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Statler Waldorf
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So you first claim dinosaurs can’t coexist with people because there are no stories of them coexisting with people and then when I point to numerous stories of large reptiles coexisting and terrorizing people you call it crazy? It’s awfully convenient how you based your whole view of the earth’s history on such circular reasoning; unfortunately it’s just not rational to do so.
Of course, soft tissue being found in dinosaur fossils IS evidence they coexisted with people since soft tissue cannot survive for longer than a few thousand years. Although I’ll give you one thing, Brontosaurus never coexisted with people considering Brontosaurus never existed at all (Brontosaurus was an erroneous skeleton where a Camarasaurus head was mistakenly placed on an Apatosaurus body). To think I have been called the ignorant and crazy one but then you guys make such mistakes as this? Give me a break.
Did you even read my post? There are numerous stories of large reptiles living near and even terrorizing people, the historian/explorer Marco Polo documented seeing such creatures in China. Several creatures are even described in the Bible, so people did write them down, they just didn’t use the word dinosaur because it wasn’t invented yet.
Logically it is “good enough”; you claiming it is not good enough doesn’t prove anything because the logical merit of an argument isn’t measured by whether or not it persuades somebody.
I never said it was true because it was written down, I said it was true because God HAS to do those things in order for us to know anything at all, and the only God who could have done those things is Yahweh because He is the only God with those characteristics who has revealed Himself to us. An appeal to any other god with those same characteristics who has not revealed Himself to us is a fallacious argument from silence, so that’s not allowed. However, you’re wasting your time since you are a naturalist, so defend your own position not some other religion’s position.
Wait, are you really saying that no soft tissue has been found?
Get with the times man, they’ve been finding soft tissue for years now…
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I am the un-educated one? That’s downright laughable considering that one of you didn’t know Brontosaurus never existed, one of you didn’t know that soft tissue had been found in dinosaur fossils and apparently you didn’t know that “can not” is actually one word :-P You guys talk a good game, but when it comes down to actual evidence and logic you all are found to be extremely lacking. Why couldn’t dinosaurs coexist with people? You’re going to have to provide something to back that claim up because I provided plenty of evidence to suggest they in fact did coexist together.
What cracks me up is that when it comes to radiometric dating you don’t require any sort of empirical verification that it even works, but when it comes to believing that soft tissue decays rather quickly which is empirically supported you just waive it off because it would completely blow up your view that the earth is billions of years old. So in fact you’re the one shifting the goalposts, not me, I base my beliefs on logic and empirically verifiable dating methods, you base yours on theory and irrationality.
You’re aware of giant bi-pedal reptiles running around at those times that were not dinosaurs? This ought to be interesting, which ones?
Ahh, so now that biologist is a liar too, and all of those aboriginals were quite knowledgeable about dinosaurs that hadn’t been discovered yet? It’s all one giant conspiracy! :-P
However, the fact that mulitple radiometric methods come up with the same age of old rocks, and that these ages line up to other methods of dating such as tree rings, etc....well that just isn't good enough for Waldorf.
Not even close, the fact that you seemingly can’t prove the method works on rocks of known age makes me doubt that it magically works on rocks of unknown age. Tree rings? How do tree rings help verify radiometric dating’s results of millions and billions of years? You just don’t have any clue about how any of this stuff works do you? It’s obvious you’re just accepting its validity based on your blind faith in what scientists tell you, that’s rather sad.
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Resorting to fallacious appeals to ridicule when you can’t refute any of my points again I see. Could you imagine if Christians did this? Every time somebody made a logical or evidential point to support their position we just made fun of them or ridiculed them. You guys would have a cow, and yet it’s your first line of defense when you’re the ones being pushed around in a debate, it’s downright disappointing but not surprising at all. Let’s recap the debate so far…
Atheists’: You can’t prove God exists!
SW: *Provides a valid and sound syllogism proving God has to exist
Atheists: That doesn’t work!
SW: Why not?
Atheists: We don’t know, but it just doesn’t work! I bet you believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted huh?
SW: Sure
Atheists: what! How could you possibly believe that!? Where’s your evidence?
SW: Well since I already proved God exists I could just use scripture to support my position now.
Atheists: No! That’s not going to work!
SW: Why not?
Atheists: We don’t know but it just can’t! Do you have any evidence?
SW: Sure, soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones and it cannot last for millions of years.
Atheists: Soft tissue can last that long!
SW: Oh really? How?
Atheists: We don’t know! If dinosaurs did live with people there should be tons of stories about them and you don’t have any stories do you?
SW: Sure I do, there are thousands of stories about large reptiles terrorizing people from antiquity, the Bible has two such accounts, even modern groups in Australia and Africa have accounts of such animals.
Atheists: That’s not evidence!
SW: Why not?
Atheists: We don’t know! You’re crazy!
SW: Well you sure got me on that one.
Here's more evidence I am sure you all will just ignore because it flies in the face of your old earth...
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Bipedal creature with a long tail etched by Native Americans on the wall of the Grand Canyon.
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Stone etching found on a 13th century temple wall in Cambodia, looks like a dinosaur to me.
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Carving's on the 16th century Bishop Bell's tomb, 200 years before the discovery of the first dinosaur fossils.
More firsthand encounters that you can ignore!
In his published writings, Ulysses Aldrovandus, an Italian physician and naturalists described the encounter a man had with a 10 foot tall reptilian creature on May 13th, 1572 in Italy.
Writings from the 10th century document an Irishman’s encounter with a creature whose description matches that of a stegosaurus.
In the 16th century the European scientific and historical document entitled Historia Animalium describes several creatures which fit the description of dinosaurs as still living at the time.
The town of Nerluc in the Southern region of France reported being terrorized by a beast they called the “Tarasque”; it was plated with armored scales and plates and was 20-25 feet in length. The creature roamed their fields and vineyards killing livestock and even a couple herdsmen.
In 1572 a large reptilian creature was reported to inhabit the area known as Lapland in Scandinavia.
On November 30, 1222- London was terrorized by several flying reptiles.
Henham, Englad- in 1669 a 10 foot long reptilian creature was spotted numerous times roaming just outside of the city for several months.
In the 12th century in Ireland, Tristan of Lyonesse killed a large bipedal reptile.
In 13th century France a large reptilian creature called “Drac” terrorized two different towns; one of them is now named Draguignan after the creature.
In Drachenfels, Germany a large reptilian creature was described as actually killing and eating several young women in the 12th century.
Christopher Scharer who was the Prefect of the canton of Solothurn in present-day Switzerland reported a winged lizard that was spotted several times in 1619, and a hunter’s encounter with a large scaled reptile in 1654.
In Italy the Historia Naturalis written by Pliny the Elder reported that a large reptilian bipedal creature was killed on Vatican Hill during the reign of the Emperor Claudius, the reptile’s stomach when cut open contained the body of a child.
In Kiev, Ukraine in the 11th century a large reptilian creature called Gorynych that had terrorized the area for years was killed by a local hero named Dobrynja.
In 793 numerous monks who inhabited the island of Lindisfarne of the coast of England documented their observation of dozens of flying reptiles who had scales of varying colors.
Alexander the Great and his army were reported to kill several large reptiles in India, and described the local Indians as worshipping large hissing bipedal reptiles who inhabited the local caves.
The historian Aelian's describes in his work entitled De Natura Auimalium that in the region known as Phrygia large ferocious bipedal reptiles measure up to 10 paces in length (30 feet).
In 700 Cracus killed an enormous bipedal reptile in present day Poland.
The Roman historian Livy describes an encounter between the Roman Army lead by General Regulus in Africa, "After many of the soldiers had been seized in its mouth, and many more crushed by the folds of its tail; its hide being too thick for javelins and darts the creature was at last attacked by military engines and crushed by repeated blows from heavy stones."'
The Roman historian Pliny describes hunters luring a large reptile out of a cave and then killing it. He also describes there being violent encounters between large reptiles and Elephants in Africa and India.
St. George was documented to kill large reptiles in Germany, England, and Northern Africa.
China anointed its first dragon feeders in 1611, a position that was highly honored and well paid (why pay someone to feed a creature that supposedly doesn’t exist?).
The Chinese lord Szu-ma Niu described China being overrun with large reptilian creatures during the Chou Dynasty ( 481 Be)
The Chinese Emperor Hwo was known for enjoying soup made from the flesh of dragons that had been found dead near his kingdom.
The Orient is known for selling “dragon bones” for thousands of years, once dinosaur bones were discovered in the 19th century scientists realized that they were identical to the large bones sold by those in the Orient. If the bones of “dragons” ended up being dinosaur bones then why can’t the stories of “dragons” also be dinosaurs?
In 1977 a 32 foot long and 4,000 lbs. decaying creature was caught in a net by a Japanese trawler off the coast of New Zealand. Tissue samples were collected and tested at the National Science Museum of Japan, it was concluded the samples were not from any known living creature, the institute concluded that the animal must have been a recently living Plesiosaur. The scientist who tested the tissue samples was quoted as saying, “It seems that these animals are not extinct after all. It's impossible for only one to have survived. There must be a group." The discovery won the award for “Science Discovery of the Year” in Japan.
In 1981, University of Chicago Professors Roy Mackal and James Powell confirmed through their studies in the jungles in the Congo that a large Diplodocus-like sauropodian is still living.
In 1980 a local described seeing a large creature in the waters near Lake Tele, Africa. When shown different pictures of various creatures currently living and extinct he identified the creature as a Sauropod, he described the creature as four times the size of an Elephant and having a “snake-like” head that was 6-8 feet in length.
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