New Photo Shows Zimmerman's Bloody Head Injuries

[phinfan3411]

Oh, and i also got the prosecutor going for reelection from him, again, he knows a little more than i, and this was on MSNBC by the way.

Are there any legal experts that seem to think they have a good chance of conviction?

That is what i am arguing in this instance, i did not go for the racism hook, and will never know the true story, whether Zimmerman really feared for his life, so i go with the evidence so far, and to me that evidence does not show much.

[LANGER72]

Until I saw those pictures I had no opinion as to the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman. Now I am leaning toward his innocence.
This case seems pretty clear...open and shut.

[phins_4_ever]

No, i have not heard of Mary Cutcher.

It is ironic that with all this search for evidence in this forum that Mary Clutcher fell through the cracks.

She is one of 6 witnesses on file with the Sanford Police Department. The police only took a couple of sentences from her. She came into the public light 10 days later after the police did not contact her since her story did not fall inline with the Zimmerman-picture which was painted in by the SPD. She was on a couple of new stations including Dateline.

Here is one of the videos of her


Point is: at this point none of us has any clue. But what this shooting deserves is a proper investigation. That was not done at the beginning and only that's why this case actually gained national attention.

The evidence I am looking for when it comes to a trial is not so much 'eye witness' statements. Even that John dude is a flaky eye witness at best. I am looking for ballistics and stuff. I assume an autopsy was done as well. So there will be an entrance wound and possible an exit wound. Interesting will be how the bullet traveled. The clothing should also have some kind of residue since the shot was fired at such a close range. The other thing I am looking for is if Zimmerman was in a struggle for his life how did he get his gone out and lifted his arm all the way to the chest and fired. If I get my head "pounded like a coconut" I pull the trigger as soon as I have my gun. I could care less if I hit the stomach or leg. This is all evidence we do not have but which maybe the prosecutor has.
As much as the pro-Zimmerman crowd likes to say that the 'others' don't work with facts and speculate I have a message: so do you. Eye witnesses are never a guarantee for the truth. Heck, people went to jail for years because of either mistaken identity by eye witnesses or right out false statements. There is a reason that there are more and more cases overturned which relied some years ago on eye witness statements: science.

[phinfan3411]

Ok, i know who she is, and as far as i know, isn't she the one the police said changed her story?

Now if she is, we have to figure out who is telling the truth, her or the police, correct?

I am the last person to come to the defense of the cops, where i grew up, the police are not held in the highest esteem, and the best i can describe them is they are no different than your average citizen, as that's who they are made up of.

You then have to convince me that the police had any interest in covering for Zimmerman, if he was a cop, or a relative...you have me convinced, because that is EXACTLY what they do, they cover for each other.

The reality is just the opposite though, Zimmerman led protests against them, and called for the discipline/ and or firing of actual cops investigating his case, so imo they would do NOTHING to help him.

This bitch gave in to public pressure, probably just like the other witness(es) will do.

I have listened to ALL the witnesses, including the news report that stated the lead detective played the 911 tape for Trayvon's dad, and he said it was not his son....nobody repeats that.

[Breed]

I am not sure why we have to have another thread on this with a bunch of speculations. The only facts we all have is the 911 tapes, Zimmerman with gun, a dead body and a couple of witnesses of which one already recanted that he/she couldnt tell for sure who was on top, another witness who was on the phone with Martin. In between that it is all speculation. None of us know what happened.

It is ironic that with all this search for evidence in this forum that Mary Clutcher fell through the cracks.
She is one of 6 witnesses on file with the Sanford Police Department. The police only took a couple of sentences from her. She came into the public light 10 days later after the police did not contact her since her story did not fall inline with the Zimmerman-picture which was painted in by the SPD. She was on a couple of new stations including Dateline.
Here is one of the videos of her . . .

That one witness (Cutcher) you’re referring to is the same person that the Police accused of having a conflicting story. I’ve seen several news clips featuring her. If her interviews are any indication, she has nothing to offer. In one account she recollects that she heard “whines”, she speculates that it was the kid “whining.” In other reports, she claims she heard “a cry for help.” Which is it? Furthermore, she claims: “I know it was Trayvon crying for help, because after the gunshot, the cries stopped.” Why should any investigator care what she thinks? It’s their job to piece together what happened, not hers. They should care about what she heard and what she saw. What she heard doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know. What she saw was what happened after the fact. Her recount of Zimmerman saying “call 911” doesn’t mean a whole lot either. Not if John’s (the key witness) testimony of the same described event means anything.

I got news. This is not Hollywood where two people beat each other up and don't have a scratch on them. Pounding someone's head like a coconut on the ground would lead most likely to a broken scull.

First off, Zimmerman’s head is likely a good deal heavier than a coconut. Secondly, a coconut can’t offer any resistance, a conscious human can. If Zimmerman had the cognitive ability to pull a gun, then he was aware enough to offer resistance (the force of Trayvon slamming Zimmerman’s head down met with Zimmerman’s resistance to it. . . Be it by stiffening his neck, and/or by pushing/sitting up with his stomach)to Trayvon grabbing his head and slamming it to the ground.

I can throw in another fact and speculate as well. The crime happened on a walk-way between townhouses. No car can drive there. So Zimmerman had to get there somehow. Which renders the speculation that he went back to his car and he was approached by Martin obsolete. He must have gotten out of his car at some point and get to where the shooting occurred.

Nobody is claiming Zimmerman never got out of his car. The fact that Zimmerman was following Trayvon at some point cannot be disputed. The part that is in dispute, however, is whether or not Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon against the request of the dispatcher. To this point, there is no hard evidence to suggest Zimmerman went against the dispatcher’s request.
Have you even seen the layout of the neighborhood? Have you seen where the mailboxes (where he parked) are located? Have you seen where the killing took place? Have you heard the 911 phone calls?

Here comes my speculation: what of Zimmerman approached Martin, drew his gun and Martin in self defense jumped on Zimmerman and Zimmerman then shot him?

That is downright laughable. There is absolutely no basis for such wild speculation. Why would Zimmerman simply pull his gun on Trayvon when he simply wanted to know what he was doing in the neighborhood? If it did happen the way you’re speculating, why wouldn’t Trayvon simply answer Zimmerman’s question in hopes of diffusing the situation? If Trayvon had any sense whatsoever, he’d know his chances at survival were much higher if he simply answered Zimmerman’s question. Furthermore, how do you account for the minute or so where somebody is crying for help?

We all can speculate till the next Superbowl but it is a fact that nobody knows exactly what happened except two people and one is dead.

Congratulations. You finally managed to post a fact . . . oh wait. You follow by posting this:

For a State's attorney to file Murder 2 she must have some significant evidence which we are not privileged to. I highly doubt that the prosecution would run into such an Harakiri trial not having any evidence at all.

Have you read the affidavit? Did you watch the Bail Hearing?

Point is: at this point none of us has any clue. But what this shooting deserves is a proper investigation. That was not done at the beginning and only that's why this case actually gained national attention.
The evidence I am looking for when it comes to a trial is not so much 'eye witness' statements. Even that John dude is a flaky eye witness at best.

What do you base this on? If there is one witness that has any credibility, it is “John.” His story hasn’t changed. He lives right across from where the shooting took place and he witnessed the fight first-hand.

I am looking for ballistics and stuff. I assume an autopsy was done as well. So there will be an entrance wound and possible an exit wound. Interesting will be how the bullet traveled. The clothing should also have some kind of residue since the shot was fired at such a close range.

I would also like to see the results of the physical evidence. One would think, if the physical evidence wasn’t strong in Zimmerman’s favor to begin with, this would’ve never been a story.

The other thing I am looking for is if Zimmerman was in a struggle for his life how did he get his gone out and lifted his arm all the way to the chest and fired.

Forget the kickback (of the gun), why would he take the extra effort to extend or lift his arm in the first place? If the gun was in his holster, all he would have to do is pullout his gun and tilt his wrist upwards . . . then fire.

If I get my head "pounded like a coconut" I pull the trigger as soon as I have my gun. I could care less if I hit the stomach or leg. This is all evidence we do not have but which maybe the prosecutor has.

And it's evidence the Sanford Police Department likely had . . .

For the self-defense argument: It is speculated that Martin 'attacked' Zimmerman and he shot in self defense. It is also speculated that Martin approached Zimmerman, attacked him and pounded his head like a coconut on the asphalt.

As much as the pro-Zimmerman crowd likes to say that the 'others' don't work with facts and speculate I have a message: so do you. . .

That isn’t “speculation”, that is Zimmerman’s account of what happened. And to date, there is nothing made available to the general public that contradicts his account of what happened. The “pro-Zimmerman” side is simply saying that Zimmerman may actually be telling the truth. It’s the other side that’s throwing the wild speculation out there.

[Locke]

All this confirms is that there was a struggle at some point, it doesn't say anything about his innocence or guilt...

[Breed]

All this confirms is that there was a struggle at some point, it doesn't say anything about his innocence or guilt...

It gives more credibility to Zimmerman's story. Mainly, that there was a point in the fight when Trayvon was slamming his head against the ground. I look forward to the medical reports being released. Hopefully it confirms he had welts on his head.

[LANGER72]

All this confirms is that there was a struggle at some point, it doesn't say anything about his innocence or guilt...

True, only the jury will decide.
Still, it does reinforce his version of the story and witness testimony...that Trayvon was the aggressively pounding his head onto the concrete side walk before he was shot. Frankly, the wounds on the back of his head are worse than I expected. In addition to those wounds was the busted lip and the broken nose. Martin was kicking his azz. It all fit in the sequence of events in the moments leading up to the shooting. Any reasonable person, armed with a CCP / pistol, getting their head pounded with fists and slammed into the ground would have done the same...it is self defense.

[Locke]

It reinforces his story, yes, but it doesn't confirm it. Any competent liar is going to have an explanation for every detail in a scenario. Why some of you are taking Zimmerman's story as gospel is beyond me. The guy was always going to tell a story that shines the best possible light on himself...

[Breed]

It reinforces his story, yes, but it doesn't confirm it. Any competent liar is going to have an explanation for every detail in a scenario. Why some of you are taking Zimmerman's story as gospel is beyond me. The guy was always going to tell a story that shines the best possible light on himself...

Who's taking his story as gospel? I'm simply stating that his story "may" be true. There are some, and they know who they are, that claim Zimmerman's story is absolute bull****.