You are really trying to convince me that 9-7 team (with losses to 7-9 Miami (twice), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax, and 9-7 Atl) was better than an 11-5 team whose only losses were against the Cardinals ( 9-7 NFC Champs) Jets, (9-7), Texans (8-8) Ravens (11-5) and NE (11-5)

I know the next point is they advanced in the playoffs and the Dolphins didn't, but that is only because the Jets didn't have to face the Ravens. I disagree that it would have been a close game, but who cares? You don't advance in the playoffs with close losses.

[nyjunc]

Miami probably would have beat Pitt if Henne played in the whole game. We got Pat White in the 3rd and then after he went out with injury Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen played well, but killed us in the end.

Quit trying to spin. Who cares about playoff bound. Just because one team makes the playoffs doesn't make them better than a team that missed the playoffs. Do you think that the 2010 Seahawks (7-9) were better than the Giants (10-6), or the Buccaneers (10-6)?

The 08 Dolphins beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. (11-5 NE, 9-7 NYJ, 8-8 SD, 8-8 Den) I don't care that NE missed the playoffs at 11-5. They made it a year later at 10-6. NE was not a much better team in 09. Especially early in the year with Brady coming off the knee injury. The Bills nearly beat them in week 1 and then they lost to the Jets in week 2. NE only won 10 games that year and only beat 4 teams that were 8-8 or better. Exactly the same amount as the 08 Dolphins. How did NE lay down in week 17? Hoyer came in for 1 series before the half. Brady played the rest of the game. According to you, NE proved what a crappy team they were by losing to the Ravens in the WC round by a larger margin than what the 08 Dolphins did.




Just look at that ^. You are really trying to convince me that 9-7 team (with losses to 7-9 Miami (twice), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax, and 9-7 Atl) was better than an 11-5 team whose only losses were against the Cardinals ( 9-7 NFC Champs) Jets, (9-7), Texans (8-8) Ravens (11-5) and NE (11-5)

I know the next point is they advanced in the playoffs and the Dolphins didn't, but that is only because the Jets didn't have to face the Ravens. I disagree that it would have been a close game, but who cares? You don't advance in the playoffs with close losses.

Yes, they couldn't beat ten or Hou w/ Henne playing a complete game but they lost to Pitt b/c henne went down
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They were alrady down a TD when henne went out and Miami's D couldn't stop Ben all game.

Yes I think the 2010 Seahawks were as good as the '10 Giants and Bucs, it didn't imopress me that thegiants won a couple of late games after choking away their season and that TB beat bad teams all year w/ zero pressure to win.

The '08 Dolphins beat 4 .500 or better teams? Wow! they beat the choking Jets, the choking Broncos and Cassell's Pats early in the year along w/ SD when they were struggling. They beat ONE playoff bound team and that team was 8-8.

10-6 in 2009 was better than 11-5 in 2008, the '09 Pats were much better than the '08 version b/c they had Brady for 16 games.

We count near wins and losses now? NE started 6-2, one of those losses was to the Jets. You can whine about that any way you want but those are facts.

NE treated that week 17 game like an exhibition game. Would they take Brady out in a regular game? they may not have emptied the bench but they didn't treat it seriously kind of like the week 17 games a few years earlier when belichick had Flutie drop kick a PAT against Miami.


The Cardinals were not a good reg season team, they got hot that year at the right time. This is a team that lost 56-35 to the Jets and 47-7 to NE.

You lost to the Jets when we lost 4 of 5 to end the season.

Houston was 0-4 before facing Miami

The Ravens were good and crushed you on both the reg and postseason

The NE game was Cassell's 2nd ever start

You are right, it's about postseason success. There wasn't a playoff team in 2008 in the AFC that you would have beaten so it didn't matter that it was Baltimore. We had to go on the road and win 2 games including beating the hottest team in the league- a team better than the 2009 Ravens. You guys made the playoffs b/c:

A) Tom Brady didn't play
B) the Jets choked
c) you had one of the easiest scheds I have ever seen(so did we and we choked so Miami still gets credit for winning the division but they weren't anywhere near as good as the '09 or '10 Jets).

[Vaark]

waaaah waaah waaah, Tom Brady didn't play ad nauseum. Well in 09 when the jest faced brady in the 2nd or 3rd game of the year, he was shaky as hell and scared ****less of another injury. However by late in the season, when Brady got back his sea legs, he destroyed those same jest. The last 3X the mighty Tom Brady faced Eli and Giants. How did any of those work out?

Realistically the only jest team that might have beaten the 08 Ravens was the 98 version. A few afterwards might have given them a run, or maybe not since we know how well Chad Pennington at his healthiest and best ended up doing against them twice in 08. The 7-7, lost 6 out of 7, beat no winning teams, lose at home to Atlanta 09 version would have been even more humiliated than they were in the last 31 mins of the conference game by being outscored 24-zero with 2 of the colts 2 best defenders either hobbled or on the shelf.

[The New Guy]

Yes, they couldn't beat ten or Hou w/ Henne playing a complete game but they lost to Pitt b/c henne went down
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They were alrady down a TD when henne went out and Miami's D couldn't stop Ben all game.

Henne swept the mighty Jets that year, and also beat NE. I heard beating that 10-6 NE team was enough to make a team's season.
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Yes I think the 2010 Seahawks were as good as the '10 Giants and Bucs, it didn't imopress me that thegiants won a couple of late games after choking away their season and that TB beat bad teams all year w/ zero pressure to win.

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The Giants were 9-4 with 3 games left. They won 10 games including a 41-7 beatdown of that Seahawks team you thinki s just as good.
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That doesn't impress you, but the Seahawks wins against 6-10 SF, 9-7 SD, 11-5, Chi, 5-11 Az 2-15 Car, and 7-9 STL does.

The Seahawks also lost to the Buc that year 38-15. That makes a combined score in the Giants and Bucs games 79 to 22.
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The '08 Dolphins beat 4 .500 or better teams? Wow! they beat the choking Jets, the choking Broncos and Cassell's Pats early in the year along w/ SD when they were struggling. They beat ONE playoff bound team and that team was 8-8.

The 09 Pats beat 4 .500 or better teams. Wow! Somehow they get a ton of credit even though they won fewer games than the year before without Brady and got pummeled in the playoffs. I wonder why that is? You can keep saying playoff bound, but it is nothing more than spinning. Sometimes good teams make the playoffs, and sometimes bad teams make the playoffs while the good teams miss out.

10-6 in 2009 was better than 11-5 in 2008, the '09 Pats were much better than the '08 version b/c they had Brady for 16 games.
We count near wins and losses now? NE started 6-2, one of those losses was to the Jets. You can whine about that any way you want but those are facts.

They had a Brady that was coming off a knee injury. They were not a very strong team, and beating them the 2nd week of the season when Buff had them beat a week before is nothing to hang a season on. Had it not been for McKelvin returning / fumbling the kickoff when they were up 5 points with 2:00 minutes to go, the 6-10 Bills would have beat them as well. The 7-9 Dolphins beat them later in the year.

You are right, it's about postseason success. There wasn't a playoff team in 2008 in the AFC that you would have beaten so it didn't matter that it was Baltimore. We had to go on the road and win 2 games including beating the hottest team in the league- a team better than the 2009 Ravens. You guys made the playoffs b/c:

A) Tom Brady didn't play
B) the Jets choked
c) you had one of the easiest scheds I have ever seen(so did we and we choked so Miami still gets credit for winning the division but they weren't anywhere near as good as the '09 or '10 Jets).

You make too big of a deal about Brady not playing. You don't play NE 16 times in a season. You play them twice. The Dolphins split with Brady many times before including 09. The Dolphins would have split with them in 08 even if Brady had played. The teams the Pats lost to in 09 would, and have beat Brady before. They won 11 games without Brady, and 10 games with him the next year. If you are competing for a playoff spot, I want the team in my division that wins less games, regardless of who the QB is.

I know you will cling to thinking the 09 Jets were a better team forever, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

[nyjunc]

waaaah waaah waaah, Tom Brady didn't play ad nauseum. Well in 09 when the jest faced brady in the 2nd or 3rd game of the year, he was shaky as hell and scared ****less of another injury. However by late in the season, when Brady got back his sea legs, he destroyed those same jest. The last 3X the mighty Tom Brady faced Eli and Giants. How did any of those work out?

Realistically the only jest team that might have beaten the 08 Ravens was the 98 version. A few afterwards might have given them a run, or maybe not since we know how well Chad Pennington at his healthiest and best ended up doing against them twice in 08. The 7-7, lost 6 out of 7, beat no winning teams, lose at home to Atlanta 09 version would have been even more humiliated than they were in the last 31 mins of the conference game by being outscored 24-zero with 2 of the colts 2 best defenders either hobbled or on the shelf.

Yes, Brady was so shaky he led NE to a 6-2 start to the year and the 2 weeks after the Jets beat him he didn't throw an INT and led NE to wins over Atl and Baltimore where they scored 26 and 27 pts. Amazingly he was rusty in week 2 but not so in weeks 3 and 4.

In 2010 the Jets beat him early then got crushed late and in postseason the Jets beat him up.

The last 3 times Brady faced the Giants the NE D choked late in those games to blow all 3.

The '98 Jets would have crushed the '08 Ravens, '02 and '04 would have beaten them too in addition to '09 and '10 having a great chance.

Chad at his healthiest best was in 2002 not 2008 and defenses like baltimore's gave Chad fits throughout his career so Miami getting destroyed tells us nothing other than the Dolphins weren't good enough to compete w/ a good, not great, Baltimore team.

Henne swept the mighty Jets that year, and also beat NE. I heard beating that 10-6 NE team was enough to make a team's season.
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The Giants were 9-4 with 3 games left. They won 10 games including a 41-7 beatdown of that Seahawks team you thinki s just as good.
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That doesn't impress you, but the Seahawks wins against 6-10 SF, 9-7 SD, 11-5, Chi, 5-11 Az 2-15 Car, and 7-9 STL does.

The Seahawks also lost to the Buc that year 38-15. That makes a combined score in the Giants and Bucs games 79 to 22.
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The 09 Pats beat 4 .500 or better teams. Wow! Somehow they get a ton of credit even though they won fewer games than the year before without Brady and got pummeled in the playoffs. I wonder why that is? You can keep saying playoff bound, but it is nothing more than spinning. Sometimes good teams make the playoffs, and sometimes bad teams make the playoffs while the good teams miss out.



They had a Brady that was coming off a knee injury. They were not a very strong team, and beating them the 2nd week of the season when Buff had them beat a week before is nothing to hang a season on. Had it not been for McKelvin returning / fumbling the kickoff when they were up 5 points with 2:00 minutes to go, the 6-10 Bills would have beat them as well. The 7-9 Dolphins beat them later in the year.



You make too big of a deal about Brady not playing. You don't play NE 16 times in a season. You play them twice. The Dolphins split with Brady many times before including 09. The Dolphins would have split with them in 08 even if Brady had played. The teams the Pats lost to in 09 would, and have beat Brady before. They won 11 games without Brady, and 10 games with him the next year. If you are competing for a playoff spot, I want the team in my division that wins less games, regardless of who the QB is.

I know you will cling to thinking the 09 Jets were a better team forever, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

and henne led you to 3 losses to end the season and a 7-9 record, what is your point?

9-4 turend into 9-6 and they were essentially done.

NO crushed Seattle in the reg season too, how did the rematch go?

NE in 2008 beat one playoff bound team- the Miami Dolphins. In 2009 they beat NYJ(title game team) and Baltimore(div rd)- 2 real playoff teams and your #s are off. NE beat Den(8-8), Ten(8-8), NYJ(9-7), Bal(9-7), Atl(9-7). That's 5 .500 or better teams. 11-5 in 2008 was the equivalent of 8-8 in 2009.

Buf had them beat, did Buf beat them? In 2003 Buf beat them 31-0 then finished 6-10 while NE won the SB- did that take away from NE's success? teams play close games, the Giants lost 7 of them and nearly lost to Buf and Miami.

NE went from 16-0 w/ Brady to 10-5 w/o him starting the next year. They tied for the div lead w/o Brady- you don't think Brady gets them AT LEAST one more win? all they needed was one win to win the division and keep Miami at home. Even if Miami splits w/ NE w/ Brady NE was winning at least one more game that year and winning the division.

I don't think it, I know the '09 Jets were better b/c they proved it.

[Vaark]

LMAO@dogpaddling in a river in Egypt without a floatation device. 1998 Team was good, 2010, although sneaking in the backdoor was pretty good; beyond that the 08 Ravens would put 11 in the box and make any version of Penny look like dog**** 11 out of every 10 times.

The 09 team proved nothing: they were lucky to be 7-7 before 2 teams placed more value on keeping their starters healthy then needless additional wins. They were the recipient of more charity than Warren Buffett contributes to African developing countries. They faced the worst team in the playoffs in 10 years who were about 7 games beyond their peak and fading fast and then the biggest choking kicker and HC in the league. Proves absolutely nothing other than they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Even if they hadn't choked at home against Atlanta, they still were a crap team. That just clinched it. You can disagree all you want but that scheduling was so disgracefully egregious that the league immediately changed their policy as a result. It is what it is despite your attempts at feel good homeristic spin-worthy revisionist history.

[The New Guy]

and henne led you to 3 losses to end the season and a 7-9 record, what is your point?

The point is they might have beat them had Henne played the whole game. They beat the Jets twice and NE which was better than Pitt that year.

9-4 turend into 9-6 and they were essentially done.

NO crushed Seattle in the reg season too, how did the rematch go?

7-9 is just as good as 10-6. And when that 7-9 team loses to that 10-6 team 41-7, you are still just as good as the 7-9 team. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Are you saying Seattle was better than NO as well?
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NE in 2008 beat one playoff bound team- the Miami Dolphins. In 2009 they beat NYJ(title game team) and Baltimore(div rd)- 2 real playoff teams and your #s are off. NE beat Den(8-8), Ten(8-8), NYJ(9-7), Bal(9-7), Atl(9-7). That's 5 .500 or better teams. 11-5 in 2008 was the equivalent of 8-8 in 2009.

No, my #'s are correct. NE did not beat Den that year. They beat 4 .500 teams or better, just like they did in 08 without Brady.

NE went from 16-0 w/ Brady to 10-5 w/o him starting the next year. They tied for the div lead w/o Brady- you don't think Brady gets them AT LEAST one more win? all they needed was one win to win the division and keep Miami at home. Even if Miami splits w/ NE w/ Brady NE was winning at least one more game that year and winning the division.

No, I honestly don't think they would have won more than 11 games. They still would have split with the Dolphins and Jets. Indy had won the last 2 out of 3 with Brady at QB, Pitt was the Super Bowl Champs that year, and the Chargers always play them tough in SD.

The 08 Pats without Brady won 4 games against teams that were .500 or better and finished with an 11-5 record. The 09 PAts with Brady won 4 games against teams that were .500 or better and only won 10 games. Again, I will take the team in my division that wins less games regardless of who the QB is.

I don't think it, I know the '09 Jets were better b/c they proved it.

You know it just like you know the sideline rule is separate, it wasn't a catch, it wasn't a safety ect..... Your bias for the Jets and against other teams blind you from reality.

Being let into the playoffs and then beating a dead team walking and then an overrated SD team who missed 3 FGs in a 3 point loss is hardly proving anything.