Jeff Ireland's Fate...(POLL)

[Strangeworld]

All these moves make sense to me. If we were winning Gaffney sticks but he would have helped us already if that was the case. This team was getting retooled from the get go at the beginning of this year and Ireland has gotten us in excellent shape with tons of money for free agency along with a number of draft picks. Now you may want him gone and blame him all you want so what. Take off the rose colored glasses you just do not change out the entire staff with a rookie head coach a offensive coordinator who was just recently fired from the college ranks, draft that same offensive coordinators rookie QB that could "not" save his job in college and expect sucess. Add in changing out the entire offensive and defensive schemes in the same year and it should be a recipie for disaster. Early in the year Philbin and RT looked like bad moves to me and I blamed Ireland for both of them and thought he should be fired. I sat back, pretty amazed to see do so well early in the season and noticed that the posters screaming for Irelands head go silent and now they are back again because are loosing of course.
These same players that were surprising us early in the season are now the garbage players that Ireland drafted. They are right Ireland drafted them right on with that observation but the rest of the logic that I keep reading just stinks.

We win or loose based on the coaching as much or more that the talent. The Shula years proved that. Shula evolved his coaching to fit his talent he had at the time and offered franchise stability which is big in building a team and while he may have had some talented positons his teams were not that talented. Answer me why a reciever we drafted last year with speed that we cut this year caught over a 100 yards against us with the Jets? Why was he one of the first cuts at a positon of no talent on our team but contributes on another. It is called coaching. The other observation of posts that amaze me is the logic or ill logic of just blaming Ireland for all the bad picks he made when he was a rooke GM working under a legend and veteran VP of the phins in Parcells and then having the audacity to turn around and try and give all the credit for the good moves in this years draft to a first time rookie head coach and his offensive coordinator just fired because he could not win enough games in college.


Yea go ahead fire Ireland, then take a step back and you will still see we have other issues like having a offensive coordinator who runs such a complicated offense that it takes a entire NFL season for even veteran NFL players to catch on.


You might want to disagree with me on the coaching thing but our stengths on the team currently are ST and DL both are coached from hold overs from Sporano. Get the right coach he will find his players and the wins will come guys. Fire Ireland but the problem still runs deeper and hopefully we don't replace him with a worse product which is greated that 50/50 IMO.


Ask yourself after looking at our draft and college free agents if this is not the best we have had in the past 5 years. Look at all those draft picks in next years draft along with our FA pool and ask yourself if we are not in better shape than ever. You can still say you do not trust Ireland but he signed off on all of the above situation and any comments otherwise are just speculation.

Translation = Jeff Ireland rocks!

[Valandui]

Jason La Canfora reported that Bill Polian wants back in. That's the good news. The bad news is La Canfora speculated (it sounded like speculation, not necessarily a confirmed report) that his son Chris Polian would again be a package deal with his dad. That's a deal breaker for me.

However, if Bill were willing to take on the job without his son, I would certainly consider it. The guy builds winning franchises.

Another combination I've thought about would be hiring a Russ Ball as Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations (much like Ted Thompson's current role in Green Bay) and then hiring Tom Heckert, Jr. as Director of Football Personnel underneath him (which would be the equivalent of John Dorsey's current role in Green Bay, which used to be Reggie McKenzie's role before he left for Oakland to be GM).

Agreed. I don't want Chris Polian anywhere near this team.

[Zounds]

Agreed. I don't want Chris Polian anywhere near this team.

I dont want his father anywhere near this team either.

[Zounds]

Another combination I've thought about would be hiring a Russ Ball as Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations (much like Ted Thompson's current role in Green Bay) and then hiring Tom Heckert, Jr. as Director of Football Personnel underneath him (which would be the equivalent of John Dorsey's current role in Green Bay, which used to be Reggie McKenzie's role before he left for Oakland to be GM).

Russ Ball is an administrative guy, not a personnel guy. He's never had experience drafting, scouting, or recruiting, so I definitley wouldn't ofeer him a GM role. As for Heckert, he is currently the GM for the Browns, so if we offered him a Director position, it would be demotion unless he gets fired at the end of the season (which appears likely).

[phintim]

Translation = Jeff Ireland rocks!

No I can go along with Ireland getting fired. I just want to be very careful what we wish for and not just change for chainging sake that I sense from many posters. Furthermore the logic many posters use to only want to give Ireland credit for only they want him to have credit for is just backwards. They keep posting that Ireland is responsible for all the personell moves they do not like under his former mentor, who was also the guy who got him his current GM job (Bill Parcells) but now that Philbin is on board a person that Ireland has no real allegiance to that it is Philbin who should get credit for all the sucess we have had this year.
You would certainly have to think that a guy that holds your job in his hands as VP of the phins that Bill Parcells was plus also had been a mentor for several years of Ireland prior to arriving at Miami would hold much more sway over the personell moves that Ireland made than a newbie assiatant rookie NFL coach that Ireland had never met before.

What I will agree on is that Ireland signs off on all moves so he gets credit for the good and bad. IMO now that Parcells has stepped away along with Tony Sporano we are seeing a real Jeff Ireland body of work much more than we have in the past. You have to ask the question are the personell moves better this year than in the past.


My point about coaching was that Shula still won with inferior talent but he did not win enough long enough to keep his job and with a better GM he might have. Of cousrse since running Shula out of town just to run him out of town there has been no improvement it has gotten worse. The same mind set about forcing Shula out is now going on about Ireland lets just change to change.

[ckparrothead]

Russ Ball is an administrative guy, not a personnel guy. He's never had experience drafting, scouting, or recruiting, so I definitley wouldn't ofeer him a GM role. As for Heckert, he is currently the GM for the Browns, so if we offered him a Director position, it would be demotion unless he gets fired at the end of the season (which appears likely).

That's exactly what I was baking into that speculation. I'm pretty sure Heckert is fired this off season and once he is, I don't think he's going to immediately have another GM job offered to him. I think he'll have to take a step down.

As for Russ Ball, he's actually been very involved in the personnel evaluation side of things if you talk to people close to the situation in Green Bay. There are a lot of General Managers that come from the financial side of the business. Mickey Loomis is one. Martin Mayhew is another. Howie Roseman is another. Mike Tannenbaum. I believe Eddie Jones the guy who was Miami's GM for a long time had more of a financial background. It's a myth that your General Manager has to come from the scouting department, just like it's a myth that your Head Coach has to come from offensive or defensive coordinator. Omar Khan is a name that is continually brought up for GM jobs and he's got more of a financial background as well.

[Nublar7]

I guess Ireland is definitely going to get fired now. Omar Kelly just went on record saying that Ireland will be be back for the 2013 season "whether you like it or not".

[ChambersWI]

That's exactly what I was baking into that speculation. I'm pretty sure Heckert is fired this off season and once he is, I don't think he's going to immediately have another GM job offered to him. I think he'll have to take a step down.

As for Russ Ball, he's actually been very involved in the personnel evaluation side of things if you talk to people close to the situation in Green Bay. There are a lot of General Managers that come from the financial side of the business. Mickey Loomis is one. Martin Mayhew is another. Howie Roseman is another. Mike Tannenbaum. I believe Eddie Jones the guy who was Miami's GM for a long time had more of a financial background. It's a myth that your General Manager has to come from the scouting department, just like it's a myth that your Head Coach has to come from offensive or defensive coordinator. Omar Khan is a name that is continually brought up for GM jobs and he's got more of a financial background as well.

If Ireland is fired, you'll see me continuously hyping up Khan. I mentioned before, Khan is the guy Bill Cowher has told every team that has approached him about being a HC that if he were to accept their job, he wanted Omar as his GM.

I've actually seen more administrative guys be better GMs not just in the NFL, but in baseball and the NBA as well. Mayhew just took the simple concept of drafting the best player available no matter what to heart.

[OyeDale305]

we have a lot of picks for next season.. ireland better not even touch them

[phintim]

we have a lot of picks for next season.. ireland better not even touch them

Too late he already has no matter who picks em.
Soo you hated last years draft?