Michigan set to become Right To Work State

[MoFinz]

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Only good can come from this. Especially for that corrupt political cesspool that is Detroit

[Locke]

I disagree. I don't think this is going to work out well at all. The last of our manufacturing jobs are protected via unions. Without them, they'd all already be overseas. What this is going to do is force out these union guys making a decent wage and getting good benefits, and allow these companies to hire less-skilled workers at much less the cost. This wouldn't be bad if it meant that the prices of their products were going to come down too, but we know that's not going to happen. All this will do is effectively increase the profit margin. Corporate greed at it's finest...

[jared81]

I disagree. I don't think this is going to work out well at all. The last of our manufacturing jobs are protected via unions. Without them, they'd all already be overseas. What this is going to do is force out these union guys making a decent wage and getting good benefits, and allow these companies to hire less-skilled workers at much less the cost. This wouldn't be bad if it meant that the prices of their products were going to come down too, but we know that's not going to happen. All this will do is effectively increase the profit margin. Corporate greed at it's finest...

all this does is allow employees the OPTION to not have to be in a union. unions are important (even though i disagree with their tactics of intimidation and politics), but people shouldnt have to be part of a union. as a conservative person, why would i want to be forced to be in a union, if i know they are going to turn around and give my money to causes i dont support? this just makes unions more accountable with who they support and more careful with their dues.

also, this is very telling of the times we are in. one month ago you would of thought the republican party was dead after being bitch slapped in the election. here we are a month later and the REPUBLICAN governor and house in michigan (one of the biggest union supporting states) is going to put an end to much of the teeth unions have. this just proves that the country is far more conservative than the pundits would have you believe.

[Valandui]

I disagree. I don't think this is going to work out well at all. The last of our manufacturing jobs are protected via unions. Without them, they'd all already be overseas. What this is going to do is force out these union guys making a decent wage and getting good benefits, and allow these companies to hire less-skilled workers at much less the cost. This wouldn't be bad if it meant that the prices of their products were going to come down too, but we know that's not going to happen. All this will do is effectively increase the profit margin. Corporate greed at it's finest...

I disagree. Going RTW isn't going to force unions to close down, but union membership shouldn't be required to have a job in the first place. I agree that they most likely won't come down in prices on their products (although Ford has actually adapted well in this situation), but the union stranglehold on that state is a big part of why they are in the mess they're in.

[MoFinz]

I disagree. I don't think this is going to work out well at all. The last of our manufacturing jobs are protected via unions. Without them, they'd all already be overseas. What this is going to do is force out these union guys making a decent wage and getting good benefits, and allow these companies to hire less-skilled workers at much less the cost. This wouldn't be bad if it meant that the prices of their products were going to come down too, but we know that's not going to happen. All this will do is effectively increase the profit margin. Corporate greed at it's finest...

Well, using your hypothesis, quality will have to suffer as the workforce will be flooded with inferior workers, so sales will suffer and profits will suffer.

All this law does is say that if you don't want to be in a union, you don't have to be. As it stands, if you don't want to serve the union bosses, you don't work. Now, you open the work force to people previously denied opportunities. There can still be unions, but now they can't blackball someone out of a living.

I think the people of Michigan will find out what the people in Virginia and the other 23 right to work states have found out. More businesses will come to your state to do business and more people will be employed and your social programs like welfare and food stamps wont be bursting at the seams with the un and under employed.


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[Locke]

Well, using your hypothesis, quality will have to suffer as the workforce will be flooded with inferior workers, so sales will suffer and profits will suffer.

All this law does is say that if you don't want to be in a union, you don't have to be. As it stands, if you don't want to serve the union bosses, you don't work. Now, you open the work force to people previously denied opportunities. There can still be unions, but now they can't blackball someone out of a living.

I think the people of Michigan will find out what the people in Virginia and the other 23 right to work states have found out. More businesses will come to your state to do business and more people will be employed and your social programs like welfare and food stamps wont be bursting at the seams with the un and under employed.


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So now why would anyone join a union when they can reap the benefits of their work without having to be a member? Or are employers going to pay union employees a different rate and offer a different benefits package than non-union employees? Employers are sure as hell not going to differentiate between employees, so what this pretty much does is weaken unions. That was the sole purpose of this bill.

Your chart is misleading because it doesn't matter how many new businesses come in if they are paying their workers crap wages and offering a benefits package that does nothing for them. Those businesses move to right-to-work states BECAUSE they don't have to worry about unions giving them push back for their wages and employee treatment. There is no way around it, this bill is crap and it was yet another instance of big business screwing over their employees. It's depressing how far this country has fallen...

[jared81]

So now why would anyone join a union when they can reap the benefits of their work without having to be a member? Or are employers going to pay union employees a different rate and offer a different benefits package than non-union employees? Employers are sure as hell not going to differentiate between employees, so what this pretty much does is weaken unions. That was the sole purpose of this bill.

Your chart is misleading because it doesn't matter how many new businesses come in if they are paying their workers crap wages and offering a benefits package that does nothing for them. Those businesses move to right-to-work states BECAUSE they don't have to worry about unions giving them push back for their wages and employee treatment. There is no way around it, this bill is crap and it was yet another instance of big business screwing over their employees. It's depressing how far this country has fallen...

if employees feel that the union is helping them they would be more than will to pay the dues. people arent as stupid as you may think. if i am working at a steel mill and notice my wages getting more and treatment going down, i would want to unionize. however if i notice the union not doing anything to help me and dues contining to rise. i want to choice to tell them to piss off.

liberals love affair with unions is just like the conservative love affair with the "good ole days". it always seems better than it really was.

[Locke]

if employees feel that the union is helping them they would be more than will to pay the dues. people arent as stupid as you may think. if i am working at a steel mill and notice my wages getting more and treatment going down, i would want to unionize. however if i notice the union not doing anything to help me and dues contining to rise. i want to choice to tell them to piss off.

liberals love affair with unions is just like the conservative love affair with the "good ole days". it always seems better than it really was.

That's great in theory, but nothing in the existing right-to-work states supports that notion. Those states have weak unions and some of the lowest working wages in the country. In Arizona, for example, people who begin organizing tend to get the Wal-Mart treatment: they all just get fired and new workers get brought in. If that wasn't the case, I'd have zero issues with this right-to-work stuff. But, it's just a round-about way to union-bust. Maybe even not that round-about, since most everyone knows the real goal...

[TheWalrus]

if employees feel that the union is helping them they would be more than will to pay the dues. people arent as stupid as you may think. if i am working at a steel mill and notice my wages getting more and treatment going down, i would want to unionize. however if i notice the union not doing anything to help me and dues contining to rise. i want to choice to tell them to piss off.

liberals love affair with unions is just like the conservative love affair with the "good ole days". it always seems better than it really was.

Why would you join the union if you're reaping the benefits of their negotiations without having to pay for it, though?

Real wages and treatment have gone down, unquestionably. And, as I said before, not coincidentally with the decrease in the influence of unions.


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Right to Work has nothing to do with choice and everything to do with helping businesses increase the margin reflected in that chart.

[TheWalrus]

Unions are a natural by product of a capitalist system. If you're going to engender a society where everything is commoditized, then the worker will eventually see their own skills and labor as a commodity and look for the best leverage points to maximize their wages, or personal profit if you will.

It seems contradictory to me for laizze faire types to bemoan the influence of unions when all unions are doing is using the same strategies as those who employ them... strategies those laizze fair types endorse with a shrug and a "what can you do? It's capitalism."

Like Voter ID laws, which sound great in theory but in practice have a very different goal, the Right to Work movement is really only a tool to break the influence of unions and thus make wages and working conditions worse. I completely understand why businesses want it, but the workers who endorse it strike me mainly as a very scared and weak group of people, mostly without useful skills, who thanks to the direct efforts of their employers have come to see themselves in direct competition with workers in Mexico and China rather than having rights and power of their own. The dynamic is really not unlike a woman who sees herself as so unattractive she'll grovel at the feet of a man who beats her.

Unions have been a great boon to the people of this country and all workers, whether unionized or not, have benefited from their efforts. It's not an accident that the decrease of their influence has coincided exactly with the drop in wages adjusted for inflation.